Gerry and Kate Mcann promoting Book on Late Late next week

common sense brigade

My feeling has always been that one of the Tapas group ( David Payne has been mentioned as an odd character) killed Madeline. The people at that table were all aware that the children were alone for periods of time. In cases of child abduction and murder its most likely always someone known to the families . Someone going to the bathroom could easily slip away for ten minutes unnoticed. Perhaps they had been there the nights before when Madeline had woke crying. Knowing that it was the last night of the holiday and their last chance for whatever their sick and twisted ends where. All of the Tapas group rooms should have been locked down and clothes should have been taken away by forensics. Where they? How thorough was the investigation in the early stages. The Booth of the Mcanns rental car should have been checked on the night also. Hopefully Scotland Yard will get to the bottom of this once and for all..

iamwhoiam

Each individual piece of evidence is not really huge on its own .But when they are all gathered in one folder the doubt creeps in and it becomes very questionable
A Mum whos child is gone from her bed does not scream out instinctively "We let her down " "They've taken her " She scream " find my baby " or something on that line ,
A Dad whos little girl is gone from her bed does not instinctively check if the shutter can be open he is in the pool searching, under bushes searching , down at the beach searching .

A group of people who's best friends little girl is missing from her bed do not make notes in a note pad and get " timelines right " .They do not instinctively hang around they are searching in the lay bays , in the car park , in the pools of neighbouring apartments .
In my opinion a mother does not leave two babies in an apartment where her daughter is missing from and run over to the bar . She would instinctively have lifed the twins out of that cot and grabbed them so tight in sheer terror .

In my opinion they were all covering something , their first reactions are all very suspect and odd . One odd thing does not make a case , two are a little suspect , add a few four , five , eight odd reactions and police will be alerted .
You come to learn your trade well and in mine if a story of a childs injury does not sound right or sit right it makes you alert and you see it straight away that little niggles just dont sit right .

Now bring in all those very damning statements from people who do not know each other and bring in alerting the news that night , visiting the Pope within weeks and many many many more oddities .The case is riddled with them and you get the doubters , the sceptics the non believers
And such is this case and so you have those who simply are not convinced at all about this case .I am one of them .

common sense brigade

In my opinion a mother does not leave two babies in an apartment where her daughter is missing from and run over to the bar . She would instinctively have lifed the twins out of that cot and grabbed them so tight in sheer terror .

I agree 100% and it has always played on my mind. Kate Mcann ran out of the apartment and left the twins alone to alert the others. But she had no way of knowing if the perpretator was still in the apartment hiding or lurking nearby. No mother would have left the twins. Every instinct would have been to pick the twins up. But then any normal mother would never have left 3 young kids alone to go drinking and eating for night after night anyway...

goat2

Silver Moon wrote: »

You are missing the point. There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that anyone 'took' Madeleine McCann.

there is no evidence also to say that the mccannes harmed her either, and i am in full beleif that they did not cause the disappearance of their precious child

goat2

common sense brigade wrote: »

My feeling has always been that one of the Tapas group ( David Payne has been mentioned as an odd character) killed Madeline. The people at that table were all aware that the children were alone for periods of time. In cases of child abduction and murder its most likely always someone known to the families . Someone going to the bathroom could easily slip away for ten minutes unnoticed. Perhaps they had been there the nights before when Madeline had woke crying. Knowing that it was the last night of the holiday and their last chance for whatever their sick and twisted ends where. All of the Tapas group rooms should have been locked down and clothes should have been taken away by forensics. Where they? How thorough was the investigation in the early stages. The Booth of the Mcanns rental car should have been checked on the night also. Hopefully Scotland Yard will get to the bottom of this once and for all..

it had to be someone who knew the parents were not in, had all the workers at that place been screened

common sense brigade

it had to be someone who knew the parents were not in, had all the workers at that place been screened

Most likely yes. But that also incudes the Tapas 9. No one knew the movements better than the people sat at the table. These things are often the closest person to you. the one you least expect.

Mistyeyes321

Silver Moon wrote: »

as far as I am aware - and I have followed this case quite closely - the Gaspar statement has only ever been mentioned once in the mainstream media (a very passing reference in an article in the Times some while back).

maybe it's something, maybe it's nothing - but quite clearly the McCanns and the Paynes DO NOT want people to know these statements exist.

