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Gerry and Kate Mcann promoting Book on Late Late next week

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  • Registered Users Posts: 44,080 ✭✭✭✭Micky Dolenz


    AudreyHepburn and TheZohan, stop baiting each other.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    AudreyHepburn and TheZohan, stop baiting each other.

    Apologies :o.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,700 ✭✭✭Mountainsandh


    Fair enough NTMK, that's possible. My own judgement is biased because OH had experience of corruption and incompetence of the Portugese police force (for a much less serious matter thankfully), and I think there are a lot of signs that investigations were not conducted properly in the McCanns case, and that some individuals (not saying the entire PJ is corrupted, I'm sure a lot are competent and honest) simply wanted the case quickly closed and to avoid exposing how badly things had been handled.

    So imho, if all statements and investigations had been properly conducted from day 1, the parents after being duly investigated would likely have been ruled out (despite the leaving the kids alone bit we all agree was wrong), and other leads would possibly have been discovered and followed. Because some crucial evidence might have been grossly missed or compromised in the first few hours after she went missing, it snowballed into a tragic saga. That's just my opinion, not a fact.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,575 ✭✭✭NTMK


    Fair enough NTMK, that's possible. My own judgement is biased because OH had experience of corruption and incompetence of the Portugese police force (for a much less serious matter thankfully), and I think there are a lot of signs that investigations were not conducted properly in the McCanns case, and that some individuals (not saying the entire PJ is corrupted, I'm sure a lot are competent and honest) simply wanted the case quickly closed and to avoid exposing how badly things had been handled.

    So imho, if all statements and investigations had been properly conducted from day 1, the parents after being duly investigated would likely have been ruled out (despite the leaving the kids alone bit we all agree was wrong), and other leads would possibly have been discovered and followed. Because some crucial evidence might have been grossly missed or compromised in the first few hours after she went missing, it snowballed into a tragic saga. That's just my opinion, not a fact.

    Sadly true, They did botch the investigation I just think the evidence is too scarce only thing that's really there is the dogs evidence, which is circumstantial and the behaviour of the mccanns (changing witness stories, lies(access through shutters),Saying they'd do polygraphs then refuse, washing of Madeline's stuff, lack of any evidence of an abductor and the erratic behaviour) makes me suspicious of them and if they're innocent they are quite possibly the stupidest people alive


  • Registered Users Posts: 186 ✭✭Mistyeyes321


    Fair enough NTMK, that's possible. My own judgement is biased because OH had experience of corruption and incompetence of the Portugese police force (for a much less serious matter thankfully), and I think there are a lot of signs that investigations were not conducted properly in the McCanns case, and that some individuals (not saying the entire PJ is corrupted, I'm sure a lot are competent and honest) simply wanted the case quickly closed and to avoid exposing how badly things had been handled.

    So imho, if all statements and investigations had been properly conducted from day 1, the parents after being duly investigated would likely have been ruled out (despite the leaving the kids alone bit we all agree was wrong), and other leads would possibly have been discovered and followed. Because some crucial evidence might have been grossly missed or compromised in the first few hours after she went missing, it snowballed into a tragic saga. That's just my opinion, not a fact.
    I honestly think there is as many mistakes that have been made by PJ & the MCS ...I think now it's become a war of who is right & wrong! Not let's get our heads together & find this Child because she is the Priority here or should be...I don't understand why PJ would go out of there way to try & make the MCS Guilty I honestly think they did this all by themselves! At the start the MCS we're very happy with the PJ it can be read in statements! Kate mc states how the PJ even let the Mcs themselves have imput...So what changed? & why?! Was it when the British goverment got involved ie Gordon Brown? & Why was he involved?...Would all people holidaying abroad have access to these people at the touch of a Phone including early hours of the morning? I don't think they would tbh! So be honest here it shouldn't be one rule for one & not the other....To be fair the portugues people took time off work to go in search of this Child & fair play to them for that...Yet the MCS never went once why??! I'm not saying the MCS hurt maddie apart from the Neglet aspect! I do think however that whoever get's in the way of these Pair are ridiculed! After reading the Statement's of Racheal yesterday it's quite obvious to me anyone just how Powerfull their friends are...No wonder the Press won't say anything negative!!


