Trolling in the Soccer Forum and other problems.

Jazzy

SlickRic wrote: »

when have we ever said this?

i have 2 pm's - 1 from a current mod and 1 from an ex-mod. i probably have more and it has been said numerous times over the years

SlickRic wrote:

a lot of the time posters will post an alternative opinion, and people just go nuts calling it trolling.

this is not RAWK or RedCafe.

there is a happy medium between the 2 that is difficult to find, but we do our best. you can't ban everyone with an alternative opinion, and the amount of ridiculous reports we get from people who call a different opinion trolling is laughable.

i know. but you HAVE let the same trolls away with trolling for literally years. i know you do your best but i still maintain that the mods inability (thats what it is) to deal with low-level / casual trolling is the biggest mark on your record. what frustrates me is is that its incredibly simple to deal with but for some reason you never do

K-9

I can't understand how somebody who posts that much in the Liverpool thread, 546 posts since July, over 1 in a hundred of the total posts, who actually posts more there than their own teams thread, obviously taking a big interest in Liverpool fc, Who Posted? - boards.ie, 580 posts for 09/10, nearly 2 out of 100 and that pattern continues back AFAIK, would not know how sensitive a topic it is. I suppose it comes down to believing if the question was well intentioned or not and the posters history would suggest to me, no, it was an obvious and extremely ill judged wind up.

@LoLth, a few posters seem to have perfected that art so much that they don't even get infractions or yellow cards in the soccer forum. Ignoring is all well and good but if a posters isn't really contributing anything that much other than winding up posters, what value are they adding? And really, unless the whole board ignores them, they are free to annoy whoever innocently gets sucked in.

K-9

Jazzy wrote: »

i have 2 pm's - 1 from a current mod and 1 from an ex-mod. i probably have more and it has been said numerous times over the years




i know. but you HAVE let the same trolls away with trolling for literally years. i know you do your best but i still maintain that the mods inability (thats what it is) to deal with low-level / casual trolling is the biggest mark on your record. what frustrates me is is that its incredibly simple to deal with but for some reason you never do

There are 2 or 3 opposition fans who contribute regularly to the superthread and there is no problem with them at all, it is the low level trolling that never seems to get acted on.

The forum has improved a hell of a lot in the last few years and has taken on feedback from users, but this seems to be a recurrent issue and nothing ever gets done about it, despite it being a big issue to a lot of regular posters.

Jazzy

K-9 wrote: »

There are 2 or 3 opposition fans who contribute regularly to the superthread and there is no problem with them at all, it is the low level trolling that never seems to get acted on.

The forum has improved a hell of a lot in the last few years and has taken on feedback from users, but this seems to be a recurrent issue and nothing ever gets done about it, despite it being a big issue to a lot of regular posters.

the best posters on the forum are mostly utd fans imo

and yes - nothing has ever been done about it despite various mods over the years saying they "will look into it"

Mr Alan

Jazzy, while I agree with the sentiment of what you're saying, I think sometimes it is difficult to deal with the kind of casual trolling we're talking about & you're being a little harsh on the mods here. Also some people seem to think that giving a differing point of view is trolling, it's not.

However in The Muppets case, it really is startling obvious to all parties concerned what his game is.

--amadeus--

The number 1 rule on Boards is "Don't be a dick". The Muppet - in particular - regularly acts like a dick in the opinion of the vast majority of the people who share the threads he posts in. Pretty clear cut and easy to moderate, no?

Mr Alan

--amadeus-- wrote: »

The number 1 rule on Boards is "Don't be a dick". The Muppet - in particular - regularly acts like a dick in the opinion of the vast majority of the people who share the threads he posts in. Pretty clear cut and easy to moderate, no?

That I agree with

Sean Bateman

fluffyorganic1 wrote: »

Oh Lordy, here we go!!!:eek:

rarnes1 wrote: »

I replied to that sick post from Bateman above but have deleted it.

No need to feed.

Kess73 wrote: »

I was trying to stay out of this thread, but that last line is total bullsh1t.

