would you become a vegetarian?

shannon_tek

This tread has killed me. i need meat now. but look thankfully they will reproduces more animals. i rely heavily on meat. cause well spuds are great and everything. but they have to be perfect. other wise i would starve. i like animals bar cows cause they scare the bejaysus out of me. so yes im all in favour of meat. now time to go to the kitchen. cant wait for dinner tomoro.

Naikon

Violafy wrote: »

Have fun with your high cholesterol, obesity and future heart problems.

Interesting. So stupid of me to presume Vegetarians cannot suffer from the above problems. Who would have known vegetables and spuds actually prevent all of the above. The stupid - It burns! Seriously though, it's not that simple. Obesity is the result of excess calorie consumption. It does not matter where the energy comes from. Obesity can result from eating too many spuds for example. Eating meat alone does not cause Obesity, at least not by any reputable scientific standards.

Violafy

Naikon wrote: »

Interesting. So stupid of me to presume Vegetarians cannot suffer from the above problems. Who would have known vegetables and spuds actually prevent all of the above. The stupid - It burns! Seriously though, it's not that simple. Obesity is the result of excess calorie consumption. Eating meat does not cause Obesity, at least not by scientific standards.

Eating large amounts of red meat will increase the likelihood of having cholesterol problems, as it's one of the biggest sources of saturated fat and is extremely high in calories. Obviously a vegetarian who lives off chips and pizza will have the same problem, but the truth is that most are more health conscious than that.

Chris P. Bacon

AssaultedPeanut wrote: »

The thread is about whether or not you'd consider vegetarianism. Yes or No with a little insight as to why or why not is the reply. No one gives a fuck what you and Mr Bacon are having for your dinner or how much you love meat.

Troll much

I had chicken for my dinner,and now im just back from McDonald's with a large ciabatta deluxe burger with bacon of course

Naikon

Violafy wrote: »

Eating large amounts of red meat will increase the likelihood of having cholesterol problems, as it's one of the biggest sources of saturated fat and is extremely high in calories. .

Moderation. This isn't reserved solely to the Vegetarian camp. You could make the same argument for "vegetables fried in butter". Idiots will eat 72oz steaks and proclaim evil. I accept that. Meat is far more dense than Vegetables, therefore you must exercise caution in how much you eat. Moderate your intake to lean cuts - Problem solved.

sparks24

ha not a hope of it i refuse to eat anything unless it had a soul!! :pac:

BickNarry

Catsmokinpot wrote: »

We didn't create the meat industry, the horrific abuse of animals by some people is unnatural, but it's not unnatural to protect a food source. we already ate meat before we began farming, we simply figured out that if we protected our animals by farming them, we could get more meat, and as happens that we trade food in this form of civilisation.

You're right,I should qualify that.

I was not talking about it being natural in the 'mother nature' context. I meant that the scale of farming is man made i.e. man controls the amount of farmed animals there are.

Catsmokinpot

BickNarry wrote: »

If you consume all the daily nutrient requirements, then yes it is. Because of globalisation meat based diets have become notoriously unhealthy.

lol, blaming globalisation for peoples laziness in not consuming a balanced diet?

Honest Vegetarians will admit that vegan-ism isn't healthy without certain supplements. some vegetarian parents have even been convicted of child neglect, causing death for giving them an improper diet.

BickNarry wrote: »

You can be healthier. A healthy vegetarian diet is healthier than your average meat based diet. And there are legitimate arguments. 'Ethical sourcing' is subjective. Picking your favourite form of killing...kinda like picking your favourite nazi.

Excuse me? then why do some of the longest living communities in the world eat meat? (I'm not defending meat eaters but you're clearly misinformed)

Picking your favourite NAZI? what a ridiculously childish statement that trivialises the the holocaust and the millions of people of all races (not just Jewish people) that were processed in those horrific concentration camps. let me guess, you're a member of PETA....

BickNarry wrote: »

Just take a look at professional athletes who are vegan or vegetarian. There are UFC fighters, weight lifters, body builders, runners, swimmers etc. If you want links i'd be happy to provide them,but i'm in college and the connection is slow.

That's a small proportion of people compared to the majority of athletes and this doesn't prove a thing.

BickNarry wrote: »

Eating meat is a choice.

Not really, not eating meat is a choice, eating meat is the norm. even before farming began.... if everyone was to stop eating meat, we'd have to kill all the animals that occupy the land that we use for raising farm animals so we could grow more crops to feed everyone.

