Gerry and Kate Mcann promoting Book on Late Late next week

Silver Moon

Matthew23 wrote: »

I think something alot of people are missing in this debate is that why would the parents want to kill there kid? What would they have to be gained from that? Dont think they killed her.

very, very few people believe that the McCanns 'killed' their kid. I certainly dopn't believe that. I do, however, believe that they totally repsonsible for whatever happened to her.

Kess73

Matthew23 wrote: »

I think something alot of people are missing in this debate is that why would the parents want to kill there kid? What would they have to be gained from that? Dont think they killed her.

I am pretty sure that nobody in this thread said that the McCanns would have wanted to hurt or kill their own child in such a scenario.


What seems to be the most common train of thought amongst those who think that the McCanns might know what happened to their daughter and covered it up, is that some kind of accident happened (overdose of sleeping medicine, accidental fall etc) and that one or both parents may have panicked and covered it up, setting in motion an event that they had to allow to continue.


I think the idea of them actually killing their own child on purpose is a total nonrunner.

maebee

Matthew23 wrote: »

I think something alot of people are missing in this debate is that why would the parents want to kill there kid? What would they have to be gained from that? Dont think they killed her.

I do not believe that they wanted to kill their child. I could be wrong and hope I am but I suspect that Madeleine died accidentally in the apartment and that her body could not be presented for autopsy and had to be disposed of. How this was done, I do not know. Just my opinion.

Richard Dower

Silver Moon wrote: »

surely you mean four years of asking other people to search, asking other people to give you money, moaning about the Portugese police, moaning about the Portugese public, monaing about the media coverage, moaning about other people who didn't implicity believe 100% of what you say, and of course spening a huge amount of time and money threatening people with legal action if the do not toe the party line?

The McCanns have done zero searching - they are only interested in protecting their own backs. They are still getting Carter Ruck (at great expense) to send out 'cease and desist' demands to various websites. Team McCann are very frightened of the truth getting out, that much is clear.

http://mccannexposure.wordpress.com/2011/06/03/mccann-exposure-is-carter-rucked/

The theory there is they saw early on + past stories and how the media opperate, that they were going to become suspects....they went into self protect mode.....that seems normak, but i get why people say they were staging a coverup.

As for seatching, while techincally they have not physically looked in think any parent would do the same, use the media and others to look. Yes initially the first few days a parent would look, but you could also say they were in shock.

Matthew23

Richard Dower wrote: »

The theory is she died by accident, they panicked...disposed of the body etc.
Or perhaps Maddie was being difficult or something and Kate by accident killed her, the hubby covered it up.

Pure speculation, it reminds me of that UK nanny thing, in that case i honestly belive the child died by accident....it wasn't deliberate.

Ah ok thought people were saying they killed her :eek:

AudreyHepburn

Silver Moon wrote: »

surely you mean four years of asking other people to search, asking other people to give you money, moaning about the Portugese police, moaning about the Portugese public, monaing about the media coverage, moaning about other people who didn't implicity believe 100% of what you say, and of course spening a huge amount of time and money threatening people with legal action if the do not toe the party line?

The McCanns have done zero searching - they are only interested in protecting their own backs. They are still getting Carter Ruck (at great expense) to send out 'cease and desist' demands to various websites. Team McCann are very frightened of the truth getting out, that much is clear.

http://mccannexposure.wordpress.com/2011/06/03/mccann-exposure-is-carter-rucked/

No I meant what I said. Nice try though.

Look they have two other children, they have jobs, they families and friends. They can't possibly devote themselves 24/7 to searching.

Sure if they did that I bet they'd be accused of neglected Sean and Amelie.

Richard Dower

Silver Moon wrote: »

very, very few people believe that the McCanns 'killed' their kid. I certainly dopn't believe that. I do, however, believe that they totally repsonsible for whatever happened to her.

In what way?....directly responsible or by way of leaving her in the hotel?
In HINDSIGHT, yes...it was a mistake to leave the children alone....but, i can see there POV on the night.

It never ever occured to them leaving the kids in bed alone would result in what happened to Maddie.

AudreyHepburn

Matthew23 wrote: »

Ah ok thought people were saying they killed her :eek:

In fairness I think some people do think that. Others say it was an accident that the McCanns coldly covered up and having been lying about for four years.

