Gerry and Kate Mcann promoting Book on Late Late next week

Mickeroo

Mountainsandh wrote: »

But that's the thing, nothing, absolutely nothing was found out. It's like the child vanished into thin air.
What are the chances of a top notch investigation yielding nothing, absolutely nothing ?

I was just looking at an American site for missing children which claimed that from a 62% recovery rate they had (with the help of the organisation that run the site) reached a 97 % rate of children found. I think it's "missingchildren.com" in the Success Stories section.

A good friend of mine has been missing a couple of years, he was in his mid twenties, vanished into thin air in Holland, no trace, it happens. Different circumstances obviously though.....

97% of kids found doesnt sound very plausible I'm afraid, I could be wrong though.

Mountainsandh

There is a massive difference between an investigation into the disappearance of an adult and a child though.

I think Kate McCann mentions a success rate statistic in the book too, and I too was surprised to find it was so high. Probably not in the 90s though, could have been in the 70s percentage. And of course that statistic more than likely includes finding bodies.

edit : the missingkids site has a great deal of information. Didn't read the entire thing, but skimmed it pretty thoroughly, and this PDF doc has a few numbers. It doesn't give an overall statistic for recovery, especially since the "stereotypical abduction" cases include kids that were abducted a few hours then returned home themselves. But it does say that 40% of victims were killed, while only 4% were still missing.
http://cybertipline.org/en_US/documents/nismart2_nonfamily.pdf

Mistyeyes321

I would just like to say to everyone on this Thread, I am part of No tag Team I don't know one person on this Thread, & i'm sure the Moderators would be able to see if i'm private emailing anyone on this Board!

I have never said anything Regarding Mrs M Appearance not her Breast, Face, Feet, Etc etc. I think if people are going to make claim's like the Above then please feel free to prove them too!

Infact I think you will find the only person to mention Breast & Blond Hair was Mrs M herself!

I have said I have no Sympathy for this Pair & I have said they are both Odious & whether some people like this or not it's my Opinion & I along with many other's are entitled to it.!

I have stated Clearly I do not know what happened to Maddie & the only Blame I personally Lay at the MC'S Feet is the Total Disregard they shown these three Babies, By walking away night after night & Leaving these Babies in Danger! In a Dark Room Crying for the very people who should have been there to make sure no Harm came to them....What a Dispicable Pair these Parents are...Yet some on this thread think it's ok, So they made a Mistake etc etc...It wasn't a Mistake it was deliberate everynight proves this without any Doubt! Yet here some are Blaming the PJ or the British PF & the Many Private Dick's this Pair have Hired everyone else is to Blame because this Pair of Numpty's Left their Prized Possesion's alone & in Danger not just from the Supposed Abductor, But Fire, Fall's,Choking, The list is Endless! But these Pair are Inteligent Right?! Stop blaming everyone else for the Disappearance of your Child it was use two who Left these Children no one else use two! Even the Priest has Turned his Back on them...Seriously are all these other People wrong?! When are the Mccanns going to hold their Grubby stained hands up & admit they was wrong!...I take it I along with Many other's will have to wait till the 12th Of Never..

goat2

Mistyeyes321 wrote: »

I would just like to say to everyone on this Thread, I am part of No tag Team I don't know one person on this Thread, & i'm sure the Moderators would be able to see if i'm private emailing anyone on this Board!

I have never said anything Regarding Mrs M Appearance not her Breast, Face, Feet, Etc etc. I think if people are going to make claim's like the Above then please feel free to prove them too!

Infact I think you will find the only person to mention Breast & Blond Hair was Mrs M herself!

I have said I have no Sympathy for this Pair & I have said they are both Odious & whether some people like this or not it's my Opinion & I along with many other's are entitled to it.!

I have stated Clearly I do not know what happened to Maddie & the only Blame I personally Lay at the MC'S Feet is the Total Disregard they shown these three Babies, By walking away night after night & Leaving these Babies in Danger! In a Dark Room Crying for the very people who should have been there to make sure no Harm came to them....What a Dispicable Pair these Parents are...Yet some on this thread think it's ok, So they made a Mistake etc etc...It wasn't a Mistake it was deliberate everynight proves this without any Doubt! Yet here some are Blaming the PJ or the British PF & the Many Private Dick's this Pair have Hired everyone else is to Blame because this Pair of Numpty's Left their Prized Possesion's alone & in Danger not just from the Supposed Abductor, But Fire, Fall's,Choking, The list is Endless! But these Pair are Inteligent Right?! Stop blaming everyone else for the Disappearance of your Child it was use two who Left these Children no one else use two! Even the Priest has Turned his Back on them...Seriously are all these other People wrong?! When are the Mccanns going to hold their Grubby stained hands up & admit they was wrong!...I take it I along with Many other's will have to wait till the 12th Of Never..

