Gerry and Kate Mcann promoting Book on Late Late next week

CK2010

i guess you're entitled to your opinion but i know that if i heard of a couple leaving their three year old child alone and effectively responsible for twin babies, and one of them ended up in grave danger/dead id be expecting at least an investigation into neglect.

and im still of the opinion that deliberately choosing to leave your children alone while you go out with friends is not a mistake.
its not quite the same as taking your eye off one of the kids while you tend to the younger one or something like that- thats what id consider a mistake.

thebullkf

wilson10 wrote: »

Just came across this thread, only read the first 3 or 4 pages and it's obvious that the majority of contributors don't have kids.

Even those who accept that Maddie was taken are so crass and uncaring in their clever statements that I find it really offensive.

Those who don't believe are so sure of their theories that you'd think they were there, on the scene.

really:rolleyes: - How so?

Do you have kids?

sham69

ISDW wrote: »

Yep, the media was filming their every move, the police were watching their every move, but this criminal mastermind managed to go and retrieve the body and move it without anybody else seeing him do it.



Proof? Baby P anybody? (again)



No, its one law. But, maybe due to their intelligence, they knew how the media worked, so got lawyers and PR people involved because they could see how everything would be twisted if they didn't - how ironic.

Washing the cuddly toy may seem strange to some people, but even though a lot of posters on here seem to think that Kate McCann is an unfeeling bitch, maybe she didn't know what on earth she was doing for a few days/weeks? Maybe it was just what she did regularly? Or, maybe if the suggestion had been made that an abductor had moved the toy, she didn't want to have contact with something that someone that took her child had touched? So, she washed them off it? Two plausible reasons why she could have washed the toy.

I just can't believe the vitriole and hatred on this thread and people 'knowing' what happened when all they've ever seen are media reports and reports that the public were allowed to see. Yet the police from two countries didn't have enough evidence to charge anybody.

Whichever poster it was that said it WAS Gerry with Madeleine in his arms, who else could it have been. Seriously, it was a family holiday resort.

Yeah I am well aware that it was a family holiday resort but the point I was making was that testimony was given by jane tanner I think which mentioned that she saw a man walking away from the apartment with a child in his arms.
at the same time she seemingly walked past Gerry who was talking to some guy about a tennis game.
So could it not be possible that Gerry was the guy with the child in his arms (as he was just after coming from the apartment after checking on the kids?)
and not the long haired guy with the moustache that the statement intially pointed out?
oh sorry then the profile of the guy changed to fit Robert Murat..
Are you seriously telling me that you are buying all this abduction crap.

Listen, nobody hates the McCann's but you have to admit that the whole case stinks to high heaven.
We are all entitled to our opinion on the case and for me there are too many contradictions and something very funny about all the couples involved.

General Zod

halfway through the interview Tubridy will dive across the desk, grab Gerry by the lapels and scream "Where is she? What did you do with the body??"

The desk gets overturned, and they hastily cut to a video of Frank McNamara playing "Gabriels Oboe" on Howth pier.

Ifr this doesn't happen I'll refuse to pay my TV licence ever again.

Sir Oxman

Their PR man Mitchell claimed that leaving toddlers alone for extended periods of time night after night (never mind in an unlocked house) is a 'British thing' - I seriously doubt it's any nationalitys 'thing'

Also, what person in their right mind takes their daughters constant companion (a cuddly toy) to work with them and not just any work but work that involves dealing with corpses? The toy their daughter sleeps with?

mconigol

AskMyChocolate wrote: »

Cheers for that chief. I stand corrected. Does that mean that even if the McCanns had a change of heart and agreed to co-operate with the authorities,and answer the questions that they have up until now refused to answer, that the authorities are no longer willing to give any more time to the case?

My understanding is that unless new evidence were to come to light it wouldn't be reopened. Which hasn't happened. They can only go through the same evidence so many times.