Richard Dower

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

In fairness I think some people do think that. Others say it was an accident that the McCanns coldly covered up and having been lying about for four years.

I think the common thread is what another poster said, and also stated by both the Portugal and UK police, accidental death but deliberate act/coverup on the part of the parents.

Silver Moon

Richard Dower wrote: »

In what way?....directly responsible or by way of leaving her in the hotel?
In HINDSIGHT, yes...it was a mistake to leave the children alone....but, i can see there POV on the night.

It never ever occured to them leaving the kids in bed alone would result in what happened to Maddie.

then they are complete and utter idiots. Why did it not occur to them that Madeleine could have a serious accident? Why did it not even occur to them Madeleine could wake up in the night, afraid, alone, in the dark, in unfamiliar surroundings?

AND it wasn't just 'on the night' was it? It was every night! Even Kate McCann claims that the on Wednesday 2nd May she got annoyed with Gerry for leaving her and her friends at the bar at 11.50pm! It was nearly midnight and she got upset that her husband 'got up abruptly' to go back to the apartment. The McCanns - and their friends - make pathetic excuse for parents.

Matthew23

Richard Dower wrote: »

I think the common thread is what another poster said, and also stated by both the Portugal and UK police, accidental death but deliberate act/coverup on the part of the parents.

But why would they do that? if there child was dead why wouldnt they just bring her to the hospital or something. Makes no sense.

lugha

maebee wrote: »

Dr. Katrina Gaspar didn't think so. It alarmed her so much that she felt the need to report it to the police. He didn't pat his head and rub his stomach. He put his finger in and out of his mouth and did the circular motion on his nipple. Very disturbing.

Yes, she reported it. But after Madeleine went missing, no? It would carry a lot more weight if she reported before.

And I said it was similar, not the same, as the head patting trick we did as kids. And it is very difficult to do (try it :pac:) and probably beyond the ability of a 2 year old, it has to be said.

But you ignore the rather large elephant I placed in front of you. Why would two people went paedophile tendencies risk exposing themselves? It seems utterly implausible to me.

And if Madeleine died accidentally, which is what I believe you think happened, then what is the relevance of any of this?

Silver Moon

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

No I meant what I said. Nice try though.

Look they have two other children, they have jobs, they families and friends. They can't possibly devote themselves 24/7 to searching.

Sure if they did that I bet they'd be accused of neglected Sean and Amelie.

Gerry has a job - though he seems to get plenty of time off. Kate has never returned to her job as a part-time GP.

They had plenty of time between May and September 2007 to do some seartching and they didn't exactly do much then.

Silver Moon

Matthew23 wrote: »

But why would they do that? if there child was dead why wouldnt they just bring her to the hospital or something. Makes no sense.

because it would expose their negligence and leave them - and their friends - in danger of losing the jobs, their homes, their reputations and their other children

Richard Dower

Silver Moon wrote: »

then they are complete and utter idiots. Why did it not occur to them that Madeleine could have a serious accident? Why did it not even occur to them Madeleine could wake up in the night, afraid, alone, in the dark, in unfamiliar surroundings?

AND it wasn't just 'on the night' was it? It was every night! Even Kate McCann claims that the on Wednesday 2nd May she got annoyed with Gerry for leaving her and her friends at the bar at 11.50pm! It was nearly midnight and she got upset that her husband 'got up abruptly' to go back to the apartment. The McCanns - and their friends - make pathetic excuse for parents.

Well bad parenting is a separate debate, this is about how Maddie died. But i get your point that bad parenting lead to her death, but then again people make bad choices all the time.

I make them daily, *IF* Kate did do something God will have her on his list, trust me!.....she'll suffer for that decision in his life and her eternity in another [if you're going to that dark place]

Richard Dower

Matthew23 wrote: »

But why would they do that? if there child was dead why wouldnt they just bring her to the hospital or something. Makes no sense.

The logical conclusion is, by extension....one or both parents played a big part in her accidental death, they panicked. Logically a man would be more capable of hiding or disposing of the body.

