Klitschko-Haye in doubt yet again, Press conferences cancelled....

nacho libre

corny wrote: »

Nothing to do with being ungracious. Once he keeps you interested- he wins. Or at least his pocket wins which was his goal from the beginning.
.

It has everything to do with being ungracious. Lots of people fight injured and win. He has proved himself to be a sore loser.
The fact he wasn't able to back up his talk means people will lose interest in him now. You can tell a lot about a person by how they conduct themselves after a defeat. Haye has proved himself to have no class.

djhaxman

nacho libre wrote: »

It has everything to do with being ungracious. Lots of people fight injured and win. He has proved himself to be a sore loser.
The fact he wanted able to back up his talk means people will lose interest in him now. You can tell a lot about a person by how they conduct themselves after a defeat. Haye has proved himself to have no class.

Ha! reminded me of this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QY1jzjTjIhY

AKS

Drumpot wrote: »

Brilliant, that can be boxings new slogan while the Klitschkos are at the top of the heavyweight divisions!

"If you want to be entertained, boxing is not for you"

Boxing is a sport. Originated in ancient Greece to try and distiguish better athletes. Therefore it is absolutely pointless to blame a lack of entertainment on a fighter or a sport.

AKS

Drumpot wrote: »

Haye has charisma, however annoying it is and he was seen by many as somebody who might drag the heavyweight out of its current slump.

Are you really saying that if the Klitschko boys were exciting boxers they wouldnt of broken the US? Until we get an Eastern European boxer that has an entertaining bone in his body, the jury will be out on that!

By doing what? OK, let's presume he defeats both brothers. And then? Arreola? A rematch with Harrison?

Oat23

I think I should get half of David Haye's purse.

I watched the fight in 3D, which meant I got closer to Klitschko than he did.

:pac:

nacho libre

That's gas.:pac: Who said that?

gene_tunney

I can't believe somebody would say the Wlad should be ashamed of his cautious, safety-first style.

First of all, boxing is about winning, but more importantly people get hurt in boxing.

You can play soccer, you can play rugby, you can play hurling but you can't "play" boxing. Boxing is serious business; everytime somebody gets hit the brain is smashed against the skull and is irreparably damaged. At heavyweight the risks are even greater with bigger hitters. Dozens of boxers have died in the ring, and thousands were left in wheelchairs and reduced to incoherent babblers. Ever hear of Gerard McClellan? Look him up. Look at Ali, Sugar Ray Robinson, Meldrick Taylor, how they ended up was so sad. Ever hear of what happened to Billy Collins jnr against Luis Resto? Look that up too. Evander Holyfield, James Toney, Roy Jones Jnr and Shane Mosley are all still fighting despite showing signs of brain damage.

So for you to say that Wlad or any other fighter should go in there gung-ho like some idiot brawler is a disgusting statement. Anyone who says this has clearly never stepped in a ring in their life. Nobody is going to risk their health for your entertainment, so please go back to WWF or whatever it's called now so you can enjoy their antics. Boxing is real life.

Reekwind

Drumpot wrote: »

Are you really saying that if the Klitschko boys were exciting boxers they wouldnt of broken the US?

Who would they fight there?

The unspoken assumption here is that all the best fighters and all the big money is in the US. An interesting subtext to this fight is that you had two Europeans fighting it out for the undisputed title. The US heavyweight scene is even worse than the British one

Now we'd all like it if another Tyson or Ali came along with mouths as quick as their gloves. But to suggest that the Klitschkos aren't good enough just because they lack that "charisma" (and did you miss the whole play thing Wlad had before his fight?) is pretty strange. This was a championship fight and Haye wasn't nearly good enough. It doesn't matter how much grandstanding he did before the fight - he was not up to the standard within the ring

Kess73

Drumpot wrote: »

Haye has charisma, however annoying it is and he was seen by many as somebody who might drag the heavyweight out of its current slump.

Are you really saying that if the Klitschko boys were exciting boxers they wouldnt of broken the US? Until we get an Eastern European boxer that has an entertaining bone in his body, the jury will be out on that!

