Gerry and Kate Mcann promoting Book on Late Late next week

Johro

maebee wrote: »

http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2010/05/mccanns-release-madeleines-lolita-photo.html

Mark Williams-Thomas questions the 'appropriateness' of the new Madeleine photo.

'Em yeah.. that photo was very inappropriate I thought, I can't seem to find it... Ah here it is!' :rolleyes:
To be honest though, it's just a pic of a little girl who's been playing with her mothers eyeshadow. A bit of an overreaction there.
It's not like she's provocatively posed in a little bikini or something.
I'm as much aware as the next guy of the need to be careful with pictures of children going public, especially online, I'd imagine though that the McCanns would've been happy to use any pic of Madeleine that might help locate her.
If it was my little girl who was missing, I'd have no hesitation in flooding the world's media with her pictures in the hope one of them might jog someone's memory of seeing her.

mrsbyrne

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Oh I do completely agree with this, I genuinely didn't know the PJ had made their records publically available or I'd have read them long before now.

I'll let you know the outcome of my reading the files.

Audrey,be carefull, maebee is repeatedly referencing this blog
http://www.mccannfiles.com/index.html in a manner which implies that it is the official Portuguese police files regarding this case. mccannfiles is nothing more than an extreme anti-mccann blog which has carefully and cunningly put an anti-mccann spin on extracts from the files. maebee has actually referenced almost every anti-mccann blog in her post here, all the time failing to explain that they are blogs, people opinions, nothing more. strangely enough she fails to reference the website to which she has just paid a visit, the arch mccann hate site http://missingmadeleine.forumotion.net/forum, were she has been a long-time poster, asking them to supply her with photos of madeleine
http://missingmadeleine.forumotion.net/t15522-help-needed-with-a-pic-of-madeleine
I suggest you all take a really good look and ask yourselves why maebee doesnt refer you there as a source of information.

DexyDrain

mrsbyrne wrote: »

Audrey,be carefull, maebee is repeatedly referencing this blog
http://www.mccannfiles.com/index.html in a manner which implies that it is the official Portuguese police files regarding this case. mccannfiles is nothing more than an extreme anti-mccann blog which has carefully and cunningly put an anti-mccann spin on extracts from the files. maebee has actually referenced almost every anti-mccann blog in her post here, all the time failing to explain that they are blogs, people opinions, nothing more. strangely enough she fails to reference the website to which she has just paid a visit, the arch mccann hate site http://missingmadeleine.forumotion.net/forum, were she has been a long-time poster, asking them to supply her with photos of madeleine
http://missingmadeleine.forumotion.net/t15522-help-needed-with-a-pic-of-madeleine
I suggest you all take a really good look and ask yourselves why maebee doesnt refer you there as a source of information.

Back up the truck a bit there. The police files are there for anyone to read, even though I speak portugese you don't have to to get an accurate representation as to what is in them. I seriously challenge you to go through the files and find 'pro-McCann' spin in there too. It's a futile search.

It is very fair and accurate to say that the working hypothesis of the British team and Portugese team during the investigation was that the parents concealed the body of Madeleine, that they did not believe the statements made by the group and they believed they were searching for a body, not a missing person. That is the content of reports signed off by the Chief Inspector and statements made by world class experts like Mark Harrison and Martin Grime.

I don't particularly care what other forums contributors to the thread frequent, as long as they get their facts straight in the discussion.

Little Acorn

mrsbyrne wrote: »

Audrey,be carefull, maebee is repeatedly referencing this blog
http://www.mccannfiles.com/index.html in a manner which implies that it is the official Portuguese police files regarding this case. mccannfiles is nothing more than an extreme anti-mccann blog which has carefully and cunningly put an anti-mccann spin on extracts from the files. maebee has actually referenced almost every anti-mccann blog in her post here, all the time failing to explain that they are blogs, people opinions, nothing more. strangely enough she fails to reference the website to which she has just paid a visit, the arch mccann hate site http://missingmadeleine.forumotion.net/forum, were she has been a long-time poster, asking them to supply her with photos of madeleine
http://missingmadeleine.forumotion.net/t15522-help-needed-with-a-pic-of-madeleine
I suggest you all take a really good look and ask yourselves why maebee doesnt refer you there as a source of information.

