Gerry and Kate Mcann promoting Book on Late Late next week

Silver Moon

why would it be pointless for them to accept responsibilty? Looking after their daughter was their responsibility and they failed miserably.

Happyman42

She has plainly said that she suffered horrific and debilitating guilt for years after the event. That's enough for anyone calling themselves a fellow human imo.

Silver Moon

if I had been responsible for my child disappearing then I would feel guilty too

however, the McCanns persist in blaming the Portugese police, the British police, the Portugese public, the British public, the staff at the hotel, people who were staying in PDL at the time, the media, anyone show dares questions their version of events, etc etc etc

feeling upset does not absolve them of responsibility - they continue to this very day to claim that leaving three young children with a combined age of less than seven, alone in an unlocked apartment, in the dark, out of earshot and out of eyesight, night after night, was acceptable parenting.

They have done nothing to look for their missing daughter and everything to try to cover their backs. They are only interested in themselves.

AudreyHepburn

Silver Moon wrote: »

they don't deserve comfort - they still refuse to accept responsibility for what ever it was that happened to their daughter, but rather they continue to blame everyone else. They are a pathetic excuse for parents.

Tbh there is no point in them trying to apologise because no matter what they say you and people like you twist it so you can use it as a reason to declare them guilty.

Silver Moon

well, there is plenty they have said that points to their guilt - but there is plenty that other people have said that point to it as well. And there is enough evidence in the police files to convince me that the McCanns know exactly what happened to their daughter - and it wasn't an abduction.

Hopefully this odious pair are ****ting themselves at the prospect of Scotland Yard going through the files and coming to the same conclusion as their Portugese counterparts. I wonder how the McCanns and their so-called friends will react when Britain's finest call them in for questioning?

Happyman42

Silver Moon wrote: »

if I had been responsible for my child disappearing then I would feel guilty too

however, the McCanns persist in blaming the Portugese police, the British police, the Portugese public, the British public, the staff at the hotel, people who were staying in PDL at the time, the media, anyone show dares questions their version of events, etc etc etc

feeling upset does not absolve them of responsibility - they continue to this very day to claim that leaving three young children with a combined age of less than seven, alone in an unlocked apartment, in the dark, out of earshot and out of eyesight, night after night, was acceptable parenting.

They have done nothing to look for their missing daughter and everything to try to cover their backs. They are only interested in themselves.

So what is this 'accepting responsibility' going to achieve.

Not everyone who does the wrong thing as a parent pays the price they paid.

AudreyHepburn

Silver Moon wrote: »

well, there is plenty they have said that points to their guilt - but there is plenty that other people have said that point to it as well. And there is enough evidence in the police files to convince me that the McCanns know exactly what happened to their daughter - and it wasn't an abduction.

Hopefully this odious pair are ****ting themselves at the prospect of Scotland Yard going through the files and coming to the same conclusion as their Portugese counterparts. I wonder how the McCanns and their so-called friends will react when Britain's finest call them in for questioning?

What evidence?

If there was such evidence they would have been arrested long ago. Or do you know something the rest of us including the Portuguese and English police don't?

LizT

EGAR wrote: »

Believe me it was three weeks after her disappearance and it WAS very much in the headlines! Correct me if I am wrong but I thought the stance of the Catholic Church on IVF is clear and no *devout* Catholic would go against the teachings of the Church? And why did they sent for an Anglican minister then, not a Catholic Priest?



I am pretty sure many devout Catholics would rather stay where their kid disappeared and help all they can THERE instead of jetting off to meet the Pope.



If I had just lost a child under those circumstance I would not let my other kids out of my sight ever again. Not for second.


They paid off their mortgage with donations, sent the kids to private school, some nice people that :rolleyes:.

They sent for a Catholic priest and there was none available so they were asked if an Anglican minister would do. Check your facts on that one!

