Georges St Pierre

scudzilla

So what's everybody's opinions on GSP now?

I lost patience with the guy some time ago, it seems now he goes into a fight not to win, just not to lose, he really is boring the crap outta me.

His last 6 fights he's failed to finish, i'm counting the BJ fight as a failed to finish as that was a doctor stoppage and i doubt he'd have risked trying a finish in the last round.

The amount of times he's dropped someone and failed to pounce, just waits till they get up again.

He used to be so exciting, and wants to go down as a legend, legends to me are fighters who leave it all in the ring, guys like Chuck & Wandy, who will go in and look to finish a fight.

IMO this all started when he was KO'd by Serra.

What's next for him? The only possible fight i can see is Diaz, and i reckon at this moment in time Diaz would take him

riffmongous

I went to bed just before his fight last night and felt pretty vindicated this morning when I read about it.

I try not to hate him since its up to him to fight whatever way he wants and if he is only interested in winning safe then good for him. But I have no interest in ever seeing him fight again, infact the only person I ever want to see him matched against is Fitch so that they are only wasting one fight instead of 2.

Mellor

scudzilla wrote: »

His last 6 fights he's failed to finish, i'm counting the BJ fight as a failed to finish as that was a doctor stoppage and i doubt he'd have risked trying a finish in the last round.

The BJ fight wasn't a doctor stoppage.

He's a smart fighter, he was never going to go to the ground with Shields, he had a game plan and stuck to it. fight your best fight, not the best looking fight

Pride Fighter

He's gone a bit boring, but is still one of the greatest of all time. I think he'll take Nick Diaz, which is the only fight left for him at 170. If he goes up to 185 we'll see the GSP of old. He'll have no other choice if he was to fight A. Silva.

scudzilla

Mellor wrote: »

The BJ fight wasn't a doctor stoppage.

He's a smart fighter, he was never going to go to the ground with Shields, he had a game plan and stuck to it. fight your best fight, not the best looking fight

Sure it was a doctor stoppage

Mellor

I was pretty sure that it was corner stoppage, as in BJ/his corner chose not to continue

scudzilla

Mellor wrote: »

I was pretty sure that it was corner stoppage, as in BJ/his corner chose not to continue

Splittin hairs here, either way, was another fight Georgie didn't/couldn't finish.

Quite a few of my mates, who are BIG GSP fans are even coming round to my way of thinking, at times i think GSP mistakes his fights for Karate tournaments rather than MMA

Mellor

I'd consider BJ not coming back out as GSP finishing (I would also for a doctor stoppage)

But I do see your point.
On the other hand betting on GSP to win by decision is like printing money

GSP's problem is killer instinct. He doesnt have it. There were openings when he hurt shields to go in and finish or hurt him more, but he stepped back out behind the jab.
My eyes were closing in the last round, that should not be happening.

Your right in a way mellor about winning the fight. But GSP wants a legacy, and he doesnt want to be remembered as a boring fighter I dont think. I reckon if not for the eye, he would be getting some stick from Dana for that fight.

rivalius13

Cover one eye, try hitting a target, now imagine that target is moving and trying to hit back, pretty hard, right?

seadnamac

BJ didn't want to come out for the last round. That's about as finished as you can get.

He couldn't see out of one eye for three rounds of the fight. For him to have done anything else then stick to what was comfortably winning him the fight would have been madness. This will be ignored obviously by those who want to push the same old srgument.

We've seen GSP give absolute clinincs in the ground game in certain fights and then change it all up with absolute clinics in stand up (Koscheck fight). I never found any of this boring.

How come his opponents never get any criticism for being so ineffective? Shields knew he needed a stoppage to win the fight in the last round and he still didn't do anything.

El Guapo!

