A Man Hit My Dog In The Face With A Hurley

volvick

catchup wrote: »

Horrible and no one can excuse what the man did.

BUT look at it from another point of view.... you were not in control of your dog. What if there was a 3 year old child near the other dog? Would the man have been justified if he felt your dog was a threat to his child?

Nor was the person who hit this dog. I always have control of my dog when out and to hit a dog who just wanted to play is horrible

Virtually Solid

boomerang wrote: »

It's not actually, one thing you should never do is smack a dog on the nose or tap them on the nose with a newspaper. The anatomy of the nose is very delicate. Plus if something's ever hit you in the nose (like a dog jumping up at you for example) you'll know how bloody sore it is compared to a smack on the bum!

I have trained 4 terriers, 3 hunting dogs and 2 king charles the same way, I guess its old fashioned to give a tip on the noise and yes maybe stick dogs nose in wee etc -

All my dogs have been trained to be outdoor dogs 24/7 & if they wee in the house as a pup they were corrected.

The above method was practiced for years and years without dispute but now cause of the wrapped in cotton wool generation carrying around their dogs in handbags...

I ask you.............. I bet if my dogs ran up the beach off their leash after a ball or another dog and i shouted at him to sit or come back he would do so without any hesitation and he would wag his tails as I praised him for doing this....

Call me old fashioned but methods differ...

ISDW

Virtually Solid wrote: »

I have trained 4 terriers, 3 hunting dogs and 2 king charles the same way, I guess its old fashioned to give a tip on the noise and yes maybe stick dogs nose in wee etc -

All my dogs have been trained to be outdoor dogs 24/7 & if they wee in the house as a pup they were corrected.

The above method was practiced for years and years without dispute but now cause of the wrapped in cotton wool generation carrying around their dogs in handbags...

I ask you.............. I bet if my dogs ran up the beach off their leash after a ball or another dog and i shouted at him to sit or come back he would do so without any hesitation and he would wag his tails as I praised him for doing this....

Call me old fashioned but methods differ...

A lot of things were practiced for years without dispute, doesn't mean they're right though. Yes, times have moved on, but thats more to do with people understanding dog biology than anyone wanting to carry a dog around in a handbag. I can honestly say, hand on heart, that I have never put a dog in a handbag (none of mine would fit anyway) but I also won't hit a dog on the nose, or rub their noses in wee. My dogs are working dogs, not a child substitute or any nonsense like that, but why would I want to take a chance on ruining their sense of smell?

Vanbis

Regardless if the OP was right or wrong on the beach with her dog and without a lead that fool had no right to hit her dog and especially with a hurley. If that was me id punched him without a thought.

I hope the OP and her dog are ok.

Cú Giobach

There is a fair chance the hurley wielding psyco gave his dogs a few smacks on the nose (probably a few kicks also) and consequently has/had dogs that are quite aggressive (aggression breeds aggression) hence another dog biting his dog and resulting in the OP's "experience".

Discodog

OP the first thing that you need to do is identify the man. If I were in your shoes I would keep going back in the hope of seeing him & get a registration number. In the meantime go to the Guards & make a formal complaint in writing as you may need this later. If the Guards refuse to log your complaint then insist of speaking to a senior officer.

You might feel inclined to mention that the man approached you, hurley in hand & that you felt threatened.

There are two areas of redress. The first is that I would seek a prosecution for animal cruelty. His actions clearly contravene the 1911 Protection of Animals Act. As well as the Guards I would make a formal , detailed complaint to the ISPCA or DSPCA including a full description of the man. Secondly I would be considering suing him for the Vet bills & the distress caused. Take photographs of the injuries & keep all bills.

Lots of people here have commented on who was at fault, whether the dog was under control etc but none of this justifies injuring a totally innocent dog.

Vanbis

Great advice, hopefully OP follows this.

Lucyx

Virtually Solid wrote: »

Call me old fashioned...

You're old fashioned.

Lucyx

Discodog wrote: »

OP the first thing that you need to do is identify the man. If I were in your shoes I would keep going back in the hope of seeing him & get a registration number. In the meantime go to the Guards & make a formal complaint in writing as you may need this later. If the Guards refuse to log your complaint then insist of speaking to a senior officer.

You might feel inclined to mention that the man approached you, hurley in hand & that you felt threatened.

