Photo lab selling prints of my photo...without my consent!!

linearcutter

Hi Folks,

As the thread title suggests...a photo lab I went to recently has one of the images I had printed there up on a shelf, in a frame, on sale.

It's a B&W shot of the Customs House in Dublin, and it still has my initials and date in the bottom right corner, exactly as I had originally brought it in to be printed.

I was returning to print some photos this morning and spotted it on the shelf, plain as day. I had it pretty hi rez when I brought it into the store initially. He has a sign saying "Dublin City Monuments - Printed & Mounted - €15" and alongside my shot, he's got 4 other shots of the city (these are in colour). When I confronted him, he said that it was an honest mistake and that I could have the print on display. He also said that the other 4 images were his, and that he got them from the Dublin Corporation website. He kept a straight face all the way through this too.

Personally I don't believe it was "an honest mistake" at all and at this point, I'm pretty much fuming. I've spoken to someone in legal here in work and they've said that all I can really do is write a strongly worded letter to him suggesting that he remove my image from the store display and write to me confirming that he has done so, alologising for the mistake and also confirming the how many, (if any) copies of said image have been sold, enclosing a cheque to the value.

I think I should go over there and demand free prints for life from the sneaky f**ker or I'll tell the whole community what he's at.

Anyone care to give me some advice?

Cheers.

C

a5y

What ever you do, get evidence of him selling that photo and don't break the law yourself.

minikin

Send a third party in to purchase it, make sure they get a receipt... bingo.

This is breach of copyright pure and simple.

emrys

if it is your picture they are guilty of theft and copyright infringement - contact a solicitor.

linearcutter

Yeah...hindsight is 20x20. I should have stayed quiet and bought a copy. When I confronted him, he took it off the shelf and I wouldn't be surprised if the others in the "set" are now gone from display too.

kelly1

Some neck!! :mad:

Effects

Name and shame?

migemo

Wonder is he a direct employee or is it a franchise. Either way I'm sure his superior wouldn't be happy that he seems to be trying to make some money for himself on the side.

linearcutter

He said he was the manager of the store, although there was an employee on duty the day I originally got the prints done.

.Longshanks.

This exact same thing was discussed here before. Have a search because I remember some good advise being provided.

PCPhoto

I've seen photo labs do this in the past - its difficult to catch/prosecute them.

legally they are supposed to dispose of images once printed, in some cases staff print/take copies for themselves, its a nightmare to prove but one which is best done through the courts instead of approaching the shop staff/owner. (to teach them a lesson and get publicity to deter others from doing the same)


OP I would suggest that you make a note of it and return to the shop after several weeks, if they have returned to their old ways do not mention it to the staff go get a mate to purchase a copy and contact a solicitor.

the_syco

linearcutter wrote: »

He also said that the other 4 images were his, and that he got them from the Dublin Corporation website. He kept a straight face all the way through this too.

I'd look for the images on the Dublin Corporation website, and check are they copyrighted. If they are, I'd inform whoever owns the photos of the possible infringement that the man is attempting to do...

linearcutter

Thanks guys for all the advice, I will let you know the outcome.

magicbastarder

do dublin county council have print resolution images on their website?
if they do, colour me surprised.
if they do, and allow people to print them for the purposes of sale, colour me even more surprised.

challengemaster

Surprised? Where the feic is that on the colourwheel?! :pac:

magicbastarder

it's close to mauve.

smelltheglove

Would love to know the name of the place in case it was somewhere I regularily use, I would know to stay away. I know you cannot name right here but pm?

It is a pity you didnt think to buy it first, most likely it will nto be put back up but I would agree, look on the mentioned website to see if you can find the others, maybe the other photog could chase him, he would still get his just deserts.

magicbastarder

it's the mindbending stupidity of it which is remarkable. selling a customer's work; given that they'd had you as a customer before meant you were more than likely to darken their door again.

linearcutter

What I'm most impressed by is his business sense. I have a set of said landmark photographs, all in B&W and matching style which if he felt were sellable, he could have struck a legitimate deal with me when I returned, like I told the original guy I would. Instead he chose to try pull a fast one. I have no problem naming the store on here.

It's the 1 hour photo here -

<SNIP>

stcstc

i know of a couple of places that have done this.

one i know of was printing and framing to put in their gallery, and the photog was to sign every one so he know how many were sold. he found at least 5 framed images up on walls in places, not signed, then found two in the gallery ready for collection

Abelloid

magicbastarder wrote: »

do dublin county council have print resolution images on their website?
if they do, colour me surprised.
if they do, and allow people to print them for the purposes of sale, colour me even more surprised.

