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Web developer/coder or investor needed

Nipaco

Hi all,
This is my first post so I hope I'm not breaking those rules and posting correctly.
Ill keep this to the point.
Setting up new online web company with high potential. I need either an investor or someone with the web building skills of a coder.
There is no up front payment, but substantial profit share for help in getting this up and running. Thanks

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[Deleted User]

Nipaco.....for now you need a Web Developer.
A Programmer is someone who develops software from the bottom up.....you don't need one of them.

Your website initially can be built by anyone who knows their way around Dreamweaver and PHP/MySQL.

The only tricky part is the e-commerce bit as depending on how you want to take payments, that can be tricky to set up.
You can go the all in way like paypal to take payments
or
You have to go to your bank and Set Up a Merchant Account.

Take it from me that unless you need very tricky features, your website is easier to set up initially than you think.

Also, who says you can't hire somebody with different skills later down the road if it makes money.

PCPhoto

Nipaco ... I'd be in a similar position, have sat on ideas/concepts for years afraid to tell people for fear that those with the money can develop it better/faster.

also I've tried getting quotes from companies and many of them want extortionate money and plenty of it up front - makes you feel like they don't believe the idea/concept or the person telling it, one particular idea that I have I can see slowly developing by other companies.

my main problem is that I work 6 or 7 days a week so don't have the time to dedicate to any of the ideas/plans.

I was planning on taking August and September off this year to try get something done - but so far since I announced August/Sept I wont be working - other people have asked me to help out with something they are working on or the GF wants to go on holidays, family members are giving birth, others are moving abroad... there are engagements, weddings and birthdays all popping up....seems like everyone wants to stop me doing these projects (I have 2/3 projects which will compliment each other ...like ebay/paypal does ...not a similar site)

Nipaco

Eirehotspur, I think you are bang on the money with that.

Pcphoto, let me tell you my story very quick, had saved up for this project and was just getting started. With my job I could force it all into 3 days and have the rest for the site. My daughter was born in Feb which was grand but my wife was diagnosed with cancer in May. So had to quit my job to stay home for two years and put everything on hold. Now I'm not putting this out there as a big sob story, I'm trying to give you some encouragement. There will always be something trying to break you, hold you back or challenge you. You have to say I'm either going to lie down, or I'm going to fight it and win. There is always, always a way.

[Deleted User]

Well personally speaking, I got some quiet similar things in common with both of you.

I have a few ideas but luckily I have the knowledge to be able to put my plans into action this year.
Initially ten years ago, I had a great idea....developed it and performed it and saw somebody else doing it the following year and making around 2k per performance from something inferior software-wise.

I have used my time over the years to teach myself web design and other tech stuff, I am no expert on anything but I know a good bit about most aspects of Web Development, Multimedia, Photography & Video.

We are moving into a time where a lot of us will have to make money ourselves instead of looking for the jobs that were there in the past.

Remember you don't need a website with bells and whistles to test the water.....start smaller and then if it's a hit you got more money to improve.

Whomever you two decide to go with, make your choice carefully.

Nipaco

Ok let's get down to business here. If anyone has any interest in collaborating on this, or could forward me someone who might, and can handle the web side of things, please pm me and we can arrange to meet to discuss it. You can decide for yourself after that whether to pursue or not. Thanks to everyone, you provided me with some really good advice and support, I appreciate it.

HellFireClub

Nipaco wrote: »

True. But there is no maybe. If I had the money now I'd pay up front and get a company to do it. Say the work on those first pages cost 2,500. The person will be paid that if the business goes to pot ( very unlikely ) but might not get it for six months. The business is not essentially a web company but rather a "tool" to satisfy a need in this industry. So it's kind of like pickapro in which monies come from professionals. To anyone can get this job done I would set up a contract.... Minimum is paid for work, up to making 50,000 per year after for just keeping it ticking over.

You are obviously very new to starting up a business when you are coming out with stuff like, "True. But there is no maybe." This kind of nonsense is well and truly knocked out of anyone with even the minimum of self employment business experience who has cut their teeth along the way...

If there is no "maybe", then there is no need for the risk sharing that you are inadvertently proposing on here, so go out and borrow or earn the seed capital for this part of the project yourself, pay for what you need done up front and keep the profit for yourself instead of pushing the risk onto a software developer who could put months of their life into this project for no reward whatsoever at the end of it should it not be successful.

