Gerry and Kate Mcann promoting Book on Late Late next week

jill_valentine

D1stant wrote: »

Can you elaborate? It makes a lot of sense to me

Not taking a side either way, but there have been many, many cases of people involved in a crime courting the press in the aftermath, either in a misguided attempt to insist upon their innocence, or because they derive some gratification either from the sympathy they elicit or the sense of "outsmarting" other observers. It's an impulse not unlike that behind Munchausen by Proxy.

It's also not unknown for perpetrators to convince themselves of their own innocence after the fact, and pursue public vindication in turn.

D1stant

Wolflikeme wrote: »

Why don't you try arguing against my point instead of disregarding it as being 'too Jim Corr'?

Good grief Socrates would have loved you

dozydora

K-9 wrote: »

I'm extremely sorry for your loss but it is extremely unfair on a parent like myself to use emotional blackmail like that.

The McCanns used IVF, too treat Madeline like they did is terrible, I wouldn't use that emotional line either.

This wasn't emotional blackmail and I apologise if you think it was. I am just trying to explain that just because the McCanns didn't react the way we all think they should have does not make them guilty. I was just giving an example of how I reacted in my own situation. When you suffer a shock like this you do crazy things.
I have no idea what you are talking about in your last sentence ie 'ivf.

CK2010

IvySlayer wrote: »

Was anyone else disgusted that Kate is convinced it's a man, and the children are referring to 'The Man' and 'The Naughty Man'..

yeh i actually meant to bring that up earlier.

off topic but in the shop i work in you always here mothers say things like 'put that down or the bad man will get you'-makes my tummy turn a little when i hear it.

lugha

El Weirdo wrote: »

Of course they could. But that doesn't mean that you should just say, "Sod it, there's no point looking after them 'cos if someone really wants to take them, they will. Let's go out and leave them on their own.", does it?

Well in reality I would say that the risk from predators is so minimal that it doesn't warrant taking any specific action to guard against them (I am aware that most people are utterly hopeless at assessing risk and won't appreciate that).
There are of course plenty of reasons (where non-trivial risks apply) why you shouldn't leave children out of earshot of a guardian or why you shouldn't leave a domicile unsecured. But the bogey man is not one of them.

But it comforts people to think that this tragedy happened only because of the McCanns irresponsibility. That may be so. But it is by no means certain. A child was snatched from her bath in the UK a few years ago where the predator simply walked in the back door.

Wolflikeme

Happyman42 wrote: »

My eldest child cried in the night for almost two years. Many many times he told us what his dreams where, did we react everytime he told us about the shapes he could see on the wall....no.
What is wrong and judgemental is that you are applying the 'wisdom of hindsight' to the events that led up to a tragic event. That is wrong headed lazy and extremely unfair imo.

So even after their children who were left alone (a three year and two one year olds), one of whom had previously expressed unhappiness at being left alone crying for 75mins WHILE THE PARENTS WERE OUT DRINKING, it's OK to keep doing it, because that's kids for ya!!?

As for applying the 'wisdom of hindsight'. Stating it's out and out neglect to leave kids like that regardless, is not a hindsight opinion. Any parent worth their salt wouldn't behave like that.

deco nate

El Weirdo wrote: »

Jesus. Did he say that? I must've missed that bit. Pretty piss-poor excuse, tbh.

yes he did,its on rte player.i
missed it the first time:o

Happyman42

Wolflikeme wrote: »

So even after their children who were left alone (a three year and two one year olds), one of whom had previously expressed unhappiness at being left alone crying for 75mins WHILE THE PARENTS WERE OUT DRINKING, it's OK to keep doing it, because that's kids for ya!!?

As for implying the 'wisdom of hindsight'. Stating it's out and out neglect to leave kids like that regardless, is not a hindsight opinion. Any parent worth their salt wouldn't behave like that.

OUT DRINKING is so hysterical and shows that you are seeing this from an hysterical holier than thou slant. I wish you would stop, it really says more about you than the McCanns
Having a meal and drinks is quite normal behaviour on hols...no?
And that Madeline one certainly learnt to tell the time early...smart kid! :rolleyes:

I have no idea what the circumstances where there and neither do you, the whole thing is mired in tabloid spin and hearsay.
All I do know is that parents who had managed to raise a child to 3 yrs safely made an assessment of the situation and deemed it ok. End of. I don't need a pound of their flesh.