The Liverpool superthread has had a number of Hillborough debates in it over the last two or three seasons. People have had questions answered and links to sites with factual information have been made available.

Plenty of supporters of other clubs were involved and it generally went well when genuine questions were asked. Now maybe you have not been using the football forum for very long or just missed those discussions but the issue has been discussed a number of times over the years. Generally there is a bit of duscussion on the topic every April for obvious reasons, and for some reason it seems to get an airing in the superthread around Halloween as well.

Anybody who is genuine in their questions is never a bother in my eyes. Plenty of folk are too young to remember what happened, or supported other clubs and only had a passing interest as to what happened.

What actually happened, the attempted brushing under the carpet as to why exits were locked and in some cases chained, what was reported in certain media outlets, what was said by a certain manager, and how certain media outlets had their version blown out of the water and the same went for that manager, and the fight that families have made for the truth to be published is all out there to be read about, and in many cases it is there to be heard from a Liverpool supporter's pov as well.


The allegations made by that paper were proven false, and the report that proved those allegations were false was published in 1990.

Now I hope this is ok with the mods but I would like to put up a link to the HJC (Hillsborough Justice Campaign) which my brother and I are involved with.

http://www.contrast.org/hillsborough/

Using that link, you can read through reports of what happened. Read reports from survivors, and listen to reports there. You can read about the various campaigns and the whys behind each campaign. If you decide you have further questions on it, feel free to pm me and I will give you what I think to the best of my ability, or if mods allow it, maybe a sensible chat about it in the superthread where other reds could let you know how they feel about it and give you their takes on it.

What happened that day and it's aftermath goes far far beyond club loyalties, and should never be used for points scoring or cheap baiting ( not for a second saying that about you). It changed a lot of lives and many still live with it to this day.


The ball is in your court now if you are genuine about it. Use the links, pm me, or ask a mod if we can discuss it in the forum.

QED

I'm accused of trolling because I don't believe the accounts of Hillsborough survivors and I do believe that there is some fire underneath this particular smoke.

But straight away, people start playing the man and not the ball.

Baseless allegations of trolling are just as bad as trolling.

KittyeeTrix

Sean Bateman wrote: »

QED

I'm accused of trolling because I don't believe the accounts of Hillsborough survivors and I do believe that there is some fire underneath this particular smoke.

But straight away, people start playing the man and not the ball.

Baseless allegations of trolling are just as bad as trolling.

Firstly, what is QED??? Forget it.........Googled!!!

and secondly, you must know that coming into a feedback thread which has it's origins in perceived trolling with regards to the Hillsborough tragedy coupled with the post you made is gonna make you a candidate for the title "troll".............You must know that!!!

Sean Bateman

fluffyorganic1 wrote: »

Firstly, what is QED???
and secondly, you must know that coming into a feedback thread which has it's origins in perceived trolling with regards to the Hillsborough tragedy coupled with the post you made is gonna make you a candidate for the title "troll".............You must know that!!!

QED = Quod erat demonstrandum/which was to be shown

I'm accused to being a troll because my view is somewhat different to the angry mob and because I don't swallow the agenda pushed by Liverpool fans. Some Liverpool fans have been accused of urinating on the dead, pickpocketing the dead and sexually abusing the dead. Some other Liverpool fans have mounted justice campaigns and viciously attack anyone who dares to question their agenda.

Branding people trolls on the basis that they disagree with you is far worse than trolling, and it's a blight on all discussion forums.

Jazzy

Sean Bateman wrote: »

Some Liverpool fans have been accused of urinating on the dead, pickpocketing the dead and sexually abusing the dead.

yes, there was those accusations that had no proof whatsoever. but then there was all that proof of what went wrong and such and the failures of the groundstaff, police etc. so you can of the opinion where there is no proof whatsoever or you can have the opinion of where the proof and facts are. its up to you

therecklessone

Sean Bateman wrote: »

Baseless allegations of trolling are just as bad as trolling.

Baseless allegations of misbehaviour by Liverpool fans on that day mean any accusation of trolling is well deserved.