The only theory i can think of is self preservation, knowing whatever caused Maddie's death would lead to jail time, so they covered it up. My personal theory is Kate by accident killed Maddie, the husband disposed of the body.

Thus both were in it and had to protect each other.

dark crystal

Silver Moon wrote: »

because it would expose their negligence and leave them - and their friends - in danger of losing the jobs, their homes, their reputations and their other children

You honestly think that was the first thought that ran through their minds on discovering their dead daughter??

You believe that instead of becoming distraught and shocked on discovering the dead body of their daughter, they instead coldly planned to dispose of her like a piece of old carpet to protect their careers and that of their friends? Then spend the next four years keeping this heinous crime in the headlines?

Sorry, it would take a special kind of sociopath, with no emotions towards their child whatsoever, to do such a thing. It makes no sense at all.

I won't even begin to go into when they would have had the time to discover and then dispose of their child during the period they had available.

maebee

lugha wrote: »

Why would two people went paedophile tendencies risk exposing themselves? It seems utterly implausible to me.

QUOTE]

I have absolutely no idea why DP allowed himself to be heard by Katrina Gaspar when he was making these remarks. Maybe he spoke in an unguarded moment, let it slip, didn't think she could hear him. I don't know. I just happen to believe her.

And if Madeleine died accidentally, which is what I believe you think happened, then what is the relevance of any of this?

I'm repeating myself here so for the last time, I believe that Madeleine died accidentally and that her body could not be presented for autopsy because it could have shown signs of abuse. I hope that I am wrong but after four years of following this tragic case, sadly, this is my belief.

Silver Moon

dark crystal wrote: »

You honestly think that was the first thought that ran through their minds on discovering their dead daughter??

You believe that instead of becoming distraught and shocked on discovering the dead body of their daughter, they instead coldly planned to dispose of her like a piece of old carpet to protect their careers and that of their friends? Then spend the next four years keeping this heinous crime in the headlines?

Sorry, it would take a special kind of sociopath, with no emotions towards their child whatsoever, to do such a thing. It makes no sense at all.

I won't even begin to go into when they would have had the time to discover and then dispose of their child during the period they had available.

I doubt it was their first thought. But it might have been their second or third thought.

We don't know how much time they had available because there remains no conclusive evidence of when Madeleine was last seen alive. Independent sighting of Madeleine are very thin on the ground.

iamwhoiam

Mountainsandh wrote: »

She only reported it to the police after Madeleine McCann was presumably abducted.

She didn't think it worth reporting to the police before the child's disappearance.

Have you never thought about something in hindsight and altough it bothered you you never said it out loud .Then suddenly something made you sit up and think about it and maybe , just maybe it might help a little lost girl ?

TheZohanS

dark crystal wrote: »

You honestly think that was the first thought that ran through their minds on discovering their dead daughter??

You believe that instead of becoming distraught and shocked on discovering the dead body of their daughter, they instead coldly planned to dispose of her like a piece of old carpet to protect their careers and that of their friends? Then spend the next four years keeping this heinous crime in the headlines?

Sorry, it would take a special kind of sociopath, with no emotions towards their child whatsoever, to do such a thing. It makes no sense at all.

I won't even begin to go into when they would have had the time to discover and then dispose of their child during the period they had available.

This is all hypothetical at this stage, but say the McCanns sedated Madeline and the twins, that would explain why the twins slept the whole time afterwards and it would also stop Madeline and the twins from crying and the neighbours hearing them again, and Madeline stopped breathing and died. Then you're left in a situation where you're responsible for the death of your daughter and that's jail-time in the UK and Portugal not to mention the world would hate you afterwards. They would have lost custody of the twins, lost their jobs, and would never have been able to live in the UK again. They would have lost everything. They're doctors, smart people, they would have known this, any doctor would know this.

Considering what would have happened, had they been responsible for the death of their daughter, covering up the accidental death of Madeline to save the twins, family, friends, jobs and way of life doesn't really take a huge leap of faith to believe.

maebee

Kate McCann: I believe kidnapper drugged my twins on the night Madeleine was taken


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1386093/Kate-McCann-Kidnapper-drugged-twins-night-Madeleine-taken.html#comments

dark crystal

TheZohan wrote: »

Considering what would have happened, had they been responsible for the death of their daughter, covering up the accidental death of Madeline to save the twins, family, friends, jobs and way of life doesn't really take a huge leap of faith to believe.

