Klitschko-Haye in doubt yet again, Press conferences cancelled....

eagle eye

supersparkz wrote: »

What's the difference between David Haye and my wife?

When my wife trash talks, she gets a belt. :D:D

That might be funny is some parallel universe somewhere but I can tell you that nobody finds it funny here.

or at least I hope not.

tysonslovechild

its just a bit of humour, im sure its meant as a joke. Glad haye got shown up after all the talk.

supersparkz

eagle eye wrote: »

That might be funny is some parallel universe somewhere but I can tell you that nobody finds it funny here.

or at least I hope not.

Was just trying to lighten the mood a bit. Didn't realise it was so sensitive here.:(

bellybuster12

supersparkz wrote: »

What's the difference between David Haye and my wife?

When my wife trash talks, she gets a belt. :D:D

I found it funny:)

Syferus

eagle eye wrote: »

That might be funny is some parallel universe somewhere but I can tell you that nobody finds it funny here.

or at least I hope not.

Up to your old tricks I see, Eagle Eye!

CorkMan

Well goodbye to an undisputed heavyweight champion. I think we would have more chance of Tyson-Holyfield III than an undisputed champion. Or Ali-Frazier 4.

At least Vitali is knocking on the door of being 40, so hopefully he won't be around for much longer.

Reekwind

CorkMan wrote: »

At least Vitali is knocking on the door of being 40, so hopefully he won't be around for much longer.

Which is a good thing?

If Vitali retires do you think that a better fighter is suddenly going to spring into existence? Like it or not, the brothers are unquestionably the best fighters in the division ATM. Their retirement is merely going to lead to a lowering of standards and the complete absence of any heavyweight boxers of note

dlofnep

Povetkin and Chagaev are fighting for the WBA ordinary title in August. Winner of that surely must fight on of the Brother's Grimm? I think Povetkin takes Chagaev. He's a decent boxer - but I think he will be inevitably too small to take out either of the Klitschkos.

walshb

Reekwind wrote: »

Because he didn't wade in all fists a-whirling, instead choosing to rely on his superior technique, Klitschko is somehow a coward or a "pussy"? That's just beyond silly. This is boxing, not some fight outside the chipper on a Saturday night

And again, when did I imply that Haye OR Klit had to go hell for leather winging wildly and recklessly? What they put on was a snooze fest; and I didn't see anything technically soound at all. Was there even a proper body punch thrown? Any time they got close they were either hugging or tripping over each other? If that is what one calls technical skill, then the sport is doomed. Like I said earlier, go watch Groves-DeGale as one example of a recent fight
that displayed technical skills, AND actual action.

As for me calling them pussy's? No, they aren't, but watching them made one think that. It was all very staged looking. Neither man really wanted to give it a go. What I saw was just very run of the mill stuf, and for supposed world heavyweight champions (sports richest prize), they stunk!

nacho libre

walshb wrote: »

And again, when did I imply that Haye OR Klit had to go hell for leather winging wildly and recklessly? What they put on was a snooze fest; and I didn't see anything technically soound at all. Was there even a proper body punch thrown? Any time they got close they were either hugging or tripping over each other? If that is what one calls technical skill, then the sport is doomed. Like I said earlier, go watch Groves-DeGale as one example of a recent fight
that displayed technical skills, AND actual action.

As for me calling them pussy's? No, they aren't, but watching them made one think that. It was all very staged looking. Neither man really wanted to give it a go. What I saw was just very run of the mill stuf, and for supposed world heavyweight champions (sports richest prize), they stunk!