The Muppet

SlickRic wrote: »

you want 'freedom of speech'. fine. i agree. but there has to be a point, as per the rules of the charter that you are sensitive to where you are posting and what you are posting about. or else there is anarchy.

I was sensitive about where and what i was posting, I commented a number of times about the sensitivities involved during the coversation, also The thread the discussion was in was not a "liverpool thread" it was in one about a tv show and it's sponsors.

The reaction and witch hunt that has followed is totally OTT IMO .

Kess73

Sean Bateman wrote: »

QED

I'm accused of trolling because I don't believe the accounts of Hillsborough survivors and I do believe that there is some fire underneath this particular smoke.

But straight away, people start playing the man and not the ball.

Baseless allegations of trolling are just as bad as trolling.

Bit like what you have done with me then by lumping my post in as one saying you are trolling?

And you don't have to believe the accounts of the survivors if you don't want to.

But their accounts have been backed up by statements from police, ambulance crews, match day stewards, stadium officials and many other in the Taylor report. Have a look through the link I put up for you and you will see that there is a lot more than just what survivors say in it.

K-9

Sean Bateman wrote: »

QED = Quod erat demonstrandum/which was to be shown

I'm accused to being a troll because my view is somewhat different to the angry mob and because I don't swallow the agenda pushed by Liverpool fans. Some Liverpool fans have been accused of urinating on the dead, pickpocketing the dead and sexually abusing the dead. Some other Liverpool fans have mounted justice campaigns and viciously attack anyone who dares to question their agenda.

Branding people trolls on the basis that they disagree with you is far worse than trolling, and it's a blight on all discussion forums.

Well this isn't an extension of the thread but to try and link it to this discussion, what proof have you that Liverpool fans pickpocketed, pissed on and sexually assaulted the dead? Because it seems the Sun, the judicial inquiry and the police couldn't find any? Oh and the police and the inquiry did try and back up allegations against the fans, tried very hard to scape goat their lack of action.

Do you have anything to back it up other than it's your opinion unicorns exist?

K-9

The Muppet wrote: »

I was sensitive about where and what i was posting, I commented a number of times about the sensitivities involved during the coversation, also The thread the discussion was in was not a "liverpool thread" it was in one about a tv show and it's sponsors.

The reaction and witch hunt that has followed is totally OTT IMO .

Technicalities tbh, you wouldn't have got away with saying that in the superthread, hey presto, a thread arrives with more leeway and you exploit it fully. It's the usual hiding behind the rule book stuff.

The reaction isn't OTT, the witch hunt is just posters who gave you the benefit of the doubt copping on to this type of behaviour.

The thread isn't about you anyway, it has been a problem on a couple of the superthreads and just boiled over last night.

Handsome Bob

Kess73 wrote: »

Bit like what you have done with me then by lumping my post in as one saying you are trolling?

And you don't have to believe the accounts of the survivors if you don't want to.

But their accounts have been backed up by statements from police, ambulance crews, match day stewards, stadium officials and many other in the Taylor report. Have a look through the link I put up for you and you will see that there is a lot more than just what survivors say in it.

K-9 wrote: »

Well this isn't an extension of the thread but to try and link it to this discussion, what proof have you that Liverpool fans pickpocketed, pissed on and sexually assaulted the dead? Because it seems the Sun, the judicial inquiry and the police couldn't find any? Oh and the police and the inquiry did try and back up allegations against the fans, tried very hard to scape goat their lack of action.

Do you have anything to back it up other than it's your opinion unicorns exist?

Leave it lads, you're not going to get anywhere with him.

What I found frustrating about last night was that The Muppet knows better, I know he does. He's seen enough debates in regards to Hillsborough to know that the route he was going down with his questioning was at best ridiculously stupid, and at worst just plain badness.

The Muppet

LZ5by5 wrote: »

Leave it lads, you're not going to get anywhere with him.