It's ridiculous to state that you would never let the children out of your sight, how would they ever have anything resembling a normal life? Obviously you would be more protective of your children, I can pretty much guarantee you that the McCanns will never leave the twins without a babysitter again.

I don't agree with you about "using" the pope, I guess I am just not that cynical. As for travelling all over Europe to publicize Madeliene's case, I believe they were right to do so. If Madeliene was abducted, her abductor probably would not have kept her in Portugal with the amount of press attention the case was getting there. It is very possible she was brought to another European country.

Mistyeyes321

dark crystal wrote: »

Of course they met the Pope, it's well documented, photographed and filmed! http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6701819.stm

They would have been well within their rights not to answer questions as arguidos - they did, however fully co-operate with the police before they were announced as such. Perhaps they felt the police themselves were hindering the case by focusing primarily on them as suspects, instead of the real culprit.

However, I suspect nothing these people did subsequent to Madeleine's disappearance will seem right to some people, who are convinced of their guilt and looking for any excuse to damn them.

I worded that Wrong there My Bad...What I was refering to was, Gerry wrote on his Blog it was a Private Audience with the Pope & it wasn't. That is what I meant.!

Who are the MCS to say how any Police case should be Run? I was told both of them Are Doctor's Not Police Officer's?! IMO the only People Hindering any Investigation has been the MCS & their Friend's. Maybe if they had all Cooperated at the time. The Tax Payer would't have to pick a Huge bill up! Also maybe if they had just got a Babysitter instead of leaving them Babies in the Lap of the Gods we all wouldn't be here discussing the Lack of their Parenting Skill's!

Your quite right in thinking I for one will never be satisfied with any excuse this Pair come up with regarding leaving them Children alone IMO it's unforgivabale!

Stella89

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

What evidence?

If there was such evidence they would have been arrested long ago. Or do you know something the rest of us including the Portuguese and English police don't?

Are you for real AudreyHepburn?

There is NO evidence of an abduction which is what you support. That scenario was ruled out as being not possible by the international police dectectives working on the case! .

Testimonial evidence(The lies and changing stories of the mcanns and their mates, even Tubridy was taken back by Gerry mcanns lie two weeks ago!, dna evidence with a 99% match to madeline mcann found in the trye compartment of their rental car! ( rental car which was rented weeks after her "abduction"), specialist dog evidence who got the smell of a cadaver in the same rental car and in their appartment! , ALL evidence points to one scenario!...

It would be comfortable for people to belive it was some evil bogie man defying the laws of physics and stealing little girls .

Either you belive two people , gerry and kate mccann, or you believe the 100's of police dectectives from the U.k and Portugal, who spent thousands of hours investigating this case. Their conclusion is the opposite to the Mcanns . Simple . Who do you believe is telling the truth?

EGAR

lizt wrote: »

They sent for a Catholic priest and there was none available so they were asked if an Anglican minister would do. Check your facts on that one!

Since I am not a Catholic, I didn't think that second best would do for a *devout* Catholic? Anglican better than none, yes? :rolleyes:

It's ridiculous to state that you would never let the children out of your sight, how would they ever have anything resembling a normal life? Obviously you would be more protective of your children, I can pretty much guarantee you that the McCanns will never leave the twins without a babysitter again.

We were talking THREE weeks after the incident, not three years. Check your facts on that one! And thank you for calling common sense *ridiculous* - it says a lot !

I don't agree with you about "using" the pope, I guess I am just not that cynical.

Oh now, you brought the word *using* into it but thank you very much for pointing it out.

As for travelling all over Europe to publicize Madeliene's case, I believe they were right to do so. If Madeliene was abducted, her abductor probably would not have kept her in Portugal with the amount of press attention the case was getting there. It is very possible she was brought to another European country.

Operative word here is IF. But anyhow, what makes you think that IF she was abducted she would not be kept in Portugal? They looked everywhere but.

