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Gerry and Kate Mcann promoting Book on Late Late next week

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    #2072
    Kess73
    Registered Users Posts: 25,560 ✭✭✭✭Kess73


    walshb wrote: »
    Absolutely. Add in the fact that they were leaving the children alone on several occasions. This was like a red flag to a bull.

    Serioulsy, I don't think the parents could be going on and on and on like this IF they really did kill her. It doesn't make sense, and if it doesn't make sense, it's just not true. The whole planet was looking for Madeleine. I just do not believe that the parents killed her and then did all they did after it.

    They made a very poor call and have paid the ultimate price. They neglected their children and it led to one child being taken. They're damn lucky the three
    of them weren't taken.



    Not really a way to judge whether someone is innocent or guilty.

    Taking that approach would see many of the statements from the McCanns and their friends written off as simiply not true, especially those of Jabe Tanner who went from not seeing the man's face who was carrying the child at all, to her having seen a man the spit of Murat, to her having seen a woman not a man, to finally settling on it being a dark skinned man who face she did see and he had a big thin moustache.

    Her statements make no sense so are they all not true?


    Gerry McCann on the LLS siad that after he came back to the apartment the first thing he did when Kate said what happened was to do outside and close the shutter and see if he could open them by hand from the outside and he said he could.

    Yet when the shutters were tested, it was shown that they could not be opened from the outside without being forced, and that the only fingerprints on the shutters were that of Kate McCann.

    So his version makes no sense based on police evidence so is it simply not true.

    We could do the same thing with some of the claims against the McCanns and write them off as not being true as they don't make sense.


    Just because things don't appear to make sense does not mean they cannot be true, and that goes for whether a person thinks the McCanns are completely innocent or whether they think they are guilty.


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    #2073
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    walshb wrote: »
    Serioulsy, I don't think the parents could be going on and on and on like this IF they really did kill her. It doesn't make sense, and if it doesn't make sense, it's just not true..

    What doesn't make sense is the McCanns and the others disrupting the investigation. Does it make sense to you that Kate McCann would refuse to answer police questions during the investigation? Does it makes sense to you that you find your daughter missing and between that moment and the investigation phone records are deleted off your phone? Does it make sense that the media in the UK were informed almost concurrently as the local police? If they are innocent why the reluctance? Why the obstruction and the discrepancies?
    walshb wrote: »
    They're damn lucky the three
    of them weren't taken.

    Which begs the question why, when Kate McCann discovered Madeleine missing, she left the two other children in the apartment alone and returned to the Tapas Bar, surely she could have screamed and got help from where she was.


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    #2074
    Mr.Micro
    Registered Users Posts: 5,336 ✭✭✭Mr.Micro


    There is no evidence at all to point to abduction. Tanner's evidence is unreliable as she identified a man with no features at all ....and egg shape head which later became a full blooded man. She was able identify the child and clothes in detail but not a single feature on the man. Her story changed so much over time that it is beyond belief, even one time sayng 100% it was Murat who looks so like Payne one of the group. This group have something to hide and its this secret(s) that bind them together. The whole story stinks and a great mystery to me is why the British police never questioned either of the McCanns in 2007 or to this day when they returned without their daughter having left Portugal before the police there had finished with them? Bizarre.


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    #2075
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users Posts: 16,134 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    I have to say I do agree that the mere fact the Mc Canns are still very vocal leads me to think they didnt actually harm the child .
    But I do think there is more to this than meets the eye , the group as a whole is cagey and telling porkies . Be it that the children were sedated , left for hours on end , left in danger , the groups were swingers , or whatever something does not sit right . There are too many changed stories and too many odd things like wiping phone records etc .
    I dont know what it is but my gut tells me they are covering up something and this leads to lies and making up stories that dont match .,
    Yes , there were corrupt PJ , yes they didnt do everything right but surely there are also decent PJ who are still very much convinced that this story does not ring true .