AskMyChocolate

danmoz wrote: »

That's be Martin Smith who later insists the man he saw was Gerry Mccann? The very Martin Smith the Mccanns fail to ever mention? That witness?

Nice own goal there.

Seriously chief. You need to read back over the thread and have a look at my posts if you think I'm a McCann apologist. I can assure you I amn't. I'm neutral. All I am saying is that I believe the Smith family's testimony. They seem like very reliable witnesses. Martin Smith thinks it was Gerry McCann he saw. Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't. I don't know (was there cctv?) how certain it is that Gerry McCann was still at the table in Tapas at 10.00 when this man passed the Smith family. All I am saying is that what seems certain is that a man carrying a child fitting Madeleine's description, passed the Smith family at 10 O'clock that evening, and that man has never come forward or been accounted for. This, you surely must agree lends credence to the abduction theory.

As I have said in several previous posts, this is why I can't understand, why the McCanns aren't shouting it from the rooftops. It doesn't make sense. If Gerry McCann, cannot be established as still being at Tapas at this time, then I could understand it, but from everything I've read it seems to be 100% that the man the Smith family saw could not have been Gerry McCann. So why are the McCanns not screaming it. It just doesn't make any sense.

I fail to see where you think I've scored an own goal.

El Weirdo

Happyman42 wrote: »

OUT DRINKING is so hysterical and shows that you are seeing this from an hysterical holier than thou slant. I wish you would stop, it really says more about you than the McCanns
Having a meal and drinks is quite normal behaviour on hols...no?

Of course it is. But most responsible parents make adequate arrangements for the safe-keeping of your children.

Happyman42 wrote: »

And that Madeline one certainly learnt to tell the time early...smart kid! :rolleyes:

An occupant of a nearby apartment heard the child crying for that length of time.

Happyman42 wrote: »

All I do know is that parents who had managed to raise a child to 3 yrs safely made an assessment of the situation and deemed it ok.

Considering that the average human being lives to about 75, I think that's a pretty poor effort if you're going to keep score that way.

Goodnight.

dark crystal

AskMyChocolate wrote: »

Seriously chief. You need to read back over the thread and have a look at my posts if you think I'm a McCann apologist
I fail to see where you think I've scored an own goal.

Seriously, I wouldn't even try reasoning with this guy - he jumps down anyone's throat whose opinion doesn't exactly corrolate with his.

hondasam

I think this thread is nearly at a close at this stage. It's just going over the same thing again and again. we all have our opinions on it and it would not be normal if we all agreed.

dozydora

You know, something has just struck me here, aren't we all missing something? None of us have talked about the possibility that this child is still alive and what she may be suffering. We are all so busy pontificating on Gerry and Kate McCann's guilt that we are totally ignoring the most important person in this whole tragedy, little Maddie. I am not overly religious but if there is any 'higher power' out there please let her be taken care of. In all honesty I don't hold out much hope of her being alive but none of us can say for sure that she isn't either So whatever God of goodness is out there please be good to this ittle innocent child. From expefrience I am probably talking to the wind, no superior power has ever answered me but I live in hope.

Stella89

If anybody takes the time to read the files to do with this case , they would understand that it was not possible for an abduction to have taken place, the Pro McCann people will not answer, multiple of hundreds of British and Portugese investigators don't believe the McCanns lies . Either The Hundreds of the best British and Portugese investigators are wrong in their belief that the McCanns are gulity or the McCAnns(2 people) are innocent . . .

dark crystal

Stella89 wrote: »

If anybody takes the time to read the files to do with this case , they would understand that it was not possible for an abduction to have taken place, the Pro McCann people don't believe it is nescessary to read that the multiple of hundreds of British and Portugese investigators don't believe the McCanns lies .

Nobody can state for sure whether the McCanns are lying or not. Of course it was possible for an abduction to have taken place!

This is merely your opinion and not one which holds enough water with those same hundreds of British and Portugese investigators on which to charge them with any crime.

Or are you happy to just lable them guilty without any proof?