BickNarry wrote: »

Meat based and non-meat based diets can be healthy or unhealthy. With meat based diets there are alot of things we must break down to get the nutrients we require. With non-meat based diets we generally consumer the nutrients in more direct way.

Bull****, either way you have to break down the nutrients you require.. Cooking is a form of pre-digestion and we get all the nutrients we require from eating a balanced diet of both meat and vegetables. With a vegan diet you need supplements.

BickNarry wrote: »

Meat was often the most accessible way of consuming a high number of calories and certain nutrients in previous times. this is not the case now. It now an ethical/enviornmental choice.

It's an ethical/environmental choice to farm Vegetables too you nincompoop
it would require the same amount of land, where do you think all the displaced animals would go? they would have to be killed, where would we put them all?

BickNarry wrote: »

Having said that, we are socially conditioned to eat meat (this thread is proof). Therefore I never bring up beign a vegetarian to friends who are not. It's not my concern what they eat. But meat eaters love to come up with the same set of 'arguments' that they got anecdotally from someone else and then cannot reply to my argument....

God this thread is just ridiculous.

The only thing I was conditioned to do was think for myself. The only thing this thread has proved is that there are some self righteous vegetarians that believe their **** doesn't stink like yourself.

What set of arguments? you think that meat eaters aren't capable of critical thinking? I tried to be a vegetarian, I realised that we are one collective organism feeding off of itself and powered by the sun, so I went back to eating meat.

Bookworm85

Hi OP,

I just wanted to post one thing here, now I'm not sure how strict of a vegetarian you are. Is it just meat you are excluding or are you venturing towards the vegan end of the scale?

I ask because vitamin b12 will be lacking from your diet if you aren't consuming any animal products (meat, eggs, milk, fish etc). B12 is so important - and when its missing it can do some terrible damage. I'm not vegetarian and I have a condition called pernicious anaemia, which means that my body cannot absorb vit b12 from my diet and as such need regular intramuscular injections just to keep my body functioning and to stop feeling like I'm going around the twist.

I just wanted to advise you to get a good B complex supplement from a pharmacist/health food store and if you feel any of the following symptoms make an appointment with your gp.

Violafy

Catsmokinpot wrote: »

some vegetarian parents have even been convicted of child neglect, causing death for giving them an improper diet.

Er. What?

Picking your favourite NAZI? what a ridiculously childish statement that trivialises the the holocaust and the millions of people of all races (not just Jewish people) that were processed in those horrific concentration camps. let me guess, you're a member of PETA....

I don't see what's so ridiculous about that. Although obviously it's better to let animals roam freerange and kill them quickly than keeping them in tiny cages and force feeding so that they can't even walk, I don't don't think there's such thing as "humane" killing. Would you prefer to be shot or strangled? It makes no difference in the end, because either way you'd be dead.

Not really, not eating meat is a choice, eating meat is the norm.

Since when does something being a norm or tradition make it right?

Catsmokinpot

Violafy wrote: »

Er. What?

http://naturalhygienesociety.org/diet-veganbaby.html

Catsmokinpot

Violafy wrote: »

I don't see what's so ridiculous about that. Although obviously it's better to let animals roam freerange and kill them quickly than keeping them in tiny cages and force feeding so that they can't even walk, I don't don't think there's such thing as "humane" killing. Would you prefer to be shot or strangled? It makes no difference in the end, because either way you'd be dead.

First of all, hollocaust victims weren't killed for food they were killed because of a tyrannical regime run by a madman. and they weren't killed quickly either a lot of them were tortured raped and worse.. and you're trying to compare this mental and physical torture experienced by humans with chickens?

I agree with you that torturing and abuse of animals is despicable and disgusting, but you have to be a whole other kind of sick, to do that to a person.

No, there isn't such a thing as a humane killing, but there is such a thing as a respect and reverence for nature (something which is lacking in non free range factory farming methods), however you can still have that respect and eat meat.

A wild herbivorous animal lives in fear its whole life, then it is violently torn apart and eaten by some predator (eaten alive in some cases)

What difference does it make if we eat that animal and it is killed quickly (as I mentioned in my previous post with inert gas inducing hypoxia which causes no distress to the animal whatsoever)

Violafy wrote: »

Since when does something being a norm or tradition make it right?