they know they made a big mistake, a mistake they regret every day since their daughter went missing, i think we should not make them feel worse by still reminding them, they do not need reminding, as everyday is a reminder since then, without their daughter, but i do not blame them that their daughter is missing,
i blame the person who entered their apartment and took their child, they had no right to enter their apartment, never mind taking a precious little girl.

prinz

goat2 wrote: »

they know they made a big mistake, a mistake they regret every day since their daughter went missing, i think we should not make them feel worse by still reminding them, they do not need reminding....

They do need reminding for as long as they go on television shows like The Late Late Show and point the finger at resort staff etc for what they did, and for as long as they avoid admitting that they did in fact make a mistake themselves, because IIRC on TLLS they didn't directly admit that they made a mistake/screwed up.

Mountainsandh

It's amazing the sense of self-entitlement thing going on, it's like McCann "haters" think they/people in general are owed an apology. Who are we to expect an apology from the McCanns ? It's their problem, whether they apologise to us or not is not going to make one blind bit of a difference to their daughter's fate.

And the way it is presented above, is that they deserved it because they left the kids alone. So if you make a parenting mistake, like leaving your kid, unattended near a swimming pool, you deserve for the kid to die, and should apologize to strangers for your parenting mistake.

Scary reasoning, and I really really hope whoever thinks that way never ever makes a parenting mistake themselves.

prinz

Mountainsandh wrote: »

It's amazing the sense of self-entitlement thing going on, it's like McCann "haters" think they/people in general are owed an apology. Who are we to expect an apology from the McCanns? It's their problem, whether they apologise to us or not is not going to make one blind bit of a difference to their daughter's fate..

Is this aimed at me? If it is (a) I'm not a McCann "hater" and (b) I couldn't give a flying feck if they apologise or not. Admitting they made a major cock up in leaving three young kids under 3 alone in an apartment while they went off for dinner would be a good place to start.

The McCanns shouldered the most responsibility as to care and safety of their three kids on their holidays. Do you not think it's strange that they can deflect any mention of the fact that they monumentally screwed up with a blasé 'hindsight is perfect' only minutes after basically implicating a member of the resort staff in the disappearance because of what they wrote completely innocently in the restaurant reservation book? I find it strange personally.

Jesus Wept

At what point does 'a mistake' become neglect.
They left their kids alone night after night after night. That's neglect.

Mountainsandh

Prinz tbh I didn't pay attention exactly to who posted what so this is a general remark, not aimed at a particular poster.


Neglect still doesn't justify strangers expecting an apology.

Even "admitting" the facts : are we judges, that we should have them admitting the facts before us ?

They are doing the media thing for reasons they have made clear, that doesn't give us a claim to their "admitting" or "regretting" or "apologising" for anything. That might help their cause if they did, in the sense that some people might change their minds and decide to support them from then on.

Mistyeyes321

goat2 wrote: »

they know they made a big mistake, a mistake they regret every day since their daughter went missing, i think we should not make them feel worse by still reminding them, they do not need reminding, as everyday is a reminder since then, without their daughter, but i do not blame them that their daughter is missing,
i blame the person who entered their apartment and took their child, they had no right to enter their apartment, never mind taking a precious little girl.

I am a Parent & have Made Many Many Mistakes in my life...Again this wasn't a Mistake, They didn't just walk out to the Tapas Bar then goo OOOPPPS did we forgoet anything? Credit Card? oooo Dear we forgot the Kids!!
Big Difference that don't you think?
It wasn't a Mistake it was deliberate everynight & why should everyone feel sorry for this Moronic Pair? So what if they have to live with this everyday of their lives why shouldn't they? Wasn't it them who made the Decision to leave them Babies alone? Or have I got it all wrong maybe it was the PJ Fault for this too, Just like the One legged Pot washer & the list goes on & on!! I'm not sorry to say I hope one day they find Maddie alive & just Maybe she might start to Live her Life too as the MCS have been doing since leaving these Babies in Danger on that Fateful night & the Previous night's Too...However I believe this Child has already lost what Life she had because her Parent's didn't care enough to hire a Babysitter!! Now you & others can wrap this up however you like it still doesn't alter the Fact that Million's of People believe these pair made it easy for any Abduction to take place!! Not that I believe or disbelive the Abduction Theory. Jackanory...

prinz

Mountainsandh wrote: »

Prinz tbh I didn't pay attention exactly to who posted what so this is a general remark, not aimed at a particular poster.