Sorry, it makes no sense to me as a parent at all. My career and that of my friends would never have entered my mind - not for one second.

Any way you look at the timelines, there is no way any parent would have discovered a dead child, hidden the body somewhere (where to this day, has never been found) and come up with such a cold and calculating plan in the time space specified.
When Kate and Gerry were having dinner with their friends, what parent who has discovered a dead child, would simply carry on eating and drinking as if they hadn't a care in the world, allowing others to check on the room? This is what we're expected to believe, if you think she was discovered between 5.30 and 10.30.

If she was discovered during dinner, when Kate raised the alarm, how on earth did they have time to check on the child, find her dead, dispose of her body, raise the alarm and then call the police?

You say it doesn't take a huge leap to believe that - for me, if it were written by Agatha Christie I still wouldn't believe it possible. Human nature would dictate that no parent, with any love for a child at all, would be able to act so monsterously and keep it up for years afterwards.

By all accounts, the McCanns were loving parents, who tried for years to have that child. Why would they suddenly become callous child killers, who put their careers and friends before their daughter's life and then encourage public and media scrutiny for years afterwards, just to be that extra bit more dangerously callous?

This is what I'm not buying, more than anything else.

Silver Moon

dark crystal wrote: »

Sorry, it makes no sense to me as a parent at all. My career and that of my friends would never have entered my mind - not for one second.

Any way you look at the timelines, there is no way any parent would have discovered a dead child, hidden the body somewhere (where to this day, has never been found) and come up with such a cold and calculating plan in the time space specified.

When Kate and Gerry were having dinner with their friends, what parent who has discovered a dead child, would simply carry on eating and drinking as if they hadn't a care in the world, allowing others to check on the room? This is what we're expected to believe, if you think she was discovered between 5.30 and 10.30.

If she was discovered during dinner, when Kate raised the alarm, how on earth did they have time to check on the child, find her dead, dispose of her body, raise the alarm and then call the police?

You say it doesn't take a huge leap to believe that - for me, if it were written by Agatha Christie I still wouldn't believe it possible. Human nature would dictate that no parent, with any love for a child at all, would be able to act so monsterously and keep it up for years afterwards.

By all accounts, the McCanns were loving parents, who tried for years to have that child. Why would they suddenly become callous child killers, who put their careers and friends before their daughter's life and then encourage public and media scrutiny for years afterwards, just to be that extra bit more dangerously callous?

This is what I'm not buying, more than anything else.

The timelines have been invented by the McCanns and their friends - the PJ couldn't make the timelines work, which is why they asked for a reconstruction of the events of 3rd May. As we know, the McCanns and their friends refused to take part - which is the main reason why we have this impass.


And please stop repeating your claim that other people are calling the McCanns 'child killers' - it does your defence of them no good.

iamwhoiam

maebee wrote: »

Kate McCann: I believe kidnapper drugged my twins on the night Madeleine was taken


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1386093/Kate-McCann-Kidnapper-drugged-twins-night-Madeleine-taken.html#comments

Any mother I know who thought her babies had been drugged would have called for an ambulance and had them tested .Why did Kate not while she tought that ?
A doctor knows full well how the dosage given to a child must be calculated and so would know that they are at risk of an over dose .yet she states she thought that and carried on leaving them in their cots asleep ?

And as for a kidnapper walking in and giving three small children drugs .Well I spent my life on ward and believe me its not an easy task to give toddlers medicine when asleep .They wake up cross , its a struggle to get them to open their mouths and anyone who can give three small kids a medicine without spits on their clothes and most likely on the sheets I raise my hat to him or her .

dark crystal

Silver Moon wrote: »

The timelines have been invented by the McCanns and their friends - the PJ couldn't make the timelines work, which is why they asked for a reconstruction of the events of 3rd May. As we know, the McCanns and their friends refused to take part - which is the main reason why we have this impass.


And please stop repeating your claim that other people are calling the McCanns 'child killers' - it does your defence of them no good.

