Lets try again for that marathon...

Formosa

I have one aborted attempt at entering a marathon under my belt, around 3 or 4 years ago I followed one of the Higdon novice plans but the knees let me down once I was hitting the 16 mile mark or so.

While clearly Hal H has forgotten more about running than I’ll ever know, I’m going to ditch his plans and follow my own less intense programme.

If I aim for one of the 28th August marathons (Galway or Longford), that gives me 17 weeks from next Sunday.

I have run 6 Ballycotton 10s (82 m 20 sec this year) and a couple of halfs.

I’d be hoping to run a marathon in under 4 hours. (I am probably carrying 1-2 stone excess weight at the moment).

At the moment getting out 2 or 3 times a week for c. 5 miles per run.

I aim to start this weekend with a six miler, add a mile per weekend until 16 miles on 17 July, then go 18, 20, 22, 18 for next four weeks, leaving two weeks to go to the big day.

I will continue doing a 5ish miler twice midweek. I reckon that I’m not able for the levels of a proper plan eg 9 miles Wednesday, 18 weekend etc as per Hal Higdon.

Anyway, here goes nothing, if this one blows up at least I tried and it’s stick to the 10 miles forever more.

RayCun

Formosa wrote: »

I aim to start this weekend with a six miler, add a mile per weekend until 16 miles on 17 July, then go 18, 20, 22, 18 for next four weeks, leaving two weeks to go to the big day.

Rather than go up a mile every week, you should go up a couple of miles some weeks, but also include recovery weeks where you reduce the mileage. Eg 10, 12, 14, 10, 16, 18, 14. Look at the progression of the Higdon plans (or other plans) and you'll see that there isn't a constant increase.

Also, what pace are you planning to do these runs at? Will you be doing speedwork midweek?

Mr Slow

Formosa wrote: »

I’d be hoping to run a marathon in under 4 hours.

At the moment getting out 2 or 3 times a week for c. 5 miles per run.

I aim to start this weekend with a six miler, add a mile per weekend until 16 miles on 17 July, then go 18, 20, 22, 18 for next four weeks, leaving two weeks to go to the big day.

I will continue doing a 5ish miler twice midweek. I reckon that I’m not able for the levels of a proper plan eg 9 miles Wednesday, 18 weekend etc as per Hal Higdon.

1. You should incorporate a couple of step back weeks to allow your body to recover from the increase in training, you should also have a 3 week taper, you'll wreck yourself if you run 20 followed by 22.

2.You have to increase the midweek mileage, the LSR is vital but it's not just that,that will get you around.

3. If you're 'not able for a proper plan' you really shouldn't be thinking about running a marathon never mind with a time goal.

Finally, if you're going to go ahead you should join here

Good Luck.

Formosa

RayCun wrote: »

Rather than go up a mile every week, you should go up a couple of miles some weeks, but also include recovery weeks where you reduce the mileage. Eg 10, 12, 14, 10, 16, 18, 14. Look at the progression of the Higdon plans (or other plans) and you'll see that there isn't a constant increase.

Also, what pace are you planning to do these runs at? Will you be doing speedwork midweek?

Yes I must adjust to have a few step-back weeks.

I'll try running them slow ie 9 mins plus but I really struggle to do that , I always find myself going faster eg 8.30, 8.45....another reason why I got injured before I suppose.

Re midweek speedwork, I hadnt been considering it.

Formosa

mrslow wrote: »

1. You should incorporate a couple of step back weeks to allow your body to recover from the increase in training, you should also have a 3 week taper, you'll wreck yourself if you run 20 followed by 22.

2.You have to increase the midweek mileage, the LSR is vital but it's not just that,that will get you around.

3. If you're 'not able for a proper plan' you really shouldn't be thinking about running a marathon never mind with a time goal.

Finally, if you're going to go ahead you should join here

Good Luck.

My plan is very "agricultural" but realistically I will most likely increase the mid week runs if for no other reason then purely out of fear that I wont have enough done.

re point 3, you are of course 100% right and I had up to now abandoned ever trying to do one. I am taking my inspiration from a friend who has done 3 or 4 with the above basic preparation (but he is naturally a horse whereas I am anything but).