I don't know for sure if there is a bias on that site [McCann Files.Com] or not, it clearly states what parts come from newspapers, and what parts are the official files.
It was actually that site that showed me the official forensic reports, and why the evidence was far too weak to say it was definitely Madeline's dna found.
If you want just the files with no newspaper articles here is a site containing the official PJ files with images of the actual files themselves and translations provided. There are literally thousands of documents, but they also have a search box to narrow down what you're looking for.
These are the official files that were released on 4th August 2008.
I haven't gone through the whole site yet, so apologies if I'm wrong, but so far it seems to be just the files with no commentary on them or anything else.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/

TommyTippee

For those of you interested, please read the real-life case of Jeffrey MacDonald for so many parallels to the McCann case.

Particularly note his refusal to change his story against overwhelming forensic and circumstantial evidence ("Trial and Conviction" section in the Wikipedia link)
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Scales-Justice-Murders-Kimberley-MacDonald/dp/1425734472/ref=sr_1_16?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_MacDonaldie=UTF8&qid=1307583261&sr=8-16
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Above-Suspicion-Dr-Jeffrey-Macdonald/dp/0748514872/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1307583303&sr=8-1

Also note MacDonald's commission of a book to explain all, in which you can read his courting of the media as his alleged innocence was accepted by the public and the subsequent requests for donations from his family and friends

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatal_Vision

AND MOST IMPORTANTLY:

His television interview, before he was finally convicted, where he jokes about his accusers.

WHO DOES THIS REMIND YOU OF?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWrLpng7xsM

This interview was his downfall, as his murdered wife's family found holes in his recollection of the nights events.

The McCanns abduction theory is bullsh*t. They know it, I know it and someday we will all know it.

maebee

mrsbyrne wrote: »

Audrey,be carefull, maebee is repeatedly referencing this blog
http://www.mccannfiles.com/index.html in a manner which implies that it is the official Portuguese police files regarding this case.

What do you mean "Audrey, Be careful?" This is a site where Portuguese people have translated the Official Police Files and as such, I directed Audrey there as she said she didn't know they were available online.

mccannfiles is nothing more than an extreme anti-mccann blog which has carefully and cunningly put an anti-mccann spin on extracts from the files.

That is your opinion. I am not a member of mccannfiles.com and have never posted there. I just use it as a reference point to view the files.

maebee has actually referenced almost every anti-mccann blog in her post here, all the time failing to explain that they are blogs, people opinions, nothing more.

I don't think I need to explain that the MM & MCF sites are blogs & peoples' opinions. Of course they are. mccannfiles.com is different in that it is a compilation of the translated files.

strangely enough she fails to reference the website to which she has just paid a visit, the arch mccann hate site http://missingmadeleine.forumotion.net/forum, were she has been a long-time poster, asking them to supply her with photos of madeleine
http://missingmadeleine.forumotion.net/t15522-help-needed-with-a-pic-of-madeleine
I suggest you all take a really good look and ask yourselves why maebee doesnt refer you there as a source of information.

I have mentioned and posted links to missingmadeleine.com many times in this thread. I make no qualms about requesting the photo I was looking for. (The one which ex-Police Officer & Child Protection Expert, MWT was unhappy abou). Unlike many on MM & MCF, I don't keep a Madeleine File on my pc and when I am looking for something in particular I request it. Simple as.
I am a long-time poster on MM and on MCF, the same as I am on boards.ie.

I became interested in the case of missing Madeleine when I saw her parents out jogging days after she disappeared and I felt very uneasy about them when I saw them coming out of the church in PDL on May 12th 2007 smiling like they'd won the lotto. I would dearly love to know what happened to this beautiful little girl and I hope that one day those who are responsible for her disappearance are brought to justice.

dark crystal

TommyTippee wrote: »

Macdonald/dp/0748514872/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1307583303&sr=8-1



The McCanns abduction theory is bullsh*t. They know it, I know it and someday we will all know it.

