How to get properly trained as a dev

G-Money

Just thought I'd start this as a separate thread as my last thread descended from looking for an ASP.net tutorial to needing a ground up understanding of programming, using C#.

Basically I already work in IT in the software end of things. There is a tiny bit of development work involved in my job but not much and it's all Perl scripting. I find it frustrating as it's very hard to read and we have no real useful debug tools to help work out what each variable contains etc, and an extremely limited environment in which to test anything. Perhaps I'm making excuses but for me, I find that incredibly difficult to work in.

Added to the fact that I've never been trained or educated as a programmer and my only knowledge of coding is from hacking together a few C# tools over the years and often not being sure why code is working, but just knowing it is through absence of error messages and the like.

I need and want to make some career changes and give myself more options on the job market and I feel development is something to focus on. It used to be my dream job back in the day but for various reasons, it never happened and I guess to a certain extent got distracted and lost interest.

I'd like to get a good thorough grounding on programming, be able to read code and understand it. To be able to see an error message like "overloaded method" and actually have a clue as to what that means rather than just thinking to myself "I wish they could write those things in english".

In my current job we got about an hours Perl training one day and that was it. While the guy giving the training was knowledgeable and helpful and very friendly, for me it was completely over my head. He seemed to assume we had a lot of knowledge when in fact I had none. He started talking about stuff being in a void context but I hadn't a clue what that was. That is just one example.

How do I get educated and trained up to become a proper developer? I'm looking at working with C# and .Net as it's something I have a little experience with and am already somewhat comfortable.

Thanks!

the_monkey

Maybe try doing some online tutorials, there are some very good ones I know in java and C/C++ - not sure for C# or .NET - I remember a few years back there wasn't many.

Some very good books around aswell, the Deitel & Deitel ones are excellent for beginners - they cover most languages.

The C++ D&D one is excellent - as is the Java.

"Ground up Java" by Heller is v good too.

Groinshot

the_monkey wrote: »

Maybe try doing some online tutorials, there are some very good ones I know in java and C/C++ - not sure for C# or .NET - I remember a few years back there wasn't many.

Some very good books around aswell, the Deitel & Deitel ones are excellent for beginners - they cover most languages.

The C++ D&D one is excellent - as is the Java.

"Ground up Java" by Heller is v good too.

+1 on the deitel & Deitel Java book!

HellFireClub

Apologies, meant to create a new thread...

BostonB

I'm a bit of self taught taught hack, jack of all trades. When I was trying to get to grips with some programming I got to play with some of the MS certification cram exams. They just batter you with questions, and score which I found a great way to learn the core concepts and stay interested. I intend going back to that at some point when time allows.

COYW

Groinshot wrote: »

+1 on the deitel & Deitel Java book!

Excellent book. My first programming book.

OP, real life programming is the best way of progressing as a programmer. I always tell any person looking to break into the .Net world to look for a junior dev role in a small company in which you will get hands on programming experience but more importantly experience with the software life-cycle as a whole. Given that you have some industrial experience, you stand an excellent chance of getting such a role, as you will be competing against graduates with no industrial experience or experience of working in the IT sector.

G-Money

I've found Deitel and Deitel books about C#. Anyone know if they are any good? I don't think I want to work on Java.

Groinshot

G-Money wrote: »

I've found Deitel and Deitel books about C#. Anyone know if they are any good? I don't think I want to work on Java.

Had a quick scan through your OP again and just want to point out- I had experience in c++ only, and last year was thrown in on top of this project involving C#, Basic and Arduino. I was able to easily manage all three (after some initial confusion.) My advice (and the advice of all the others on here too) would be learn how to program, not a programming language. Once you're comfortable in one, You all you need to do is learn the syntax for another, and google is your friend. Most people I know began learning Java as their first language, it's very easy to deal with in comparison with some of the other ones. I would honestly recommend picking up the Deitel book on java and giving it a go, and learning the syntax of C# later on, as I found it not as nice to work with so would guess it's harder to learn as a beginner.

Otherwise, I'd say go for the Deitel book, their java was so thorough I'd have to recommend it on that alone.

dvpower

G-Money wrote: »

Basically I already work in IT in the software end of things. There is a tiny bit of development work involved in my job but not much and it's all Perl scripting.

[...]

How do I get educated and trained up to become a proper developer? I'm looking at working with C# and .Net as it's something I have a little experience with and am already somewhat comfortable.

Thanks!

Can you try and get more opportunities in your current job to write more C# code or even start developing software off your own bat to automate some of the stuff you already do?

Nothing like on the job experience to help you learn - you'll understand what an overloaded method is as soon as you see one in software that you understand.

G-Money

dvpower wrote: »

Can you try and get more opportunities in your current job to write more C# code or even start developing software off your own bat to automate some of the stuff you already do?

Nothing like on the job experience to help you learn - you'll understand what an overloaded method is as soon as you see one in software that you understand.

I asked about that and was told no. The C# stuff is assigned out to other guys and reading between the lines, it's because I don't have enough C# knowledge and wouldn't get it done in time. I guess that's fair enough as I wouldn't know as much as these other guys.

Trojan

G-Money: setup a development environment on your home machine. What environment, what languages: up to you - figuring out what's best is half the fun. If you're not sure where to start, install any Linux, and KDevelop/gcc. Do a few Hello World type programs in 3-5 different languages and get them running. Play around a bit with the environment, see can you step through each line of execution etc. Then decide between self-driven learning (using online resources), or start a course (either paid or not paid by employer). Keep asking questions on here and we'll do our best to answer.

G-Money

Cheers Trojan.

I'm half interested in C# and Java and although I had kind of decided to go with C#, the Java aspect is still somewhat interesting. I guess career changes might dictate what language I end up going with, but I'm almost certain it will be either C# or Java.

I recently installed Linux on my laptop and have it dual booting with Windows 7. I'm tempted to write a small Java app and see it run on both platforms although I find Linux a bit of a pain to navigate and do anything with. Until they brought in that package installer thing, trying to install an app was a nightmare for me. I have to admit I'm fairly hardwired to Windows.

Trojan

G-Money wrote: »

I recently installed Linux on my laptop and have it dual booting with Windows 7. I'm tempted to write a small Java app and see it run on both platforms although I find Linux a bit of a pain to navigate and do anything with. Until they brought in that package installer thing, trying to install an app was a nightmare for me. I have to admit I'm fairly hardwired to Windows.

Ok, perfect! See if you can download the sources for your Linux kernel, compile them, and get your machine to boot with your kernel. I'd expect to take you several hours but is well doable.