What is right when it comes to nature? personally I'm always reminded of the poor baby elephant that lost its mother in a sandstorm and nobody helped it, they just filmed while it walked the other way back into the desert to die. people say we have to let nature take it's course and that we're different, no we're not, we're part of nature, we are nature.

And once again, what do you suggest we do? kill all the animals to create more farm land so we can stop eating meat?

Catsmokinpot

BickNarry wrote: »

You're right,I should qualify that.

I was not talking about it being natural in the 'mother nature' context. I meant that the scale of farming is man made i.e. man controls the amount of farmed animals there are.

I agree with you in this respect, but these are the problems created by modern capitalism and the desire for profit, not by eating meat as a "moral decision".

Personally I feel Meat eaters have separated themselves from the killing side of things, and if they had to kill their food there might be less meat eaters on the planet or at least meat eaters won't eat as much meat. I try not to eat meat too often, but I do believe in a balanced diet consisting mostly of vegetables, With meat as a side and not the other way around like some people.

Sorry in advance if you think I was intentionally insulting you by my last post, I Just think the way you portray meat eaters as ill-informed idiots without valid arguments is wrong, I don't believe this is a moral issue, it's simply a matter of where you believe your place in this world is.

Lia_lia

I'm a vegetarian. But not one of those vegetarians that like to bring the fact that they are a vegetarian up whenever they meet someone for the first time I can imagine that most vegetarians would piss me off. Actually most of them do anyway.

I never ate meat growing up, at all. (hippy mother!!) Tried it for a few years and found it meh. So now I'm completely vegetarian again. And I'm one of the healthiest people I know! Boom.

BickNarry

Catsmokinpot wrote: »

lol, blaming globalisation for peoples laziness in not consuming a balanced diet?

Because of globalisation a new market has been opened that offer cheaper food but limited choice. This cheaper food is usually of a lower nutrition value.

Catsmokinpot wrote: »

Honest Vegetarians will admit that vegan-ism isn't healthy without certain supplements. some vegetarian parents have even been convicted of child neglect, causing death for giving them an improper diet.

Can't comment here. My sister is a vegan. I have some knowledge on it, but it's limited.

Catsmokinpot wrote: »

Excuse me? then why do some of the longest living communities in the world eat meat? (I'm not defending meat eaters but you're clearly misinformed)

Read what I said again. It was in reply to someone who said a vegetarian diet could not be healthier than a meat based diet. I was saying that a healthy vegetarian diet is probably healthier than your average meat based diet. Which I stick by.(Not that I'm a healthy vegetarian)

Catsmokinpot wrote: »

Picking your favourite NAZI? what a ridiculously childish statement that trivialises the the holocaust and the millions of people of all races (not just Jewish people) that were processed in those horrific concentration camps. let me guess, you're a member of PETA....

I'm not trivialising anything. Picking your favourite type of murder when it is uneccessary is not really picking anything at all.

The Holocaust was suffering on an unimaginable scale. Millions of animals being killed, suffering, and being sold for a couple of euro to then end up as feces is unimaginable to me also.

Catsmokinpot wrote: »

That's a small proportion of people compared to the majority of athletes and this doesn't prove a thing.

Again, in response to someone who was harping on about vegetarians not being able to get protein.......

Catsmokinpot wrote: »

Not really, not eating meat is a choice, eating meat is the norm. even before farming began.... if everyone was to stop eating meat, we'd have to kill all the animals that occupy the land that we use for raising farm animals so we could grow more crops to feed everyone.

I see what you're saying. Nut it's still a choice. We may be brought up to eat meat, but it's still a choice regardless.

Catsmokinpot wrote: »

Bull****, either way you have to break down the nutrients you require.. Cooking is a form of pre-digestion and we get all the nutrients we require from eating a balanced diet of both meat and vegetables. With a vegan diet you need supplements.

You don't need meat. You can replace the nutrients found in meat with other foods containing the same nutrients. Or a meat substitute.

I can't comment on the vegan diet, I am not vegan.

Catsmokinpot wrote: »

It's an ethical/environmental choice to farm Vegetables too you nincompoop
it would require the same amount of land, where do you think all the displaced animals would go? they would have to be killed, where would we put them all?

I don't think it's ethical or environmental to farm animals. methane emissions for starters. And the practice of institutionalising killing is barbaric.

Already answered that question. The whole world is not going to suddenly be vegetarian. If it does happen, it will be gradual and supply will be affected by demand.