Well, when you put it like that, they MUST be guilty! I mean, killing one's spouse in a fit of rage or jealousy or greed is the same as disposing of your beloved daughter as if she was rubbish in order to save your own skin, whilst continuing to both pretend to grieve and expose yourself to the scrutiny of the police, public and media years afterwards

This is descending into a conspiracy theory thread now at this stage and having looked at some of the other websites quoted here, dedicated soley to try and paint Gerry and Kate McCann as callous child murderers and their friends as liars, conspirators and swingers, it's not something I have any interest in taking part in, tbh.

I've still not been anywhere near convinced that these people had any hand nor part in ther child's death or been given any viable explaination as to how, where or when they had the oppurtunity to dispose of her body.

With all due respect, I will leave the thread and continue to believe in the McCanns innocence until they are proven otherwise by indisputable proof in a court of law. I doubt anyone who believes in the innocence of the McCanns will change anyone else's mind and we are in the vast minority here, so it is becoming futile at this stage to try and put our arguments across.

Like everyone else here, I hope the perpertrators are one day brought to justice, whoever they are and Madeleine and her family can finally find some peace.

AudreyHepburn

Hang on, is the link Maebee referred me to genuine or not? I'm confused.


I'd like to know from some-one unbiased please. I would like to read the files but only if they are the real thing.

prinz

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Hang on, is the link Maebee referred me to genuine or not? I'm confused. I'd like to know from some-one unbiased please..

Good luck finding that. Anyone who even approaches objectivity on this case is automatically accused of bias.

DexyDrain

Dark crystal, I think you are trying to argue that the balance of probabilities are equal until a group of normal, off the street folks are persuaded which scenario is beyond more doubt than others. Juries are not some class of alien species who have supernatural powers of deduction. They review the evidence and decide what explanation best fits the facts established.

Forum posters do not have the power to enforce punishments, therefore the standard of argument and proof need not be near as high, but it is plainly ridiculous to claim no one can review the evidence yet not come up with some perfectly valid, defensible conclusions that stand up to argument.

The facts are that only a tiny, tiny percentage of children are abducted from their beds, the overwhelming majority fall victim to a family member, relative or person within their social circle. The parents were the last to see her, there is a window of 5 hours between an independent witness seeing her and the alarm being officially raised. A child is missing, cadaver dogs pick up the scent in the last known location (and only there) and the accounts given by the parents are friends do not leave a window wide enough for a stranger to kill someone and remove the body after leaving it long enough to leave these traces.

I think it is beyond reason to claim that the balance of probabilities in this case of the parents/friends guilt or innocence in concealing the body versus a stranger abduction that leaves absolutely no forensic indication of entry/exit are equal until proven otherwise. It's just unreasonable. Neither can be definitively proven at present, that does not mean by a long shot that they are equally likely and we should presume that they are until a jury are so persuaded.

'Innocent until proven guilty' protects innocent people from unjust punishment, it is not meant to protect every single person from reasonable scrutiny in public or in private.

sunflower27

TommyTippee wrote: »

For those of you interested, please read the real-life case of Jeffrey MacDonald for so many parallels to the McCann case.


The McCanns abduction theory is bullsh*t. They know it, I know it and someday we will all know it.

Cheers for that, what a crazy story - was he a doctor? - but he got his come-uppance and I hope you are right and the McCanns get theirs too.

Just goes to prove the point that peolpe are capable of compartmentalising horrendous crimes and dealing with them. You don't have to look and act psychotic to be that way.

ETA: Jeffrey Robert MacDonald (born October 12, 1943), is an American convicted in 1979 for the murders of his pregnant wife and two daughters in February 1970. At the time of the murders, MacDonald was an Army officer, medical doctor and practicing physician. MacDonald maintains that a group of Charles Manson-type hippies committed the crimes and has filed several unsuccessful appeals attempting to overturn his convictions.