What I found frustrating about last night was that The Muppet knows better, I know he does. He's seen enough debates in regards to Hillsborough to know that the route he was going down with his questioning was at best ridiculously stupid, and at worst just plain badness.

At this juncture i have to say i think it's totally unfair to allow other users make allegation about my line of questioning last night when the thread in question has been deleted and people reading this thread do not have the option to see said line of questioning for themselves.

Could the thread be restored if this attack is to continue?

murpho999

Sean Bateman wrote: »

QED

I'm accused of trolling because I don't believe the accounts of Hillsborough survivors and I do believe that there is some fire underneath this particular smoke.

But straight away, people start playing the man and not the ball.

Baseless allegations of trolling are just as bad as trolling.

So you don't believe the people who were there at the event but yet you believe the smoke that comes from a fire lit by the Sun?



Brilliant I suppose you believe that Bin Laden wasn't shot yesterday?

The Muppet

murpho999 wrote: »

So you don't believe the people who were there at the event but yet you believe the smoke that comes from a fire lit by the Sun?

Are you suggesting that everyone that was present that day witnessed every single incident which occured?

Was'nt the Chief superintendant and his officers that made the allegations present?

It was a lot more than the sun that ran with the story, the Liverpool echo ran similar stories as did numerous other publications.

Grayditch

I wonder if you have actually fooled yourself into thinking you care about what happened.

K-9

The Muppet wrote: »

Are you suggesting that everyone that was present that day witnessed every single incident which occured?

Was'nt the Chief superintendant and his officers that made the allegations present?

It was a lot more than the sun that ran with the story, the Liverpool echo ran similar stories as did numerous other publications.

Would these be the police reports that were doctored to make the police look better? The Chief Super hasn't an ounce of credibility left after the lies he told. All the papers retracted the comments and apologised, even the Sun though it took a judicial inquiry.

Anyway, this isn't the same thread but do start one on the soccer forum if you want. I'm only relying to you because it isn't the soccer forum.

bamboozling

For what it's worth I think the mods do a good job. I've got two infractions this year, one I thought was a slightly harsh but the other one was for acting the goat one day when I engaged in casual trolling. I was called out, and infracted for it and I accepted the charge without question.

The problem is others engage is such trolling on a common basis and don't get infracted. That is where the problem lies.

I think Iago is an excellent moderator, he applies the laws strictly and fairly with others. Indeed there are times when I think the other mods are happy to allow Iago to play the bad guy role as he often acts on things days later despite other mods being online before him. I explicitly remember an PM exchange where offensive posts were left untouched for 3 days until I brought to the attention of Iago. I brought it to the attention of another mod the day before yet still no action was taken.

Basically there needs to be consistency between the mods, it's too easy to let Iago be the bad cop, and the consistent trolling of some users has to stop..

murpho999

The Muppet wrote: »

Are you suggesting that everyone that was present that day witnessed every single incident which occured?

Was'nt the Chief superintendant and his officers that made the allegations present?

It was a lot more than the sun that ran with the story, the Liverpool echo ran similar stories as did numerous other publications.

All I remember is that no one was arrested on the day or subsequently for any of the allegations and that 96 people died.

The fact that the police were seriously panicking over the repercussions from their decisions might have something to with the defensive allegations by the Police Super, but everyone would believe a police officer over thousands of fans that were there wouldn't they?

I'm not responding any more to you Muppet, 2nd day in a row now that you are using a passive-aggressive method masked by pretending that you are only seeking public information to rile people and I really find it astounding and not worthy of further riposte.

Chucky the tree

Even in a feedback thread he can still troll people and get reactions. Such a shame people fall for it so easily. People can blame the mods all the like for not banning him but the people who reply to him are just as bad.

RasTa

Is this trolling subject to the Liverpool forum only?

amiable

RasTa wrote: »

Is this trolling subject to the Liverpool forum only?

Its all the soccer forums

Grayditch

It must be annoying to wait around for someone to answer that, so you can make the point you actually want to make.

RasTa

Then why does it seem to be the same Liverpool fans pissing and moaning

Grayditch

....thank you.