    I personally surmise that Madeleine was left unchecked for much longer than is told , I surmise she may well have been sedated as were her siblings. I think Gerry is very very much in charge in that relationship and his body language alone alerts me to this .
    The area around the western Algarve is rugged , there are coves, mountains and alot of scrub land .A local would have been long long gone before the Mc Canns even missed the child .

    One thing that really bothers me hugely is a mother telling two small kids that a " bad man " took their sister .For heavens sake , could she not have sad a family wanted her and leave it at that till they can absorb this and deal with it .
    Gerry found it really endearing that Sean now has a toy sword and wants to slay the " bad man " and find his sister when he is big . I find that incredibly sad and distressing actually . One small boy who must feel distressed that he is not old enough to do anything
    In all this story one small girl is missing and I hope she either died on the night she went missing or is as her parents seems to think living a happy life .I doubt that but who am I to say . Oddly enough they compare stories with the found girls who all were living a living hell .
    Madeleine paid the ultimate price for the mistake her parents made .Poor scrap


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    #2076
    Aishae
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,800 ✭✭✭Aishae


    one of the first things criminal psychologists and profilers will assert is that certain perpetrator types will stay at the centre of the case or be involved in it. because that act doesnt look guilty and because you may influence the investigation.

    just because the mccanns are so vocal doesnt mean they are more involved than has been let on. but the same fact doesnt rule them out either.

    that said its not impossible at all that its someone else involved in the whole thing either.

    as for the comment that many would be disappointed if madeleine was found alive and well - personally id be glad she was alive. what kind of person would be disappointed that a child isnt dead? (edited to add that if she was kept in a hell thats another matter - im basing what im saying on the suggestion that all is ok)
    im on the fence about the whole thing. and keeping in mind that the closest to the victim is always a suspect so its not that crazy that people question the parents.

    i recall last year a friend of mines' 2 year old fell and hurt her face badly. she went to A and E but said she was terrified they'd suspect she hurt her baby.
    it reminded me that - it may hurt to be suspected of neglect or harming your child - but you have to be suspected (and cleared of it) for the kids sake. because it happens a lot that the child was harmed. Look at the baby P story as an example. other people failed that child. but it was the people closest to him that harmed him.


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    #2077
    metrovelvet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭metrovelvet


    prinz wrote: »
    What doesn't make sense is the McCanns and the others disrupting the investigation. Does it make sense to you that Kate McCann would refuse to answer police questions during the investigation? Does it makes sense to you that you find your daughter missing and between that moment and the investigation phone records are deleted off your phone? Does it make sense that the media in the UK were informed almost concurrently as the local police? If they are innocent why the reluctance? Why the obstruction and the discrepancies?



    Which begs the question why, when Kate McCann discovered Madeleine missing, she left the two other children in the apartment alone and returned to the Tapas Bar, surely she could have screamed and got help from where she was.

    There are two dynamics at play here from what I can see.

    They are guilty of some bad deeds, like not checking on the kids, drinking too much, maybe sedation too. They are also very image conscious and don't want to be judged badly. We can see this from GMs relentless justifications for abandoning his children to go party. He refuses to open up that can of worms, it would put him on public trial and possible affect his madeleine fund.

    The second is mistrust of Portugese police. We know they made a lot of mistakes, we also know the prejudice people have, including myself I must admit, of latin culture police and not trusting their protocols or their technologies and I can see how someone as controlling as GM would want to take over the investigation.

    I dont know why drug tests werent done on the tapas 9.

    So they are definitely guilty, but of murder I dont know...


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    #2078
    CK2010
    Closed Accounts Posts: 543 ✭✭✭CK2010


    walshb wrote: »
    Absolutely. Add in the fact that they were leaving the children alone on several occasions. This was like a red flag to a bull.