That thought crossed my mind too, but some sites do have press images in a decent resolution buried in there.

...but not for selling on, obviously.

the_syco

smelltheglove wrote: »

maybe the other photog could chase him, he would still get his just deserts.

I was thinking if it was sold through some sort of stock company, the stock company could chase (I know some companies will chase, others won't).

magicbastarder wrote: »

do dublin county council have print resolution images on their website?
if they do, colour me surprised.
if they do, and allow people to print them for the purposes of sale, colour me even more surprised.

Anyone who knows how to use Google correctly can find them. Example:

http://www.dublincity.ie/SiteCollectionImages/Night_shot_of_Mansion_House.jpg

Good big picture.

The_Snapper

minikin wrote: »

Send a third party in to purchase it, make sure they get a receipt... bingo.

This is breach of copyright pure and simple.

Also if it happens again send someone in to engage the staff in friendly conversation about how good the image is and "How many copies have been sold" then buy it.

linearcutter

I think i'll go over tomorrow and if I don't walk out of ther with a shiny new camera bag by way of an apology/payment for my image....tell him to expect a solicitors letter and a few hits on the shopping centre's facebook page....which has a good bit of traffic by the look of it. Cheeky I know, petty, maybe.....but in fairness it may just be "eye for an eye" time.

eeyore2502

OMG The neck of them!

After seeing the name of the shop I'm not that surprised. I did some pictures for a neighbour which they got their own frame for, when I requested the print size she told me 11" x 11" but when she went to frame the print she realised it was 11.5" x 11.5" I said I could reprint but there would be an additional charge for it, I heard no more and then a few days later she contacted me to let me know she had gone to the same store and got it scanned and reprinted!! and not a question asked!

JohnJC

Naming the shop on a public forum without their consent can result in legal action also so i dont think you should be getting on your high horse.

also, why should you get reward for a picture you took? should great football player get money everytime their goals are replayed on MotD like how music artists get paid for every time their song is played on the radio.

it was taking down, as you requested, so why try bring it further?

this type of attitude is why this couldnt is such a sh*t hole to live in at the moment.....too much bloody negetivity!

Abelloid

JohnJC wrote: »

Naming the shop on a public forum without their consent can result in legal action also so i dont think you should be getting on your high horse.

also, why should you get reward for a picture you took? should great football player get money everytime their goals are replayed on MotD like how music artists get paid for every time their song is played on the radio.

it was taking down, as you requested, so why try bring it further?

this type of attitude is why this couldnt is such a sh*t hole to live in at the moment.....too much bloody negetivity!

'Without their consent'.

soccerc

JohnJC wrote: »

why should you get reward for a picture you took?

Big box of popcorn at the ready:pac::pac::pac:

JohnJC

soccerc wrote: »

Big box of popcorn at the ready:pac::pac::pac:

keep some for me.....bitta melted butter too

can't beat people that love negetivity and are always giving out and complaining:p

soccerc

JohnJC wrote: »

keep some for me.....bitta melted butter too

can't beat people that love negetivity and are always giving out and complaining:p

Guess my quote from your OP went right over your head.

Are you employed? Does your employer reward you for the hours you attend?

CabanSail

Reopened thread with name of business removed, pending review.

linearcutter

JohnJC, I'm not about to get into how misguided your opinions are on this, since you asked though, getting paid for a photo I took is not really the issue, it's more to do with copyright infringement and breach of trust.

In this case, the image was part of a paid job I undertook for a client. Imagine that client were to walk pass the photo lab and see a copy of a photo he'd commissioned someone to take exclusively for him, on sale to the general public at a knock down price. He'd be less than pleased, and more importantly to me, he'd be less likely to recommend my services to friends/family, and he'd also likely chase me down for some kind of reimbursement.

It's potentially damaging to my income and it's both illegal and morally wrong...plain and simple...or black & white if you will!

cutter.

City-Exile

JohnJC wrote: »

Naming the shop on a public forum without their consent can result in legal action also so i dont think you should be getting on your high horse.

also, why should you get reward for a picture you took? should great football player get money everytime their goals are replayed on MotD like how music artists get paid for every time their song is played on the radio.

it was taking down, as you requested, so why try bring it further?

this type of attitude is why this couldnt is such a sh*t hole to live in at the moment.....too much bloody negetivity!

Clearly a wind-up.
Good to see that most people aren't foolish enough to bite.

JohnJC wrote: »

this type of attitude is why this couldnt is such a sh*t hole to live in at the moment.....too much bloody negetivity!

