Can Gardai ask you where you're going?

MagicSean · 14-05-2011 12:29pm

JohnathanM wrote: »

Hang on a second. You are old enough to have watched the Gardai assist in the institutionalisation of paedophilia and political corruption, and would still have been happy to join them? Proud and true is no reflection of the service as a whole, and the suggestion that people lacking confidence in them are automatically a criminal element is a poor shill gambit.

Can you point me to one Garda who is still in the job who was involved in that?

JohnathanM · 14-05-2011 12:54pm

Seanbeag1 wrote: »

Can you point me to one Garda who is still in the job who was involved in that?

What's the relevance, here? A man makes the point in defence of the Gardai that they are "proud and true" and he would have been happy to join them. The counter-point is that during his working life, they were not. Given that Gardai were still being criticised for ignoring claims made against priests in the 1990s, I think consideration of their complicity is still useful.

MagicSean · 14-05-2011 1:35pm

JohnathanM wrote: »

What's the relevance, here? A man makes the point in defence of the Gardai that they are "proud and true" and he would have been happy to join them. The counter-point is that during his working life, they were not. Given that Gardai were still being criticised for ignoring claims made against priests in the 1990s, I think consideration of their complicity is still useful.

The relevance is that it is a different organisation now. Massive turnover in staff. Big policy and procedural overhauls. New accountability and disciplinary measures supported by legislation.

Even back then the Gardaí were a good force. They did things differently but well in line with the ways of the country at the time. Remember, it wasn't just Gardaí that ignored complaints. It was parents too. Nobody believed religious representatives could behave in this way.

JohnathanM · 14-05-2011 1:54pm

Seanbeag1 wrote: »

The relevance is that it is a different organisation now. Massive turnover in staff. Big policy and procedural overhauls. New accountability and disciplinary measures supported by legislation.

Even back then the Gardaí were a good force. They did things differently but well in line with the ways of the country at the time. Remember, it wasn't just Gardaí that ignored complaints. It was parents too. Nobody believed religious representatives could behave in this way.

None too convinced. I would expect garda from earlier times to be gone from attrition, rather than forcibly removed and prosecuted. I find it difficult to find details on this, so if you know of any I'd be interested. I also find it difficult to be impressed by this seemingly special place members of the Church were put in. The Gardai are there to enforce the law, not pander to interest groups and that is relevant at any point in time.

As for overhaul, Kathleen O’Toole made recommendations for reform only this year. In doing so she referenced Elliott's finding that complaints from a girl about clerical abuse given directly to the Gardai in 2005 were not appropriately handled.

Grass between the tracks · 14-05-2011 2:14pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73e5kMrOfMQ

Sums them up nicely.

tayto lover · 14-05-2011 2:15pm

JohnathanM wrote: »

Hang on a second. You are old enough to have watched the Gardai assist in the institutionalisation of paedophilia and political corruption, and would still have been happy to join them? Proud and true is no reflection of the service as a whole, and the suggestion that people lacking confidence in them are automatically a criminal element is a poor shill gambit.

How many ordinary people knew that was going on at the time or even believed much of it.? If you read some of the reports you will find that indeed many Garda officers did believe it and followed up on the complaints despite much pressure being put on them by people in higher positions many outside the Garda force. Another cheap shot by you.
You failed to mention the many Gardai who gave their lives in defence of the state and its people too conveniently i'd say as it does not suit your biased argument.

JohnathanM · 14-05-2011 2:43pm

tayto lover wrote: »

How many ordinary people knew that was going on at the time or even believed much of it.?

As your comment on willingness to serve was retrospective, you made it in full knowledge of what transpired.

tayto lover wrote: »

If you read some of the reports you will find that indeed many Garda officers did believe it and followed up on the complaints despite much pressure being put on them by people in higher positions many outside the Garda force.

I can appreciate the fortitude of some individual members to act in line with the law and moral decency, but the simple fact of the matter is that the Gardai as a service did not. Political pressure be damned; a point of the executive should be able to hold its own. If it cannot, it should be replaced and certainly not excused.

tayto lover wrote: »

Another cheap shot by you.
You failed to mention the many Gardai who gave their lives in defence of the state and its people too conveniently i'd say as it does not suit your biased argument.