    They made a very poor call and have paid the ultimate price. They neglected their children and it led to one child being taken. They're damn lucky the three
    of them weren't taken.


    tbh if there was somebody who longed for a child on holiday there that noticed how the McCanns neglected their children i wouldnt be surprised if they genuinely thought Madeleine was better off with them.
    im not saying i agree or condone the possible actions of this hypothetical person, but in a certain frame of mind and considering people had heard how Madeleine cried for her mam, it'd break your heart.
    they may have felt it was justifiable. that the parents actions justified the abductor taking her...
    just another angle to it


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    #2079
    metrovelvet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭metrovelvet


    CK2010 wrote: »
    tbh if there was somebody who longed for a child on holiday there that noticed how the McCanns neglected their children i wouldnt be surprised if they genuinely thought Madeleine was better off with them.
    im not saying i agree or condone the possible actions of this hypothetical person, but in a certain frame of mind and considering people had heard how Madeleine cried for her mam, it'd break your heart.
    they may have felt it was justifiable. that the parents actions justified the abductor taking her...
    just another angle to it

    For all we know she might be with people who take better care of her. As rotten as that sounds.... ugh those people...


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    #2080
    CK2010
    Closed Accounts Posts: 543 ✭✭✭CK2010


    metrovelvet wrote: »
    For all we know she might be with people who take better care of her. As rotten as that sounds.... ugh those people...

    ive actually said it to myself many times that i wish she is with someone who took her in that kind of situation. that they just longed for a child and saw one that they felt they could treat better. basically given up on a plate to them. if she was wandering looking for her mummy who was getting pissed some man or woman who longed to actually care for a child could have just snatched her in a second.


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    #2081
    metrovelvet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭metrovelvet


    CK2010 wrote: »
    ive actually said it to myself many times that i wish she is with someone who took her in that kind of situation. that they just longed for a child and saw one that they felt they could treat better. basically given up on a plate to them. if she was wandering looking for her mummy who was getting pissed some man or woman who longed to actually care for a child could have just snatched her in a second.

    You wont believe the thoughts I have about them. They usually start with 'ah...there was a reason nature made them infertile...they should be banned for anymore ivf.'


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    #2082
    Mistyeyes321
    Registered Users Posts: 186 ✭✭Mistyeyes321


    metrovelvet wrote: »
    My feeling is that no one checked on her at all during the night, and someone did take her and had ample time to do it. The window is a distracting red herring and they used the porch doors.

    It could be a pedo ring. It could be an underground adoption ring. It could be somebody who just felt like it.

    I so agree with the No Checking & I think this is what the whole lot are trying to Hide!

    I don't believe them Babies was checked any night let alone this night..Which as you have pointed out leaves the Timelines complete Bull...Nobody independent of this Group seen that Child from 5:30 pm when she was taken from the Day Care!

    So it bring's it from 30-40 minutes into 4-5 hour's very big difference wouldn't you agree?!


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    #2083
    OutlawPete
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,689 ✭✭✭✭OutlawPete


    There is no way that the McCanns had anything to do with Madeleine's disappearance. No couple could lie this good and for so long, they would have given themselves away by do, even if just though body language. If they know Madeleine is dead, then they would not be as active as they are. They would just disappear into the background.

    I have watched all their interviews over the years and I know enough about Body Language from books and documentaries that I have seen, to know that they are not lying when they speak of Madeleine. I think they may have used Calpol and the like, as Gerry has shown signs of lying when he discusses this, but other than that, they are telling the truth.

    Also, I don't believe that Madeleine could have walked out, why would the shutters be up if that is what she did. Okay, someone could have grabbed her and then went back in, only to then escape through the window, but doubtful if the 'checks' are to be believed.

    To me, the key questions have NOTHING to do with Gerry and Kate.

    What sticks out to me is why Jane Tanner was not seen by Gerry and Wilkins. Two men chatting don't see a woman they know walking on the same street? Bizarre to say the least and then that woman sees a man carrying a kidnapped child, one who is not kicking up a fuss at being snatched from her bed by a strange man? Also bizarre but I guess possible if someone was used to knock Maddie out (or was she given Calpol by the McCanns, also possible but how would the 'bad man' know this?).

    My own feelings is that someone became aware that Madeleine was being left alone and waited for them to go out for the night. Went into the apartment and knocked Maddie out with something (if she didn't already need it) heard Gerry return and hid. Gerry comes in and checks kids, closes door over and heads back to Tapas. Guy goes out Window in case he meets one of the other parents checking on their kids.