The irony in this statement alone, is comedy gold!

Scarlet42

why not let them sell it and take a cut out of the takings ... ask him will he sell some more of your stuff .. do a deal with him.

City-Exile

Scarlet42 wrote: »

why not let them sell it and take a cut out of the takings ... ask him will he sell some more of your stuff .. do a deal with him.

The fact that they were printing them, framing them & selling them means that they cannot be trusted. If they sell 10, but tell you they've sold 1, how will you ever know?

imkindablonde

Linearcutter, You said that he said it was a mistake and took the image down straight away? Why would you not trust that? Have you been back to the store to check it out?

All this send a friend in malarky...If its up and you walk in they cant very well take it down! Bring your mobile phone camera into the shop and try take some pictures.

This happened to me too when I was living in OZ and after I spoke to the owner they took it down.

People make mistakes but before you slate the company you should go in and check that your image is still up...! Give people the benefit of the doubt...!

sheesh

imkindablonde wrote: »

Linearcutter, You said that he said it was a mistake and took the image down straight away? Why would you not trust that? Have you been back to the store to check it out?

All this send a friend in malarky...If its up and you walk in they cant very well take it down! Bring your mobile phone camera into the shop and try take some pictures.

This happened to me too when I was living in OZ and after I spoke to the owner they took it down.

People make mistakes but before you slate the company you should go in and check that your image is still up...! Give people the benefit of the doubt...!

wow, you are kind of blonde aren't you?

:pac:

Keedowah

OP - did you get your new bag off them yet?

CabanSail

imkindablonde wrote: »

Linearcutter, You said that he said it was a mistake and took the image down straight away? Why would you not trust that? Have you been back to the store to check it out?

All this send a friend in malarky...If its up and you walk in they cant very well take it down! Bring your mobile phone camera into the shop and try take some pictures.

This happened to me too when I was living in OZ and after I spoke to the owner they took it down.

People make mistakes but before you slate the company you should go in and check that your image is still up...! Give people the benefit of the doubt...!

This a bit like finding someone was accidentally taking money from your bank account but it's all OK as they stopped when you found out.

imkindablonde

Its nothing like robbing a bank account unless it was commissioned photo (which I HIGHLY doubt it was if he was having it printed in a 1 hour photo store).

What is blonde about wanting to give people the benefit of the doubt? Have none of you ever made mistakes in work? If so please pass you CV on coz you are one in a billion!

All Im saying is instead of going onto the WORLD WIDE WEB and thrashing a store how about you try and sort it out like an adult...? Go in and find answers before presuming the worst in people.

Like I said it happened to me too and all it took was a polite conversation with the manager and it was all sorted!

CabanSail

imkindablonde wrote: »

Its nothing like robbing a bank account unless it was commissioned photo (which I HIGHLY doubt it was if he was having it printed in a 1 hour photo store).

If you read the thread you will see that the OP says it was a commissioned image.

linearcutter wrote: »

In this case, the image was part of a paid job I undertook for a client. Imagine that client were to walk pass the photo lab and see a copy of a photo he'd commissioned someone to take exclusively for him, on sale to the general public at a knock down price. He'd be less than pleased, and more importantly to me, he'd be less likely to recommend my services to friends/family, and he'd also likely chase me down for some kind of reimbursement.

It's potentially damaging to my income and it's both illegal and morally wrong...plain and simple...or black & white if you will!

imkindablonde wrote: »

What is blonde about wanting to give people the benefit of the doubt? Have none of you ever made mistakes in work? If so please pass you CV on coz you are one in a billion!

I am sure we have all made mistakes at work. I could see that making an extra print might be a mistake. I can see how framing a wrong print could be a mistake. I can see that putting the wrong print up for sale could be a mistake. I just feel that making all those mistakes together is getting a bit far fetched and starts to sound more like theft. To be a mistake it has to be accidental rather than intentional.

Paulw

imkindablonde wrote: »

unless it was commissioned photo

What has the issue of commissioned or non-commissioned to do with this issue at all?

It's pure breach of copyright.

City-Exile

CabanSail wrote: »

I just feel that making all those mistakes together is getting a bit far fetched and starts to sound more like theft. To be a mistake it has to be accidental rather than intentional.

Maybe we're just all too cynical, but I agree completely with you.

Mountainsandh

imkindablonde wrote: »

Its nothing like robbing a bank account unless it was commissioned photo (which I HIGHLY doubt it was if he was having it printed in a 1 hour photo store).

What is blonde about wanting to give people the benefit of the doubt? Have none of you ever made mistakes in work? If so please pass you CV on coz you are one in a billion!