There are two areas of redress. The first is that I would seek a prosecution for animal cruelty. His actions clearly contravene the 1911 Protection of Animals Act. As well as the Guards I would make a formal , detailed complaint to the ISPCA or DSPCA including a full description of the man. Secondly I would be considering suing him for the Vet bills & the distress caused. Take photographs of the injuries & keep all bills.

Lots of people here have commented on who was at fault, whether the dog was under control etc but none of this justifies injuring a totally innocent dog.

Thanks for that. I'll definitely do this. I just hope I see him again. The more i think of what he did, I feel sick by it. As a major dog lover, this has been devastating to me.

I'm not up to speed on these things so that post is so helpful. Thank you.

Discodog

One other thing if you see his car & he is not close by, get his insurance details off of the windscreen disc as it may help in tracing him. A photo of him would also be really useful.

You must file accurate reports with the Guards & ISPCA/DSPCA incase he does it again which, given the number of dogs running around, is quite possible.

If you were really determined & discrete you could follow him back to his home address.

Aru

I doubt the Guards would take it seriously though..its a civil matter.

Plus it was your dog who ran up to a stranger..
All he has to say was he was afraid it was aggressive and he acted in self defence and the OP will be in trouble for having a "out of control dog" under the control of dogs act...

Hope your dog is ok and that she recovers well.
Dogs are hardy creatures and dont have the same memory recall for these things so hopefully she will be fine.

But i would recommend you be more careful in future OP.If your dog is loose and isn't reliable to recall you should not let her off the lead.
Not everyone is animal friendly and not all dogs will take kindly to strange ones approaching.

mal1

OP, put this experience into perspective and please take into consideration pass experiences that this guy may have had with other uncontrolled dogs.

My brother had two beautiful Maltese terriers this morning. He has only one this evening. One of poor guys was mauled to death in a Dublin city centre park today by two bigger dogs that were off the leash. Devastating and bloody stuff. So I have little sympathy for you. Control your dog. He deserves better and you should look after him.

I also hate this excuse of 'I put him on a leash when kids are around'. Does this mean that you don't consider the safety of all the rest of us (other dogs included)???

Lucyx

mal1 wrote: »

OP, put this experience into perspective and please take into consideration pass experiences that this guy may have had with other uncontrolled dogs.

My brother had two beautiful Maltese terriers this morning. He has only one this evening. One of poor guys was mauled to death in a Dublin city centre park today by two bigger dogs that were off the leash. Devastating and bloody stuff. So I have little sympathy for you. Control your dog. He deserves better and you should look after him.

I also hate this excuse of 'I put him on a leash when kids are around'. Does this mean that you don't consider the safety of all the rest of us (other dogs included)???

Thats so awful and an absolute nightmare. I'm so sorry that happened and its a really horrendous death. I'd never get over that.

At this point I know that people just skim the thread but I did say that I am respectful towards other people (not just kids) and don't just let my dog wander around the place and obviously now that this has happened I'll be extra extra careful.

I'll never let this happen again.

Thanks Aru. I think she is doing well. The tail is wagging so thats pretty good but I've to go to our own vet tomorrow to have another check into the eyes and around the head to make sure things are ok there

boomerang

Virtually Solid wrote: »

I have trained 4 terriers, 3 hunting dogs and 2 king charles the same way, I guess its old fashioned to give a tip on the noise and yes maybe stick dogs nose in wee etc -

All my dogs have been trained to be outdoor dogs 24/7 & if they wee in the house as a pup they were corrected.

The above method was practiced for years and years without dispute but now cause of the wrapped in cotton wool generation carrying around their dogs in handbags...


Call me old fashioned but methods differ...

I have a Border Collie and a German Shepherd x sheepdog - not exactly handbag dogs. Both are toilet trained, sit, lie down, wait, retrieve, have excellent recall, enjoy agility and I have never had to lay a hand on either of them.

Reminds of me of the maxim "We did what we did until we knew better, and when we knew better, we did better."

No need at all to physically correct a dog, or to shove it's nose in it's own dirt. We now have methods that are kinder, fairer and more effective.

Augmerson

Dogs should be kept on a leash unless it's your land.

ISDW

Augmerson wrote: »

Dogs should be kept on a leash unless it's your land.

Why?

Chris_Heilong

Yeah it seems like a lot of skimming has taken place with people getting information wrong but that tends to happen.

Man should not have hit your dog, this is the most important thing.