I can't see why you're dismayed by the nature of the fight. Both fighters are actually cautious in the ring. At least one of them didn't try to pretend otherwise, though.
You knew what you were going to get Wlad. You obviously thought
Haye was good enough to counteract this and trouble Wlad.
Wlad is efficient in the ring, he uses his long reach and strength to stop fighters getting on the inside, where he is not comfortable. It's not particularly exciting to watch, i'm sure he doesn't care though as long as he keeps winning. If he was more gung ho in his approach his critics wouldn't be saluting him for being exciting to watch if he ended up losing. They'd be saying he was overrated and finally found out.

cowzerp

Bren Haye made it a snooze fest, he was negative and not committing to anything even though he needed too, he was the 1 falling around etc, Wlad done a good job and it is hard to fight someone who chooses not to fight.

walshb

cowzerp wrote: »

Bren Haye made it a snooze fest, he was negative and not committing to anything even though he needed too, he was the 1 falling around etc, Wlad done a good job and it is hard to fight someone who chooses not to fight.

Paul, no doubt Haye was the more negative. Kilit at least did look like he wanted to make a fight of it, but he still should have pressed home his
advantages. He seemed content to barely do enough, which I know is enough (and his right), but I just saw nothing good with either man.

walshb

nacho libre wrote: »

You obviously thought
Haye was good enough to counteract this and trouble Wlad.
.

Yes, I thought he could. But, I also didn't expect him not to try. He didn't try, and any effort he made were pretty lame. That is what was so disappointing. The lack of commitment.

davegrohl48

It's a pity yer man who walked David Haye into the ring (MMA guy James something who beat Pudzianowski) wasn't substituted into the fight. At least he'd have the guts to come forward and take a punch.
For me the best heavyweight in Britain at the moment is Richard Towers. Far too strong and good at the basics for David Haye. Haye/Klitchko wouldn't dream of giving the guy a fight though. This is the problem at heavyweight. You build a good strong athlete who knows the basics and then you go poor waiting for a decent payday. No one wants to fight you if you're any good. Now if yer only 6'1" and are carrying 14 lbs o fat, they'll sign you up and praise you from the heavens as a tough test. If yer built like Towers and can do 1 - 2 down the middle and move yer feet forget about it.

cowzerp

Thompson, sure Butterbean ko'd him in about 5 seconds..

he'd fight but get beat quick, its not all about someone been ko'd

davegrohl48

KO'd by Butterbean. By god that is embarassing for a man 6 foot 6. I only every seen him in one fight in fairness, where the awful Pudzianowski was managing to land on him. Suppose I just wanted somebody to come forward and engage even if beaten.

Kess73

davegrohl48 wrote: »

It's a pity yer man who walked David Haye into the ring (MMA guy James something who beat Pudzianowski) wasn't substituted into the fight. At least he'd have the guts to come forward and take a punch.
For me the best heavyweight in Britain at the moment is Richard Towers. Far too strong and good at the basics for David Haye. Haye/Klitchko wouldn't dream of giving the guy a fight though. This is the problem at heavyweight. You build a good strong athlete who knows the basics and then you go poor waiting for a decent payday. No one wants to fight you if you're any good. Now if yer only 6'1" and are carrying 14 lbs o fat, they'll sign you up and praise you from the heavens as a tough test. If yer built like Towers and can do 1 - 2 down the middle and move yer feet forget about it.

Tower's defence is not great at all. Now that is something he could work on and improve, but right now someone like Haye would land pretty easily on that regularly exposed chin of Towers.


If you take a look through the footage of his last three or four fights, just look at how often his opponents land flush.


I like Towers in that he has quick hands, likes to let his punches go, and comes forward, but I have my doubts about that defence of his, and also about his power.

davegrohl48

What I like about Towers is that for such a big man he is very athletic. He's built like a basketballer rather than a bulky rugby player. His legs are well able to move him around. He's well used to the Brendan Ingle training of footwork using the lines method. I'd say Towers has decent power on his left jab and straight right. He looks to have decent handspeed and he's around 18 stone. He has a strong pair of legs, so I'd say flush down the middle with the straight right anyone would hit the canvas. If he learns to use his left defensively and his right down the middle aggressively, very hard for people to land clean on him. Hopefully he steps up competition and we see some interesting fights.