I like GSP. Fair enough he's not the most exciting fighter but he's prob one of the most intelligent fighters in MMA today.
He's constantly re-inventing himself and changes his came to neutralise his opponents strengths. And you have to hand it to him.....it works.
And to be fair, he couldn't see a thing out of one eye since the 2nd round so to risk an all out attack with one eye would've been suicide.
He even apologised to the fans after the fight fo it not living up to the hype. I think he wanted to put on a show for the fans in his hometown.
At the end of the day while the fight isn't going down as a classic, he still went out against one of the best fighters in the world and beat him convincingly. With one eye.

There's no doubt GSP is a fantastic fighter. Arguably the best p4p, and there's no doubt he's the definition of a Mixed Martial artist. But it's almost like he has no base style anymore, he just negates his opponents strengths, making for a boring fight.

As Dana always says "Styles make fights" GSP's "Style" never makes a fight. He gets an awful lot of criticism for it but the thing is that he's trying to preserve himself for the twilight of his career. GSP is 29, the usual peak age for an MMA fighter is around 30 right? If anyone's cared to notice GSP has taken minimal damage in those 9 fights since the Serra fight.

Sure everyone loves a fighter such as Chuck Liddell that goes out and stands toe to toe with everyone and gets the win anyway but the reality of it is that Chuck wowed the crowd but is permanently damaged because of it. Chuck made a huge legacy and is probably one of the most loved fighters ever.
GSP is taking no damage so he can remain dominant for a looooong time.

I can't see him losing at WW for a long time. There's no threats to him, no legit contenders. Diaz hasn't fought a decent wrestler in ages and GSP knows that's where he needs to take the fight because Diaz has great standup. So the only decent contenders GSP can get are at Middleweight, but there's a nice chance that most of them have the size advantage to beat him there. He's 5' 10'', the tallest guys he's fought are Jason Miller and Fitch. But MW fighters as big as Yushin Okami, Brian Stann, Alan Belcher, CB.Dolloway and Mark Munoz. They're all too big for GSP imo.

When GSP retires. He'll have a nice job with the UFC as Canada's most loved fighter (Bringing the last two gate records) and he'll also be healthy at the same time. Win win for Georges but see if he cares what you think of his fights when he's getting drowned in money by Dana.

Ian Whelan

He must fight Nick Diaz. If he beats him then he is the best welterweight in the world, simple as that.

seadnamac

Ian Whelan wrote: »

He must fight Nick Diaz. If he beats him then he is the best welterweight in the world, simple as that.

Are you actually suggesting that he isn't already the best welterweight in the world?

Oh boy...

Richy06

It takes two to make a good fight. Shield's performance was a bad one. His striking did enough to frustrate St. Pierre and his poke to the eye stopped the final rounds being anything like exciting. He shot for a takedown once or twice and was easily stopped.

Sure, GSP didn't look like he was ever going to break out of second gear, but that was impressive enough as it was. If anyone thinks Diaz is going to beat St. Pierre, they are mental. He'll give a better account of himself than Shields did, but GSP will wrestle his was to victory.

I see no reason to believe that anyone currently fighting in the welterweight division has anything for GSP at this moment in time.

scudzilla

He's the best in the world, albeit the best in the weakest weight class, he's also the most 'boring' best of weight in the world. That was my point

scudzilla

scudzilla wrote: »

He's the best in the world, albeit the best in the weakest weight class, he's also the most 'boring' best of weight in the world. That was my point

Weakest weightclass?
I think Welterweight is the second most competitive, first being lightweight. You have Koscheck, Alves, Fitch, Rumble, BJ, Shields, Kampmann, Sanchez. Some of the most talented fighters in the world.

seadnamac

scudzilla wrote: »

He's the best in the world, albeit the best in the weakest weight class, he's also the most 'boring' best of weight in the world. That was my point

Yea, you think he's boring, we get it. Some of us just don't agree with you.

Also, Welterweight is by no means the weakest weight class, GSP just makes it look that way.

That_Guy

He knows how to win fights but it's fairly boring watching him do it. The Koscheck fight wasn't great and this one against Shields wasn't that fascinating either.