Stella89

dark crystal wrote: »

Nobody can state for sure whether the McCanns are lying or not. Of course it was possible for an abduction to have taken place!

This is merely your opinion and not one which holds enough water with those same hundreds of British and Portugese investigators on which to charge them with any crime.

Or are you happy to just lable them guilty without any proof?

dark Crystal , lets be honest, there was a dead body in their car and in their appartment, and not in any car or appartment in that vicinity, according to every other investigation . . I means, she cleans the teddy bear that she kept smelling week in week out for the cameras, because it smelled of Madeline ( THe last smell of madeline) . She then decides to wash it , when police take an interest . Why ? There are dozens of inconsistencies ...but alot of people don't want to believe this . because they won;t belive it unless it is reported on their big tv screens ?

deco nate

dark crystal wrote: »

Nobody can state for sure whether the McCanns are lying or not. Of course it was possible for an abduction to have taken place!

This is merely your opinion and not one which holds enough water with those same hundreds of British and Portugese investigators on which to charge them with any crime.

Or are you happy to just lable them guilty without any proof?

what?did you read the mccann files?
Just something id like to know

Paully D

If they are lying and did kill Madeline then they have nerves of steel to keep up such a front for so long. They'd also stop trying to keep the whole incident in the media all the time and certainly wouldn't be promoting books.

To the people accusing them of killing their own child and then putting on a brave face for the last 6 years to cover it up - get a grip, they'd have cracked long before now.

deco nate

Paully D wrote: »

If they are lying and did kill Madeline then they have nerves of steel to keep up such a front for so long. They'd also stop trying to keep the whole incident in the media all the time and certainly wouldn't be promoting books.

To the people accusing them of killing their own child and then putting on a brave face for the last 6 years to cover it up - get a grip, they'd have cracked long before now.

wooo,most people on here do not belive they "killed" her,
but did they cover up her death..hide her body so that it wont be found
out that they gave her capol.to help her sleep?stop them from cryin,
like the kids were cryin the night before?
just so they can go for a meal an drinks,without any hassle?
maybe she woke up,drugged an confused.
made her way to the sittin room,climed onto the sofa fell behind
it.broke her neck.an after they found her.
freaked out!....blah blah....blah.tbh i think kate is under the power
of jerry,jmo

dark crystal

deco nate wrote: »

what?did you read the mccann files?
Just something id like to know

Yes, I did. Do you presume I would find them guilty because of theoretical and circumstancial evidence alone?

Why do you find the concept of innocent until proven guilty so hard to grasp? They were never held or charged with a crime because there is not sufficient proof of their guilt!

I've posted many times about the timelines involved and how I believe it would be next to impossible to have disposed of her body during the time it took to alert both the McCanns' friends and the police. The police themselves have no coherent explanation as to how they could have done it in the timeframe involved.

Amaral suggests they hid her in a freezer (location unspecified) for over 3 weeks, before disposing of her elsewhere. This, I find more incredulous than anything the McCanns have to say. They would either have to be master criminals (on a par with whoever killed Jimmy Hoffa), or complete sociopaths who got lucky and managed to hide and dispose of her decomposing body somewhere right under the nose of the police and media, all whilst keeping up this prolonged 4 year pretence of being grieving parents, without cracking once.

Stella89

Paully D wrote: »

If they are lying and did kill Madeline then they have nerves of steel to keep up such a front for so long. They'd also stop trying to keep the whole incident in the media all the time and certainly wouldn't be promoting books.

To the people accusing them of killing their own child and then putting on a brave face for the last 6 years to cover it up - get a grip, they'd have cracked long before now.

No one comes forth with this hyposition... No one says that they killed their own child ... no one...


It is believed that Madeline died whilst left unattended..

Stella89

dark crystal wrote: »

Yes, I did. Do you presume I would find them guilty because of theoretical and circumstancial evidence alone?

Why do you find the concept of innocent until proven guilty so hard to grasp? They were never held or charged with a crime because there is not sufficient proof of their guilt!

I've posted many times about the timelines involved and how I believe it would be next to impossible to have disposed of her body during the time it took to alert both the McCanns' friends and the police. The police themselves have no coherent explanation as to how they could have done it in the timeframe involved.