    I wouldn't put much weight on what the dogs sniffed out, it's rented accommodation after all and they might have just sniffed out traces of cocaine or something? I'd pay more attention to that book at Tapas that said that the parents were leaving their kids alone in the apartment. Maybe the owner or the chef with the limp.

    OutlawColumbo.


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    #2084
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    OutlawPete wrote: »
    There is no way that the McCanns had anything to do with Madeleine's disappearance. No couple could lie this good and for so long, they would have given themselves away by do, even if just though body language. If they know Madeleine is dead, then they would not be as active as they are. They would just disappear into the background..

    For most people yes. For some people no. Look at Joe O'Reilly. No problems with going on TLLS to discuss how he thought someone had done it.
    OutlawPete wrote: »
    I wouldn't put much weight on what the dogs sniffed out, it's rented accommodation after all and they might have just sniffed out traces of cocaine or something?

    They were specially trained dogs at sniffing out bodies, not drugs.


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    #2085
    daenerysstormborn3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,213 ✭✭✭daenerysstormborn3


    Yes there are HUGE discrepancies in this story but I agree with other posters saying they would not stay this vocal for this long if they were guilty. It has been 4 years now (I think) not a few months.

    There are plenty of kids that go missing and the parents just fade into a long list of "parents of missing kids" and nobody thinks any different of them for not being so vocal so it works both ways.

    I think it would've been very easy for a member of staff in the hotel to let it slip to an opportunistic person that there were kids left unattended in their rooms for hours at a time and this person to act on it. A member of staff may have mentioned it while in earshot of another guest or a passer-by.


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    #2086
    ppink
    Registered Users Posts: 1,458 ✭✭✭ppink


    I was interested in the whole dog side of things and decided to look up the cadaver dog Eddie used in this case and came on this site

    http://dogsdontlie.com/main/2008/09/madeleine-mccann-died-after-fall-down-steps/

    Is this seriously the site belonging to Eddie and Keela's trainer?? If it is it is very unprofessional.......especially click on the memoriam section.


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    #2087
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users Posts: 16,134 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    Just for the record ,Calpol doesnt sedate . It would take alot more than paracetomol to sedate a little child .But I actually know two doctors who had no qualms about sedating their own kids on long haul flights . Thye knew what to give and made no bones about it either .
    Not saying the Mc Canns did or didnt , just saying they would know what to give and it wouldnt be Calpol


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    #2088
    metrovelvet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭metrovelvet


    iamwhoiam wrote: »
    Just for the record ,Calpol doesnt sedate . It would take alot more than paracetomol to sedate a little child .But I actually know two doctors who had no qualms about sedating their own kids on long haul flights . Thye knew what to give and made no bones about it either .
    Not saying the Mc Canns did or didnt , just saying they would know what to give and it wouldnt be Calpol

    A lot of parents sedate their kids with dozol and other types of over the counter stuff.


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    #2089
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users Posts: 16,134 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    pixiebean22 wrote: »
    I think it would've been very easy for a member of staff in the hotel to let it slip to an opportunistic person that there were kids left unattended in their rooms for hours at a time and this person to act on it. A member of staff may have mentioned it while in earshot of another guest or a passer-by.
    And any local or visitor for that matter would choose 5a first as it was totally exposed to the open public road .


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    #2090
    Kess73
    Registered Users Posts: 25,560 ✭✭✭✭Kess73


    ppink wrote: »
    I was interested in the whole dog side of things and decided to look up the cadaver dog Eddie used in this case and came on this site

    http://dogsdontlie.com/main/2008/09/madeleine-mccann-died-after-fall-down-steps/

    Is this seriously the site belonging to Eddie and Keela's trainer?? If it is it is very unprofessional.......especially click on the memoriam section.



    I don't think that site has anything to do with the trainer. If you take a read through it there is a section where the person putting up information saying they had to go and look for info on how accurate dogs can be in assisting police.

    It looks more like a site where someone is cashing in on the dogs and their involvement in the case, along with no believing the McCanns at all.