And just to point something else out:
The Find Madeleine fund is a private limited company, not a charity. As such the fund is not subject to the scrutiny of the charities commission, to ensure that it is administered wisely. This enabled them to use the money to pay their mortgage etc.

Kate McCann obstructed the police investigation when she refused to answer more than 40 Question about the family, when asked by Portuguese Police. Kate and Gerry McCann and the" Tapas 7" refused to take part in the official police re-construction of events of 3 May 2007. It makes no sense whatsoever.

LizT

EGAR wrote: »

Since I am not a Catholic, I didn't think that second best would do for a *devout* Catholic? Anglican better than none, yes? :rolleyes:

We were talking THREE weeks after the incident, not three years. Check your facts on that one! And thank you for calling common sense *ridiculous* - it says a lot !

Oh now, you brought the word *using* into it but thank you very much for pointing it out.
Operative word here is IF. But anyhow, what makes you think that IF she was abducted she would not be kept in Portugal? They looked everywhere but.
And just to point something else out:
The Find Madeleine fund is a private limited company, not a charity. As such the fund is not subject to the scrutiny of the charities commission, to ensure that it is administered wisely. This enabled them to use the money to pay their mortgage etc.

Kate McCann obstructed the police investigation when she refused to answer more than 40 Question about the family, when asked by Portuguese Police. Kate and Gerry McCann and the" Tapas 7" refused to take part in the official police re-construction of events of 3 May 2007. It makes no sense whatsoever.

An anglican minister is Christian. I'm a catholic and if I was in a situation where I need a priest and there was only an Anglican minister I wouldn't turn around and refuse! It's not like a completely seperate religion, the core beliefs are the same.

I never said it was three years, so no thank you, I don't need to check my facts.

Can you please point out to me where I called common sense ridiculous as I certainly don't recall that.

Mountainsandh

The DNA found in the car has not been conclusively identified as that of Madeleine, so there is no evidence there. This was led and published by British police.

Armchair detectives here are repeating presumptions like a mantra, as expected, as often done over these last few years. We know nothing of what really happened behind the scenes, on their side, and on the Portugese and British police sides.

I believe them, and support them, and hope they will find their little girl. And I will keep an eye out for the child, especially on my holidays in Europe, and contribute money to their "company". I admire them for exposing themselves to such venom, to kickstart again the search for their daughter, when they could have chosen to remain quiet.
At least as a McCann's supporter I get to do something tangible, rather than just give out on the internet.

edit : oh, and I've no problem if my money helps them pay their mortgage. They need the time off work to keep up the search and their involvement in organisations to help find missing children.

Mistyeyes321

Mountainsandh wrote: »

The DNA found in the car has not been conclusively identified as that of Madeleine, so there is no evidence there. This was led and published by British police.

Armchair detectives here are repeating presumptions like a mantra, as expected, as often done over these last few years. We know nothing of what really happened behind the scenes, on their side, and on the Portugese and British police sides.

I believe them, and support them, and hope they will find their little girl. And I will keep an eye out for the child, especially on my holidays in Europe, and contribute money to their "company". I admire them for exposing themselves to such venom, to kickstart again the search for their daughter, when they could have chosen to remain quiet.
At least as a McCann's supporter I get to do something tangible, rather than just give out on the internet.

edit : oh, and I've no problem if my money helps them pay their mortgage. They need the time off work to keep up the search and their involvement in organisations to help find missing children.

Got to agree they should take that time off work & go looking for Missing Children, Shame they didn't go looking for their own Child. But Hey Ho We all make Mistakes & None of us are Perfect!

ForzaSaints

My opinion is that they went too the pope to ask for forgiveness.

Silver Moon

Mistyeyes321 wrote: »

Got to agree they should take that time off work & go looking for Missing Children, Shame they didn't go looking for their own Child. But Hey Ho We all make Mistakes & None of us are Perfect!

indeed - members of the Portugese public took time off work to search for Madeleine but they got no thanks for it, just ridicule.