That's what I would call a cheap shot; relying on the deaths of thirty-one people to distract from the argument and bolster your position.

tayto lover · 14-05-2011 3:23pm

JohnathanM wrote: »

As your comment on willingness to serve was retrospective, you made it in full knowledge of what transpired.

I can appreciate the fortitude of some individual members to act in line with the law and moral decency, but the simple fact of the matter is that the Gardai as a service did not. Political pressure be damned; a point of the executive should be able to hold its own. If it cannot, it should be replaced and certainly not excused.

That's what I would call a cheap shot; relying on the deaths of thirty-one people to distract from the argument and bolster your position.

Well now is that not what you did ? Or are you just picking and choosing the bits that suit you. I did let you accuse the entire Garda force as you would have liked to do. Be fair about it. If you have evidence of abuse you should inform the Ombudsman rather than come on here anonymously and blame everyone. Be brave.

JohnathanM · 14-05-2011 3:28pm

tayto lover wrote: »

Well now is that not what you did ? Or are you just picking and choosing the bits that suit you. I did let you accuse the entire Garda force as you would have liked to do. Be fair about it. If you have evidence of abuse you should inform the Ombudsman rather than come on here anonymously and blame everyone. Be brave.

I'm finding your comments to make increasingly less sense. You've gone from tarring those lacking confidence in the Gardai as "criminal element" and callous as to the death of other people, to... well, I actually don't know what.

What are you trying to say to me here, and on what basis?

tayto lover · 14-05-2011 3:31pm

JohnathanM wrote: »

I'm finding your comments to make increasingly less sense. You've gone from tarring those lacking confidence in the Gardai as "criminal element" and callous as to the death of other people, to... well, I actually don't know what.

What are you trying to say to me here, and on what basis?

Ok so now you want to try and berate me because i stood up to your Garda bias. You know well what i'm on about and you are the one not making sense. Grow up.

JohnathanM · 14-05-2011 3:34pm

tayto lover wrote: »

Ok so now you want to try and berate me because i stood up to your Garda bias. You know well what i'm on about and you are the one not making sense. Grow up.

Thanks for clearing that up for me.

end a eknny · 14-05-2011 8:00pm

JohnathanM wrote: »

Thanks for clearing that up for me.

dont expect any reasoned answers here, if you feel that the majorityof gardai are like most public servants and go to work and try and pass there day with as little hassle and effort as is humanly possible. then you will have the same people (mostly either gardai or their spouses) arguing that they are a highly intelligent, brave, effective hard working honest dilligent force and make claims that you are either a criminal or jealous and they will wheel out the old "you would be delighted to see them if you needed them (if you could find them and they could be arsed) only last week was talking to somebody in working in a local hotel who had to eject a group who where fighting. when they where outside they started to wreck the place. the gardai where rang 5 times in twenty minutes and where obviously annoyed at the nusiance and eventually told the staff not to ring again they where on their break in fairness to the gardai 2 of them landed a half an hour later when they had gone

JohnathanM · 14-05-2011 8:59pm

end a eknny wrote: »

...and make claims that you are either a criminal or jealous...

I've certainly noticed that some posters like to make this kind of implication. It's hilarious. The discussion equivalent of saying, "Yeah? Well... you smell funny!".

tayto lover · 14-05-2011 9:09pm

I'd say both of you do smell funny with your biased posts.
E Kenny i spoke to 5 people last week who had great service from the gardai. Hows that son ?
At least give us some verifiable posts and not your usual makey-uppy posts. I still believe they caught you with your trousers down ha ha.

end a eknny · 14-05-2011 9:28pm

tayto lover wrote: »

I'd say both of you do smell funny with your biased posts.
E Kenny i spoke to 5 people last week who had great service from the gardai. Hows that son ?
At least give us some verifiable posts and not your usual makey-uppy posts. I still believe they caught you with your trousers down ha ha.

what makky uppy posts where they. realistically i could write a book on the subject and most normal people who havent expierenced the gardai first hand wouldnt believe it unfortunately all true and just my expierence and as i have already said i am generally law abiding and have never been caught.

Esel · 14-05-2011 10:08pm

end a eknny wrote: »

. . . i am generally law abiding and have never been caught.