Catsmokinpot wrote: »

The only thing I was conditioned to do was think for myself. The only thing this thread has proved is that there are some self righteous vegetarians that believe their **** doesn't stink like yourself.

Social conditioning occurs in all aspects of life. It's useful in societies for establishing and reinforcing postive behaviours and outlining negative behaviours.

You're trying to make it out that i'm some crackpot. I never bring up vegetarianism with people. I refer to myself as someone who doesn't eat meat. The onyl reason I replied here is because there waere one or two peopl having ago at vegetarians for no reason. How am I self righteous?

Catsmokinpot wrote: »

What set of arguments? you think that meat eaters aren't capable of critical thinking? I tried to be a vegetarian, I realised that we are one collective organism feeding off of itself and powered by the sun, so I went back to eating meat.

Never said meat eaters were not capable of critical thinking.

I'm not going to comment on your dietary choice, unless that's what you wanted? (in all seriousness)

nervous_twitch

Vegetarian for just under a decade now. Couldnt give a shite what the rest of ye are eating to be honest.

BickNarry

Catsmokinpot wrote: »

http://naturalhygienesociety.org/diet-veganbaby.html

If they had underfed the child, but were not vegan, would we blame the meat based diet?

It happens all the time, and we don't. Isolated incident.

And to the person

B12 is so important - and when its missing it can do some terrible damage.

I asked my doctor bout this. He said that because I ate meat for 17 years I would have more than enough to keep me going for the rest of my life.

Aoifey!

Been a vegetarian since I was 8, haven't looked back since.

OP, head over to the Vegetarian Forum if you need any help or advice, they're great over there .

Guy:Incognito

Violafy wrote: »

Correct. Most sausages are probably less than 50% meat,.

56% ish seems to be the norm for you standard sausage. I got a bit picky a few years back and the only ones in that bracket I eat are Denny gold medal if I have to cos for some reason they taste great. But right there on the shelf with all the 50odd % ones are 70% + sausage. There is plenty of choice even if you limit yourself to 80%.

Jesus Wept

Deus Ex Machina wrote: »

No, human beings are the only animals who've signed the social contract, so everything else is fair game on the being killed and eaten front.

I reckon the chickens would sign it if they were given the option.

henryporter wrote: »

No need for meat IMO - never felt under the weather, never really been sick, never felt like I was hungry after a meal - just normal really!

What do you eat?

Irishchick wrote: »

If an animal has its needs met during its life and is slaughtered humanley then im happy to eat it.


rant over.

How much do you know about the lives of the animals that you eat?
I know nothing. I buy it from shops.

PeakOutput wrote: »

I think you can be healthy without meat (very healthy in fact but not any healthier) but I would never become a vegetarian as there are no legitimate arguments for it as long as you are ethical in your sourcing of meat, which I am.

Where do you buy your meat?

Fishie wrote: »

I stopped eating meat at the end of February, and was surprised at how easy it was. I don't particularly miss it, I've just replaced meat with nuts in stir-fries and that sort of thing

That sounds seriously disgusting.

IHeartChemistry wrote: »

BUT, I dont agree with the animal cruelty in the farms. Its too horrific to watch. But as everyone says to me, the animals are gonna be killed either way. Not much we can do about it. So may as well eat the food being produced. I just wish they did it in a less horrible way.

Well that's kind of silly, if meat eating dropped by 15% overnight, then the number of animals farmed would drop also over time.

Violafy wrote: »

Correct. Most sausages are probably less than 50% meat, not to mention rubbish like chicken nuggets and whatever comes out of McDonalds.

McDonalds nuggets are now 100% chicken breast.

Eric Cartman wrote: »

luckily we dont live in the US or china then. The EU has pretty good H&S standards to do with food and this is not how its really done in europe, the quality of meat in the US is terrible because of their methods of factory farming and killing, the controls are a lot stricter over here and done in ways far kinder to the animal

How come we still have 3e chickens if our standards are so different?

Here is where I am at: I eat meat - lots of it, lot of chicken, medium amount of beef, etc.

But I was watching 'Food Inc' last night (think I saw it before) and seeing the chickens made me sad.
Now I'm all confused. :-/

Being a vegetarian would be a massive change for me, I only started eating some vegetables in the last few years and I hate fruit and nuts.

PeakOutput

The-Rigger wrote: »

Where do you buy your meat?

There is a good craft butcher near me that has great information on all its suppliers

edit: also as long as you are eating irish you can be fairly sure the animals were raised and slaughtered humanely

Gummy Panda

I'm probably going to cut back on the amount of meat I eat as the quality of some seems shít lately.