At heavyweight, Haye has been very dull inside the ring and is far less aggressive in style to Wlad or Vitali.

Outside the ring Haye can be entertaining and certainly is good at drawing attention to his fights.

You comment on the brothers not breaking America, but seem to be ignoring the fact that Haye never broke America as a cruiser or as a heavy despite him having charisma and seemingly being entertaining in your eyes.


If Wlad had an American passport but fought the exact same way as he does now, he would be loved in America because when it comes to sports in America winners are loved.

If there was a genuine world class American heavyweight knocking about right now, I also have no doubt that money would be thrown at Wlad to get him to fight that heavyweight in America and Wlad would be built up by the American media as some kind of monster fighter for the mainstream audience.

gene_tunney

Wlad hasn't broken America because there is nobody to break in America. Their best heavy is possibly Arreola. Says it all really.

EDIT: Arreola the best American Wlad has not beaten. Vitali did a demolition job on him though. Manny Steward said this fight in America is a possibility.

nacho libre

Reekwind wrote: »

That's fair and I'm not saying that it would have been easy to beat Wlad (this fight must surely lead to a re-evaluation of the 'bums' he's fought previously). That said, I did have a higher opinion of Haye and thought that he'd approach the fight with a concrete strategy to beat the big man. Obviously he lacked the ability to weave his way in and get close, but it was still startling just how lost he looked with those wild lunges

well that's a credit to Haye's verbal skills for convincing you he was capable of doing so. He claimed he'd take the fight to Klitschko, which he never did. The evidence that he wouldn't was there from previous fights against lesser opponents.
Steward said in the build up Haye would be surprised at how agile Wlad actually was. For a big guy he has decent footwork, allied with his reach and strength it makes him very hard to beat. Even when he didn't land with the jab, it was enough to continously squat Haye away and stop him landing any combinations. Haye then eventually started to get desperate and was looking hopelessly at the referee. A far remove from his cocky persona in the build up to the fight.

In the final analysis, you can have a master tactician like Booth in your corner, who convinces people his charge has the plan to defeat his opponent, but in this case his fighter simply hadn't the ability to execute it successfully.

plasmaguy

Both of them are a joke, the heavyweight division is a joke.

Klitchscho did what he had to do, but he was never really tested.

Haye was too small anyways, got shoved around the ring.

To beat the Klitchschos I think you need to be 6"5 minimum and 17 stone minimum to have a chance. And yes I know the guy who beat him in 2004 probably wasn't that size, but you need to be that size to have a chance...and be a good boxer too.

As Barry McGuigan said, Haye just doesn't do enough to win fights like this...he was banking on either Klitchscho tiring or else the one big knockout punch.

Haye has no jab, and you will never win a fight on points without a jab, or even putting together a few combinations every round.

Haye got his tactics wrong.

nacho libre

plasmaguy wrote: »

Haye got his tactics wrong.

A lot of Klitschko's past opponents would say the same thing. Wlad is not a joke.
He's not exciting to watch, but he is a heavyweight champion on merit. He's beaten the best this era has to offer at heavyweight. He can't do anymore.

Charledontsurf

jimmynokia wrote: »

Haye blames broken toe on loss thats the best excuse ive ever heard

http://bit.ly/k7jeaW

Pathetic really, now he's crying for a rematch.

CorkMan

I'd love for Tyson to make a comeback. Bernard Hopkins won a title at 46, George Foreman at 45. Sure Vitali Klitschko is 40 and some people regard him as the best. (in this climate)

I doubt Mike would even think of doing it, but I would hope for it.

Johner

CorkMan wrote: »

I'd love for Tyson to make a comeback. Bernard Hopkins won a title at 46, George Foreman at 45. Sure Vitali Klitschko is 40 and some people regard him as the best. (in this climate)

I doubt Mike would even think of doing it, but I would hope for it.

Jesus christ just stop posting please. Tyson make a comeback?For what? It was bad enough seeing him get battered by ****ing Danny Willams and Kevin McBride. I dread to think what would happen to him now.

gene_tunney

CorkMan wrote: »

I'd love for Tyson to make a comeback. Bernard Hopkins won a title at 46, George Foreman at 45. Sure Vitali Klitschko is 40 and some people regard him as the best. (in this climate)

I doubt Mike would even think of doing it, but I would hope for it.