Why wouldn't the Press have Published this? Im really confused by this! If this is out there already wouldn't this make it less Likely for any of the Press to be Sued? That is if the Rumour's are True regarding Injuction's etc?!
Also don't the Press have a Responsibility to inform the Public of all information? Not just selective Tit Bit's?! These Statement's are hardly idle gossip IMHO! I'm Astounded by these Statement's no wonder the MCS & Co Don't want them making Public knowledge! Why would these people make them up? What Possible Motive could they have for doing so?! I do have to Balance this too by adding if this Mrs Gasper knew this stuff why wasn't she & her Children a Million Miles away from these people?!

Mistyeyes321

common sense brigade wrote: »

My feeling has always been that one of the Tapas group ( David Payne has been mentioned as an odd character) killed Madeline. The people at that table were all aware that the children were alone for periods of time. In cases of child abduction and murder its most likely always someone known to the families . Someone going to the bathroom could easily slip away for ten minutes unnoticed. Perhaps they had been there the nights before when Madeline had woke crying. Knowing that it was the last night of the holiday and their last chance for whatever their sick and twisted ends where. All of the Tapas group rooms should have been locked down and clothes should have been taken away by forensics. Where they? How thorough was the investigation in the early stages. The Booth of the Mcanns rental car should have been checked on the night also. Hopefully Scotland Yard will get to the bottom of this once and for all..

I hope they do this Child need's to be found oneway or another!
I don't think the MCS hurt Maddie tbh I think they are Responsible for leaving her & the other two Children alone night after night for their own ends...I just can't see them Murdering her though...One thing keep's Puzzling me is..When MRS M found Maddie had disappeared. Why did she run out of the Apartment? Wouldn't it have made more Sence to just Scream from the Balcony to Alert People?! After all the other's we're only 150 Yard's away surely they would have Heard her?!

AudreyHepburn

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Each individual piece of evidence is not really huge on its own .But when they are all gathered in one folder the doubt creeps in and it becomes very questionable
A Mum whos child is gone from her bed does not scream out instinctively "We let her down " "They've taken her " She scream " find my baby " or something on that line ,
A Dad whos little girl is gone from her bed does not instinctively check if the shutter can be open he is in the pool searching, under bushes searching , down at the beach searching .

A group of people who's best friends little girl is missing from her bed do not make notes in a note pad and get " timelines right " .They do not instinctively hang around they are searching in the lay bays , in the car park , in the pools of neighbouring apartments .
In my opinion a mother does not leave two babies in an apartment where her daughter is missing from and run over to the bar . She would instinctively have lifed the twins out of that cot and grabbed them so tight in sheer terror .

In my opinion they were all covering something , their first reactions are all very suspect and odd . One odd thing does not make a case , two are a little suspect , add a few four , five , eight odd reactions and police will be alerted .
You come to learn your trade well and in mine if a story of a childs injury does not sound right or sit right it makes you alert and you see it straight away that little niggles just dont sit right .

Now bring in all those very damning statements from people who do not know each other and bring in alerting the news that night , visiting the Pope within weeks and many many many more oddities .The case is riddled with them and you get the doubters , the sceptics the non believers
And such is this case and so you have those who simply are not convinced at all about this case .I am one of them .

Unless you have been in this situation you cannot possibly know how a person might react.

Happyman42

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Unless you have been in this situation you cannot possibly know how a person might react.

Absolutely spot on....the speculation is getting ridiculous...everybody reacts differently. My son broke his arm in a fall in our kitchen. When I saw him coming towards me with the arm at a mad angle, I had such an adrenalin surge that I lifted the phone to ring for a doctor and actually called my sister. When in shock you don't behave like a character in a film.