I was in your position 2 years ago and spent the last 2 years learning the necessary web development skills, through free online study, buying books and asking loads of questions on here and on other relevant fora on the internet.

What you are trying to do here is shift the financial risk onto someone else, when the risk as an entrepreneur is, and should always be, taken on by you, the promotor.

I don't buy this thing at all above where you are claiming that the person will be paid 2.5K in 6 months time or whatever if the project doesn't work... In any event, 2.5K represents about 10%-20% of the work that is probably required for this kind of a data driven project, so offering 2.5K to someone in 6 months time is essentially throwing crumbs at them, if you are even in a position to pay it in 6 months time. The value of what you are looking for here is not even remotely close to 2.5K, depending on final specification and delivery date.

What you need to do is save up for a couple of months and save a few grand, borrow against it and pay for what you want done up front (final payment when solution is delivered, 20% up front). If it's a safe bet as you claim it is, you'll be well rewarded for it and can pay off your loan very quickly and go on and make loads of profit...

[Deleted User]

HellFireClub wrote: »

You are obviously very new to starting up a business when you are coming out with stuff like, "True. But there is no maybe." This kind of nonsense is well and truly knocked out of anyone with even the minimum of self employment business experience who has cut their teeth along the way...

If there is no "maybe", then there is no need for the risk sharing that you are inadvertently proposing on here, so go out and borrow or earn the seed capital for this part of the project yourself, pay for what you need done up front and keep the profit for yourself instead of pushing the risk onto a software developer who could put months of their life into this project for no reward whatsoever at the end of it should it not be successful.

I was in your position 2 years ago and spent the last 2 years learning the necessary web development skills, through free online study, buying books and asking loads of questions on here and on other relevant fora on the internet.

What you are trying to do here is shift the financial risk onto someone else, when the risk as an entrepreneur is, and should always be, taken on by you, the promotor.

I don't buy this thing at all above where you are claiming that the person will be paid 2.5K in 6 months time or whatever if the project doesn't work... In any event, 2.5K represents about 10%-20% of the work that is probably required for this kind of a data driven project, so offering 2.5K to someone in 6 months time is essentially throwing crumbs at them, if you are even in a position to pay it in 6 months time. The value of what you are looking for here is not even remotely close to 2.5K, depending on final specification and delivery date.

What you need to do is save up for a couple of months and save a few grand, borrow against it and pay for what you want done up front (final payment when solution is delivered, 20% up front). If it's a safe bet as you claim it is, you'll be well rewarded for it and can pay off your loan very quickly and go on and make loads of profit...

Harsh....but true, especially the bit about shifting the financial burden. Thats the reason its hasnt been developed yet. The cold hard truth is it comes down to money, and you need to invest to make it happen. Maybe you should pitch an investor instead of a developer, because what your looking for is a developer who is also an entrepreneur. This is a small pool you are searching I think.
Get 5-10K off an investor/partner and pay for the development theres probably 10 guys on boards that will quote you for it.

HellFireClub

Deleted User wrote: »

Harsh....but true, especially the bit about shifting the financial burden. Thats the reason its hasnt been developed yet. The cold hard truth is it comes down to money, and you need to invest to make it happen. Maybe you should pitch an investor instead of a developer, because what your looking for is a developer who is also an entrepreneur. This is a small pool you are searching I think.
Get 5-10K off an investor/partner and pay for the development theres probably 10 guys on boards that will quote you for it.

Or another way of approaching it would be to scale it right back to the bare minimum of an IT exercise that it can be started off as and taking the initiative to deploy some kind of a solution yourself by picking up the skills and the knowledge yourself, which is all available out there on the Internet for free!

These things always tend to be 10% inspiration and 90% perspiration. Trying to lure someone into a project like this on some kind of a wooly assurance regarding an absolute minimum remuneration in 6 months time I think is fairly outrageous to be honest. I got involved in one such project once on these kind of terms, my time and energy was taken up by an idiot immature arseh*le and what he claimed was a "no brainer" idea, (which it was had he had the balls and the discipline to actually see it through from start to finish!), then the person involved decided not to proceed with it, completely wasting my time.