Fair enough.

Mountainsandh wrote: »

Even "admitting" the facts : are we judges, that we should have them admitting the facts before us ?

In a sense we are in that the McCann's have from day one opted for the trial by public opinion/trial by media. That's why they constantly peddle their own version of events to convince everyone it's true. If we aren't 'judges' why do they discuss the investigation and their theories?

Mountainsandh wrote: »

They are doing the media thing for reasons they have made clear, that doesn't give us a claim to their "admitting" or "regretting" or "apologising" for anything. That might help their cause if they did, in the sense that some people might change their minds and decide to support them from then on.

I don't care what we have a 'claim' on. I am talking about common sense and decency from them to say that they made a massive mistake, (repeatedly :rolleyes:) and appeal to other parents not to do the same thing. If an interviewer asks them 'do you regret leaving them that night' surely the obvious answer for someone in their position is 'yes, we shouldn't have done that', they could even leave it at that. They don't.

K-9

Mountainsandh wrote: »

And the way it is presented above, is that they deserved it because they left the kids alone. So if you make a parenting mistake, like leaving your kid, unattended near a swimming pool, you deserve for the kid to die, and should apologize to strangers for your parenting mistake.

Scary reasoning, and I really really hope whoever thinks that way never ever makes a parenting mistake themselves.

Now that's scary reasoning and to use the hated phrase, "straw manning" at it's best.

EGAR

You can all crucify me now but I knew something was fishy when they went to *visit* the Pope 3 weeks after Maddie *disappeared* and left their remaining kids behind in Portugal. It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever and then of course only 4 weeks after the disappearance:

The couple are also due to visit Spain, the Netherlands, Morocco and Germany to raise awareness of their daughter's disappearance.

WTF?

Mountainsandh

I don't think they're appealing to us to approve or disapprove of them, and accept or not their version of events, they just want to keep the media talking about their daughter, again, for reasons that they have made clear (money for the fund, old or new information on what happened to the little one).

That's not a trial by media, that's using the media to try and find their daughter. The trial by media is something that happens as an aside, because some people think they are entitled to judge. Fair enough, I make judgements about things I see in the news and people all the time too, I love b*tching and moaning just as much as anyone else. But I don't turn my b*tching and moaning into a witch-hunt either.

I'm sure highlighting the events has (hopefully) scared other people into not leaving their kids alone, who might have done so before, regardless of whether the McCanns expressly said : "don't do it" and "we shouldn't have done that".

On how "decent" it would be to say "we shouldn't have done it", I would simply try and see it from their point of view : they have already lost a child, and by saying out right "we shouldn't have done it", they would be taking the chance of having social services possibly trying to take their other children away.
I don't think their twins should be taken from them, and I think if I was in their situation I would not pronounce these words either and take that chance.
But that's because I wouldn't personnally cross the line and call it child neglect.

Mountainsandh

K-9 wrote: »

Now that's scary reasoning and to use the hated phrase, "straw manning" at it's best.

That's drawing a parallel between two parenting mistakes with potential tragic consequences.

K-9

Mountainsandh wrote: »

That's drawing a parallel between two parenting mistakes with potential tragic consequences.

Look, if they'd stayed in the chance of a kidapping lessened massively. Locking windows, front door and patio doors, that type of stuff.

Get a baby sitter in and do the above, good chance of no kidnapping.

Get a baby listening device, might have heard something and they had a minute to get there.

Forget kidnapping. The children reportedly woke up previously, seemed a bit distressed, chance of toddlers waking up sick, wandering etc.

Given the above and eventualities I haven't thought of, not good.

If they'd stayed in, got a babysitter they might have got alerted quicker. So, Maddie might never have been kidnapped or very quickly the alert went out.

None of the above means they did it, just nobody knows when she was kidnapped and what happened.

Mistyeyes321

EGAR wrote: »

You can all crucify me now but I knew something was fishy when they went to *visit* the Pope 3 weeks after Maddie *disappeared* and left their remaining kids behind in Portugal. It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever and then of course only 4 weeks after the disappearance:



WTF?