DexyDrain

You should look up Diane Downs, she pulled up on a dark road, reached around and shot her three kids at point blank range, then crawled to the hospital at 5mph to give them time to die before shooting herself in the arm near the hospital. She claimed a mystery stranger tried to take her car then shot them all. She loved doing TV interviews and police reconstructions, she became very comfortable and accustomed to the glare of publicity.
http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=r3riAV60rKc

The sad fact is that one of the leading causes of death in children is intentional/accidental killing at the hands of their parents or close family.

TheZohanS

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Hang on, is the link Maebee referred me to genuine or not? I'm confused.


I'd like to know from some-one unbiased please. I would like to read the files but only if they are the real thing.

Yes the link Maebee gave you is correct and unbiased.

Click here and you can read both the scanned PJ documents(57 page report) or you can read the files in regular text.

Keyzer

DexyDrain wrote: »

You should look up Diane Downs, she pulled up on a dark road, reached around and shot her three kids at point blank range, then crawled to the hospital at 5mph to give them time to die before shooting herself in the arm near the hospital. She claimed a mystery stranger tried to take her car then shot them all. She loved doing TV interviews and police reconstructions, she became very comfortable and accustomed to the glare of publicity.
http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=r3riAV60rKc

The sad fact is that one of the leading causes of death in children is intentional/accidental killing at the hands of their parents or close family.

Absolutely no point in referencing this incident at imo - it has nothing to do with the McCanns.

DexyDrain

Keyzer wrote: »

Absolutely no point in referencing this incident at imo - it has nothing to do with the McCanns.

It has everything to do with the proposition claimed by some that a scenario where a child dies accidentally or otherwise, her body hidden followed by a massive publicity and PR machine generated by a guilty party is unreasonable. There are many, many cases where this is exactly what happened, the argument it is improbable does not hold water in most cases like these, I used that single case to illustrate the point.

Whatever about the McCanns, I think it is relevant to the course of the discussion.

K-9

Keyzer wrote: »

Absolutely no point in referencing this incident at imo - it has nothing to do with the McCanns.

It shows that it is possible the McCann's could have done something similar. Very unlikely albeit, but some posters are open to the suggestion, others don't even want to contemplate it. It isn't a nice thing to imagine, still doesn't mean these type of cases never happen as some appear to be suggesting.

The big question for me is, where did they hide Madeline between her "kidnapping" and when they hired the car? 3 weeks later.

maebee

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Hang on, is the link Maebee referred me to genuine or not? I'm confused.

I'd like to know from some-one unbiased please. I would like to read the files but only if they are the real thing.

I'm struggling not to take offence here. They ARE the real thing.
mccannfiles.com is a site where Portuguese posters (genuine) have translated the released police files from Portuguese to English. You can look elsewhere for them and you will find the same thing.

TheZohanS

maebee wrote: »

I'm struggling not to take offence here. They ARE the real thing.
mccannfiles.com is a site where Portuguese posters (genuine) have translated the released police files from Portuguese to English. You can look elsewhere for them and you will find the same thing.

The Police have actually translated the files with Police translators!

maebee

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Hang on, is the link Maebee referred me to genuine or not? I'm confused.


I'd like to know from some-one unbiased please. I would like to read the files but only if they are the real thing.

I've just seen Little Acorn's post:

If you want just the files with no newspaper articles here is a site containing the official PJ files with images of the actual files themselves and translations provided. There are literally thousands of documents, but they also have a search box to narrow down what you're looking for.
These are the official files that were released on 4th August 2008.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/

and I think that this would be better site for you to read the files. I'm sure the contents are the same but this one is minus press articles etc.

camille262

Chicke wrote: »

Kez 73
Would you know where I would be looking to find out more about the drugs test on the twins,especially the story about the hair cut short.
Is this not an obstruction of justice if they declined to get the hair sampled at the tiime of disappearance and effectively got rid of evidence by cutting the little ones hair so tightly.this to me us interesting because having a little girl myself I don't know a single parent who cuts the hair length of little girls that age.we all want it to grow!