I think it's interesting that they also say:

"so far met only opinions, theories in the abstract, ramblings, reasoning and unfounded publicity maneuver, which is not enough to reopen the investigation,"

A lot of people seem to think they can solve complex cases from the comfort of their bedroom.

maebee

dark crystal;

It was one night - a night they will be paying for for the rest of their lives.

It wasn't one night. They left the toddles alone in the apartment every night of the holiday. They've admitted to that. Even after this:

She states that on the day of the 1st May 2007, when she was at home alone, at approximately 22H30 she heard a child cry, and that due the tone of the crying seemed to be a young child and not a baby of two years of age or younger.

Apart from the crying that continued for approximately one hour and fifteen minutes, and which got louder and more expressive, the child shouted "Daddy, Daddy", the witness had no doubt that the noise came from the floor below. At about 23H45, an hour and fifteen minutes after the crying began, she heard the parents arrive, she did not see them, but she heard the patio doors open, she was quite worried as the crying had gone on for more than an hour and had gradually got worse.

They still left the children on the following two nights. It's just heartbreaking.

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id331.html

Downlinz

Einhard wrote: »

In the likely event that the McCanns had nothing to do with their child's disappearance, I can't even imagine by how much their grief and pain must have been compounded by accusations of amateur sleuths and conspiracy theorists on the internet, safely ensconced in their own homes whilst casting the most vile slurs against a grieving couple.

They invite the media attention on themselves, its hard to have sympathy for anyone inviting attention upon their supposed grief. Even if they are completely truthful and innocent in all this (and thats a big IF) they have nobody to blame but themselves for reactions by bringing it into the public domain.

Was tired about hearing about these guys day after day a few weeks, flogging and profiting from nightmare story than thousands of parents have to go through silently and from a genuine cause. Nothing would please me more than to see someone give them a right grilling on air.

DublinWriter

thebigbiffo wrote: »

Personally, I think a staff member of the resort they were staying in was involved. Someone in there realised that this group of doctors would put their young children to bed every night, leave them alone and go across the complex for dinner and drinks and were very rarely disturbed by them. They had a routine they stuck too; that every half an hour someone checked on them and didn't return for another half hour. It wouldn't take a genius to figure out that when Kate or Gerry returned back to the table someone could let themselves in, take the child (whether through the window or patio) hop in a car and be gone 50 miles before the s'hit really started hitting the fan. All the speculation as to the cuddly toy, the boot of the car etc have their own plausible explanations.

I'm just convinced that the simplest explanation here is what actually happened; someone in that resort saw children being left by themselves for long periods of time and either conspired with others or acted by themselves in abducting the child, probably for a relatively local paedophile ring (the most common reason for child kidnappings afaik).

I actually thought at the time that they would catch someone for this quite quickly due to the fact the resort was a relatively enclosed compound with what was probably a transient, unskilled workforce from varied backgrounds.

Exactly my theory too. Who ever it was, they had very good local knowledge and I don't think it was a total crime of opportunity.

If I had to go further I'd say that a temporary worker in either the kitchens or bar had a major hand in it.

Does anyone know to what detail the hotel workers were questioned by the Portuguese police?

Downlinz

wilson10 wrote: »

Just came across this thread, only read the first 3 or 4 pages and it's obvious that the majority of contributors don't have kids.

Even those who accept that Maddie was taken are so crass and uncaring in their clever statements that I find it really offensive.

Those who don't believe are so sure of their theories that you'd think they were there, on the scene.

One would imagine someone commenting on this without the attachment of having kids would have the least clouded judgment.

Sir Oxman

maebee wrote: »

It wasn't one night. They left the toddles alone in the apartment every night of the holiday. They've admitted to that. Even after this:

She states that on the day of the 1st May 2007, when she was at home alone, at approximately 22H30 she heard a child cry, and that due the tone of the crying seemed to be a young child and not a baby of two years of age or younger.