It's rare I'd quote George W Bush, but as the old saying says: "fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me"...

Kinetic^

I have to agree with the last couple of posts. If you were 100% sure that this is going to work, you would have got funding from either the bank or another investor. With no financial input from you, it gives you an easy out if something goes wrong and shows a lack of commitment imo.

HellFireClub

Kinetic^ wrote: »

I have to agree with the last couple of posts. If you were 100% sure that this is going to work, you would have got funding from either the bank or another investor. With no financial input from you, it gives you an easy out if something goes wrong and shows a lack of commitment imo.

What it also does, and I've witnessed this happening one person I know, is that he did have the financial resources to get his solution made for him, but he didn't have any real knowledge of what was going on in the background, and he became completely and totally reliant upon the specialist knowledge of the other person who became involved (at huge cost I might add).

You'll have a much stronger, more versatile business in the short to medium term if you take the time to break through your IT knowledge gap and learn for yourself, the nuts and bolts of what is happening at IT level within your business... You can easily envisage a situation emerging where someone else puts a solution in place for you and you can't do simple edits to your own site without having to delegate the complete task to someone else, next thing, an invoice will arrive in for you that you won't be happy with, you feel it is excessive given the time involved or whatever, can't/don't/won't pay the invoice, a falling out ensues and the "delete" button is hit for your site and you will be right back to where you started.

This might never happen of course, but it has happened to me once where I got drawn into a project that was never planned to launch due to a gobshyte at the helm of it, and I also saw a similar but more deeper type dispute emerge with a guy I know and it almost put him out of business, so thread very carefully is my advice and never find yourself in a situation where you are having IT work done for you but are IT illiterate, you will only have rings ran around you...

[Deleted User]

Well I'd have to disagree with the first post hellfire had and agree with the second.
What you said about the need to learn the IT is right on the money, from his answers I don't think he wants to.
What I tell people who I build database websites is that they can update it easily.....ie if you can write an email then updating is just as easy for them to do.

Despite what it seems and from the questions I asked him, what he wants really isn't rocket science.

He wants a database driven website with a login system for users (I remember the week I learnt myself how to do that......looooooooong week).
He just needs an initial bit of money to hire a developer to build it with an eye to adding more features as it goes along.
The only big decision for him is how he would want to go with the payments, Paypal or Merchant Account.

Talking of Seed capital etc is inflating and talking up what he actually needs.

HellFireClub

EIREHotspur wrote: »

Well I'd have to disagree with the first post hellfire had and agree with the second.
What you said about the need to learn the IT is right on the money, from his answers I don't think he wants to.
What I tell people who I build database websites is that they can update it easily.....ie if you can write an email then updating is just as easy for them to do.

Despite what it seems and from the questions I asked him, what he wants really isn't rocket science.

He wants a database driven website with a login system for users (I remember the week I learnt myself how to do that......looooooooong week).
He just needs an initial bit of money to hire a developer to build it with an eye to adding more features as it goes along.
The only big decision for him is how he would want to go with the payments, Paypal or Merchant Account.

Talking of Seed capital etc is inflating and talking up what he actually needs.

Couldn't agree more with you, I've a very large DB site now that I built and now manage, I still (although it's rare it happens these days, I'm glad to say!), but I do occasionally find myself close to tears with it the odd time/pulling my hair out, and the toil and pain of overcoming one barrier after another, you can't describe it, but as someone who hadn't a chance of coming up with the $$$ to get it done by a consultant or an outsourced provider, and having had my hand bitten once to often as to know better than to get someone else involved, it was either knuckle down and throw myself in at the deep end and just wade through it day after day week after week, or else face the fact that it was never going to get off the ground...

Having mentioned the hardship of learning something new and the toiling and hassle that comes with it, equally you can't match the feeling you get/adrenalin rush, after you create your very first DB, get a few products into it and then seeing the data on your actual web page after breaking your way through connection strings, membership, databinding, SQL sorting, etc!