    Some of what is on the site is linked to what was published in the official police reports and makes for interesting reading, but there is stuff there that is just based on hunches as well, which imho takes away from the impact of the actual published stuff.


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    #2091
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users Posts: 16,134 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    metrovelvet wrote: »
    A lot of parents sedate their kids with dozol and other types of over the counter stuff.
    Yes , I know they do .Dozol contains Diphenhydramine Hydrochloride which Calpol does not .Its a sedating anti histimine.And more than that would be readily available to a GP .


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    #2092
    Little Acorn
    Registered Users Posts: 1,531 ✭✭✭Little Acorn


    ppink wrote: »
    I was interested in the whole dog side of things and decided to look up the cadaver dog Eddie used in this case and came on this site

    http://dogsdontlie.com/main/2008/09/madeleine-mccann-died-after-fall-down-steps/

    Is this seriously the site belonging to Eddie and Keela's trainer?? If it is it is very unprofessional.......especially click on the memoriam section.

    I don't think that site is an official site for the dogs, it seems to be entirely just about the Madeline McCann case which would be fine, but tbh I find their "merchandise" section which includes a baby vest thing, pretty distasteful.
    As far as I know the dogs trainer has his own company now for the last few years, and has been asked by British authorities not to comment publicly on the McCann case, so I doubt he would have a website about the case.
    I will try to find the link of where I read about his company.


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    #2093
    Little Acorn
    Registered Users Posts: 1,531 ✭✭✭Little Acorn


    First link I've found about that story,it's just from some forum, but I will try to find a more reliable link to the actual story.:
    http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CBYQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fmissingmadeleine.forumotion.net%2Ft14824-police-tell-martin-grimes-not-to-comment-about-mccann-case&ei=i3jSTfilH5K2hAfAsKz1CQ&usg=AFQjCNG81eH11GIHDxaerG-Q_xj1rFHatg



    This is the article that was quoted in the forum reply that I found. It's from the Daily Mail though, and I've come to know that newspaper has a bad rep here on boards, so make of it what you will! Ha Ha. :-)
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1385336/Kate-McCann-Madeleine-guilt-meant-I-make-love-Gerry.html#ixzz1LwCzNkCo


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    #2094
    ppink
    Registered Users Posts: 1,458 ✭✭✭ppink


    Ah i think this is it so

    http://www.gssi.uk.com/en/ourservices

    there are so many websites out there and many of them really anti mccann it is amazing!


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    #2095
    OutlawPete
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,689 ✭✭✭✭OutlawPete


    prinz wrote: »
    They were specially trained dogs at sniffing out bodies, not drugs.

    One of the dogs was and one wasn't. The one that picks up scent of human blood, can do that even if it is years old, but I wouldn't just dismiss it of course, just don't think that is as key to the story as it would seem. Wasn't there a scent picked up at the bottom of the steps also, suggesting a fall?
    prinz wrote: »
    For most people yes. For some people no. Look at Joe O'Reilly. No problems with going on TLLS to discuss how he thought someone had done it.

    Yes, but he didn't fly all over the world and give as many interviews as they have done. I just don't accept that they could or would be this active if they had anything to do with the death or disappearance. I still believe that the only person that seems like a liar to me, is Jane Tanner, what she says does not add up whatsoever. Not been seen by Gerry and the other man, seeing a man carrying a child but not saying anything about it until the disappearance, being more descriptive months later than she was on that night, saying the man was notably over dressed for the weather, but the the girl was notably under dressed for the weather, plus the fact that she is the only person who appears shifty to me whenever I have seen her on camera.

    If she did lie about seeing a man carrying a child, why would she do that? What is she trying to divert attention away from? Could it be to give the impression, that what was to happen in the next fifteen minutes, had already occurred? Then at 10:05pm, when she is told that Maddie is missing, she blurts out, for the first time:"OMG, I seen a man carrying a child". How convenient.


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    #2096
    Little Acorn
    Registered Users Posts: 1,531 ✭✭✭Little Acorn


    ppink wrote: »
    Ah i think this is it so

    http://www.gssi.uk.com/en/ourservices

    there are so many websites out there and many of them really anti mccann it is amazing!