Chicke

The DNA results were inconclusive.little acorn provided an excellent post and link to that a few days ago.
The smell of death detected by the dogs is something that I would like to find out more on.Eddie the dog used in the McCann story detected a cadaver smell in the haut de la garanne case and in the Shannon matthew case.
Both of which were proved inaccurate,in one case,in Jersey they thought they discovered a skull but it turned out to be a coconut!
If anyone has anymore evidence on this would be interested in hearing it
Where is the evidence that they paid off their mortgage.I had a look at their 2008 accounts which was audited independently and there is no such expense.They did spend a substantial proportion on legal fees and they paid espenses such as campaign management and about 7k hotel expenses but no payments made directly to themselves.
And again,where did they store the body.What about the fridge theory of the portuguese police?and anyone know about the old and faulty fridge that was replaced by GMcGann. The Portuguese police maintain that they hid the little girls body in a fridge and moved it after they hired a hire car

Silver Moon

the DNA results were inconclusive, however you miss the point - as all the McCann suporters do. The dogs DID alert to cadaver and blood. And as far as I am aware there is no record of anyone dying in apartment 5a - although there is a record of one member of the McCann member that has gone missing.

there is no dispute about two mortgage payments coming out of the fund - Mr Mitchell has admitted it himself. If you want to argue that it was okay for this happen, that's fine - but you can't deny it did happen.

AudreyHepburn

Silver Moon wrote: »

the DNA results were inconclusive, however you miss the point - as all the McCann suporters do. The dogs DID alert to cadaver and blood. And as far as I am aware there is no record of anyone dying in apartment 5a - although there is a record of one member of the McCann member that has gone missing.

there is no dispute about two mortgage payments coming out of the fund - Mr Mitchell has admitted it himself. If you want to argue that it was okay for this happen, that's fine - but you can't deny it did happen.

But it was never proven that it was Madeleine's DNA and scent, was it?

Have you concrete proof that no-one ever died in the apartment?

No hard evidence there tbh.

Kess73

Chicke wrote: »

The DNA results were inconclusive.little acorn provided an excellent post and link to that a few days ago.
The smell of death detected by the dogs is something that I would like to find out more on.Eddie the dog used in the McCann story detected a cadaver smell in the haut de la garanne case and in the Shannon matthew case.
Both of which were proved inaccurate,in one case,in Jersey they thought they discovered a skull but it turned out to be a coconut!
If anyone has anymore evidence on this would be interested in hearing it
Where is the evidence that they paid off their mortgage.I had a look at their 2008 accounts which was audited independently and there is no such expense.They did spend a substantial proportion on legal fees and they paid espenses such as campaign management and about 7k hotel expenses but no payments made directly to themselves.
And again,where did they store the body.What about the fridge theory of the portuguese police?and anyone know about the old and faulty fridge that was replaced by GMcGann. The Portuguese police maintain that they hid the little girls body in a fridge and moved it after they hired a hire car

That only came about after Gerry mentions replacing and dumping a faulty fridge without telling/complaining about it to the Villa/apartment owner.

He brought it up in his blog, then deleted it from the blog and could not remember where he dumped the old fridge.

It could be something, or it could be nothing at all, but any police force would not be doing their job if they did not ask about it and give Gerry the chance to show that it had nothing to do with the case. Him deleting stuff from the blog and then not being able to give details of where he dumped the fridge did not paint him in a good light, but while it could be seen as potentially suspicious behaviour it certainly is not proof of anything involving the child.

I just feel that if he had not deleted the blog entry and simply had said where the fridge was dumped, that the fridge could have been found and forensic tests could have been done to prove the dumping was genuine and for the reasons given by the McCanns.

Kess73

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

But it was never proven that it was Madeleine's DNA and scent, was it?

Have you concrete proof that no-one ever died in the apartment?

No hard evidence there tbh.