I found the debate about on lead off lead very interesting. I dont let my dog off lead, I would love to but I know he would just run over to other dogs to sniff and say hello but you never know when the dog he runs over to will be aggressive or not or even if the owner will understand whats happening, usually pups under a year old are fine with each other, I have met people in the park that have their Labs, Golden retrievers, king Charles, Westie, you name it off lead and for every 10 that approach 2 are usually aggressive and I have to step inbetween them until their owner comes along and pulls them away. Dogs will be dogs is not something I totally agree with and I think they should be molded and taught to be the dog we want them to be.

TooManyDogs

Lucyx your poor dog, I hope she's doing ok. That man behaved dreadfully. I do think the advise of not allowing your girl approach other dogs if you don't know them is good advise though, its not a reflection on you or your dog but simply because unknown dogs/people/children etc are an unknown risk.

My sisters collie was attacked and nearly mauled to death by 2 bullmastiffs, the vet said it was a miracle he lived and it took him 3 months to heal. I did a lot of work with her to try and get her back to walking her dog because she was so scared. She would start to shake if another dog came into sight and start crying if they started to approach her dog. But her husband in his fear for his dog would react with anger to dogs approaching his dog, lots of shouting at the owners and on one occasion when a known aggressive dog approached his dog he kicked it and when the owner went to punch him he got in first. Again, I'm not saying this was appropriate behaviour. Different people react differently to different stresses, and past incidents are part of the unknown risk.

Now I'm not justifying for a second that man smacking your dog with a hurley, I'd follow Discodogs advise too and go to the guards, but if his dog was attacked by another dog it could simply be an over reaction to seeing your dog running towards his dog and him thinking it was an attack. I'm not saying it was the case, but if that was what he thought was happening because he was reacting with fear then that could explain why he behaved as badly as he did.

Seeing people's reactions to other dogs or people approaching their dogs is one of the reasons that I never let mine approach anyone or anything unless I know the dogs/people. There's just too much history if peoples lives to guarantee anything.

Discodog

Aru wrote: »

I doubt the Guards would take it seriously though..its a civil matter.

1911 Protection of Animals Act makes it a criminal offence to "cruelly beat an animal".

In this case the injuries to the dog would more than establish cruelty. It is a criminal matter & it drives me nuts that people keep posting that law does not exist to protect animals.

One might even argue that the man was in possession of an offensive weapon. A hurley is fine on a sports field but would be regarded differently on a Saturday night in the high street. It was clearly used as an offensive weapon in this case.

I constantly voice the maxim of dogs being under control but this is about cruelty & not the background of how the dog got into the situation. The danger with such posts is that it undermines the cruelty & could make the OP feel that she was to blame for the dog getting hit.

I am amazed that animal lovers are more concerned about the on lead/off lead argument than the fact that there is a guy out there who thinks it acceptable to hit a dog with a hurley.

_LilyRose_

You should definately get the gardai involved..even if he never gets prosecuted it might scare him and hopefully save another dog from this kind of attack...can't believe a dog owner would do such a thing..hope you're dog's okay

john t

Wow i dont know how u restrained urself.. hope ur dog gets over it with lots of attention and walks elsewhere until u feel she ok too go back too beach. But like u y my dog is younfg n playful/ 18month old black german shepard who in first 5mins off lead and see`s dog goes too investicate or play as dogs do. Any human being hurt my dog would b hurt by me... If any dog hurt her its her lesson too learn. But kick or use weapon too shoo friendly wagging tailed dog then u answer too owner and my shheeba`s owner would inflict same pain too perpetruter..

The Sweeper

Lucyx wrote: »

We were walking by, his dog was running at speed to get the ball and my dog ran alongside him (the other dog I mean, I don't like referring to dogs as 'it') and she would have come back to me literally seconds later. But the guy was obviously all fcked up from the experience with the other dog that had bitten his dog. Nothing to do with me.

I don't do any of what you're describing. I'd never let my dog off leash like that willy nilly. I love her and I want to keep her with me, not ramble miles away from me.

Sorry - wasn't giving examples and accusing you of doing that, was just giving general examples! I completely accept that yer man totally over-reacted and it was totally unjustifiable and I'm absolutely not trying to say this is your fault.

jamesd

I was out walking saturday with my Akita on a lead as normal and met another man coming down the road with his terrier off the lead so I stopped on the road for him to put his dog onto the lead but he didnt and kept coming towards us, next thing his terrier came fowarding snarling and barking to get the Akita.