:D:D

TristanPeter

Hi All,

I was reading through this thread as I am also trying to get an online business off the ground. Very interesting by the way. I have been at it for about 8 months now and I'm still a ling way off. Recently I applied for an EI Innovation Voucher and I was awarded it. It's not money but it allows me to approach "knowledge providers" and ask them to help with the project in exchange for €5000 worth of chargeable labour from EI. So far I have approached a few third level institutes. I have had some communication but the only enthusiastic one seems to be Sligo IT. I'm not looking at this as a solution to my technical difficulties but more as a bonus in that I hope to use it to tweak and test the site before going live; perhaps add a few features etc. Anyway OP, maybe you should apply for one. It can't hurt. I can't comment on the real world value of the voucher yet as I'm still in the process of "spending" it. If it goes well or if I turns out to be at all useful I'll fill you in.

HellFireClub

TristanPeter wrote: »

Hi All,

I was reading through this thread as I am also trying to get an online business off the ground. Very interesting by the way. I have been at it for about 8 months now and I'm still a ling way off. Recently I applied for an EI Innovation Voucher and I was awarded it. It's not money but it allows me to approach "knowledge providers" and ask them to help with the project in exchange for €5000 worth of chargeable labour from EI. So far I have approached a few third level institutes. I have had some communication but the only enthusiastic one seems to be Sligo IT. I'm not looking at this as a solution to my technical difficulties but more as a bonus in that I hope to use it to tweak and test the site before going live; perhaps add a few features etc. Anyway OP, maybe you should apply for one. It can't hurt. I can't comment on the real world value of the voucher yet as I'm still in the process of "spending" it. If it goes well or if I turns out to be at all useful I'll fill you in.

I ran into this same web of beaurocracy when looking for funding, the story seems to be similar, loads of training and courses and swopping stuff and all sorts of codding, f*ck all of what you actually do need though which is seed capital. Been there with the CEB's and the rest of them.

The only thing you need to get your head around when you are doing something like this at the moment in Ireland is that you are completely and utter on your own. Forget about state agency start-up grants, you will go through a year of filling out forms, meetings, bullsh*t and nonsense and at the end of the day you will not be a step closer to where you want to be.

But if you can learn the skills to get a site up and running and you can muster together a bit of cash to pay for Realex, web hosting, any stock you migh need to acquire, etc, you might just get your idea to market.

But as for any assistance whatsoever from state agencies, just forget about it...

HellFireClub

Here's an example of exactly what I'm talking about:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/0505/breaking4.html

The government will throw money at people overseas, who might create jobs (jobs like Paddy put the sticker onto the Dell box there for us, would ya like a good little lad?!?), but ignoring people wih excellent business ideas who are already here and costing the state 10K a year in benefits, who end up on welfare or else emmigrate, go figure!

[Deleted User]

HellFireClub wrote: »

I ran into this same web of beaurocracy when looking for funding, the story seems to be similar, loads of training and courses and swopping stuff and all sorts of codding, f*ck all of what you actually do need though which is seed capital. Been there with the CEB's and the rest of them.

The only thing you need to get your head around when you are doing something like this at the moment in Ireland is that you are completely and utter on your own. Forget about state agency start-up grants, you will go through a year of filling out forms, meetings, bullsh*t and nonsense and at the end of the day you will not be a step closer to where you want to be.

But if you can learn the skills to get a site up and running and you can muster together a bit of cash to pay for Realex, web hosting, any stock you migh need to acquire, etc, you might just get your idea to market.

But as for any assistance whatsoever from state agencies, just forget about it...

Again, harsh....but true

I was at an event last year where someone was questioning EI's financial input on startups. I advised her that you can't rely on handouts from EI, the only person you can rely on in this situation is yourself. There was a representative beside me from EI, and she very nicely put it that there wasn't a lot of funding available at the moment.
So I imagine there is a lot of people competing for very little, and all the messing may well sidetrack you off more important things when starting a business or indeed thinking of better solutions to get your cashflow.

srsly78

EI are awful at spotting real talent. I approached them 10 years ago with a simple plan and they had no interest at all. They gave a similar company a big grant tho (software), and the guys just blew it all on expensive monitors and chairs etc. 1 year later company was bust, and all the expensive gear disappeared out the back door. Our tax-money hard at work!

AndyJB

Hi All,
Just been following all your comments with interest. I’ve been on both sides of the fence as an investor and business start-up. I’ve even sat on that fence once or twice!