He's got a good game plan it seems and sticks to it religiously. Intelligent fighter but I'd hope he moves up a weight class because there doesn't seem to be really anybody left.

Rory McDonald looks a good prospect but probably too soon to go up against him.

seadnamac

Deleted User wrote: »

Weakest weightclass?
I think Welterweight is the second most competitive, first being lightweight. You have Koscheck, Alves, Fitch, Rumble, BJ, Shields, Kampmann, Sanchez. Some of the most talented fighters in the world.

Which makes his absolute dominance all the more incredible.

Richy06

An interesting take on the whole loss of an eye for 3 rounds thing...

http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2011/5/1/2146974/ufc-129-a-unique-perspecitve-on-st-pierres-performance

That_Guy

That_Guy wrote: »

Rory McDonald looks a good prospect but probably too soon to go up against him.

I'm not trying to make any allegations here or anything but Rory Macdonald didn't have that much acne for the Condit fight. I know acne is common for ~20 year olds but that was a lot of it. So I'll wait for the lab results to start touting the guy as a prospect. He put in a fantastic performance last night though.

cowzerp

Richy06 wrote: »

An interesting take on the whole loss of an eye for 3 rounds thing...

http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2011/5/1/2146974/ufc-129-a-unique-perspecitve-on-st-pierres-performance

So has he had eye injurys the last 5-6 fights!!

The article makes sense but fact is he is a safety 1st type fighter.

1 of the modern greats no doubt but still.

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm not trying to make any allegations here or anything but Rory Macdonald didn't have that much acne for the Condit fight. I know acne is common for ~20 year olds but that was a lot of it. So I'll wait for the lab results to start touting the guy as a prospect. He put in a fantastic performance last night though.

I actually thought about that myself been honest.

but as we all know we cant talk about the subject without facts so we'll leave it there..

Richy06

I don't deny that at all. I'm not defending GSP, nor am I a GSP nuthugger. I just thought it was an interesting take on it. When Jake Shields outstrikes GSP in a 5 round fight, there's more going on than just his play safe way of fighting.

cowzerp

Richy06 wrote: »

I don't deny that at all. I'm not defending GSP, nor am I a GSP nuthugger. I just thought it was an interesting take on it. When Jake Shields outstrikes GSP in a 5 round fight, there's more going on than just his play safe way of fighting.

He did'nt out strike GSP!
Otherwise he would of won the fight!!

Richy06

Sorry, I should have clarified.

According to compustrike he actually outlanded GSP in total strikes landed. GSP edged him with power shots though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEDAHzU5sr4

Top rated comment was classic.
"Seagal thought him that poke"

Richy06

Most likely Chuck did. Old Kenpo Karate trick apparently that he broke out when fighting Couture.

Xlami

I know he far more popular but no one ever seems to give Edgar or Cruz any grief about finishing fights. I really don't think Edgar will ever be able to stop a top contender and Cruz is a point striker with a very bad finishing rate. It is so difficult for champions to finish a fighter but I feel Georges tries most of the time. Cruz and Edgar just come out to win rounds and possibly their lack of popularity id due to their lack of highlight reel finishes. I just don't see why their is a new thread every time Georges fails to finish while few would mention it if Cruz or Edgar fail to finish.

Voodu Child

Deleted User wrote: »

Top rated comment was classic.
"Seagal thought him that poke"

As he reaches out with an open palm it looks like he's about to slap him in the face :pac: But yeah, that was either very sloppy or intentional.

Im not a fan of GSP but sadly I think the eye injury will make him even more cautious as a fighter. He sounded very concerned in the corner and by all accounts he still couldn't see out of it the next day.

SDTimeout

I noticed Shields fingers were out a lot like that to be honest, was odd to say the least unless it's a style ? I would guess it's to help his shots for takedowns to keep them open like that all the time.

SanoVitae

I'm more pissed off with Shields being so poor after so much hype.