I roared at the man to grab the terrier but the terrier wasent listening so I ended up having to draw a kick and kick the terrier away - was this wrong?

This guy had no control over his dog and he was going to bite me or my dog so I felt right in kicking out.

ninja 12

Lucyx wrote:

I was walking my dog on the beach today and another dog was playing fetch with his owner and my dog gets excited when she sees another dog running around so she ran over and the owner smacked my dog in the face with the hurley he was using to play fetch. I was absolutely horrified and ran over and got very upset but the owner was totally unaffected and felt no remorse whatsoever.

OP , (Lucyx)

You were not in control of your dog , if you allowed it to run up " excitedly " to a random person on the beach while he was minding his own business , regardless of whether or not he had a dog with him .

You say his dog was playing fetch with him , I read this as saying that his was taking no notice of you or your dog , until your dog ran over to him .


You say your dog is a collie cross , the only dog I've been bitten by was a Rough Collie , when I was about 6 or 7 .

Just because you say it's a nice dog doesn't mean it can't be nasty with other people / dogs , or that people haven't had a bad experience with that breed in the past .

catchup wrote:

Horrible and no one can excuse what the man did.

BUT look at it from another point of view.... you were not in control of your dog.

volvick wrote: »

Nor was the person who hit this dog. I always have control of my dog when out and to hit a dog who just wanted to play is horrible

Vanbis wrote: »

Regardless if the OP was right or wrong on the beach with her dog and without a lead that fool had no right to hit her dog and especially with a hurley. If that was me id punched him without a thought.

I hope the OP and her dog are ok.

If I was that man , out for a walk / playing with my dog and a strange dog ran " excitedly " at me or my dog , I would be prepared to defend myself and my dog with all means necessary .

I have had experience of this , when my dog was only 5 months old a Golden Retriever went for her , and she hasn't forgotten .

There is no excuse for allowing your dog to run up to people uninvited .
As a dog owner , you are legaly obliged to ensure your dog is under control at all times .

mal1 wrote: »

OP, put this experience into perspective and please take into consideration pass experiences that this guy may have had with other uncontrolled dogs.

My brother had two beautiful Maltese terriers this morning. He has only one this evening. One of poor guys was mauled to death in a Dublin city centre park today by two bigger dogs that were off the leash. Devastating and bloody stuff. So I have little sympathy for you. Control your dog. He deserves better and you should look after him.

I also hate this excuse of 'I put him on a leash when kids are around'. Does this mean that you don't consider the safety of all the rest of us (other dogs included)???

@ mal1 ,
are you referring to this thread ? - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056256242

Scum of the highest order . I hope the are caught soon , before a child / more dogs are injured .


@ mal1 , I've highlighted in bold your last sentance .
Like you , I hate that attitude .

If I'm alone on the beach with my dog , she is let off the lead , so she can have a good run , swim etc.

If there is someone else on the beach , she stays on the lead ( for her safety ) . She does not run at people , and returns to me instantly to the whistle - this was the first thing she was taught as a pup .

It really annoys me when out for a walk , say in a woods , and there are signs every saying " All dogs must be kept on a lead " , and I'm the only one with a lead on my dog .
Everyone else has their dog running around , and annoying other people / dogs .

ninja 12

jamesd wrote: »

I was out walking saturday with my Akita on a lead as normal and met another man coming down the road with his terrier off the lead so I stopped on the road for him to put his dog onto the lead but he didnt and kept coming towards us, next thing his terrier came fowarding snarling and barking to get the Akita.

I roared at the man to grab the terrier but the terrier wasent listening so I ended up having to draw a kick and kick the terrier away - was this wrong?

This guy had no control over his dog and he was going to bite me or my dog so I felt right in kicking out.

You did the right thing.

seamus

jamesd wrote: »

I roared at the man to grab the terrier but the terrier wasent listening so I ended up having to draw a kick and kick the terrier away - was this wrong?

It's impossible for anyone to say without knowing the situation.

In general, unless you are very sure that an attack is imminent, then using any kind of physical force such as a kick or a smack with a hurley is completely the wrong thing to do.

Dogs snarling and barking, well if they're small enough I tend to let them at it unless they actually go for my dog. It's only happened once and simply pulling my dog back behind me tends to defuse it. It's never happened with a larger dog to me, so I'm not entirely sure what I would do. My instinct would be to let my dog go and grab the other dog's collar. Situation dependent though. My wife walks our dog and her trying to take control of a Lab or St. Bernard would probably not be the brightest idea.