If you believe two parents caused their child's death, accidentally or otherwise, then you believe them to be child killers, no? Besides, I didn't claim anyone was calling them such. I used the phrase myself in my own post.

If the PJ couldn't make the timelines work, it must automatically be because the McCanns are lying is it? That is a convienient theory for the anti McCann brigade, who always use the fail safe liars argument whenever the timelines are brought up. What proof is there that the McCanns and their friends were deliberately lying about timelines that day?

Were there any witnesses who saw them at dinner, at the bar, calling for help from the apartment? Yes.

Were there any witnesses who saw the McCanns disposing of their daughter's body? No.

Silver Moon

Don't forget, Dr Kate Healey wasn't just any old doctor. She was a GP who had previously trained as an anesthetist. It is beyohnd belief that she didn't know that if you have any suspicion that someone - let alone toddlers - has been sedated then you call an ambulance PDQ.

Silver Moon

dark crystal wrote: »

If you believe two parents caused their child's death, accidentally or otherwise, then you believe them to be child killers, no? Besides, I didn't claim anyone was calling them such. I used the phrase myself in my own post.

If the PJ couldn't make the timelines work, it must automatically be because the McCanns are lying is it? That is a convienient theory for the anti McCann brigade, who always use the fail safe liars argument whenever the timelines are brought up. What proof is there that the McCanns and their friends were deliberately lying about timelines that day?

Were there any witnesses who saw them at dinner, at the bar, calling for help from the apartment? Yes.

Were there any witnesses who saw the McCanns disposing of their daughter's body? No.

if somebody in your responsbility dies accidently that does not make you a 'killer'

The McCanns and their friends are proven liars. That in itself does not make guilty of anything other than lying - however I am satisfied in my own mind that all of the Tapas 9 are guilty of much more than just lying and I remain confident that one day they will properly face the consequences of their actions.

_feedback_

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Three I asked this before but it was never answered. The main factor that lead me to believe Kate and Gerry are innocent is simply the amount of time and effort they have put into finding Madeleine. Four years of searching. You would have to be the most evil, physcopathic people on earth to be able to do what they've been doing all these years if you had killed your daughter. Do they really truely honestly strike people as that? Honest answers please.

I don't really agree with that. Of course if they "killed" her, that on it's own takes evil. But covering up some details and digging a hole year after year is just stupid in my opinion. They are in it so deep that they can't just stop. I don't think it takes the extreme levels of evil you say. They don't seem normal to me certainly and a lot of what they have done is pretty stupid.

TheZohanS

dark crystal wrote: »

Sorry, it makes no sense to me as a parent at all. My career and that of my friends would never have entered my mind - not for one second.

Any way you look at the timelines, there is no way any parent would have discovered a dead child, hidden the body somewhere (where to this day, has never been found) and come up with such a cold and calculating plan in the time space specified.
When Kate and Gerry were having dinner with their friends, what parent who has discovered a dead child, would simply carry on eating and drinking as if they hadn't a care in the world, allowing others to check on the room? This is what we're expected to believe, if you think she was discovered between 5.30 and 10.30.

If she was discovered during dinner, when Kate raised the alarm, how on earth did they have time to check on the child, find her dead, dispose of her body, raise the alarm and then call the police?

You say it doesn't take a huge leap to believe that - for me, if it were written by Agatha Christie I still wouldn't believe it possible. Human nature would dictate that no parent, with any love for a child at all, would be able to act so monsterously and keep it up for years afterwards.

By all accounts, the McCanns were loving parents, who tried for years to have that child. Why would they suddenly become callous child killers, who put their careers and friends before their daughter's life and then encourage public and media scrutiny for years afterwards, just to be that extra bit more dangerously callous?

This is what I'm not buying, more than anything else.

As a parent if, god forbid, something happened to one of your children, would you do everything in your power to protect your other children? You said that you wouldn't think of career or friends but you didn't mention anything about other children.
Bear in mind if you were convicted or killing your daughter, were put in jail and lost custody of your other children then chances are they'd want to have nothing to do with you when they're old enough to understand what had happened. You lose everything.

I am not for one second calling them callous killers, all I'm doing here is keeping an open mind. You asked why might someone cover up the death of their daughter and I gave you a plausible answer.