We all knew what GSP would do so it was very frustrating to find out that Shields could not do anything to take GSP out of his gameplan.

Worst of all, he never seemed to change his strategy in any way throughout 5 rounds. How could he not telegraph just one of the dozens of overhand rights and go all-out for a takedown?

It would have been very different fight had it hit the ground, with Shields in top position. But that's Shield's fault, not GSP's.

12gauge dave

gsp has proven hes p4p the best

jake shields should be what were talking about he was USELESS beyond belief:mad:

Fromvert

12gauge dave wrote: »

gsp has proven hes p4p the best

jake shields should be what were talking about he was USELESS beyond belief:mad:

No he hasn't, for me he'll have to move up a weight class and beat someone to be seen as the p4p best. Anderson Silva has twice and KO'd both of them. He's in the top 3/4 but he's not number one.

12gauge dave

ya true in that regard silva would be p4p!

gsp is up there personally i hate watching him fight not a fan at all

gsp vs silva is to ufc to what mayweather vs pacquiao is to boxing



neither will ever happen:rolleyes:

Oh_Noes

Not a fan either, his style isn't enjoyable to watch and he's very predictable. He's good at what he does, squeeks out points wins by avoiding engaging and pointscoring.

The level of competition is poor at his weight class though, It'll be interesting to see if Nate Marquart moves down or they bring Nick Diaz in. Definitely not p4p top three.

seadnamac

Oh_Noes wrote: »

Not a fan either, his style isn't enjoyable to watch and he's very predictable. He's good at what he does, squeeks out points wins by avoiding engaging and pointscoring.

The level of competition is poor at his weight class though, It'll be interesting to see if Nate Marquart moves down or they bring Nick Diaz in. Definitely not p4p top three.

Haha.

Xlami

Oh_Noes wrote: »

Not a fan either, his style isn't enjoyable to watch and he's very predictable. He's good at what he does, squeeks out points wins by avoiding engaging and pointscoring.

The level of competition is poor at his weight class though, It'll be interesting to see if Nate Marquart moves down or they bring Nick Diaz in. Definitely not p4p top three.

Really can't ever see him fighting Marquart.

Clive

scudzilla wrote: »

So what's everybody's opinions on GSP now?

I think he's proved that he's the greatest welterweight of all time.

GSP is a victim of his own success - he's undoubtedly #1 in his weightclass and your could make a convincing argument that he's #1 pound for pound. He's the guy everyone wants to see lose because he's too good. He smashed BJ and people talked about vaseline or that it wasn't a real stoppage. He beats top class opposition and "the division is weak" or he's not exciting enough.

"I'd have more respect for him if put it on the line" is what some people say, and fair enough they may mean it, but most other people who claim that would be straight on the internet about how GSP was always overrated. Two or three "glorious losses" in a row and they'd say he was "done" and "should retire now". GSP knows that the MMA world is fickle.

In terms of his performance against Shields, he answered the question many people had - about his heart. He couldn't see out of one eye and was clearly troubled by it and taking damage, but still executed his gameplan perfectly. I'd be interested to know which two rounds two of the judges gave to Shields. I can see an argument for the fifth and no other but I was watching it with my fan hat on rather than my judging one.

The Diaz fight would be interesting in that it's the most dangerous guard he's faced in recent times, but again realistically GSP is a heavy favourite. Hopefully if he chooses to move up in weight class, he won't be pushed into fighting Silva straight away, but given the time (and a couple of hand picked fights if he wants them) to settle at middleweight.

Richy06

GSP greases himself up.

TechnoPool

gsp is what 5'10? He is way to small to trouble silva i think , size difference on fight night would be unreal.