Hotel records say nobody was ever found dead in that apartment from when the hotel first opened.

Hospital records had nothing to suggest anyone ever came to a hospital dead or injured/ill from that apartment.

Police records showed no death, accidental or otherwise, had ever been recorded for that apartment or the rooms nearby.


So it would require all three sources to be wrong/lying for the McCann's suggestion of there having been a death there before they got there on the holiday.


Now that still does not mean the McCanns did something, but it does strongly suggest that there was never a dead body in that room at any time in the past.

Plus the cadaver dog was used on the apartments nearby and none of those apartments triggered a response.

K-9

Chicke wrote: »

The DNA results were inconclusive.little acorn provided an excellent post and link to that a few days ago.
The smell of death detected by the dogs is something that I would like to find out more on.Eddie the dog used in the McCann story detected a cadaver smell in the haut de la garanne case and in the Shannon matthew case.
Both of which were proved inaccurate,in one case,in Jersey they thought they discovered a skull but it turned out to be a coconut!
If anyone has anymore evidence on this would be interested in hearing it
Where is the evidence that they paid off their mortgage.I had a look at their 2008 accounts which was audited independently and there is no such expense.They did spend a substantial proportion on legal fees and they paid espenses such as campaign management and about 7k hotel expenses but no payments made directly to themselves.
And again,where did they store the body.What about the fridge theory of the portuguese police?and anyone know about the old and faulty fridge that was replaced by GMcGann. The Portuguese police maintain that they hid the little girls body in a fridge and moved it after they hired a hire car

From what I've read the dogs detected teeth in Jersey.

Kess73

ForzaSaints wrote: »

My opinion is that they went too the pope to ask for forgiveness.

They may well have done so.


But if they did go for forgiveness it could be argued that it could be forgiveness for leaving the children alone and unprotected rather than forgiveness for having done something to the child.

goat2

Silver Moon wrote: »

why would it be pointless for them to accept responsibilty? Looking after their daughter was their responsibility and they failed miserably.

you are missing the point, the person who took that little girl are to blame for this whole thing, so if i leave my door open, does not mean that i want someone to come in unenvited and take something most precious.does it give them the right to step inside my door. in this case no

Kess73

goat2 wrote: »

you are missing the point, the person who took that little girl are to blame for this whole thing, so if i leave my door open, does not mean that i want someone to come in unenvited and take something most precious.does it give them the right to step inside my door. in this case no

If there was an abductor or abductors, then of course they are totally to blame for the abduction itself. I don't think anyone could blame the McCanns for the mindset of an abductor nor could the McCanns be blamed for making anyone perform an abduction.


What people have said is that the McCanns showed a large degree of neglect to leave three toddlers all alone in an unlocked apartment and then going off drinking. The three toddlers were left in a position where they were unsafe and not just from abductors.

One could have fallen, gotten sick, run a bath and fallen in, cot death etc etc.

The McCanns are to blame for their own poor parenting, that one is totally on them as they decided to leave three toddlers alone and they decided to leave the door unlocked.

But they are not guilty for the midset of an individual who would abduct a child, nor did they force that individual, if there was an abductor, to take their child.


But they certainly made it easy for that kind of person to strike.

Silver Moon

goat2 wrote: »

you are missing the point, the person who took that little girl are to blame for this whole thing, so if i leave my door open, does not mean that i want someone to come in unenvited and take something most precious.does it give them the right to step inside my door. in this case no

You are missing the point. There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that anyone 'took' Madeleine McCann.

LizT

Silver Moon wrote: »

You are missing the point. There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that anyone 'took' Madeleine McCann.

Where's the evidence that she wasn't taken? I have yet to be convinced.

Happyman42

Silver Moon wrote: »

You are missing the point. There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that anyone 'took' Madeleine McCann.