All Im saying is instead of going onto the WORLD WIDE WEB and thrashing a store how about you try and sort it out like an adult...? Go in and find answers before presuming the worst in people.

Like I said it happened to me too and all it took was a polite conversation with the manager and it was all sorted!

**splutters tea**

I don't understand this whole deal, and how it can possibly be excused.

Did there happen to be another photographer who also took pics of whatever in Dublin and had agreed a deal to have the photos framed and sold in the shop, and who had his stuff printed in the exact same time slot as the OP's stuff ? Wow. Fair coincidence if that's the case.

I am glad OP brought that up on the WORLD WIDE WEB actually. Why shouldn't these stories be publicized ? Either they made a mistake that is just not on, or they deliberately stole someone's image for their own profit. I don't think it's a small mistake, and I don't think I would settle everything with a simple polite conversation with the owner tbh.

So if the pics had been of say, 2 little kids playing in the grass with daisies, and I happened to have pics of my own kids playing in the grass with daisies being printed in the same time slot, my kids' pics could have been framed and sold without my knowledge ? Because of a little mistake ?

And that's assuming it was a mistake.
If it was deliberate, then it means this printer/lab has a pool of photographs to pick from every day to frame and sell at leisure ?

Nope. Definitely big big deal and not something I would forgive with a polite conversation.

magicbastarder

mountainsandh - an important point to bear in mind is that that poster has only two posts to their name, so is likely to have registered simply to troll this thread.

Tallon

magicbastarder wrote: »

mountainsandh - an important point to bear in mind is that that poster has only two posts to their name, so is likely to have registered simply to troll this thread.

Or be the store owner

pixbyjohn

The OP asked for advice, stick with that. Everytrhing else is a distraction from the seriousness of his topic.

linearcutter

pixbyjohn wrote: »

The OP asked for advice, stick with that. Everytrhing else is a distraction from the seriousness of his topic.

That's true and in doing so I have tried to exercise restraint and not totally go off on one.

Having sought legal advice from someone who deals with copyright and intellectual property cases regularly, my approach has been to send a formal "cease & desist" type letter, requesting written confirmation and acknowledgment of receipt, thus giving him an opportunity to correct the "mistake".

It don't get much more diplomatic and adult than that.

As for the possibility of it being an actual mistake....the fact he went straight to the shelf and picked up my photograph when I had said only
"there is a picture on sale here that I took" leads me to believe he knew exactly what he had done. In hindsight, I might have had an opportunity to go on Judge Judy had I quietly purchased a print and got a receipt, but I've enough drama in my life without inviting more on myself!

He's lost my custom, which was potentially worth quite a few quid to him every month. I personally find you get some decent results from a 1 hour lab if you spend some time with printing profiles in PS before you go into them. You also need to find a guy/girl who cares a bit about what they're doing.

Anyway folks, i'm happy that i'm on the right path to resolve this, and I appreciate all the input - both positive and negative.

Cheers,

Cutter.

PCPhoto

imkindablonde wrote: »

Its nothing like robbing a bank account

Chalk...cheese .... its also nothing like rocket science, road maintenance or underwater exploration, what it is like ....is theft ... its exactly like copyright theft, using someone else's image/work and selling it without their consent.

imkindablonde wrote: »

What is blonde about wanting to give people the benefit of the doubt? Have none of you ever made mistakes in work? If so please pass you CV on coz you are one in a billion!

Making a mistake is fair enough, but recognising your error and correcting it are also required - as Cabainsail says - too many coincidences for it to be a simple mistake.

imkindablonde wrote: »

All Im saying is instead of going onto the WORLD WIDE WEB and thrashing a store how about you try and sort it out like an adult...? Go in and find answers before presuming the worst in people.

Like I said it happened to me too and all it took was a polite conversation with the manager and it was all sorted!

I think highlighting the issue and naming/shaming the outlet to potential clients (other people interested in photography) is the best way to treat a business who could possibly repeat their "mistake" *

A printing business needs to ensure confidentiality of its clients images - every person that gets images printed assumes that the person printing the image is possibly the only person seeing the image - if they even check what is printed anymore most labs dont bother as the machine usually takes care of it.


*= assuming the facts are correct and the image was on sale and was the image taken by the OP then the shop should be avoided by anyone interested in the area needing to get stuff printed.

bernard0368

I use that shop:eek:

I wont be crossing that threshold again.

Tallon

bernard0368 wrote: »

I use that shop:eek:

I wont be crossing that threshold again.

Was the shop named?