The implication being . . .

end a eknny · 14-05-2011 10:12pm

Esel wrote: »

The implication being . . .

could anybody say they never broke the law. safe to say in this country you would have to be very unlucky to get caught

Esel · 14-05-2011 10:33pm

end a eknny wrote: »

could anybody say they never broke the law.

You couldn't, anyway. The laws of grammar, that is.

It's not difficult to use punctuation keys and the SHIFT key occasionally (you can even use the CAPS LOCK key if holding two keys down simultaneously is difficult for you).

Seriously, you would get a lot more respect around here if you could make the effort.

A change of username would help too, but that would cost you €5 . . .

end a eknny · 14-05-2011 10:35pm

Esel wrote: »

You couldn't, anyway. The laws of grammar, that is.

It's not difficult to use punctuation keys and the SHIFT key occasionally (you can even use the CAPS LOCK key if holding two keys down simultaneously is difficult for you).

Seriously, you would get a lot more respect around here if you could make the effort.

A change of username would help too, but that would cost you €5 . . .

i am always amazed about how many people give a fcuk about spelling punctuation grammar etc. surely if the point is valid or not is the important thing

tayto lover · 15-05-2011 2:00pm

end a eknny wrote: »

i am always amazed about how many people give a fcuk about spelling punctuation grammar etc. surely if the point is valid or not is the important thing

Yes indeed but your posts are not valid because you are constantly generalizing.
Some of your criticisms might have truth in them but you accuse the entire Garda force so your points lose credence.

end a eknny · 15-05-2011 5:26pm

thats right i am generalising as i dont personally know them all but as the majority of them i have met are both dumb and useless and that is the perception i get about them from people all over the country and from all walks of life its safe to assume while they arent all useles dumbasses the majority unfortunatly are

Captain_Generic · 15-05-2011 5:28pm

end a eknny wrote: »

thats right i am generalising as i dont personally know them all but as the majority of them i have met are both dumb and useless and that is the perception i get about them from people all over the country and from all walks of life its safe to assume while they arent all useles dumbasses the majority unfortunatly are

*breaths in*

tayto lover · 15-05-2011 6:05pm

end a eknny wrote: »

thats right i am generalising as i dont personally know them all but as the majority of them i have met are both dumb and useless and that is the perception i get about them from people all over the country and from all walks of life its safe to assume while they arent all useles dumbasses the majority unfortunatly are

They're just like your posts then.

MagicSean · 15-05-2011 6:33pm

end a eknny wrote: »

thats right i am generalising as i dont personally know them all but as the majority of them i have met are both dumb and useless and that is the perception i get about them from people all over the country and from all walks of life its safe to assume while they arent all useles dumbasses the majority unfortunatly are

There's a reason the word assume contains the word ass.

end a eknny · 15-05-2011 7:33pm

Seanbeag1 wrote: »

There's a reason the word assume contains the word ass.

an i thought einstein was dead

tayto lover · 15-05-2011 8:58pm

End a kenny you must be mixing in very dicey company because the people i mix with respect the laws of the country and those who enforce it. In fact it is the duty of all of us to help enforce these same laws.

end a eknny · 15-05-2011 9:20pm

tayto lover wrote: »

End a kenny you must be mixing in very dicey company because the people i mix with respect the laws of the country and those who enforce it. In fact it is the duty of all of us to help enforce these same laws.

while i respect most of the laws and abide by most of the laws (anybody who says they never broke any laws or liars) but i have no faith in those who are employed to enforce them. thats goes from the goverment through the judiciary prison services and gardai

tayto lover · 15-05-2011 9:40pm

end a eknny wrote: »

while i respect most of the laws and abide by most of the laws (anybody who says they never broke any laws or liars) but i have no faith in those who are employed to enforce them. thats goes from the goverment through the judiciary prison services and gardai

Then i feel sorry for you going through life with such a chip. If i felt like that i would start a campaign to change things or i would emigrate. This country will never be perfect but i believe that the vast majority of people in any walk of life are decent people who do their best and this gives me great faith and confidence.

Break all ties · 15-05-2011 9:49pm

or i would emigrate

I did. I had enough of the gombeen republic that is Ireland. I was sick of all the cute hoorism.

Never looked back.

tayto lover · 15-05-2011 9:56pm

Break all ties wrote: »

I did. I had enough of the gombeen republic that is Ireland. I was sick of all the cute hoorism.