Apart from the crying that continued for approximately one hour and fifteen minutes, and which got louder and more expressive, the child shouted "Daddy, Daddy", the witness had no doubt that the noise came from the floor below. At about 23H45, an hour and fifteen minutes after the crying began, she heard the parents arrive, she did not see them, but she heard the patio doors open, she was quite worried as the crying had gone on for more than an hour and had gradually got worse.

They still left the children on the following two nights. It's just heartbreaking.

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id331.html

^^This.
It's absolutely appaling and unjustifiable.

mconigol

maebee wrote: »

It wasn't one night. They left the toddles alone in the apartment every night of the holiday. They've admitted to that. Even after this:

She states that on the day of the 1st May 2007, when she was at home alone, at approximately 22H30 she heard a child cry, and that due the tone of the crying seemed to be a young child and not a baby of two years of age or younger.

Apart from the crying that continued for approximately one hour and fifteen minutes, and which got louder and more expressive, the child shouted "Daddy, Daddy", the witness had no doubt that the noise came from the floor below. At about 23H45, an hour and fifteen minutes after the crying began, she heard the parents arrive, she did not see them, but she heard the patio doors open, she was quite worried as the crying had gone on for more than an hour and had gradually got worse.

They still left the children on the following two nights. It's just heartbreaking.

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id331.html

It's pretty strange that someone would sit and listen to that for over an hour and not investigate.

wilson10

thebullkf wrote: »

really:rolleyes: - How so?

Do you have kids?

Yes, 3, had 4

wilson10

K-9 wrote: »

Just an aside, I can never understand this "do you have kids?" line thing.

It's as if bad people just automatically change once they have children!

Another extension of it is "are you a mother?" as if mothers all act and care equally. Funnily enough it is being used against the mother in this case.

That's probably because you don't have any.

Dozen Wicked Words

Their social standing, ability to manipulate the media, overt religiousness and the professions they work in, have meant they have had a very easy ride for what is child neglect. Why go on a family holiday if you don't bring your VERY young children with you everywhere.

The type of holiday you have when you have kids changes, they don't seem to have grasped that point. You have dinner earlier, or you hire a baby sitter from a service offered.

I have every sympathy for the poor children and Maddie, but I have none for their parents.

ISDW

sham69 wrote: »

Yeah I am well aware that it was a family holiday resort but the point I was making was that testimony was given by jane tanner I think which mentioned that she saw a man walking away from the apartment with a child in his arms.
at the same time she seemingly walked past Gerry who was talking to some guy about a tennis game.
So could it not be possible that Gerry was the guy with the child in his arms (as he was just after coming from the apartment after checking on the kids?)
and not the long haired guy with the moustache that the statement intially pointed out?
oh sorry then the profile of the guy changed to fit Robert Murat..
Are you seriously telling me that you are buying all this abduction crap.

Listen, nobody hates the McCann's but you have to admit that the whole case stinks to high heaven.
We are all entitled to our opinion on the case and for me there are too many contradictions and something very funny about all the couples involved.

Apparently Jane Tanner is a friend of the McCanns, so I think she'd know what Gerry looked like.

I'm not buying any crap, I wasn't there, I don't know what happened, I haven't seen all the evidence, read the police files, so I'm not buying anything. You and other posters on the other hand have the McCanns guilty and convicted, even though you also haven't seen the evidence.

With the hatred thats been put up on this thread, a single thread on an Irish forum, I can totally understand why they say nothing and control what goes out to the media.

I would love to live in the perfect world that so many posters on here live in, where nobody ever does something that they shouldn't.

How many posters who are slating the McCanns have NEVER driven over 50kph in a built up area? What if a child ran out in front of you and you knocked them down? If you had been sticking to the law, the child would probably survive, but by breaking the law, you will probably kill that child. That, in my opinion, is just as negligent as leaving the children unattended, which is why I never do it, I couldn't live with myself if I hit a child while speeding.

People do stupid things every single day, most of us get away with them.

Sir Oxman

wilson10 wrote: »

That's probably because you don't have any.

Would you ever get a grip?

maebee

mconigol wrote: »

It's pretty strange that someone would sit and listen to that for over an hour and not investigate.