There is Japanese lunchtime take away I sometimes go to. The tofu curry there tastes better then the chicken or beef.

Witchie

I have been veggie for almost 22 years now. I grew up in a house where not much meat was eaten as mum didn't really like it and my dad was an athlete and found meat made him sluggish so it wasnt too difficult for me. the only thing i miss is bacon but would satisfy that craving with a packet of bacon flavoured crisps.

I dont wear leather. I don't eat gelatine and will check what stock is used in soups and sauces when out for dinner.

My biggest whinge when I go out for dinner is that most chefs will stuff ur food with mushrooms. Disgusting yokes. I dont like cooked carrots either so am a wee bit difficult. I am fairly easy to please otherwise.

On the fast food thing: I love bk spicy bean burger, I love the mc d veggie wrap and if like the other nite coming back from a match, the only option us kfc, i get corn on the cob, chips and beans. Yum.

My cholesterol levels are really low (3.2) and I am not anemic. I cook meat for my kids but if make pasta, or curries they dont have meat, I use chick peas, lentils or kidney beans. They have no prob with that.

My sister became veggie when she was 5 also so its very normal for us. She is now 20.

ScumLord

g_moriarty wrote: »

That's complete nonsense anyway, having a species entirely dependent on another is actually ridiculous and most certainly does not aid their survival.

Stupid ridiculous nature.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symbiosis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parasitism

We have screwed up species like cows and dogs so that if anything happens to humans, those species are also finished. How can you even argue something so ridiculous? Which species have better chance of survival now - wild lions, coyotes, ants, etc or the family dog?

Dogs have shown they're highly adaptable, I would guess they'd quickly breed themselves into a strong species again should we not be around. Most dogs where breed to be good killers they could get on without us but they could have more or less chosen to live with humans.

kelle

I was vegetarian for a few years, but everytime I went to a restaurant the one vegetarian option would be tomato-based and I got SO sick of tomatoes - so I went back to eating meat. Though i've never eaten much of it, only chicken and ham.

OP, there's no option for me on your poll!

Eric Cartman

The-Rigger wrote: »

How come we still have 3e chickens if our standards are so different?

supply and demand, we have far less people to feed and alot more meat available

Here is where I am at: I eat meat - lots of it, lot of chicken, medium amount of beef, etc.

But I was watching 'Food Inc' last night (think I saw it before) and seeing the chickens made me sad.
Now I'm all confused. :-/

Being a vegetarian would be a massive change for me, I only started eating some vegetables in the last few years and I hate fruit and nuts.

food inc is all based on the american system , those practises arent used here, as a veggie argument, look at their opinion on the likes of monsanto seeds

Gummy Panda

Eric Cartman wrote: »

supply and demand, we have far less people to feed and alot more meat available

Isn't it also Eu subsidies that allow us to keep a high quality level that normally wouldn't be economical for most farmers?

Shenshen

Deleted User wrote: »

Second point: Vegetarians are laughing in the face of every starving person in the world.

What, by leaving all the meat to be eaten by other people?
You've got an odd sense of humour.

Eric Cartman

Gummy Panda wrote: »

Isn't it also Eu subsidies that allow us to keep a high quality level that normally wouldn't be economical for most farmers?

yeah , mmust include that, its one of the good things the EU does

Jesus Wept

PeakOutput wrote: »

There is a good craft butcher near me that has great information on all its suppliers

edit: also as long as you are eating irish you can be fairly sure the animals were raised and slaughtered humanely

Eric Cartman wrote: »

supply and demand, we have far less people to feed and alot more meat available


food inc is all based on the american system , those practises arent used here, as a veggie argument, look at their opinion on the likes of monsanto seeds

Any idea how long are the chickens bred for here?
Actually, strangely what bothered me was they had some conveyor belt that masses of the chicks were going up head over heels and tumbling off at the top. :-/

Crow92

I became a vegetarian for lent, 46 days without meat really wasn't that hard, missed the texture and ease of cooking meat over having to prepare vegetarian meals.

Maybe that was because the mother didn't make my veg-meals as she had to feed the other brothers

Catsmokinpot

BickNarry wrote: »

Because of globalisation a new market has been opened that offer cheaper food but limited choice. This cheaper food is usually of a lower nutrition value.

Not necessarily cheaper, i eat very well for very little money. It just requires more effort to make your own food, so people choose get ready made crap out of laziness...