Absolutly enough said really isn't it?! Off like a shot from a Gun! No Lesson's learned!....The So Called Audience with the Pope was another Fiasco. I'm sure I read he didn't actually meet them unlike Gerry's Blog would have us Believe! Another Load of Bullshine...:mad:
Can someone explain to me how speaking some words rather than other's are going to bring the Social services banging at their door?! & something else keep's bothereing me. How would the MCS know how the PJ run a Investigation? For them to believe saying No Comment to any question asked was the best way Forward!! I know people on here are Suggesting they we're advised to do this by a Lawyer, But like eveything else no one know's for sure do they?! I'm sure my only thought would be to help the Police officers the very best I could not Hinder them while my child's life was hanging in the Balance!....As for the reconstruction none of the Tapas 9 will attend, The only reason imho is that it would prove them all for the Liar's they are!

dark crystal

Mistyeyes321 wrote: »

Absolutly enough said really isn't it?! Off like a shot from a Gun! No Lesson's learned!....The So Called Audience with the Pope was another Fiasco. I'm sure I read he didn't actually meet them unlike Gerry's Blog would have us Believe! Another Load of Bullshine...:mad:
Can someone explain to me how speaking some words rather than other's are going to bring the Social services banging at their door?! & something else keep's bothereing me. How would the MCS know how the PJ run a Investigation? For them to believe saying No Comment to any question asked was the best way Forward!! I know people on here are Suggesting they we're advised to do this by a Lawyer, But like eveything else no one know's for sure do they?! I'm sure my only thought would be to help the Police officers the very best I could not Hinder them while my child's life was hanging in the Balance!....As for the reconstruction none of the Tapas 9 will attend, The only reason imho is that it would prove them all for the Liar's they are!

Of course they met the Pope, it's well documented, photographed and filmed! http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6701819.stm

They would have been well within their rights not to answer questions as arguidos - they did, however fully co-operate with the police before they were announced as such. Perhaps they felt the police themselves were hindering the case by focusing primarily on them as suspects, instead of the real culprit.

However, I suspect nothing these people did subsequent to Madeleine's disappearance will seem right to some people, who are convinced of their guilt and looking for any excuse to damn them.

iamwhoiam

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

In fairness any thread relating to Madeleine usually ends up descending into McCann hating farce.

It is shocking the number of people willingy subscribing to 'Guily until proven Innocent 'in regard to Kate and Gerry but those of us with a more open mind can see past it.

I.

People can have an open mind and disagree with you , you know . I have an open mind , I wil make no accusations but I do doubt alot of the stories and witnesses . I find your thinking that only those who agree with you "have an open mind " a little holier than thou actually

In fact open minds are curious and dont easily believe without full proof . So they search for answers and question indiscrepincies . Open minds find stories that change over time a little odd , open minds read up and find that some things simply dont tie in .

Be this due to covering up that the group did not check their kids or gave them sedation is very open and an open mind would question why two year old twins sleep through screaming mother , people alll over the apartment and are lifted to another apartment without waking .
Open minds question , I make no excuses or apologies for my open mind

sunflower27

iamwhoiam wrote: »

People can have an open mind and disagree with you , you know . I have an open mind , I wil make no accusations but I do doubt alot of the stories and witnesses . I find your thinking that only those who agree with you "have an open mind " a little holier than thou actually

In fact open minds are curious and dont easily believe without full proof . So they search for answers and question indiscrepincies . Open minds find stories that change over time a little odd , open minds read up and find that some things simply dont tie in .

Be this due to covering up that the group did not check their kids or gave them sedation is very open and an open mind would question why two year old twins sleep through screaming mother , people alll over the apartment and are lifted to another apartment without waking .
Open minds question , I make no excuses for my open mind

I totally agree. A closed mind is not open to looking at possibilities - especially in light of so much conflicting evidence.

LizT

EGAR wrote: »

You can all crucify me now but I knew something was fishy when they went to *visit* the Pope 3 weeks after Maddie *disappeared* and left their remaining kids behind in Portugal. It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever and then of course only 4 weeks after the disappearance:



WTF?

Why is that fishy? Kate McCann is a Catholic and seems very devoted to her faith. The Pope is the head of the catholic church and they got an oppurtunity to meet him. It keeps Madeliene's dissapperance in the headlines.