Who would be less likely to leave evidence behind them.....a scheming, predatory child kidnapper who may have done it before or parents and a group of their friends (with no criminal record or no history of child neglect) who suddenly found themselves with a dead child on their hands?

the only conclusive evidence is that they were irresponsible. Which isn't a hanging offence yet or the gallowsmen/women would be very busy.

Kess73

lizt wrote: »

Where's the evidence that she wasn't taken? I have yet to be convinced.

The total lack of evidence to suggest that there was any intruder, coupled with the fact that all the claims of things like forced shutters were proven to be false. Plus the layers of lichen and dust on and around the window frame were totally undisturbed.

Plus the instistence of the McCanns to this day that the shutter/window was used despite the fact that forensic tests showed that what the McCanns claimed happened did not.

We also have the McCanns claiming that the child could not have gotten out of her bed and opened the unlocked door and been grabbed by an abductor that way.

We have a lot of claims from the McCanns as to what defo did not happen in that room that night despite the fact they are in no position to make those claims if they were at a table some 150 yards away.

From my pov a lot of things could have potentially happened (and for the sake of my assuptions I am going to say that the McCanns are at their table and nowhere else) in that room.

One is the shutter/window theory that the McCanns claimed happened, maybe an abductor could have done so without leaving any evidence at all, did not even disturb the layers of dust and lichen on the window, and managed to lock the shutter from the outside. The same shutter that Gerry McCanns has said that he opened and shut after he heard Madeline was gone in order to test it (bit of a weird thing to be testing as your very first act after hearing your child is missing) but somehow his fingerprints were not found on the shutter, only Kate's were found on it.


Next possible scenario is that an abductor came in through the unlocked door, grabbed the child, and left through the unlocked door. Now that sounds plausible enough to me, but the McCanns have strongly opposed this suggestion.


Next possible scenario is that the child woke up. Looked for her parents and opened the unlocked door and wandered out. She then got grabbed by a passing abdcutor or wandered to the sea. Again this sounds plausible to me. But this scenario has been slammed by the McCanns and Kate even called it an insult to her intelligence on the Late Late Show.


Another scenario is someone coming in through the front door. But I am pretty sure that this was discounted by the police as the door was not forced or tampered with in any way, and I think there was mention of the electronic lock only showing it was opened once, which would be around the time of Gerry's trip to the toilet/check.


So forensic checks say that the front door and the window/shutter routes are ruled out due to what the police did, and more importantly could not, find.


The unlocked door scenario is dismissed out of hand by the McCanns as is the idea the child got out of bed herself, which is a bit funny as Gerry claims on his visit he say a door ajar in the apartment that he did not bother to check on as he thought Madeline did it, yet Kate claims the child getting out of bed theory could not happen. Also we have a father in Gerry saying he saw an open door where his children were sleeping but he did not bother to check why it was open?

So if the police say two routes were not used based on forensic checks, and the McCanns say the unlocked door is not a plausible opition in their view, then how the hell did a child get out?


I think it brings us to a major problem with the case. The McCanns have put forward too many of their guesses and got them presented as facts through the media.

The McCanns, if innocent, can have no real idea what happened in that room, and for them to claim otherwise and for themn to discount other scenarios is arrogant and counterproductive in terms of the investigtion.

Kess73

Happyman42 wrote: »

Who would be less likely to leave evidence behind them.....a scheming, predatory child kidnapper who may have done it before or parents and a group of their friends (with no criminal record or no history of child neglect) who suddenly found themselves with a dead child on their hands?

the only conclusive evidence is that they were irresponsible. Which isn't a hanging offence yet or the gallowsmen/women would be very busy.

The fact that Gerry's fingerprints are on none of the things he claims to have touched and used is a bit odd though.

It could simply mean he lied about checking the shutter as soon as Kate said the kid was missing, but why bother to lie about that in the first place? All the lies do is make it harder for any police force to check things, and makes the McCanns look worse and like they had something to hide, even if they had nothing to hide in relation to the kid being taken.