BickNarry wrote: »

Read what I said again. It was in reply to someone who said a vegetarian diet could not be healthier than a meat based diet. I was saying that a healthy vegetarian diet is probably healthier than your average meat based diet. Which I stick by.(Not that I'm a healthy vegetarian)

Fair enough, but you're both wrong, the healthiest meat based and the healthiest vegetable based diets are as healthy as each-other. we are omnivores. Like Bears and Dogs, our digestive system can cope with a variety of food quite easily.

BickNarry wrote: »

I'm not trivialising anything. Picking your favourite type of murder when it is uneccessary is not really picking anything at all.

The Holocaust was suffering on an unimaginable scale. Millions of animals being killed, suffering, and being sold for a couple of euro to then end up as feces is unimaginable to me also.

The Jews were not nearly exterminated for a few bucks, we don't want to exterminate chickens or cows, there's a difference. And, just because you believe it's unnecessary, doesn't make it unnecessary, from my point of view more vegetable/grain farming would the same amount of damage to wildlife, let alone the animals we are farming.

Cruelty to animals is not accepted by any sane person and we have laws in place to prevent these crimes of abuse.

Most of the animals we eat, eat fast growing plants like grass that we cannot digest, They can process these plants rather efficiently and we feed off of those animals.

We all end up as another plant's, animal's, bacteria's, fungus' waste product at the end of the day.

BickNarry wrote: »

Again, in response to someone who was harping on about vegetarians not being able to get protein.......

Fair enough, sorry, I didn't read the whole thread.

BickNarry wrote: »

I see what you're saying. Nut it's still a choice. We may be brought up to eat meat, but it's still a choice regardless.

It's not a choice, it's the way our bodies are designed. you want to eat a substitute? fair enough, you made a choice to make a substitute instead of eating what's already there.

BickNarry wrote: »

You don't need meat. You can replace the nutrients found in meat with other foods containing the same nutrients. Or a meat substitute.

OK I understand, so what do you think happens to all the animals that we stop eating? we let them run off and be free? what is free? being killed by some other predator? we would still use the land, so it wouldn't be there for wildlife to use it.

BickNarry wrote: »

I don't think it's ethical or environmental to farm animals. methane emissions for starters. And the practice of institutionalising killing is barbaric.

I'm not sure if our continued existence on this planet is environmental, but ethical? to kill animals for food? seriously?

I believe its institutionalised killing to kill tigers for their balls for Chinese medicine, but it's not to kill prey animals for food.

BickNarry wrote: »

Already answered that question. The whole world is not going to suddenly be vegetarian. If it does happen, it will be gradual and supply will be affected by demand.

So instead of dying all at once, they gradually all get killed.

BickNarry wrote: »

Social conditioning occurs in all aspects of life. It's useful in societies for establishing and reinforcing postive behaviours and outlining negative behaviours.

Go check out your teeth in the mirror, I'm pretty sure you have omnivores teeth, eating meat has nothing to do with conditioning, it's how your body designed itself.

BickNarry wrote: »

You're trying to make it out that i'm some crackpot. I never bring up vegetarianism with people. I refer to myself as someone who doesn't eat meat. The onyl reason I replied here is because there waere one or two peopl having ago at vegetarians for no reason. How am I self righteous?

No, I don't think you're a crackpot, I'm just trying to point out some of the fallacies of your argument, people know where meat comes from, some people can handle it, some people cant, it has nothing to do with conditioning.

Fair enough if you believe that you don't think an animal should die so that you can live, I respect that. I also believe in a perfect world that I would like to be able to live without killing an animal. If I had the choice, I would choose it. but whether you eat an animal or not, your existence on this planet is adversely effecting the environment and the animals living in it. So, by comparing eating animals to the holocaust, saying killing animals for food is unnatural, saying it's unhealthy and saying it's not environmentally friendly you seem a bit naive, and a bit hypocritical.

I agree with your points about Factory farming methods, but these are different issues that I already outlined in my previous post.

BickNarry wrote: »

Never said meat eaters were not capable of critical thinking.

No, you didn't say it but you implied it by saying it's socially conditioned into us.

BickNarry wrote: »

I'm not going to comment on your dietary choice, unless that's what you wanted? (in all seriousness)

I only mentioned it to you to show you that I had thought about being a vegetarian (even tried it) and decided I go back to eat meat. So you can comment if you want, I don't mind.