Kess73

davegrohl48 wrote: »

What I like about Towers is that for such a big man he is very athletic. He's built like a basketballer rather than a bulky rugby player. His legs are well able to move him around. He's well used to the Brendan Ingle training of footwork using the lines method. I'd say Towers has decent power on his left jab and straight right. He looks to have decent handspeed and he's around 18 stone. He has a strong pair of legs, so I'd say flush down the middle with the straight right anyone would hit the canvas. If he learns to use his left defensively and his right down the middle aggressively, very hard for people to land clean on him. Hopefully he steps up competition and we see some interesting fights.

I am very wary as to how much power he actually has tbh. I have a felling that in heavyweight terms his power is pretty average. I certainly don't think he has the power to take another fighter out with one shot, rather that he is the type who does his damage over time, wearing the other fighter down.

He is athletic, and is a good watch.

His last fight put a lot of doubts in my head about him though. He struggled to put away Ismail Abdoul and it went the distance. Abdoul is some 8 or so inches shorter and close to two stone lighter. Abdoul's 215lbs was very heavy for him as he often comes in at under 200lbs for his fights at cruiserweight.

Tower's won handily enough on points, but did not seem to have the power to stop Abdoul or look like he was going to stop him. Also Abdoul got through Tower's defence a lot and landed cleanly. Abdoul's lack of power at cruiserweight let alone heavyweight meant Tower's was in no danger, but a genuine heavy would have a field day with that defence unless serious work is done with it.

What bothers me is that the same defensive flaws Towers was showing in 2009, he continued to show in 2010 and again this year.

I think you might be thinking of someone else when you said Towers is an 18 stone fighter.

His heaviest weight for a fight was a pound or two over 17 stone and generally he fights at around the 16 1/2 to 16 3/4 stone mark.

davegrohl48

I was only guestimating Towers weight really. I will try and catch his next fight online. He's probably ready to start appearing as a bit of a draw on the undercard of decent fights in UK. He might fare out a little better against bigger guys is one thought? He's so tall he might have difficulty adjusting in small movements to land his own shots. Bigger guys less agile. Wouldn't say he has his ring confidence yet to trust his own abilities. That will help him alot.

nacho libre

If the brothers outstay there welcome they will inevitably be beaten by
someone they are expected to beat.
So someone like Towers might beat one of the Klitschkos when they are on the way down. He is simply not good enough to beat either of them while they are still in good shape.

plasmaguy

plasmaguy wrote: »

I reckon Vitali sees an easy payday in Haye...he's even bigger than Wlad and with a better chin, so he'd do even better than Wlad, if that's possible.

I agree though the Klitschkos aren't doing much for the heavyweight division. They are very negative. There's not much entertainment to be had watching a guy jab for 3 minutes straight, and use his right hand once or twice a round.

Maybe Haye was too confident, thought he could knock out Wlad with a couple of punches.

Wlad has learned a lot since he was knocked out before. He's a bit like Mayweather, difficult to corner him or get a clean punch at him. And you need a reach at least as long as his.

And Wlad didn't run out of steam either like Foreman did against Ali. He looks super fit which doesn't help opponents.

I still think Vitali and Haye will get it on, both probably thinking of retiring and looking for a big paycheque and little chance of being knocked out.

Looks like I was right.

http://www.rte.ie/sport/boxing/2011/0711/klitschkov_hayed.html

Easy payday for both as they near retirement.

walshb

plasmaguy wrote: »

And Wlad didn't run out of steam either like Foreman did against Ali. He looks super fit which doesn't help opponents.

.

Well, maybe if he threw 1/10 of the shots that George threw, with 1/10 of the venom behind them, against an opponent with 1/10 of the talent that Ali had, he might not have been so fresh. It's all fractions;)

btw, George certainly was tiring, but he got nailed with a serious combo at the end.
That combo would have taken Haye and Wlad out in round 1.

Vitali ain't no fool. He knows the boxing public will buy into Haye. Easy money!

