Made to delete photo's

magnumlady

I was in a shopping centre in Manchester last week. I took a shot from the outside of the place and a few inside of shops (no people in them).
I had a security guard come up to me and tell me I couldn't take any photo's and he asked me to go through my memory card and made me delete the ones of the centre I had taken.
Is this allowed?

PCPhoto

firstly no-one can make you delete images (a member of the garda/police may be request it but you can refuse)

don't forget - if you have deleted the images you can more than likely recover the images using image recovery software (assuming you have not taken more pics overwriting the previous images)

of course - chances are you were on private property while inside the shopping centre - which means you could not use the images for sale/public display without consent - but at best they can ask you to leave and/or ask you to stop taking photos.

Abelloid

:eek:

I hope the answer is no.

magnumlady

I'm not too bothered about the pics. Just wondered where I stood if it happened again. It's the first time it's ever happened. I've since seen various photo's of the centre on flickr.

emrys

according to this http://www.amateurphotographer.co.uk/news/uk_photographers_rights__print_them_out_and_keep_them_handy_news_300122.html

no - not even the police have the right to make you delete them

leche solara

I've been told to stop taking pictures in the ILAC centre and IFSC in Dublin, in both cases being told that it was private property and the management reserved the right etc. They never asked me to delete anything, just told me to stop taking pictures or I'd be thrown out. I left.

Zillah

If its private property they have the right to stop you from taking the photos, but they have absolutely no right to delete them.

zerohamster

There was some other thread here with someone asking a similar question and someone pointed out that even if it was illegal to take photos that they couldn't ask you to delete them because they would be deleting evidence of the crime anyway which can't be destroyed.

Ghost Train

up to you to delete or not I'd guess... can't force you... but wonder maybe could throw you out or something if you objected?

could probably undelete photos or recover if really needed

sineadw

Nope - absolutely no right to make you delete. As others have said, not even the police can do that.

one2one

In the past a member of the EOD (Army Bomb Disposal) team requested for me to leave the area and delete my images - he was holding a gun so I did! However, security guards have also asked and I've simply replied with "No thanks".

Scamp-

magnumlady wrote: »

I was in a shopping centre in Manchester last week. I took a shot from the outside of the place and a few inside of shops (no people in them).
I had a security guard come up to me and tell me I couldn't take any photo's and he asked me to go through my memory card and made me delete the ones of the centre I had taken.
Is this allowed?

Punch him in the willy and run away.*






*This is not actual legal advice.

Damokc

i worked in one of the "bigger tile shops" for nearly 2 years and a couple came in one day and were taking pics of the display bathrooms that are made up in the shop.... they were told to stop by staff... apparently it had happened before, that an owner of a private tile shop came in took pics and copied the show room layout.

magicbastarder

that was a very short sighted reaction.
if i was taking shots so i could compare my options later, i know i'd take my business elsewhere.

magnumlady

Thanks for all the replies. I least I know where I stand now.
I've taken photo's in the Ilac and Jervis before and never had a problem.

Damokc

magicbastarder wrote: »

that was a very short sighted reaction.
if i was taking shots so i could compare my options later, i know i'd take my business elsewhere.

well the said tile company are now on the rocks and are running skeleton staff compared to what they had. they're more expensive than anyone else for practically the same quality of ware.

aidan18

The laws regarding public photography in the UK are completely different than they are here but I doubt the a security man can order you to delete the shots.

positivenote

aidan18 wrote: »

The laws regarding public photography in the UK are completely different than they are here but I doubt the a security man can order you to delete the shots.

this is an important issue... can anyone clarify what the situation here is regarding being asked to delete images from your camera by anyone, even a guard?
also , related to this issue, can someone take photos of me in my worklace without my permission? or can i ask them to not take my photo?
Cheers

magicbastarder

positivenote wrote: »

this is an important issue... can anyone clarify what the situation here is regarding being asked to delete images from your camera by anyone, even a guard?

as far as i understand - if you have committed no crime in taking the photos, they cannot ask you to delete the images. if you have committed a crime in taking the photos, they are asking you to destroy evidence - which is in itself illegal.

sheesh

positivenote wrote: »

this is an important issue... can anyone clarify what the situation here is regarding being asked to delete images from your camera by anyone, even a guard?
also , related to this issue, can someone take photos of me in my worklace without my permission? or can i ask them to not take my photo?
Cheers

Thats a good question technically probably not, the camera is belonged to you and its contents presumably belong to you. there might be a case of not following the instructions of a guard but I doubt it would ever stick as civil liberties would be at stake.