Eric Cartman

The-Rigger wrote: »

Any idea how long are the chickens bred for here?
Actually, strangely what bothered me was they had some conveyor belt that masses of the chicks were going up head over heels and tumbling off at the top. :-/

the time it takes the chicken to naturally grow, the growth hormones used in the US arent legal here, thats what causes the chickens to stumble and get sick. chickens are allowed to be grown in the ventilated sheds but the us has no legal requirment on minimum space for each of the chickens, the EU has a maximum broiler shed density of 33kg of chickens per square meter , the average weight of a fully grown chicken is around 5k so at max you dhave 6 chickens per square meter which is enough space for them to wander around and not overcrowded, these broiler sheds are required to be open or fully ventilated by fans

LC_x

i understand that meat is murder....

but it's delicious murder

Jesus Wept

Eric Cartman wrote: »

the time it takes the chicken to naturally grow, the growth hormones used in the US arent legal here, thats what causes the chickens to stumble and get sick. chickens are allowed to be grown in the ventilated sheds but the us has no legal requirment on minimum space for each of the chickens, the EU has a maximum broiler shed density of 33kg of chickens per square meter , the average weight of a fully grown chicken is around 5k so at max you dhave 6 chickens per square meter which is enough space for them to wander around and not overcrowded, these broiler sheds are required to be open or fully ventilated by fans

I can't remember ever seeing a 5kg chicken for sale in the supermarket, are most cut short at 1.5kg/2kg?

Just wondering how long they live for, naturally they live 8 - 10 years according to google.

Eric Cartman

The-Rigger wrote: »

I can't remember ever seeing a 5kg chicken for sale in the supermarket, are most cut short at 1.5kg/2kg?

Just wondering how long they live for, naturally they live 8 - 10 years according to google.

after you remove feathers, heads , necks, inards theyd easily become 2kg

i dont know of the grow regulations but its a few months, maybee 6 months or so

Violafy

Witchie wrote: »

On the fast food thing: I love bk spicy bean burger, I love the mc d veggie wrap and if like the other nite coming back from a match, the only option us kfc, i get corn on the cob, chips and beans. Yum.

I don't know if this is still happening as I never go to McDonalds, but they've been in trouble before because they were cooking their "veggie" burgers/wraps in the same oil as hamburgers and chicken. You seem like quite a strict vegetarian from your post, so thought I'd tell you. I wouldn't trust anything from there tbh.

ScumLord

Eric Cartman wrote: »

the time it takes the chicken to naturally grow, the growth hormones used in the US arent legal here, thats what causes the chickens to stumble and get sick. chickens are allowed to be grown in the ventilated sheds but the us has no legal requirment on minimum space for each of the chickens, the EU has a maximum broiler shed density of 33kg of chickens per square meter , the average weight of a fully grown chicken is around 5k so at max you dhave 6 chickens per square meter which is enough space for them to wander around and not overcrowded, these broiler sheds are required to be open or fully ventilated by fans

The conditions in Europe still aren't as good as they should be though. I live near a chicken farm and the birds don't look great compared to normal chickens.

PeterIanStaker

Nope, never, like meat far too much. I would consider eating a vegetarian if I managed to separate one from the herd.

Eric Cartman

ScumLord wrote: »

The conditions in Europe still aren't as good as they should be though. I live near a chicken farm and the birds don't look great compared to normal chickens.

i dont necissarily agree with broiler shed farming, i preffer freerange and the chicken does taste better but broiler is better than battery cages and in the world of broiler farming we have the most humane regulations in the world for it. my problem is the amount of vegetarians who became vegetarians based on propoganda videos by peta of terrible american or asian farms, if the videos were of irish free range and low density broiler farms and irish abitoirs im sure a lot less people would become veggy for the ethics reason

RichieC

Imagine not being able to have a fillet steak or a cheese burger! fkin hippies.. :rolleyes:

Coriolanus

I've been reading the End of Food, and yeah, it's started me thinking.

With the grain needed to raise a pound of beef, you could literally feed a family in sub Saharan Africa for a week.

I love meat, but in terms of human suffering, eating the amount of meat we do actually increases human suffering, simply through raising grain prices.

Crow92

Nevore wrote: »

I've been reading the End of Food, and yeah, it's started me thinking.

With the grain needed to raise a pound of beef, you could literally feed a family in sub Saharan Africa for a week.