Mellor

If he moves up, he'll spend a good few months moving to 185 properly, putting on 20 lbs of muscle, he'll be a similar size but shorter.
6'0" is pretty standard for a MW, plenty of top 10 guys are that size. 5'10" is small for a middleweight, but not unheard of, "Sexyama" for one IIRC

TechnoPool

gsp must be around that come his WW fight nights, he is a monster at that weight

Mellor

I meant move up to the 185 lb division, not to a weight of 185lb - He's already there abouts, but in order to be top level competive he need to be over 200lbs

baaaa

GSP greasing again according to Caeser Gracie.
http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2011/5/2/2149742/jake-had-a-leg-a-couple-of-times-gsp-got-out-very-well-it-looked-like

Richy06

Read the full interview and the comments underneath. The quote is taken out of context. He doesn't accuse GSP of greasing.

For those of you who are lazy...

From the interview:
"Props to GSP for having excellent takedown defense and making it a stand-up fight where he thought he will win, but Jake came out to fight and I thought he looked really good. GSP has beaten everybody else up for the most part and made it very lopsided in his wins and, even though he was able to take the fight where he wanted it and that was standing, it looked like Jake did very well standing, you know, on his feet with him.

I think with Jake even his guard is so good he’ll reverse position if they, if, you know… He was trying to find a way, you know, finish this fight. It’s a tough, tough fight for anyone fighting GSP because the guy’s a master at the point fighting thing. He’ll go with his striking a little bit and if he’s not doing that great standing, he’ll take you down.

But it’s an interesting match-up because Nick’s jiu-jitsu is world-class, also. he has a great guard, he submits people, he doesn’t get hurt. That might be a nightmare for GSP and the only way to know that is if these two guys fight, so we’ll see what happens."

He said GSP was slippery after he slipped out of single leg attempts. Didn’t even allude to any wrongdoing.

baaaa

Richy06 wrote: »

Read the full interview and the comments underneath. The quote is taken out of context. He doesn't accuse GSP of greasing.

For those of you who are lazy...

From the interview:
"Props to GSP for having excellent takedown defense and making it a stand-up fight where he thought he will win, but Jake came out to fight and I thought he looked really good. GSP has beaten everybody else up for the most part and made it very lopsided in his wins and, even though he was able to take the fight where he wanted it and that was standing, it looked like Jake did very well standing, you know, on his feet with him.

I think with Jake even his guard is so good he’ll reverse position if they, if, you know… He was trying to find a way, you know, finish this fight. It’s a tough, tough fight for anyone fighting GSP because the guy’s a master at the point fighting thing. He’ll go with his striking a little bit and if he’s not doing that great standing, he’ll take you down.

But it’s an interesting match-up because Nick’s jiu-jitsu is world-class, also. he has a great guard, he submits people, he doesn’t get hurt. That might be a nightmare for GSP and the only way to know that is if these two guys fight, so we’ll see what happens."

He said GSP was slippery after he slipped out of single leg attempts. Didn’t even allude to any wrongdoing.

This is what Caeser said about GSP's leg-"so it must have been really slippery or something, I don’t know".
Do you know what allude means?

Richy06

He may have been alluding to the fact that GSP was sweaty.

Are you familiar with conclusions? More specifically, jumping to them?

baaaa

Richy06 wrote: »

He may have been alluding to the fact that GSP was sweaty.

Lol ,really?I don't think he was "alluding" to sweat,that would be like a football player alluding to the fact that the ball might be round.
You are aware that many fighters have accused GSP of greasing?
I am positive that he doesn't grease his balls though,otherwise you would slip off and be unable to continue arguing for him.

Richy06

I'm well aware of the accusations, I'm sure that he may have done it before.
Neither am I a GSP nuthugger. I just can't fathom how people seem to like to jump all over a fighter after a bad performance. Fighters have good and bad performances. Why does it have to come down to accusations of greasing because Shields couldn't get him down?

The exaggerated over analysis that follows fights like this just amazes me.
I'm sorry GSP didn't rip out his useless eyeball and use it to batter Shields into submission. I really am. Next time I'll jump on the bandwagon.