From a practical point of view:
As long as you treat the guard with a bit of respect when you decline you should get away with it without being brought to the station. Don't start shouting about your rights as a photographer. As long as you are being reasonable and not looking for a confrontation or trying to be some sort of civil liberties hero there should be not problem.

Security Guard can be different individuals, some are reasonable, others, from the stories on the internet I've read, just make up laws as they go along, best just to leave there and then.

pictures in your work place are different as security cameras are everywhere these days managment probably can if its a co worker or they are causing you embarrasment or annoyance you can contact hr or your suporvisor

Paulw

magicbastarder wrote: »

as far as i understand - if you have committed no crime in taking the photos, they cannot ask you to delete the images. if you have committed a crime in taking the photos, they are asking you to destroy evidence - which is in itself illegal.

That's exactly it, and the same in almost every country.

Only a court can order the images to be deleted.

If you have broken the law, the photos are required as evidence.

If you have not broken the law, then no one has the right to demand you delete the images.

They can always ask, but you can always say no.

trooney

positivenote wrote: »

... can someone take photos of me in my worklace...

What do you do that you wear lace to work?

magicbastarder

taking photos of you in the workplace is an interesting one. it's outside the context of the question as i imagine it was posed, but i know several people whose photos ended up on billboards when they posed for photos for their employer - the payment one got was 'a day out and a nice haircut' for the trouble.

i kept my counsel on that one, i decided not to outline my problems with the concept to her.

thebaz

you cant take photos in many places - prisons for example - the craziest one, is around Dublin port , I had the security around me , saying my camera posed a security risk , they said my tiny flash could cause an explosion , endangering the lives of many in Dublin - I'm serious - oh, and in an agressive manner asked me to leave

PCPhoto

Paulw wrote: »

That's exactly it, and the same in almost every country.

Only a court can order the images to be deleted.

If you have broken the law, the photos are required as evidence.

If you have not broken the law, then no one has the right to demand you delete the images.

They can always ask, but you can always say no.

not exactly true - there are exceptions .... like every law in Ireland theres exceptions to the rule .... drug squad or undercover members of the gardai should not be identified as it runs the risk of getting them killed while in the duty of their job (ie. taking a photo of them is unneccessary and should not be done), also CAB officers cannot also be identified.

it is illegal to publish images of undercover gardai or CAB officers (I believe) - not 100% on that one.

if they ask you to delete it ... its not worth the hassle ...its a grey area and you can be ordered by a member of the gardai to delete images, I remember a stand-off I had several years ago with gardai (cant remember if they were undercover or CAB) it even went so far as for them to call my boss (at the time) and get him to ask me to delete the images - as I had refused them point blank and didnt believe the laws they were quoting .... I believe they explained to my boss that his company would be gone through with a fine tooth comb by revenue and anyone associated with the agency would be under suspicion/investigated as to their reasons for photographing gardai.....if my memory is correct they quoted anti-terrorism acts. (it may have been shortly after the london terrorists attacks.)

long story short - most gardai dont mind, if they take offence, as long as the image is not crucial and if asked properly (with respect) I'll delete, ....but if you are not a garda or CAB member ... you can F*ck off - my pics I'll do what I want with them (within reason)

Little Alex

magicbastarder wrote: »

that was a very short sighted reaction.
if i was taking shots so i could compare my options later, i know i'd take my business elsewhere.

Absolutely! I often take snaps of stuff that I'm thinking of buying.

thebaz wrote: »

the craziest one, is around Dublin port , I had the security around me , saying my camera posed a security risk , they said my tiny flash could cause an explosion , endangering the lives of many in Dublin - I'm serious - oh, and in an agressive manner asked me to leave

I think he was taking the piss. Have you ever seen Amelie? :pac:

I read about a fellow in England a while ago who was made delete photos he took of his own son on one of those 50p rides by some jobsworth security guard in a shopping centre. The security guard was threatening to call the police otherwise.