Mr Slow

Formosa wrote: »

Yes I must adjust to have a few step-back weeks.

I'll try running them slow ie 9 mins plus but I really struggle to do that , I always find myself going faster eg 8.30, 8.45....another reason why I got injured before I suppose.

Re midweek speedwork, I hadnt been considering it.

Then you need to run with others, click here

RayCun

If your usual training is 3 x 5 mile runs, all at the same pace, then it's not surprising that you start running into trouble when you dramatically increase the miles. If you learn to slow down, it will make the long runs much easier on your body. You'll also be able to do more runs in midweek, at a recovery pace.

Doing some faster runs will also help, improving your running form, your oxygen use, and your lactate threshold, but you will have to balance these runs against your longer runs and your need for recovery.

Mr Slow

Ray is mentoring other novices for DCM here , you'll get all the help and advice you need along the way.

Good Luck.

BrokenMan

If your knees let you down at 16 last time I wouldn't recommend doing a 22 miler at all in trainig. Cap your LSR at 20.
What was it that caused your knees to go? Wrong shoes? Stepping up too quickly? Underlying injury? If you can determine the route cause then you can take steps to avoid it happening again. Maybe a trip to a physio to see if there is some biomechanical weakness that can be worked on might help.

There are plenty of plans that dont incorporate a midweek longish run.

Also run Longford its a much better organised race than Galway.

menoscemo

Formosa wrote: »

I'll try running them slow ie 9 mins plus but I really struggle to do that , I always find myself going faster eg 8.30, 8.45....another reason why I got injured before I suppose.

If your target is 4 hours (realistic given your 10 mile times) then why are you running your LSR's faster than target (in fact just above your 10 mile pace)?
You need to slow down to 10 min/mile for LSR's, maybe concentrate on running only the last few miles of them a bit quicker.

I recently did a 3:24 marathon and most of my LSR's were in the 9:30-10 min/mile range. So don't think running slower will slow you down, in fact it will help you get through your programme fresh and uninjured.

Formosa

Saturday, 6 miles, 8m32 sec pace, too fast I know for LSR, will drop back the pace as these lengthen.

13st10lb.

Forgot to mention that I have spinning classes on a Monday evening, 7 to go (they have been cancelled for last 3 weeks due to Easter etc), back tonight.

Shouldnt do me any harm but might drop out of them in 3 or 4 weeks as mileage increases on the road.

Formosa

Monday, 40 mins spinning class, hid a bit in it but worked reasonably hard.

Work on Tuesday brought me to Galway where I stayed overnight so went for a run over there Wednesday morning.

Lovely place to run, despite ****e wind, rain & traffic.

5.50 miles in 8m32s pace. Tired enough at stages during it but always struggle that bit more with the early morning starts.

Incremental

Can sympathize with finding it difficult to slow down the long runs. I also blame this for getting niggling little injuries over the past couple of years.Lately I have started to introduce walking breaks into my runs so I can run them at a slower pace. According to stuff I have read (google - jeff galloway) this should aid in reducing injuries significantly.
P.S. To highlight this is from a newbie perspective, just started putting into practice now, 6 miles is longest I have run using this method.

Formosa

Right, an update.

Last Thursday went to the Castle Park (Kilkenny)…I really hate running there , bloody tough hills in the back field. Still, I must try tro get there once a week between now & D-Day.

According to Runkeeper I did 5.77 miles at 8m 44sec pace.

Saturday did 7 miles, 8m28 sec pace…I know I shouldn’t be doing the LSR faster than the midweeks, but I did try…1st mile was 8m50 but I see mile 4 was 8m10 (it was downhill & wind assisted). Anyway, I felt really comfortable after it, it was one of those really good runs that have me dying to get out again, which I will do tomorrow as spinning this evening.

Total mileage last week 18.3 and one spinning class.

Formosa

Tough spinning session Monday evening, tired and a bit tender yesterday (tuesday) but headed out after work.

From Watershed down to Park for 3 laps and back (all this is in Kilkenny btw).

5.63mile, 8m57s pace. I felt that I was going at my usual 8m30 pace but clearly not. Lots of climbing involved though, particularly the Black Quarry Hill on the was back which is an awful b1tch!

Rest today then a short trot tomorrow morning.