People making statements is all very well but until they are cross examined they have very little worth. And, be honest here, would you like your life judged in this way? It's very easy to paint a 'particular' picture after the event.

common sense brigade

No reasonable parent would leave children age 2 and 3 alone in hotel apartment and go across the way for drinking and food. Madeline had woken up the night before crying and asked her parents why no one came. How sad is that? and still Kate McCann put her lippy on and went off out the next evening . not a care in the world. The shocking part is 9 adults all professional people did this . Played Russian Roulette with their children. If a working class mother from a housing estate had did this you can bet social services would have removed her other children and the public would have bayed for blood. In cases of child abduction the perpertrator is most likely either the parents or known to the parents. I think it was one of the Tapas 9 my opinion. Kate and Gerry Mcannn would actually be delighted to see we are discussing this here today. That is exactly what they want, publicity and to keep Madelines alive.

sam34

Mistyeyes, I have to ask why do you capitalise random words in your posts? It's very distracting and makes them hard to read.

mikemac

I don't realy have a lot to add here

But if you're interested and have an inquisitive mind, well maybe go look at some youtube documentaries on Jon Benet Ramsey.
I've always taken a big interest in this

Not quite the same as the McCanns but there are similarities too.

It'll never be solved in my opinion. And there are so many different opinions. You can listen to one expert and be convinced the parents covered it up and listen to someone else and be certain it was an intruder.
For me, I'm certain it was an intruder and the parents were unfairly smeared by the gutter media.

The case was high profile and brought out the nut cases such as one man confessing and he had nothing to do with it. Mentally ill.

Bit offtopic, just thought it might be interesting

azvor

There is no doubt in my mind that the mother(Dr. McCann) did, in fact, cause the death of little Maddie through the mis-use of a Drug application that night to keep them asleep ubntil they had finished their Tapas dinner with "friends"... and thereafter, had to cover up the fact.....Cadaver Dogs are Never wrong and they need to explain this fact that there were hits in the apartment AND the car boot........You only have to look look at the mothers face to know there is a deeeeep murderous Guilt lying within.... :mad:

Fittle

I have always been on the fence about the McCanns involvement in their daughters murder.

But if you were in a group of 7/10 people - could you HONESTLY keep this to yourself in some sort of pact???

There's no way all of those guests at that table that night know who killed/abducted that child and are keeping it to themselves....in my opinion.

azvor

YES, I quite agree with your statements...but my theory is as follows....

Dr. McCann gave her children a small "sedative" that night to ensure their "sleep" and lolkihood of waking and being bothersome, before going out and leaving them all alone in the apartment...

She returns later to "check" up on them and discovers Maddie has died...

She's a smart intelligent woman, so she doesn't panic...she places little Maddie in the back of the family car and THEN goes through the exercise of all the "usual" expected reactions and behaviour...

She later informs her husband, a well-known & respected surgeon, and for the sake of their professional medical & personal reputations and futures, decide that a cover-up is the best way forward...(What sort of reputation would two doctors who mis-administered drugs to their child endure)..

They convey Maddies remains to some, as yet, undiscovered location, either themselves or a close family member, perhaps.... and the rest is history.....

Fittle

azvor wrote: »

Y

She returns later to "check" up on them and discovers Maddie has died...

She's a smart intelligent woman, so she doesn't panic...

No matter how smart or intelligent she is, there's NO WAY any mother would not panic in that situation. No way on this earth.

Fittle

iamwhoiam wrote: »

A Mum whos child is gone from her bed does not scream out instinctively "We let her down " "They've taken her " She scream " find my baby " or something on that line ,
A Dad whos little girl is gone from her bed does not instinctively check if the shutter can be open he is in the pool searching, under bushes searching , down at the beach searching .

We don't know that.

My sisters son was in his carseat when he was about 4 months old. She had just brought him in and had placed him on the kitchen floor (still in the seat). She turned on a lightswitch and it exploded, setting fire to the wall in that area of the kitchen - she ran out of the house screaming that her house was on fire and only when she was out in the garden, did she realise she'd left the baby inside. He was alright thankfully, and no harm came of him.
My nephew caught his hand in a steel door when he was 4 ( I was about 20) and I was minding him. There was blood and howls and screams from him....I ran like a madwoman down the road, away from his screams. I ran straight back of course - but shock affects everyone in different ways and until we are in the situation, it's impossible to say how we'd react.....