It's not just about age. Tyson relied on speed and that's why he was past prime by age 24 and completely done by 2001. Hopkins has always relied on ringsmarts and doesn't need to knock people out.

Did you see that exhibition Tyson did about 4 years ago. He was completely done, the likes of Holyfield would KO him in one, and there are lots of heavyweights you would.never hear of that would destroy him!

walshb

Very disappointed with Haye. I wonder how much the broken toe affected him. It had to affect him, but how much? Wlad came out like a man possessed, and really contained Haye for almost every round. The jab being his key weapon. Haye took some very good shots in there. All around it was a very dull affair. I am not surprised. Hype hype hype. I think a peak Tyson or Holyfield would take both men out in the same night.

nacho libre

Kess73 wrote: »

At heavyweight, Haye has been very dull inside the ring and is far less aggressive in style to Wlad or Vitali.

.

Agreed. For all the talk of him "breathing life into the division.
Haye actually has a very low punch output of any ranked heavyweight "
He criticised some of Wlad's recent opponents for being boring and negative against him, and how he, unlike them, was going to make the robot malfunction, yet he was equally negative as they were.
The reality is he has not been an exciting fighter to watch at heavyweight.

corny

nacho libre wrote: »

It has everything to do with being ungracious. Lots of people fight injured and win. He has proved himself to be a sore loser.
The fact he wasn't able to back up his talk means people will lose interest in him now. You can tell a lot about a person by how they conduct themselves after a defeat. Haye has proved himself to have no class.

My point is there's method to everything he does outside the ring. After the fight he walked over to Wlad, shook his hand and graciously congratulated him. Then the cameras are switched on and David Haye the business takes centre stage. If he manages to convince the Brits his injury held him back he'll make 15 million for his next fight too and **** lets face it the British sporting public would swallow anything. If he gets on stage and says Wlads a lot better than me, i wasn't that good in the first place that harms his future earning potential (people want to believe he'll win for Britain). For me, what he thinks and what he says aren't the same thing. He doesn't strike me as classless guy outside of boxing so i'll stick to it.

cowzerp

On the toe thing! It was his little toe, when power punching your on the ball of your foot and there is less weight on little toe as when just standing on it! It's a brutal excuse, i boxed with broken rib and just manned up and did not let it get to me and that's worse than a little toe!!

He's a bad loser and been honest is a poor heavyweight and boring too, he threw barely anything and what he did was sloppy and just hoping for lucky punch, let's put Haye been top heavyweight to bed once and for all

walshb

Haye was pretty poor, no doubt. All that talk and hype, and he does next to nothing for 12 rds. Wlad wasn't much better though. 3 inches taller, 30 lbs heavier and he never once really went for it. Yes, he pressed, but didn't do much. Haye should have went out firing, and at least tried to get to Klit. Get in the pocket and give it a go you pussy. Ducking, diving, falling! Sham!

nacho libre

corny wrote: »

My point is there's method to everything he does outside the ring. After the fight he walked over to Wlad, shook his hand and graciously congratulated him. Then the cameras are switched on and David Haye the business takes centre stage. If he manages to convince the Brits his injury held him back he'll make 15 million for his next fight too and **** lets face it the British sporting public would swallow anything. If he gets on stage and says Wlads a lot better than me, i wasn't that good in the first place that harms his future earning potential (people want to believe he'll win for Britain). For me, what he thinks and what he says aren't the same thing. He doesn't strike me as classless guy outside of boxing so i'll stick to it.

Shaking Wlad's hand and congratulating him after all the stunts and hype was the least he could do.
Only the most gullible, which surely there can't be that many of, even in Britain, will believe the toe injury was a decisive factor in his loss.
I still think it has more to do with his ego than a business strategy to keep up his profile. People with a big ego need to make excuses rather than accept the reality of the situation. If it was just his business instincts taking over, why make a point of standing up on the table and showing his broken little toe, that just makes him look very petty.
He does deserve credit for talking his way into this fight and for staying upright after Klitschko landed some decent shots on him.