Amaral suggests they hid her in a freezer (location unspecified) for over 3 weeks, before disposing of her elsewhere. This, I find more incredulous than anything the McCanns have to say. They would either have to be master criminals (on a par with whoever killed Jimmy Hoffa), or complete sociopaths who got lucky and managed to hide and dispose of her decomposing body somewhere right under the nose of the police and media, all whilst keeping up this prolonged 4 year pretence of being grieving parents, without cracking once.

There are the dozen or so people / friends that they dined with of course . . .

dark crystal

Stella89 wrote: »

No one comes forth with this hyposition... No one says that they killed their own child ... no one...


It is believed that Madeline died whilst left unattended..

How, where and when did they dispose of her body so? Why, after 4 years have any traces not been found anywhere in the vicinity?

Denners.ie

The media and authorities need to stop tip tapping around the issue and accept that whatever happened doesn't change that a child's disappearance/death was due to negligence from two people. It sounds harsh but the cruel reality is that they should have been punished accordingly for neglect and essentially failing one of their children.

dark crystal

Stella89 wrote: »

There are the dozen or so people / friends that they dined with of course . . .

So you believe not only the McCanns, but their friends (some of whom they weren't that close to), all conspired to cover up Madeleine's death all these years?

What on earth would they have to gain by doing so?

Or do you suspect one of the friends killed her and the McCanns are innocent?

Denners.ie

dark crystal wrote: »

Why, after 4 years have any traces not been found anywhere in the vicinity?

Traces have been found but not enough to convict or charge them. Any substantial findings point to evidence of a dead body in their apartment and rental car.

deco nate

dark crystal wrote: »

Yes, I did. Do you presume I would find them guilty because of theoretical and circumstancial evidence alone?

Why do you find the concept of innocent until proven guilty so hard to grasp? They were never held or charged with a crime because there is not sufficient proof of their guilt!

I've posted many times about the timelines involved and how I believe it would be next to impossible to have disposed of her body during the time it took to alert both the McCanns' friends and the police. The police themselves have no coherent explanation as to how they could have done it in the timeframe involved.

Amaral suggests they hid her in a freezer (location unspecified) for over 3 weeks, before disposing of her elsewhere. This, I find more incredulous than anything the McCanns have to say. They would either have to be master criminals (on a par with whoever killed Jimmy Hoffa), or complete sociopaths who got lucky and managed to hide and dispose of her decomposing body somewhere right under the nose of the police and media, all whilst keeping up this prolonged 4 year pretence of being grieving parents, without cracking once.

really?you read the statments of all,and the changes they made to them?
yet you still dont have ANY doubts about it?! amazin:rolleyes:

dark crystal

deco nate wrote: »

really?you read the statments of all,and the changes they made to them?
yet you still dont have ANY doubts about it?! amazin:rolleyes:

I don't claim to know what happened at all. No one does for sure.

But I would appreciate if you answered the questions I put forward...how, where and when did the McCanns dispose of their daughter's body?

Not even the police who claim to lay the blame at the McCanns door know the answer to this.

Any open minded person would have doubts about the case on all sides. I'm just of the opinion that I find it hard to comprehend how the McCanns are supposed to have done it.

Stella89

dark crystal wrote: »

How, where and when did they dispose of her body so? Why, after 4 years have any traces not been found anywhere in the vicinity?

The Portugese and British police investigators must be wrong so .. .. ..

deco nate

dark crystal wrote: »

I don't claim to know what happened at all. No one does for sure.

But I would appreciate if you answered the questions I put forward...how, where and when did the McCanns dispose of their daughter's body?

Not even the police who claim to lay the blame at the McCanns door know the answer to this.

Any open minded person would have doubts about the case on all sides. I'm just of the opinion that I find it hard to comprehend how the McCanns are supposed to have done it.

ok heres one for you,why leave the front door unlock?seein as they were all
havin dinner togeter?surely they could have left thier front doors locked,
givin the keys to whoevers turn it was to "listen" in???seein as they could not be arsed to pay the babysitter fee.all 9 of them!oh and thier was 2 hours between the time they found out she was missin and the time they told the cops...