As he/she says themselves, Nipaco has the “winning concept” and needs help getting it to market. A web person is needed and Nipaco has the industrial experience that the concept revolves around, but it will take more than knowing the industry and a site to make money on the web.

What about getting the word out there? It’s pointless having the best site in the world if no one knows about it. How will you manage the back office support?

Nipaco, take a step back for a moment. What you’re asking is for someone to give you their money to build a concept that you say is a world beater.

What hard cash/funds are you putting into the venture? You’ve got the domains and story boards put together already but that’s small beans compared to asking someone to commit their time for free for an unspecified time to build your site.

Nipaco wrote: »

Say the work on those first pages cost 2,500. The person will be paid that if the business goes to pot ( very unlikely )...

How?

Nipaco wrote: »

...but might not get it for six months.

That’s an annualised rate of €13 per day! My sons’ baby sitter wouldn’t get out of bed for that!

What I would suggest you do is………

1) (as already covered by previous posters) get a handle on what web technologies you actually need and how they will work for you. You seem to lack the basic knowledge and that alone will walk you into trouble. When some web head is talking to you, how will you know they're not talking complete rubbish?

2) If not already done, put a structured business plan together. Tell the story of who you are, where project has come from and what you want to achieve. Also include what you’ve done to date with concept and don’t forget the very important cash flow projections.

3) Despite all of their rhetoric the banks are not lending to anyone. So, despite your previously stated and other posters objections or reluctance to approach EI/Local enterprise boards I believe that that would be the best route for you to proceed. If you have a sound idea they’ll organise a mentor (FOC) for you. They may also offer research funding and/or partial funding to get your web elements up and running.

You’ve been plugging away for the past 18 months on your project so you should chase any posibility of getting it off the ground. It would be a shame not to contact and talk with either/or both of the above orgs. The more people you talk with the more you'll learn.

Have a look at the following for info...

http://www.dceb.ie/financial-assistance/types-of-grants

http://www.enterprise-ireland.com/en/Start-a-New-Business/Supports-for-High-Potential-Start-Ups/

Best of luck.

Nipaco

Hellfire,

I think you have put too much time on writing your post and not enough on reading it. And I find your content insulting. I don't wish to partake in a slanging match, I will deal with some of your comments and leave it at that.

"Minimum self employment experience" - 18 years
"Inadvertently proposing" - I'm actively proposing
"learn web skills" - I would assume that an it qualification is one gotten with time, hard graft, and talent. To attempt this myself even after a year, well I'd be an idiot and deserve a good kick in the hole.
"could put months into it, no reward" - another poster already answered this for you.
"shift financial risk" - the risk on an investor is financial, that's what they do. The risk on developer is time, not money.
"safe bet as I claim it is" - Nothing is safe, and I don't recall saying this. If I did please set me straight. I set in my opinion it's a no brainer, very different.
"scale back" - also answered by another poster.
"to lure someone..." - I refuse to respond to such a terrible statement.

If you should like to continue posting, please do so. However I would prefer comments that relate appropriately to the discussion, and which don't insult.
Thank you

Nipaco

"babysitter gets paid more than 13 per day"

As I said, the initial pages and features could for all I know be done in a weekend. 2,500 divided by 3 is not 13.
Again as already said, there is no money upfront or at all right now. If in the event the project falls, I will pay this.
I'm trying to be as black and white as I can here. There's no hidden agenda or bull. It is what it is. If you're interested pm me. If not, I appreciate your input and advice.

YouBuyLocal

I think people with start-up businesses should recognise their frailties and/or lack of expertise in large parts of their businesses in order to build a team of people that can work together productively and harmoniously with complementary skillsets. As Andy said, there is a massive amount of off-line work to be done in any online business these days. Very few can depend on SEO, social networks, web-advertising and viral growth like FB did. This is why the OPs industrial experience is fundamentally important, while at the same time not being any guarantee of growth.

Having read a synopsis of the business I can say it is extremely viable and well-thought out. That says nothing about the OPs ability to develop the business, which is impossible to assess from a few posts on a business forum. That is for his own evaluative judgement as well that of any programmers/investors he speaks to in depth about the project, not for commentatos here to judge.

Some criticism on this thread has be duly warranted, while other comments have been ill-considered and arrogant.