Also.would you know more about the blue bag.I have seen conflicting evidence as to it's existence or not with the mccanns denying it existed.are there any pics?where did the police find about it

Sorry about all the questions

You certainly don't need to apologise Chicke.
Regarding the twins' hair being cut, Gerry McCann announced this on his own site.
Regarding a blue bag, I remember a photo of a small suitcase/large bag which Gerry McCann was carrying out with the a bucket and spade. Guess going to the beach. Photo got "whooshed" I believe - but I remember it distinctly.
I used to know so much about this case and haven't been able to find a suitable forum on which to read and post. Used to belong to the3arguidos.net which was great.

TommyTippee

One of the main arguments against the McCanns knowing what happened is why would they continue to appear on tv making appeals.

Both cases above show that this has happened before, so is not a valid reason as to why the McCanns should be presumed innocent in the face of all the evidence against them.

Mistyeyes321

maebee wrote: »

I'm struggling not to take offence here. They ARE the real thing.
mccannfiles.com is a site where Portuguese posters (genuine) have translated the released police files from Portuguese to English. You can look elsewhere for them and you will find the same thing.

Must admit it made me think twice Maebee when It was pointed out lastnight!
No offence meant just being honest!
So have I got this Right, That the children's hair was tested? But it came back with no trace of anything being present in their system's?!
Also why was Kate tested? I don't understand why she would have been tested?, What was the reason for this anyone know? & was Gerry Tested to? If so again why?!

DexyDrain

Mistyeyes321 wrote: »

Must admit it made me think twice Maebee when It was pointed out lastnight!
No offence meant just being honest!
So have I got this Right, That the children's hair was tested? But it came back with no trace of anything being present in their system's?!
Also why was Kate tested? I don't understand why she would have been tested?, What was the reason for this anyone know? & was Gerry Tested to? If so again why?!

The tests were paid for and carried out for the McCanns themselves, they were not tested as part of the investigation and there does not seem to be any independent verification of how the samples were collected or the exact parameters and results. They could request a test for chloroform for example when a more readily available sedative was not tested.

Mistyeyes321

DexyDrain wrote: »

The tests were paid for and carried out for the McCanns themselves, they were not tested as part of the investigation and there does not seem to be any independent verification of how the samples were collected or the exact parameters and results. They could request a test for chloroform for example when a more readily available sedative was not tested.

Thank-You for your reply, So it wasn't by the Police they was tested?! Also why would Kate be tested? I can understand the Children being tested because one of the claim's from the Mcs has been they think they we're drugged! But is there a reason for Kate having them to?!

Also regarding link's provided by a couple of poster's with different Murder's on...I can see the reason some have posted them because it seem's to be one of the commen complaint's from some that a Mother or Father couldn't have possible just carried on as normal if they had Hurt their Child...So these prove it does happen maybe not very often but it does happen! & isn't unheard of by any mean's...

Kess73

TommyTippee wrote: »

One of the main arguments against the McCanns knowing what happened is why would they continue to appear on tv making appeals.

Both cases above show that this has happened before, so is not a valid reason as to why the McCanns should be presumed innocent in the face of all the evidence against them.

You are correct to say that the tv appearances are not a valid reason to say that the McCanns should be presumed innocent.

But at present and possibly for the duration of their lives the McCanns will be presumed innocent in the eyes of the law due to their not being enough solid evidence to convict them of a crime under Portugese law.


Now I am one that thinks a lot of things simply do not add up in the case and I am one who finds the fact that the McCanns have badly contradicted themselves badly a number of times to be suspicious, but my own suspicions and doubts mean nowt in the real world with regards to this case and in that world technically the McCanns are innocent unless found guilty of something.

iamwhoiam

mrsbyrne wrote: »

Audrey,be carefull, maebee is repeatedly referencing this blog
http://www.mccannfiles.com/index.html in a manner which implies that it is the official Portuguese police files regarding this case. mccannfiles is nothing more than an extreme anti-mccann blog which has carefully and cunningly put an anti-mccann spin on extracts from the files. maebee has actually referenced almost every anti-mccann blog in her post here, all the time failing to explain that they are blogs, people opinions, nothing more. strangely enough she fails to reference the website to which she has just paid a visit, the arch mccann hate site http://missingmadeleine.forumotion.net/forum, were she has been a long-time poster, asking them to supply her with photos of madeleine
http://missingmadeleine.forumotion.net/t15522-help-needed-with-a-pic-of-madeleine
I suggest you all take a really good look and ask yourselves why maebee doesnt refer you there as a source of information.