The weekend I am scheduled to do 13 miles is 26th June which is when the Strawberry Half in Enniscorthy is on. Unfortunately I am going to a wedding the Friday which won't be ideal preparation as it could be a tough drinking day. A bit away yet and I'll worry about that when I get there.

Formosa

4.47 miles at 7am yesterday, 8m13 pace.

Stiff as a board when I got up but that was kicked out of me after 1/4 mile.

Lovely morning for it.

Wednesday evening baked some flapjacks : http://britishfood.about.com/od/eorecipes/r/flapjack.htm

Threw in some sultanas aswell, they are lovely but a lot of fat / sugar goes into them. Had one pre run , certainly didn't do me any harm.

Formosa

Just in from 8 mile run (8.12 miles to be precise, 8m24sec pace.
Quite windy out, had it for most of the latter half. First time ever I listened to music while running, bit of a novelty and a nice distraction when I focused on it but for I think I could take it or leave it really.

Total miles this week 18.2 which is same as previous week.

I think I need to start getting over 20 from next week.

Formosa

Headed out at 6.40 this morning, what a lovely morning it was after the horrific weather yesterday.

Bit of a breeze in it still, but nothing too troublesome.

6.53 miles in 8m17 paces, quite tired at the end so once I hit 6 & a half I walked the remaining half mile home.

Formosa

Update:

Last Thursday after work, around the Castle Park , 5.7 miles, 8m23 pace. Felt it , being second day in a row (well about 34 hours or so after the Wednesday morning run).

Yesterday, Saturday, scheduled to do a 9 mile. family reasons have taken me to Staffordshire, UK so headed out with the bro in law, didnt measue it, ran for 63 mins so definitely less than 9 but very tough. He took me on a course a lot of which was cross country, including through one fiels of barley (along the edges), up several hills with clay and loose gravel underfoot, I nearly had to stop at one stage but carried on.

He has talked me into running a 6.2km orienteering course today , map in hand etc etc...have never done that before so will be interesting, he will run along with me in case I get hopelessly lost.

Nipped into Stafford yesterday afternoon, picked up a nice long sleeve asics top and matching shorts, £25. At least I'll look the part now anyway!

Formosa

Between one thing & another my orienteering run didnt happen yesterday, which was a pity so on arriving back in Kilkenny last night I ran a fast 4.5 miles, 7m54 pace. Had a lot of badness to run out of me from the weekend.

Re my post on 29/5, I am going to estimate that the Saturday run in Stafford was 7.50 miles, that gives me a total of 19.73 miles for the week (& no spinning class).

26 in the one days still sounds fairly daunting!!

Formosa

Castle Park again yesterday evening, very hot, drowned in sweat.

5.7 miles, 8m31 pace. Getting a bit more used to that treacherous Black Quarry Hill.

Due to various circumstances I have to switch my long run this weekend to Friday, and to Thursday then next week, hopefully back to normal again after that, but we runners don't like breaking our routine, do we?

Formosa

Friday, 3rd June, 10 miles, 8m32 sec pace. I tried to keep it slow and felt that I was running within myself, so happy enough with that aspect of it. Went just before 6pm, it was still around 27 degrees at that stage so that made it much more of a slog than it might have been.

Saturday, a small bit stiff and tired, went out for a short run to kick it out of the legs, 4.52 miles, 8m33 per mile pace.

Total for last week 24.78 miles which was quite a step up in distance from previous week.

Nothing Sunday or Monday, this morning (Tuesday) 7.5 miles, 8m24 pace. Felt nice & comfortable once I kicked out the niggles/stiffness in the first 1.5 miles. Nice morning for it, looking out now I'd say I got the best of the day.

PLan this week is 5ish miles tomorrow evening, 11 on Friday then a short run on Saturday...going to Galway for a stag Friday/Saturday after the run so Saturday run will be a good test of my willpower.

Formosa

5.7 miles around Castle Park in wet yesterday, Wednesday. Legs covered in muck. I can feel myself getting that bit stronger now.

Big one tomorrow, 11 miles...time to start getting psyched up.