Mrs. Fenn was an 80 year old woman who lived alone, in the apartment above 5A. Maybe she should have investigated. More pertinent is that the McCanns proceeded to repeat their actions the following 2 nights, even after Madeleine said to them on May 2nd "Where were you when we were crying last night?"

wilson10

gambiaman wrote: »

Would you ever get a grip?

Is someone losing a grip

K-9

wilson10 wrote: »

That's probably because you don't have any.

And you'd be wrong, again.

There are plenty of bad and neglectful parents about. Usually they were just bad and neglectful people before they had kids. The McCann's don't fit the stereotypical Shameless type family though so they get treated better.

maebee

dooferoaks wrote: »

Their social standing, ability to manipulate the media, overt religiousness and the professions they work in, have meant they have had a very easy ride for what is child neglect. Why go on a family holiday if you don't bring your VERY young children with you everywhere.

They put the children in the creche every day of the holiday, until 5.30pm :mad:

Homer

thebullkf wrote: »

Hi ISDW,
I remember reading something before about the reliability of the dogs used, ie false positives etc.

From Goncalo Amarals book - "The Truth of the Lie"

There were two separate dogs, one for cadaver scents and one specifically trained to look for ONLY human blood. The dogs CV's are impressive. Besides collaborating in hundreds of investigations, they passed the practical tests brilliantly at the FBI's "Body Farm," the only place in the world where human cadavers are used to simulate homicide scenarios and concealment of bodies.

Amongst the most media-covered cases, which they contributed to resolving, is that of the disappearance in Northern Ireland of Attracta Harron, who was last seen when she was returning home on foot, after having been to church. All searches carried out by the police were unsuccessful. The main suspect's car having been totally burnt out in a mysterious fire, couldn't be examined. They called in Eddie, who examined the charred remains of the vehicle and immediately picked out the characteristic odour. Human tissue was found amongst the debris, the DNA of which corresponded to the missing woman. Later, the dog indicated the place - close to a river - where the victim's body had been abandoned. At the home of the suspect, where the police were searching for incriminating evidence, Eddie identified cadaver odour in one of the bedrooms. The man confessed to having killed the woman then moving her body to the banks of the river.

The case of Amanda Edwards, reported missing, is also very impressive. The police, who conducted a search of her ex-partner's home, found small bloodstains there, but no trace of a body. The dog, who was brought in for the examination of the man''s vehicle, alerted to cadaver odour on the tools stored in the boot (a shovel, a level and a compactor). The police went to the building site where the suspect had worked a few days before and discovered the body, buried in a garage. The murderer had made efficient use of his tools to carry out his task.

It's also thanks to the help of the dogs that the case of Charlotte Pinkley, a missing British woman, who had been imprisoned by her ex-partner, was resolved. The police requested the help of the specialist dog team to try to find the young woman's body. Eddie picked out a place where the abductor had provisionally left his victim. In the surrounding area, the investigators found the button from a dress that had belonged to Charlotte. That clue exposed the murderer, who ended up showing the police the place where he had hidden the body.

More recently, it's Eddie who helps to find a body buried under a flagstone at the former orphanage, Haut-de-la-Garenne, in Jersey, setting for a terrible case of paedophilia and child murder.

The achievements of the dog detectives are the result of a very long apprenticeship. It all starts with the selection of the best puppies when they are only a few months old. The most talented breed for this unusual "profession," is the Springer Spaniel. The trainer, Martin Grime, and his pupils undergo aptitude tests every year in order to obtain certificates proving their capability. In Great Britain, the police have no hesitation in calling in the specialist dog teams to assist in certain criminal investigations. Their skills are nowadays recognised by journalists, police and courts all over the world.

Dogdaysareover

dooferoaks wrote: »

Their social standing, ability to manipulate the media, overt religiousness and the professions they work in, have meant they have had a very easy ride for what is child neglect. Why go on a family holiday if you don't bring your VERY young children with you everywhere.