You need to rein yourself in a bit and be very careful who you are casting aspersions about on here .Its not a very complementary post and is personal and agains the T +Cs
And the mccannfiles are translated police files by genuine translators .By all means have an opinion and state you case and maybe people will agree or disagree , but get your facts right first .

Kess73

Mistyeyes321 wrote: »

Thank-You for your reply, So it wasn't by the Police they was tested?! Also why would Kate be tested? I can understand the Children being tested because one of the claim's from the Mcs has been they think they we're drugged! But is there a reason for Kate having them to?!
Also regarding link's provided by a couple of poster's with different Murder's on...I can see the reason some have posted them because it seem's to be one of the commen complaint's from some that a Mother or Father couldn't have possible just carried on as normal if they had Hurt their Child...So these prove it does happen maybe not very often but it does happen! & isn't unheard of by any mean's...

Kate got herself tested month later as the police had asked her early in the case if she was on any medication for stress caused by the children before she came to Portugal.

The McCanns reacted with their usual outrage to the question and then waited until September to have someone of their choosing back in England test Kate and the police had to then go through quite a bit of international red tape in order to request to see those findings.

But the McCann's outrage quietened down a bit when Kate's own journal was found to have had entries about having trouble dealing with the children and had mentions of stress etc.

So the question asked was never actually answered, instead the police were told that a drugs test taken some four months after the child went missing said that Kate had nothing in her system, but as to whether or not there were drugs in her system or those of the twins on the night the child went missing we can never know for sure as the drug tests were months later and as such cannot be 100% in terms of saying she did or did not have something in her system on an exact day, whereas if she and the twins had been tested when asked then a far more accurate result would have been gotten.

DexyDrain

Mistyeyes321 wrote: »

Thank-You for your reply, So it wasn't by the Police they was tested?! Also why would Kate be tested? I can understand the Children being tested because one of the claim's from the Mcs has been they think they we're drugged! But is there a reason for Kate having them to?!

Also regarding link's provided by a couple of poster's with different Murder's on...I can see the reason some have posted them because it seem's to be one of the commen complaint's from some that a Mother or Father couldn't have possible just carried on as normal if they had Hurt their Child...So these prove it does happen maybe not very often but it does happen! & isn't unheard of by any mean's...

I guess the answer to the question of Kate's testing is found in the 48 questions she refused to answer. The police were obviously of the belief that Kate's state of mind before and during the trip was a matter of concern. They asked if she felt overwhelmed by the demands of the children, they asked if it was true that she considered handing Madeliene over to a relative and that she had spoken about a 'bad omen' or premonition before the holiday. The inference I guess is that she was taking anti-depressant or anti-anxiety medicine at the time.

The seemingy frantic and persistent calls she made late at night and early morning to her friend back in England a couple of days before the disappearance and the series of voicemails left on Gerry's mobile (which seems to have been turned off the morning after the 'row' mentioned on the late late show) perhaps also suggested to the police that there were 'issues' at play.

AudreyHepburn

maebee wrote: »

I'm struggling not to take offence here. They ARE the real thing.
mccannfiles.com is a site where Portuguese posters (genuine) have translated the released police files from Portuguese to English. You can look elsewhere for them and you will find the same thing.

Look I wasn't trying to offend you, I was simply confused and wanted confirmation I was getting the genuine article.

If they are the real thing fair enough, but I make no apologies for wanting to make sure. I was expecting the link to be the PJs own website or something so when another poster called it into question I wondered too.

No need to take offence, I'm just being honest.

maebee

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

.

I was expecting the link to be the PJs own website or something so when another poster called it into question I wondered too.

As I said before, you are on this thread since page one and have made many uninformed comments. I am a McCann sceptic but I have studied both sides of the story. That is all I was asking you to do. I really am surprised that you didn't know that the Official Files were released to journalists in 2008 and that they have been translated on many sites, mccannfiles.com being the one that I use as the translations were done by police translators.