Formosa

2 runs since my last post, plus a lot of drinking. Friday last I had a half day and got the long run in at 2pm, 11 miles, 8m43 pace. Fairly comfortable for most of it. Mile 8 has a longish climb which took a lot out of me. I took a lucozade gel at the top of it , was a bit of a boost for the closing few miles but I was fairly bet by the finish.

I found the gel a real bitch to open, must find some other brand that's a bit better in that regard.

Off to Galway then for a stag, packed the running gear but unfortunately it didnt see the light of day until Monday when I went out for a very sweaty 5.7 miles in the Castle Park.

24.24 miles total last week, a bit down on plans as I missed one run.

Hoping this week to do today (or tomorrow morning) and Thusday , with 12 miles on Saturday which should get me in around 28 miles for the week.

Formosa

Up early this morning, headed out at 7.40, unreal stiff...for the first mile I was barely lifting my feet or bending the knees. Got it out of me after that and went comfortably enough. Not for the first morning I seemed to have gotten the best part of the day.

According to Runkeeper I ran 7.28 miles, however I did the very same route last week which measured 7.54, which is a big difference. I wonder is the GPS on the iphone a bit dodgy?

Mapped it out there now on mapmyrun and it measured 7.44 miles!!

A small bit annoying but not hugely relevant in the overall scheme of things I suppose.

Formosa

Yesterday after work, 5.9 miles, 8m 34 pace, Castle park again. Lots of twitches & niggles but 2nd consecutive day which I'm not used too (albeit 7am Wed to 6pm Thurs is a day & a half). Have felt fine since thankfully.

12 miles to be done tomorrow, hope this storm has blown away by then.

13 miles scheduled for the following weekend which happens to coincide with Enniscorthy half so might aswell head on down for that, reports around this site are all good.

Formosa

Long run Saturday morning, 12 miles, 8m52sec pace.

I'm getting better on pace management, that was much slower than previous efforts. 1st 4 miles were averaging close to 8m35, got into a rhythm after that and ran fairly consistent 9 min miles.

Comfortable enough at the end of it, definitely moreso than the 11 & 10 milers of the previous two weekends.

Lucky with the weather too, a bit of a breeze and just the one shower for a couple of minutes.

Total miles last week : 31

Formosa

Quick update, 5.5 miles this evening, 8m19s pace.


Sore and stiff enough after the long run on Saturday.

Enjoyed sprawling out on the couch for the night like a lazy sod after it.

Formosa

Change of tack today, went to the track at lunchtime & ran 6 x 400s.

Times:

1'32.74
1'31.63
1'31.93
1'32.87
1'36.69
1'30.57

Took a lot out of me but was recovered OK fairly soon afterwards. I don't think I could have knocked much more than 5 ses off the fastest if I had to go flat out (I was always the slowest in the hurling club) so a reasonable effort put in.

I have signed up for Enniscorthy half on Sunday but have no real interest in smashing any records, will just treat it as a normal training run (says he, that will probably all change on the day!).

Formosa

5.56 miles yesterday according to Runkeeper, yet the identical route last week was 5.89. It told me my first mile was in 9m30secs, I was definitely going a good bit harder than that...so, I will call yesterday 5.89 miles.

Very hard going, legs tired and stiff from the 400ms of the day before, doing a different type of running was quite a strain.

Fine now though.

Wedding today, local one thankfully. I better keep the pints of Smithwicks to moderate levels with this Enniscorthy half on Sunday. I suppose a couple of miles tomorrow will sweat out a good percentage of the badness anyway...

Formosa

Following my wedding Friday and no run Saturday, I headed down to Enniscorthy this morning and it was definitely worth the trip.

Great event, glorious weather, top atmosphere. I decided I'd head out with the 2 hour pacers as while I can go harder it was a training run as far as I was concerned and also I wanted to practice going at 9 min plus miles.

Well done to the two lads, kept a very consistent pace and full of encouragement. I stayed with them until mile 8 then sped up a bit, but I hadn't a huge amount left in me to be honest.

I was very comfortable at the 2 hour pace which is a bit of a confidence booster from the point of view of marathon completions.

My splits today were : 9'02, 9'07, 8'58, 9'10, 9'08, 9'17, 8'48, 9'12, 8'40, 8'26, 8'34, 9'02, 8'06, 52 secs.

Total 1hr 56min 22sec.

Grand cup of tea after too.