Never looked back.

Good man. You at least had the courage of your convictions.

Jimmy Garlic · 16-05-2011 3:40am

Break all ties wrote: »

I did. I had enough of the gombeen republic that is Ireland. I was sick of all the cute hoorism.

Never looked back.

So you went to Bulgaria instead??..I think that's ironic.

Our man in Havana · 16-05-2011 8:32am

How?

Mr. Manager · 16-05-2011 10:50am

One quick question here:

If I'm stopped by the Gardai and they ask me where I'm going, do I have to, by law, tell them?

It seems like such an invasion of privacy. I'm aware The Queen is coming and they want to take extra precautionary measures but in all seriousness, if you're going to have a go at her life, you're not going to tell the Gardai.

orourkeda · 16-05-2011 10:51am

Lose the h=attitude

chin_grin · 16-05-2011 10:52am

I hhhhhhhhhhhave hhhhhhhh-drink tak-hen.

Mr. Manager · 16-05-2011 10:53am

orourkeda wrote: »

Lose the h=attitude

Who ever said I had an attitude? I've no problem answering them, I just think it's an invasion of my privacy is all.

MagicSean · 16-05-2011 10:53am

Cereal Rapist wrote: »

One quick question here:

If I'm stopped by the Gardai and they ask me where I'm going, do I have to, by law, tell them?

It seems like such an invasion of privacy. I'm aware The Queen is coming and they want to take extra precautionary measures but in all seriousness, if you're going to have a go at her life, you're not going to tell the Gardai.

If you are stopped within the cordoned area then yes you do.

Oink · 16-05-2011 10:54am

.

prinz · 16-05-2011 10:54am

Cereal Rapist wrote: »

If I'm stopped by the Gardai and they ask me where I'm going, do I have to, by law, tell them?

The easiest option is to just say home/the shops/work. Be awkward about it and don't come back complaining that they asked you even more questions.

Mr. Manager · 16-05-2011 10:54am

Seanbeag1 wrote: »

If you are stopped within the cordoned area then yes you do.

And this is by law? (not arguing what you're saying, just asking)

Duggy747 · 16-05-2011 10:55am

Just say you're going home or some bullshìt.

Answer back to them with "I know my rights, etc" will only make the Garda go "Ah, so we have a master of dee law here, do we!?!" and they'll just make things worse for you.

orourkeda · 16-05-2011 10:55am

Cereal Rapist wrote: »

Who ever said I had an attitude? I've no problem answering them, I just think it's an invasion of my privacy is all.

Joke sorry

Korvanica · 16-05-2011 10:56am

OP Just turn around and run away for the laugh... They love the chase...

MagicSean · 16-05-2011 10:57am

Cereal Rapist wrote: »

And this is by law? (not arguing what you're saying, just asking)

Yes, under the public order act if you are within the cordon or trying to enter the cordoned area you have to have a valid reason to be there.

neilboard · 16-05-2011 10:57am

Just tell them 'my mammy told me not to talk to strangers'!

hidinginthebush · 16-05-2011 10:57am

Cereal Rapist wrote: »

One quick question here:

If I'm stopped by the Gardai and they ask me where I'm going, do I have to, by law, tell them?

It seems like such an invasion of privacy. I'm aware The Queen is coming and they want to take extra precautionary measures but in all seriousness, if you're going to have a go at her life, you're not going to tell the Gardai.

With a username like that, I think it's best the gardai keep tabs on you

[realises irony considering my own username]

prinz · 16-05-2011 10:58am

Start by identifying yourself using your boards username.

FatherLen · 16-05-2011 10:58am

i dont see what the big deal is just tell them, its not like they are going to put it on their blog.

kfallon · 16-05-2011 10:59am

Whatever you do don't say you are just on your way out for coffee or else they'll be on the walkie talkies straight away asking if the rest of the 'boyos' want a latte and you'll have some whopper of an order!!!

Captain Commie · 16-05-2011 10:59am

dont know if there is a legal requirement to answer, but do you really want to go 12 rounds with them over a simple question like that.

just answer it, if as you say you have nothing to hide then there shouldnt be an issue here, the issue arises when you have something to hide from them

Can Gardai ask you where you're going?

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