I love meat, but in terms of human suffering, eating the amount of meat we do actually increases human suffering, simply through raising grain prices.

Actually in terms of meat production, it takes approximately 10,000 litres of water for ever 1kg of meat produced, shocking when you think of water conservation.

Abi

I'm veggie, but never bring it up unless its need-to-know. I don't care if other people eat meat, I don't scowl at other peoples food or lecture them, and I expect the same respect for my food. I do not make a big deal out of it, I'll have what everyone else is having, just with the meat removed from the plate - it's not that big of a deal.

I became veggie later in life, so I can see the appeal to eating it. I just chose to stop eating it.

Jesus Wept

Abi wrote: »

I'm veggie, but never bring it up unless its need-to-know. I don't care if other people eat meat, I don't scowl at other peoples food or lecture them, and I expect the same respect for my food. I do not make a big deal out of it, I'll have what everyone else is having, just with the meat removed from the plate - it's not that big of a deal.

I became veggie later in life, so I can see the appeal to eating it. I just chose to stop eating it.

srysly, why the attitude?!

Capt'n Midnight

shannon_tek wrote: »

This tread has killed me. i need meat now. but look thankfully they will reproduces more animals. i rely heavily on meat. cause well spuds are great and everything. but they have to be perfect. other wise i would starve. i like animals bar cows cause they scare the bejaysus out of me. so yes im all in favour of meat. now time to go to the kitchen. cant wait for dinner tomoro.

Troy: Gettin hungry Jimmy?
Jimmy: Uhh, Mr. McClure? I have a crazy friend who says its wrong
to eat meat. Is he crazy?
Troy: Nooo, just ignorant. You see your crazy friend never heard
of "The Food Chain". [Flash to a picture of "Food Chain",
with all animals and arrows pointing to a silhouette of a
human.] Just ask this scientician.
Scientician: [Looking up from a microscope.] Uhhh...
Troy: He'll tell you that, in nature, one creature invariably
eats another creature to survive.
[Images of various wild carnivores attacking and eating
others appear.]
Don't kid yourself Jimmy. If a cow ever got the chance,
he'd eat you and everyone you care about! [Image of a cow
quietly chewing cud.]
Jimmy: Wow, Mr. McClure. I was a grade A moron to ever question
eating meat.
Troy: [Laughs.] Yes you were Jimmy, yes you were. [Briskly rubs
his hand on Jimmy's head.]
Jimmy: [Timid] Uhh...you're hurting me.

Capt'n Midnight

ScumLord wrote: »

Dogs have shown they're highly adaptable, I would guess they'd quickly breed themselves into a strong species again should we not be around. Most dogs where breed to be good killers they could get on without us but they could have more or less chosen to live with humans.

Packs of domesticated dogs don't survive long in the wild without humans

cats on the other hand have no problems surviving when going feral.

ScumLord

The problem with dogs may be that they have no hierarchy, they don't need one while we're looking out for them.. If there where no humans around that may change, I think in one of those life after human shows they reckoned that the trained military and police dogs would have what it takes to survive. I don't know why they picked them as I would have thought they were to specialised to be any good in the wild.

Nevore wrote: »

I've been reading the End of Food, and yeah, it's started me thinking.

With the grain needed to raise a pound of beef, you could literally feed a family in sub Saharan Africa for a week.

I love meat, but in terms of human suffering, eating the amount of meat we do actually increases human suffering, simply through raising grain prices.

That's what happens when they try to raise cattle in some environment that can't really support them. Irish cattle are grass feed (with some supplemental feeding) and live here very naturally.

Irish beef and mutton is the most humanly raised and most organic meet you can get. They spend their lives eating and sleeping in the great outdoors, they have all the space they need and look fairly content to me from what I can see of them lying around chewing grass outside my window.

PeakOutput

Nevore wrote: »

I've been reading the End of Food, and yeah, it's started me thinking.

With the grain needed to raise a pound of beef, you could literally feed a family in sub Saharan Africa for a week.

I love meat, but in terms of human suffering, eating the amount of meat we do actually increases human suffering, simply through raising grain prices.

Again this is american information, our beef is grass fed afaik there is a MASSIVE difference

Shenshen

PeakOutput wrote: »

Again this is american information, our beef is grass fed afaik there is a MASSIVE difference

That's certainly true today.
But as far as I know, Ireland's population is growing. As is the population of the world in general. Which increases the demand for meat.
How long will it be before farmers run out of enough grass to feed their cows year-round?