As Earnest Shackelton, the super-human Kildare man with legendary leadership abilities said "adventure is the soul of existence, for it brings harmony among men [and women]"

For my part I wish the OP all of the luck and good fortune in the world.

YBL

HellFireClub

Nipaco wrote: »

Hellfire,

I think you have put too much time on writing your post and not enough on reading it. And I find your content insulting. I don't wish to partake in a slanging match, I will deal with some of your comments and leave it at that.

"Minimum self employment experience" - 18 years
"Inadvertently proposing" - I'm actively proposing
"learn web skills" - I would assume that an it qualification is one gotten with time, hard graft, and talent. To attempt this myself even after a year, well I'd be an idiot and deserve a good kick in the hole.
"could put months into it, no reward" - another poster already answered this for you.
"shift financial risk" - the risk on an investor is financial, that's what they do. The risk on developer is time, not money.
"safe bet as I claim it is" - Nothing is safe, and I don't recall saying this. If I did please set me straight. I set in my opinion it's a no brainer, very different.
"scale back" - also answered by another poster.
"to lure someone..." - I refuse to respond to such a terrible statement.

If you should like to continue posting, please do so. However I would prefer comments that relate appropriately to the discussion, and which don't insult.
Thank you

Ehhh you don't need a "qualification" in something in order to be able to get something done in that particular field. I've developed an excellent website, I did it by sheer perseverance, hard work and long hours. I took ownership of what I needed to learn and taught it to myself by studying and experimenting with what I was getting into which was software development. It wasn't easy but now I can do anything with my site without relying on any other person. You've been advised on here to try the same approach by several posters but you apparently take offence to that advice, well so be it...

HellFireClub

Nipaco wrote: »

"babysitter gets paid more than 13 per day"

As I said, the initial pages and features could for all I know be done in a weekend. 2,500 divided by 3 is not 13.
Again as already said, there is no money upfront or at all right now. If in the event the project falls, I will pay this.
I'm trying to be as black and white as I can here. There's no hidden agenda or bull. It is what it is. If you're interested pm me. If not, I appreciate your input and advice.

Unfortunately I've come across this kind of language before and I recognise it for what it is, which is pure and utter waffle. Best of luck with it, but as the man on the tele says, "I'm out!"

Nipaco

Hi,
I'm on the road for the next few hours. I will respond to all pm's this evening. Enjoy the rest of the day everyone.

[Deleted User]

HellFireClub wrote: »

Ehhh you don't need a "qualification" in something in order to be able to get something done in that particular field. I've developed an excellent website, I did it by sheer perseverance, hard work and long hours. I took ownership of what I needed to learn and taught it to myself by studying and experimenting with what I was getting into which was software development. It wasn't easy but now I can do anything with my site without relying on any other person. You've been advised on here to try the same approach by several posters but you apparently take offence to that advice, well so be it...

If I hadn't looked over at the reflection of myself in the window I'd say you were me.
Thats exactly how I learned what I know.....and as for a degree....the closest I have come to college is watching Beverly Hills 90210 on the Telly.
Also I hear you on persevering and being elated at having some aspect that has you tearing hair out at times...i once spent nearly a week trying to figure how to make database articles format properly on a page. (nl2br)
I now can design websites that look as good as my favourites (nbc.com, fox.com nfl.com)

Nipaco wrote: »

"babysitter gets paid more than 13 per day"

As I said, the initial pages and features could for all I know be done in a weekend. 2,500 divided by 3 is not 13.
Again as already said, there is no money upfront or at all right now. If in the event the project falls, I will pay this.
I'm trying to be as black and white as I can here. There's no hidden agenda or bull. It is what it is. If you're interested pm me. If not, I appreciate your input and advice.

Let me explain this part to you and this is a persons dilema.
When a web developer designs a website he/she loads the files onto web hosting.
If you have the passwords and don't pay the money for the work, being that the work is files that cannot be accessed by anyone but you there isn't much he/she can do bar going after the money in court.
Thats why developers will not work without concrete a payment plan.