AudreyHepburn

Just some thoughts on the scent of a cadaver in the apartment;

1.) I have read in a few places that a human cadaver won't begin to emit an odour until between 36 and 48 hours after death (the time varied a little between those two). Now if Madeleine did die in the apartment you would assume that whoever was responsible would remove the body almost immediately. They certainly would not leave a dead body lying there for the better part of two days. So thus Madeleine's body would have been gone from the apartment long before it started to give out an odour.

2.)So that begs the question of what the dogs smelt. I had the thought that maybe there was something in the apartment mimicing the smell of a cadaver; rotting food in a bin perhaps or some small animal that died in the apartment. I remember in primary school about 12 years ago a shrew died in one of the presses during a particularly hot week and the smell was atrocious. Perhaps that was what the dogs picked up?

Just some things that occurred to me as I was reading over the thread.

ISDW

azvor wrote: »

YES, I quite agree with your statements...but my theory is as follows....

Dr. McCann gave her children a small "sedative" that night to ensure their "sleep" and lolkihood of waking and being bothersome, before going out and leaving them all alone in the apartment...

She returns later to "check" up on them and discovers Maddie has died...

She's a smart intelligent woman, so she doesn't panic...she places little Maddie in the back of the family car and THEN goes through the exercise of all the "usual" expected reactions and behaviour...

She later informs her husband, a well-known & respected surgeon, and for the sake of their professional medical & personal reputations and futures, decide that a cover-up is the best way forward...(What sort of reputation would two doctors who mis-administered drugs to their child endure)..

They convey Maddies remains to some, as yet, undiscovered location, either themselves or a close family member, perhaps.... and the rest is history.....

Plausible, but I don't know if they had a hire car at the time. If they did, I'm sure the police would have the cadaver dogs go over that one as well, and it was only in the car that they hired 3 weeks after her disappearance that the cadaver dogs reacted I believe.

Happyman42

What the hell was in the Tapas that turned them all (perfectly normal, if irresponsible parents, with no records of neglect or abuse, before or since.) into conspiring cold blooded killers?

Anyone of ye want to have a go at that one?:rolleyes:

hopefullyigita

The book in the restuarent were they said that people were able to read could be crucial in this story imo.. People could have seen that as said and wrote down in this book "kids are left in the apartment on their own"

Kess73

Fittle wrote: »

No matter how smart or intelligent she is, there's NO WAY any mother would not panic in that situation. No way on this earth.

No. She would explain to her husband, the father of the child, that the shutter was used in abducting their child. That father would then stay so calm that he would go and test the shutters to see if they could be opened from the outside as the first thing he does rather than start looking for his missing daughter.


That's what he said he did on the late late show.


You get told your 3 year old daughter is missing, and you decide to see if the shutter was able to be opened from the outside rather than start looking for your child?

I would have thought that looking for the child would be the first thing on his mind, and not some story about shutters. A story that has been proven to be untrue by forensic tests on those shutters, yet Gerry McCann keeps saying that he opened and shut the shutters from the outside, yet the police were only able to find one set of fingerprints in total on the shutters and showed that it could not be opened from the outside in the manner Gerry claims he did.

azvor

No one is saying that they were "cold-blooded conspiring killers"....It was an accident, pure and simple....

However, the first reaction ALWAYS... is self-preservation...

Two respected British doctors on holidays with their children and this happens.....The first thing that came to mind was "How the Hell am I going to explain the use of sedatives on our children resulting in the death of our eldest"......That was the over-riding sentiment in this matter.....

Their lives and careers would have been finished right there and then if it was not covered up....and as to who possibly colluded with them in the cover-up...well...that's anyone's guess...

Every time I see the mother on TV, I JUST KNOW she is concealing "something" by her demeanour and especially in her eyes.....

"The Eyes are the Window to the Soul".....

Kess73

Happyman42 wrote: »

What the hell was in the Tapas that turned them all (perfectly normal, if irresponsible parents, with no records of neglect or abuse, before or since.) into conspiring cold blooded killers?

Anyone of ye want to have a go at that one?:rolleyes:

Who suggested that every person at the table killed the child?


It is possible the parents know what happened to their child and covered it up, and all the rest are just giving statements that they think will best help their two friends as the rest may believe the child was taken.