Dohnny Jepp

walshb wrote: »

He seemed content to barely do enough, which I know is enough

I know what you mean, but to be fair Wlad did win like all but one or two rounds. So he may have "barely done enough" for each round,but come the end he had done well more than enough.

walshb

Dohnny Jepp wrote: »

I know what you mean, but to be fair Wlad did win like all but one or two rounds. So he may have "barely done enough" for each round,but come the end he had done well more than enough.

Yes, you could not really argue with the result. Wlad was the winner no doubt. Haye was just a spolier and survivor for the night. He was not a participant. I saw nothing special from either man.

CorkMan

walshb wrote: »

Well, maybe if he threw 1/10 of the shots that George threw, with 1/10 of the venom behind them, against an opponent with 1/10 of the talent that Ali had, he might not have been so fresh. It's all fractions;)

btw, George certainly was tiring, but he got nailed with a serious combo at the end.
That combo would have taken Haye and Wlad out in round 1.

Vitali ain't no fool. He knows the boxing public will buy into Haye. Easy money!

Or else he can fight his brother, that would make a couple of bob. Or else they would lose too much revenue from their ads and commercials in Germany if a match happened?

colly10

CorkMan wrote: »

Or else he can fight his brother, that would make a couple of bob. Or else they would lose too much revenue from their ads and commercials in Germany if a match happened?

Or maybe they value family more importantly than unifying the belts?

If me and my imaginary brother had all heavyweight titles, I would not be fighting him to unify the titles. If I win I get everything and leave my brother with nothing, I also ruin his legacy and he becomes a joke, I show I am the better brother. I would also be trying to knock him out because if we decided to fight I would have to take the fight seriously rather than do things by halves.

Anyone who would choose to do this against a brother they get on with has something seriously wrong with their character. You've mentioned it a few times, it has nothing to do with money or advertising, it is totally unrealistic to expect 2 brothers to fight to unify the heavyweight division

eagle eye

walshb wrote: »

And again, when did I imply that Haye OR Klit had to go hell for leather winging wildly and recklessly? What they put on was a snooze fest; and I didn't see anything technically soound at all. Was there even a proper body punch thrown? Any time they got close they were either hugging or tripping over each other? If that is what one calls technical skill, then the sport is doomed. Like I said earlier, go watch Groves-DeGale as one example of a recent fight
that displayed technical skills, AND actual action.

As for me calling them pussy's? No, they aren't, but watching them made one think that. It was all very staged looking. Neither man really wanted to give it a go. What I saw was just very run of the mill stuf, and for supposed world heavyweight champions (sports richest prize), they stunk!

Ah come on man. It was close to impossible for Wlad to look good in that fight. Haye was either running away or jumping in and diving to the floor at every given opportunity.

Reminds me of Akinwande when he fought Lewis. He just kept holding until he got dq'd. Did Lewis look good in that fight, not in the slightest but he was winning the rounds. Nothing he could do about the other man spoiling though and thats what Haye did.

walshb

eagle eye wrote: »

Ah come on man. It was close to impossible for Wlad to look good in that fight. Haye was either running away or jumping in and diving to the floor at every given opportunity.

Reminds me of Akinwande when he fought Lewis. He just kept holding until he got dq'd. Did Lewis look good in that fight, not in the slightest but he was winning the rounds. Nothing he could do about the other man spoiling though and thats what Haye did.

Haye was negative, but he was not running away. Klit just doesn't have the skills to do all that much. What he does do is effective. His size is so importnat to him. Even when Haye was well in range Klit didn't do anything great.

I respect both brothers as champions; I am just not inspired by their talent.

cowzerp

walshb wrote: »

Haye was negative, but he was not running away.

Yes he was, he stayed out of range the whole time and shoulld have been trying to get into his own range, thats running away.

What we're talking about here is not slick footwork backed up by counterpunching, it was just get out of range and hope for the best..

Very hard to look good against that and for wlad to land almost 50% of his punches against this akward negative style is brilliant in my opinion