Mountainsandh

Amelie ? the film ? there's a camera related explosion in it ???

samhail

Might be interesting to get a point of view from someone on the Law forum.

In work, when i was chatting with security they said that they were not allowed to put cameras in the main floors where people worked.

though i did do a contract with a company that wrote software for CCTV cameras so there were about 50-80 cameras spotted all over the place on the ceilings.
Even got a video of one of the guys acting very smooth chatting up one of the girls, then turning around and walking right into a pole.
Then another video of his reaction when he saw the video he was in... ah good times



oh actually another story ...
My dad just told me last weekend too, when he was in the merchant navy he went ashore somewhere, suez canel, or the gulf of something. but he was taking photos and a solider came up and put out his hand to tell him to stop taking photos and when he started "neogiating", the solider aimed his gun at him... so my dad decided to take a photo of the solider aiming his gun at my dad... said he still has the photo somewhere

Lustrum

Taking a photo of the presidential palace in Nairobi we were confronted by 3 of the army that were on security there and made delete the photos.

I think those guys have a right to make you do it though, at least that's what their AK-47s said!

Little Alex

Mountainsandh wrote: »

Amelie ? the film ? there's a camera related explosion in it ???

Yep, there is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHIUGLEQ3hs

From 1:50 onwards.

Seriously though, my dad used to work in one of the fuel storage depots on Tolka Quay Extension so I'll ask him if there are any such restrictions.

Prenderb

thebaz wrote: »

you cant take photos in many places - prisons for example - the craziest one, is around Dublin port , I had the security around me , saying my camera posed a security risk , they said my tiny flash could cause an explosion , endangering the lives of many in Dublin - I'm serious - oh, and in an agressive manner asked me to leave

Slightly off topic I think, but there is a lot of oil products stored at the Port - petrol has a very low flash (pun intended!) point, so for the same reason as you're not supposed to use your mobile at the petrol pump I'd imagine they asked you to stop taking pics to keep the risk of accidental explosion as low as possible. Remember Buncefield?

Effects

You aren't allowed to use a mobile at the petrol pump so you will concentrate on putting the petrol in the car.

magicbastarder

that's the first time i've heard that explanation - the one i'd heard was that if you dropped the phone, the battery could spark as it was jolted from the phone.

Redrocket

keep a spare memory card on you, once photos are deleted, remove and store safely and replace with another card. this is to prevent the deleted photos from being over-written with new ones (precaution). run some file recovery software on the memory card and get photos back. I was amazed at what my non-fully formatted in 3 years 4gb sd card had on it, including the ones I was made delete.

jaybeeveedub

Prenderb wrote: »

Slightly off topic I think, but there is a lot of oil products stored at the Port - petrol has a very low flash (pun intended!) point, so for the same reason as you're not supposed to use your mobile at the petrol pump I'd imagine they asked you to stop taking pics to keep the risk of accidental explosion as low as possible. Remember Buncefield?

In fairness Buncefield wasn't a mobile phone at a pump, it was an endemic failure to implement anything resembling a thorough safety system....

Prenderb

jaybeeveedub wrote: »

In fairness Buncefield wasn't a mobile phone at a pump, it was an endemic failure to implement anything resembling a thorough safety system....

Agreed. The tank seems to have been allowed to overtop (past 2 alarms). But, it does seem that the resulting vapour cloud was "probably ignited by a spark caused by the firewater pump starting." (See P11 here)

This illustrates the point that in some places, such as oil storage locations, (even our humble Dublin Port) there might be a genuine reason behind not wanting people to operate items that might give off a spark - including cameras. I'm not necessarily saying they could give off a big enough spark, but I'm just illustrating the point.

However, the OP doesn't seem to have been in a potentially explosive atmosphere! Sorry for pulling the discussion OT there, folks.

I think I remember seeing signs up outside a shopping centre recently to the effect of "Private property, no commercial photography without permission." I suppose that's kinda fair enough, but being asked to delete images is a bit too far beyond being asked to stop. That said, if the instruction is "no commercial photography" and you've got an SLR or something similar it may be misenforced or overenforced.