Daroxtar

Totally agree with Cowzerp about the toe. If it had been his big toe then absolutely, he should never have fought but his little toe??? That was a lame excuse (pardon the pun).

The only thing that Haye can take any credit for in there is that his chin is obviously not as bad as people thought. Mind you he didn't really get hit with any huge shots either, but he took what was given.

corny

nacho libre wrote: »

Shaking Wlad's hand and congratulating after all the stunts and hype was the least he could do.
Only the most gullible, which surely there can't be that many of, even in Britain, will believe the toe injury was a decisive factor in his loss.
I still think it has more to do with his ego than a business strategy to keep up his profile. People with a big ego need to make excuses rather than accept the reality of the situation. If it was just his business instincts taking over, why make a point of standing up on the table and showing his broken little toe, that just makes him look very petty.
He does deserve credit for talking his way into this fight and for staying upright after Klitschko landed some decent shots on him.

All the stunts and the hype (the toe just being the next chapter) have made him a rich man and with respect, affecting your sensibilities is a small price to pay. I found his remarks and his antics equally distasteful, his toe actually made me laugh, loudly, but i think where you and i disagree is i think its premeditated. I think Haye is all business and everything and anything he says outside of the ring means nothing to him. Sure if i'm honest i'd say Wlad was in on it or at least was privy to "right i'm gonna talk lots of **** now. Won't be pretty but it will make us both rich". I doubt his ego even comes into it. He's probably secretly ****ing delighted with how the evening went. Skys phone lines crashing, 15 million in the pocket and Wlad hardly damaged his pretty boy features. Maybe one more money spinning fight (where the over riding goal again is: **** winning, don't get tagged by these fellas) and he can swan off a rich man.

heyheyhey1982

The fight was terrible. I bought into the hype from Haye. Seeing him today like he was a broken man. He deserved it, he deserved to be shown up like that. Sky wont be getting a load of 21euros if he ever fights again. The only division with great fighters is the middle and light weight divisions now. The Heavyweight Division is dead. The two brothers can keep the belts and melt the down into gold tas for all i care.

Reekwind

plasmaguy wrote: »

To beat the Klitchschos I think you need to be 6"5 minimum and 17 stone minimum to have a chance. And yes I know the guy who beat him in 2004 probably wasn't that size, but you need to be that size to have a chance...and be a good boxer too

Ah, but its the last bit that's key. Wlad is a good boxer - a good fighter... maybe not so much - and to beat him you have to be a big bruiser OR an excellent boxer. I've said this in another thread, but Tyson in his prime (at 5'10" and 15st!) would have torn through Wlad. He had the speed and the sheer ability to get inside bigger fighters and impose himself on them. Haye had neither the physique OR the skill to do this

tweedledee

Ahh the HW division has been poor for years now.Two very poor fighters.Klitchko????? has taken some heavy beatings in the past from nobodies,HW needs some quality players to come good.

cowzerp

I enjoyed the fight and wlad went for it in fairness-Haye done the bare minimum and was just too scared of wlad, I'm sick of all the people saying heavyweight boxing is dead!! There's no Tyson but most generations same could be said on reality.

davegrohl48

Thread title is correct, Haye has made a joke of himself. Expect our phones to be buzzing with ingenious little texts on the joke front about his broken little toe. His using this as an excuse is beyond pathetic. When you punch most of the weight is pivoted across yer big toe. I can't see how yer little toe would affect you that much. Plus he said the injury happened a few weeks ago. C'mon man have the respect for yourself not to use that as an excuse.
A poster earlier in the week thought Hayes footwork might be suspect when under pressure and that proved correct. Coming in he was off balance and punching he was off balance. The only time he looked comfortable was in circling the ring and moving backwards.
His hands down c'mon and hit me antics were daft, Wlad was regularly landing the second or third attempt at a jab when Haye did this.
Haye had two ways he could have fought last night, he could have cam forward and made a fight of it. But that would require a willingness to take a punch. He could have stood tall and tried jab one/two, but that would require a willingness to box orthodox and not show off in a I cant be hit style.