No devout Catholic would refuse the opportunity to meet with the pope, especially if they had been praying for something for a while.

And they left their kids with their friends, they were gone for a day.

goat2

i often let my children with friends, what is so wrong with that, i was at a big event once with my four very young children, it was thronged with people, in one second one of them disappeared from my sight, i will never forget the mental anguish i went through for that time, he was found just strolling around crying looking for me, lucky i ran to guards and stage front the minuit it happened, when he was found they called for me to come, that four hours i will never forget and that was 22 yrs ago, i only lived in their shoes for four hours, i admire them trying to keep going in this awful senario

Silver Moon

the McCanns use their Catholicism as a pure convenience.

LizT

Silver Moon wrote: »

the McCanns use their Catholicism as a pure convenience.

why?

AudreyHepburn

iamwhoiam wrote: »

People can have an open mind and disagree with you , you know . I have an open mind , I wil make no accusations but I do doubt alot of the stories and witnesses . I find your thinking that only those who agree with you "have an open mind " a little holier than thou actually

In fact open minds are curious and dont easily believe without full proof . So they search for answers and question indiscrepincies . Open minds find stories that change over time a little odd , open minds read up and find that some things simply dont tie in .

Be this due to covering up that the group did not check their kids or gave them sedation is very open and an open mind would question why two year old twins sleep through screaming mother , people alll over the apartment and are lifted to another apartment without waking .
Open minds question , I make no excuses or apologies for my open mind

I am not critising people for differing from me, not at all. Obviously we all hold different opinions on this. I was not trying to be holier-than-thou at all so apologies if it came across that way!

I was talking about those who have decided the McCanns are guilty and refuse to acknowledge any other possibilties. Of that is true of people on both sides of the argument.

I believe them to be innocent but am open to the possibility they are not.

AudreyHepburn

Silver Moon wrote: »

the McCanns use their Catholicism as a pure convenience.

Why would they do that? What difference would it make?

If it gives them comfort more power to them.

iamwhoiam

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

I am not critising people for differing from me, not at all. Obviously we all hold different opinions on this. I was not trying to be holier-than-thou at all so apologies if it came across that way!

I was talking about those who have decided the McCanns are guilty and refuse to acknowledge any other possibilties. Of that is true of people on both sides of the argument.

I believe them to be innocent but am open to the possibility they are not.

Thats fair enough .,I know we differ on this subject but you have been fair to me and I will be to you . I dont believe them to be anything as I really dont know .I do think they have major part to play and are at fault for neglect and selfish actions . I think if it was an abductor ( of which I am not convinced ) the Mc Canns are extremely lucky that not all three children were taken .As they all but handed them to him on a plate . Above and beyond that I really dont know .
I wish we did , for Madeleine and her siblings sake as I think the twins will have alot of troubled thoughts in the future .

EGAR

lizt wrote: »

Why is that fishy? Kate McCann is a Catholic and seems very devoted to her faith. The Pope is the head of the catholic church and they got an oppurtunity to meet him. It keeps Madeliene's dissapperance in the headlines.

Believe me it was three weeks after her disappearance and it WAS very much in the headlines! Correct me if I am wrong but I thought the stance of the Catholic Church on IVF is clear and no *devout* Catholic would go against the teachings of the Church? And why did they sent for an Anglican minister then, not a Catholic Priest?

lizt wrote: »

No devout Catholic would refuse the opportunity to meet with the pope, especially if they had been praying for something for a while.

I am pretty sure many devout Catholics would rather stay where their kid disappeared and help all they can THERE instead of jetting off to meet the Pope.

lizt wrote: »

And they left their kids with their friends, they were gone for a day.

If I had just lost a child under those circumstance I would not let my other kids out of my sight ever again. Not for second.


They paid off their mortgage with donations, sent the kids to private school, some nice people that :rolleyes:.

Silver Moon

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Why would they do that? What difference would it make?

If it gives them comfort more power to them.

they don't deserve comfort - they still refuse to accept responsibility for what ever it was that happened to their daughter, but rather they continue to blame everyone else. They are a pathetic excuse for parents.

Happyman42

Silver Moon wrote: »

they don't deserve comfort - they still refuse to accept responsibility for what ever it was that happened to their daughter, but rather they continue to blame everyone else. They are a pathetic excuse for parents.

Pointlessly accepting responsibility would only make you, and people like you up on the higher moral ground, feel better though.