The type of holiday you have when you have kids changes, they don't seem to have grasped that point. You have dinner earlier, or you hire a baby sitter from a service offered.

I have every sympathy for the poor children and Maddie, but I have none for their parents.

I couldn't have said it better myself, this situation has stunk from high heaven from day one....

LETHAL LADY

Whilst we may never know what happened there seems to be more evidence to point towards the McCanns involvement than towards any abducter.

I do wonder why any parent would give their child calpol if the child is not sick. Calpol is used to treat fever, pain etc. I do not see anywhere on the bottle that says fancy a night out one 5ml dose should suffice.

They are effectively drugging their own child so they can have a night out. That alone to me raises my suspicions.

sham69

ISDW wrote: »

Apparently Jane Tanner is a friend of the McCanns, so I think she'd know what Gerry looked like.

I'm not buying any crap, I wasn't there, I don't know what happened, I haven't seen all the evidence, read the police files, so I'm not buying anything. You and other posters on the other hand have the McCanns guilty and convicted, even though you also haven't seen the evidence.

With the hatred thats been put up on this thread, a single thread on an Irish forum, I can totally understand why they say nothing and control what goes out to the media.

I would love to live in the perfect world that so many posters on here live in, where nobody ever does something that they shouldn't.

How many posters who are slating the McCanns have NEVER driven over 50kph in a built up area? What if a child ran out in front of you and you knocked them down? If you had been sticking to the law, the child would probably survive, but by breaking the law, you will probably kill that child. That, in my opinion, is just as negligent as leaving the children unattended, which is why I never do it, I couldn't live with myself if I hit a child while speeding.

People do stupid things every single day, most of us get away with them.

Everyone is guilty of doing stupid things but arent you supposed to learn from them?
Did they not leave their other children alone after madeline was "abducted"
and did they not leave them alone most nights?
A stupid thing is done once.
What iIF as you say drove over 50, hit someone and for some reason got away without losing your licence (just imagine the portugese police are in charge of the case).
Would you drive over 50 the next day and the day after that etc etc.

Of course Tanner knew what Gerry looked like , I am saying she saw him but gave the description of someone else?

123balltv

maebee wrote: »

Madeleine said to them on May 2nd "Where were you when we were crying last night?"

Ah that broke my heart if I was her Mother I'd be right by her side day/night

ISDW

maebee wrote: »

They put the children in the creche every day of the holiday, until 5.30pm :mad:

Oh FFS, thats ridiculous now. I have been on holiday many times with different foster children. They all loved to go to the holiday play schemes and creches. Much more fun than sitting next to me while I lay on a sunlounger reading a book. Holidays are for parents and children. Yes, in my case we would spend time each day together at the poolside or at the beach, but it would be me usually asking the kids to stay with me, they would want to be off with the friends they'd made playing. Why do you think holiday resorts have these facilities?

ISDW

sham69 wrote: »

Everyone is guilty of doing stupid things but arent you supposed to learn from them?
Did they not leave their other children alone after madeline was "abducted"
and did they not leave them alone most nights?
A stupid thing is done once.
What iIF as you say drove over 50, hit someone and for some reason got away without losing your licence (just imagine the portugese police are in charge of the case).
Would you drive over 50 the next day and the day after that etc etc.

Of course Tanner knew what Gerry looked like , I am saying she saw him but gave the description of someone else?

I haven't seen any links that said they left the twins on their own after Madeleine was abducted, can you put them up please.

I'm not talking about you losing your licence, I'm talking about people doing things that they know is wrong, yet still doing it, such as leaving the children unattended before she disappeared.

sham69

So they put their children into a creche most days up to 5:30 , spent a couple of hours with them, got them ready for bed and then left them alone from 8:30?
Is that correct?
If it is, why did they bother to bring them at all.
They should have left them with relatives and went on holiday on their own.

Homer

What about the Irish family that flew to Portugal and were prepared to testify that it was Gerry Mc Cann they saw carrying Madeleine the evening that she disappeared?