YouBuyLocal

EIREHotspur wrote: »

If I hadn't looked over at the reflection of myself in the window I'd say you were me.
Thats exactly how I learned what I know.....and as for a degree....the closest I have come to college is watching Beverly Hills 90210 on the Telly.
Also I hear you on persevering and being elated at having some aspect that has you tearing hair out at times...i once spent nearly a week trying to figure how to make database articles format properly on a page. (nl2br)
I now can design websites that look as good as my favourites (nbc.com, fox.com nfl.com)

Let me explain this part to you and this is a persons dilema.
When a web developer designs a website he/she loads the files onto web hosting.
If you have the passwords and don't pay the money for the work, being that the work is files that cannot be accessed by anyone but you there isn't much he/she can do bar going after the money in court.
Thats why developers will not work without concrete a payment plan.

This is excellent for you, but it is a load of nonsense to say that "there is one route to success for all and I walked it!" [not a quote, a synopsis]

The OP will go a different route. You are assuming sooo much about how he is going to build the team and how he will construct the agreement. Its ridiculous.

I myself am a little ahead of the OP but was in the same position. I am going a different route to yourselves and you can be damned if you think I won't be successful for it! I have absolute confidence in my understanding of the industry, my team-building & management skills, my off-line route to market, my vision, my shrewdness in developing a viable & sustainable business model and growth strategy and my clear visual image of the flow of the site and the necessary features. I also have the absolute confidence of one of Ireland's top young tech-entrepreneurs, who is trialing and selling his smart-phone infrastructure to multi-nationals and all of the top telcoms companies in Europe and the US.

So I absolutely know 100% that you are totally wrong in saying that he has to do what you say and that he is somehow marching into calamity or failure because he is 'too lazy', or whatever you think, to learn to code himself.

For some people a simple cost benefit analysis will show that learning a new skill is not necessary if you can delegate and inspire a team with those requisite skillsets.

TristanPeter

I agree with you YouBuyLocal. I have a Master in Information Technology and I still don't know enough to be anywhere near good enough to code what I require from my site. But what I think I do have is a reasonable understanding of the basic workings of many IT aspects. This means that at the very least I can tell (well I hope so) when I'm being screwed by a pure tech. person who's working on some aspect of my project which I simply don't know enough about or don't have the time to learn to do myself. I'm not so concerned about the IT end of things despite my short comings, I'm more concerned with, as another poster pointed out earlier, getting the service out into the public domain, marketing it, getting people to use it, developing it and hopefully one day making a few quid from it. I still question myself a lot as to the merits of it, and I think that's to do with a lack of objectivity but there's really only one way to find out if it will work or not and that's to do it.

By the way, if anyone wants to share online business marketing advice please share and share alike

YouBuyLocal

TristanPeter wrote: »

I agree with you YouBuyLocal. I have a Master in Information Technology and I still don't know enough to be anywhere near good enough to code what I require from my site. But what I think I do have is a reasonable understanding of the basic workings of many IT aspects. This means that at the very least I can tell (well I hope so) when I'm being screwed by a pure tech. person who's working on some aspect of my project which I simply don't know enough about or don't have the time to learn to do myself. I'm not so concerned about the IT end of things despite my short comings, I'm more concerned with, as another poster pointed out earlier, getting the service out into the public domain, marketing it, getting people to use it, developing it and hopefully one day making a few quid from it. I still question myself a lot as to the merits of it, and I think that's to do with a lack of objectivity but there's really only one way to find out if it will work or not and that's to do it.

By the way, if anyone wants to share online business marketing advice please share and share alike

Thanks TP, I think everyone has doubts about the viability of their businesses, how it will develop/grow/earn revenue, but such is life. The mark of an entrepreneur is a person who can still function in complete uncertainty. Thats not a trivial matter, most people can't handle it and need the support of an institution where the blame and consequences of failure are diluted and can easily be passed down the food chain.

I hope it works out for you and definitely try to be impassionate and objective, as much as is possible:)

[Deleted User]

OP not everyone is as willing to take risks as you are and as someone pointed out what you are doing is shifting some of the risk to the web developer.

Nipaco

I agree, and yes I am.
Sorry to be so blunt as I said earlier, it is what it is.
The purpose of my post however was not and is not, to spread risk. I have an opportunity and I have a need. The need is for expertise in the it world which I cannot afford financially. I'm proposing a share of the opportunity in exchange for either direct it support, or investment funding to provide it indirectly. I can't say it any simpler.