    That looks like the correct site, cheers for the link, will have a read over it later.:)


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    #2097
    Elliemental
    Closed Accounts Posts: 924 ✭✭✭Elliemental


    sxt wrote: »
    This is a couple who will do anything to court the media and muster public support to thier own gain.

    Their own gain? Chances are they just want to "gain" the return of their daughter. However, if you want to believe the conspiracy theories and pass moral judgement on parents, who cannot even grieve properly, then fair enough. And ofcourse they'll do anything it takes to keep this matter in the public eye. That child was their daughter! Most parents would strive to do the same.


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    #2098
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    OutlawPete wrote: »
    I just don't accept that they could or would be this active if they had anything to do with the death or disappearance.

    I don't accept that people with nothing to hide would sit in interviews with police and refuse to answer questions. Or the myriad of other unexplained issues that arose such as deleted phone logs etc. Why would they not be 100% upfront?
    OutlawPete wrote: »
    I still believe that the only person that seems like a liar to me, is Jane Tanner, what she says does not add up whatsoever. .

    She's not the only one. Other of the group including the McCanns have contradicted each other and have wilfully impeded the investigation. Perhaps it's not the disappearance of Madeleine but they are hiding/covering up something. Surely when you are that concerned about your missing child you would come completely clean? Why haven't they?


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    #2099
    OutlawPete
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,689 ✭✭✭✭OutlawPete


    prinz wrote: »
    Perhaps it's not the disappearance of Madeleine but they are hiding/covering up something. Surely when you are that concerned about your missing child you would come completely clean? Why haven't they?

    I believe they have come clean. I think they are lying about one thing though, that they didn't drug her that night. I think after what Madeleine said about the night before, I think they knocked her out for the night, but other than that, I think they don't know. I have no doubt whatsoever that they believe to their core, that she could still be alive. I think they are also lying when they say that they think it was fine leaving them there, but they are lying to themselves on that as much as anyone else.

    Again I come back to Jane Tanner, there was even that young Irish girl who seen Gerry and Wilkins talking, yet did not see her or the guy carrying the girl in the blanket/pjammas. Too much of what she says, either sounds like bull**** or just is too weird for it to even happen. The descriptions she gave are that of either a liar or a fantasist.


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    #2100
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 55,694 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Elliemental wrote: »
    Their own gain? Chances are they just want to "gain" the return of their daughter. However, if you want to believe the conspiracy theories and pass moral judgement on parents, who cannot even grieve properly, then fair enough. And ofcourse they'll do anything it takes to keep this matter in the public eye. That child was their daughter! Most parents would strive to do the same.

    Just a shame they didn't treat her as a daughter, or prized possession, when they were on holiday.


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    #2101
    Mistyeyes321
    Registered Users Posts: 186 ✭✭Mistyeyes321


    Elliemental wrote: »
    Their own gain? Chances are they just want to "gain" the return of their daughter. However, if you want to believe the conspiracy theories and pass moral judgement on parents, who cannot even grieve properly, then fair enough. And ofcourse they'll do anything it takes to keep this matter in the public eye. That child was their daughter! Most parents would strive to do the same.

    I would like to be a Millionair but guess what I forgot to put the Lotto on big Mistake on my Part I take full Respeonsiblity!

    The MC'A aren't going to Gain the return of their Daughter imho but I don't see them taking any Responsibility...Instead all they do is Point their Grubby Little Finger's at anyone they want to! Whether they have Reason to or not...It was this Fella, it was that Fella, It was the One Legged pot washer The big Bad Wolf etc etc etc...NO it was them who left them Babies in Danger no one else THEM.. They chose to walk out that door for however long & turn their back's on three Defencless Babies...So excuse me if I don't give a Flier about their Feeling's!! The only person who Paid the Price for their Neglect was Maddie! But hey Ho we all make Mistake's right?! Walking out & Leaving Three Babies wasn't a Mistake it was deliberate & they did it every night...Odious Pair Of Twonk's get no Sympathy from me!


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