It is also very possible the parents may not know what happened to their child, but someone in their group may know, and we still get the list of statements trying to help their friends.

Another possibility is that the parents may know nothing about what happened to their child, the friends know nothing and just made statements to help friends, and the child was taken by an abductor.


There are not many other variations that can come into play.

Nobody here can say exactly what happened to the child. We can guess based on what we know to date. Most people will lean one way or the other but still have an open enough mind to accept that there is enough doubt about things for their opinion to be wrong.

A few people, some pro McCann and some anti McCann for lack of better terms, are totally set in their view on what the "know" happened, and try to mock anyone who goes against what they say is fact.

Happyman42

Kess73 wrote: »

Who suggested that every person at the table killed the child?


It is possible the parents know what happened to their child and covered it up, and all the rest are just giving statements that they think will best help their two friends as the rest may believe the child was taken.


It is also very possible the parents may not know what happened to their child, but someone in their group may know, and we still get the list of statements trying to help their friends.

Another possibility is that the parents may know nothing about what happened to their child, the friends know nothing and just made statements to help friends, and the child was taken by an abductor.


There are not many other variations that can come into play.

Nobody here can say exactly what happened to the child. We can guess based on what we know to date. Most people will lean one way or the other but still have an open enough mind to accept that there is enough doubt about things for their opinion to be wrong.

A few people, some pro McCann and some anti McCann for lack of better terms, are totally set in their view on what the "know" happened, and try to mock anyone who goes against what they say is fact.

There is a reason why anyone who helps a crime is called an 'accessory' and a reason why that is a crime of itself. If these people are hiding or lying then that is what they are, 'accessories'.
Now, people say that at best, the McCann's covered up accidental death to save their lives and careers?
Is it credible that somebody not involved would 'lie' and risk prison and their own careers? I just can't buy that one.
I am not set in my view...but the pointlessness of some of the Miss Marples style speculation is very annoying and you can't do it in a court for obvious reasons.

Fittle

azvor wrote: »

I JUST KNOW she is concealing "something" by her demeanour and especially in her eyes.....

"The Eyes are the Window to the Soul".....

And just because you write it in block capitals, and underlined and bold does not mean it is fact.

pammy 2

i could not agree more dozydora with what you have said,they dont deserve to be on here you make my blood boil you really do,god knows madeliene,s parents can never forgive each other but we should be helping them get madeliene back,you could all do with a job with the so called portu police,shame on you all

Fittle

Happyman42 wrote: »

There is a reason why anyone who helps a crime is called an 'accessory' and a reason why that is a crime of itself. If these people are hiding or lying then that is what they are, 'accessories'.
Now, people say that at best, the McCann's covered up accidental death to save their lives and careers?
Is it credible that somebody not involved would 'lie' and risk prison and their own careers? I just can't buy that one.
I am not set in my view...but the pointlessness of some of the Miss Marples style speculation is very annoying and you can't do it in a court for obvious reasons.

I have to agree with you. If I thought my friends had killed their child, there's not a hope in hell I'd cover for them.

I'm also not set on my view, but the conspiracy theories go completely OTT in my opinion - if you find your child dead in her bed, and you are also caring for two other toddlers, you aren't calm and collected enough to plot & plan a way to cover up.
None of us know the 'type' of person Kate was before she because public enemy number one.

ISDW

azvor wrote: »

No one is saying that they were "cold-blooded conspiring killers"....It was an accident, pure and simple....

However, the first reaction ALWAYS... is self-preservation...

Two respected British doctors on holidays with their children and this happens.....The first thing that came to mind was "How the Hell am I going to explain the use of sedatives on our children resulting in the death of our eldest"......That was the over-riding sentiment in this matter.....

Their lives and careers would have been finished right there and then if it was not covered up....and as to who possibly colluded with them in the cover-up...well...that's anyone's guess...

Every time I see the mother on TV, I JUST KNOW she is concealing "something" by her demeanour and especially in her eyes.....

"The Eyes are the Window to the Soul".....

Gosh, you know an awful lot about it, you seem to be stating facts here, not opinions.

As you know so much, can you tell me if they had a hire car when Madeleine disappeared?