I wouldn't be entirely concerned about anything smaller than a lab coming towards us, in fact I'd be a little more concerned for the welfare of the other dog if anything.

Maybe it's me, maybe it's my dog, maybe it's because I'm in a suburban area. I can count on one hand the number of times an off-lead dog has come over to me or my dog. As I mentioned, it's once happened that a dog was barking and growling, and in that instance an uncharacteristically zen-like calm came over my dog and she simply walked over and stood beside me while the other dog's owner ran over (who, to be fair, was in the middle of trying to train recall in a semi-closed field).

So while I don't doubt that serious incidents do occur, it would seem to me that a lot of people seriously overreact to other dogs approaching theirs. Throwing a kick or swinging a hurley are last resort methods generally only necessary when a fight has actually broken out or there's a serious size/weight difference between the two dogs and a fight imminent.

phil1nj

ninja 12 wrote: »

OP , (Lucyx)


There is no excuse for allowing your dog to run up to people uninvited .
As a dog owner , you are legaly obliged to ensure your dog is under control at all times .


If I'm alone on the beach with my dog , she is let off the lead , so she can have a good run , swim etc.

.

So when you dog is off the lead she is under control then (as per the law you quote)? Are am I missing something here?


I've been following this thread mainly because a similar thing happened to my dog about 6 months back (he was off the lead in a wide open area when another dog owner appeared over the hill with two dogs, both of which were off the lead. My dog went over to say hello (as dogs, especially pups, are known to do) and got a kick for his troubles from the other dogs' owner. Words were exchanged between myself and the other guy on the subject as I thought he was right out of order. He claimed he wasn't and tried to take the moral high ground saying that his dogs were "under control" i.e. did not approach my dog first. No lead was visible though so I'm inclined to think he was talking ****e.

Now before others start getting all self righteous on the subject (because there has been a lot of that in this thread) I keep my dog on a lead most of the time, I also let him run around and have a play when I think it's safe to do so (I live near the curragh so there are a lot of potential risks when out walking - horses, sheep, other walkers, runners, cyclists etc). If any of these appear in the distance, then he goes back on the lead until it's safe to let him off the lead again. I've been caught unawares a couple of times but the most that's happened has been a few words exchanged (and the kicking incident mentioned above). The flip side of this is that I've also been on the receiving end of a few dogs coming up to us with no owner in sight and I've always put it down to dogs being dogs. I'd like to think that I would have the common sense to judge a situation and determine what course of action to take should the other dog(s) get out of hand.

Anyway, that's my story.

ninja 12

phil1nj wrote: »

So when you dog is off the lead she is under control then (as per the law you quote)? Are am I missing something here?

I only let her off the lead if the beach is empty ( it usually is , it's fairly isolated ) .

If there is somebony else on the beach , she stays on the lead , one of the long retractable ones .

If she's loose on the beach and some arrives on it , she gets put back on the lead .



Being under control means having the ability to command a dog to return instantly , and not have it run amok , charging at people or livestock . Common sense , basically .

phil1nj

ninja 12 wrote: »

Being under control means having the ability to command a dog to return instantly , and not have it run amok , charging at people or livestock . Common sense , basically .

So a dog can be off a lead and under control at the same time then? Grand, that's cleared that up. So all this talk about needing to have a dog on a lead at all times is complete bollox then? Once it comes back to you when called you're covered, from a legal stand point.

As far as I'm concerned if a dog is running amok and causing problems (being agressive, behaing wildly etc) then of course it should be on a lead at all times. The owners should also get a bollicking if the dog does something stupid whilst off the lead.

Once a dog is let off the lead there is always a chance, despite what some owners say, that a dog may do something unpredictable no matter how under control they claim it to be.

I still don't agree with anyone hitting a dog (their own or someone else's) unless there is a damn good reason for it.

ninja 12

phil1nj wrote: »

So a dog can be off a lead and under control at the same time then?

Yes , in the right scenario , eg. a working dog - a collie rounding sheep , or a gundog working a field ,etc.

A properly trained dog doing what it's bred for / trained to do .

phil1nj wrote: »

Grand, that's cleared that up. So all this talk about needing to have a dog on a lead at all times is complete bollox then? Once it comes back to you when called you're covered, from a legal stand point.

I never said that .

The average pet dog wouldn't be as disciplined off the lead as the examples I mentioned above .