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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,700 ✭✭✭Mountainsandh


    But you see from my point of view it falls into place : of course they wouldn't do the polygraph, or answer questions yet again, if/as they thought they were being framed. In their situation I would do the same.

    Let's hope some day something, or Madeleine, is found.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,822 ✭✭✭sunflower27


    I honestly think there is as many mistakes that have been made by PJ & the MCS ...I think now it's become a war of who is right & wrong! Not let's get our heads together & find this Child because she is the Priority here or should be...I don't understand why PJ would go out of there way to try & make the MCS Guilty I honestly think they did this all by themselves! At the start the MCS we're very happy with the PJ it can be read in statements! Kate mc states how the PJ even let the Mcs themselves have imput...So what changed? & why?! Was it when the British goverment got involved ie Gordon Brown? & Why was he involved?...Would all people holidaying abroad have access to these people at the touch of a Phone including early hours of the morning? I don't think they would tbh! So be honest here it shouldn't be one rule for one & not the other....To be fair the portugues people took time off work to go in search of this Child & fair play to them for that...Yet the MCS never went once why??! I'm not saying the MCS hurt maddie apart from the Neglet aspect! I do think however that whoever get's in the way of these Pair are ridiculed! After reading the Statement's of Racheal yesterday it's quite obvious to me anyone just how Powerfull their friends are...No wonder the Press won't say anything negative!!

    I'm fairly certain it changed when the McCann's became suspects and realised that the PJ were not going to take their accounts of what they and their friends said as Gospel.


  • Registered Users Posts: 186 ✭✭Mistyeyes321


    But you see from my point of view it falls into place : of course they wouldn't do the polygraph, or answer questions yet again, if/as they thought they were being framed. In their situation I would do the same.

    Let's hope some day something, or Madeleine, is found.
    Maybe i'm missing something here?!
    I don't understand why they would think they we're being Framed?! Why did they think this?, Like I said in my previous post the MCS we're very happy with the PJ so what changed?...Or did the mcs just want everything their way??!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,700 ✭✭✭Mountainsandh


    MistyEyes123 I don't believe that they were ever really happy with the PJ, but I do know they praised and thanked them at the start because... of course, when you are depending on them to find your missing child, you are going to cooperate and say : "yes fine, yes fine" just so they keep going.

    That reminds me a lot of the Irish way in general, saying "yep, great, ok, fine", when in fact you're not happy, but just to keep things going. It finally got to a point where they couldn't say "fine" anymore.

    edit : it's very evident in K McCann's book, where from the very first hours after the disappearance she keeps saying : "where are the police where are the police", and then describes the 2 officers turning up as reminding her of Twiddle dee dee and Twiddle Dee Dum. From the start she implies that she did not trust things were done the right way.


  • Registered Users Posts: 186 ✭✭Mistyeyes321


    I'm fairly certain it changed when the McCann's became suspects and realised that the PJ were not going to take their accounts of what they and their friends said as Gospel.
    Ok well if I myself was in the PJ place I would be looking to the MCS or their Friends too, Isn't that what the standard procdure is?!


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  • Registered Users Posts: 186 ✭✭Mistyeyes321


    MistyEyes123 I don't believe that they were ever really happy with the PJ, but I do know they praised and thanked them at the start because... of course, when you are depending on them to find your missing child, you are going to cooperate and say : "yes fine, yes fine" just so they keep going.

    That reminds me a lot of the Irish way in general, saying "yep, great, ok, fine", when in fact you're not happy, but just to keep things going. It finally got to a point where they couldn't say "fine" anymore.
    Maybe Maybe not...:)


  • Registered Users Posts: 94 ✭✭AlanBr


    The jokes I hear are unfortunately funny but so cruel :( I am fearful of a ban so I won't post one :)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,822 ✭✭✭sunflower27


    MistyEyes123 I don't believe that they were ever really happy with the PJ, but I do know they praised and thanked them at the start because... of course, when you are depending on them to find your missing child, you are going to cooperate and say : "yes fine, yes fine" just so they keep going.

    That reminds me a lot of the Irish way in general, saying "yep, great, ok, fine", when in fact you're not happy, but just to keep things going. It finally got to a point where they couldn't say "fine" anymore.

    edit : it's very evident in K McCann's book, where from the very first hours after the disappearance she keeps saying : "where are the police where are the police", and then describes the 2 officers turning up as reminding her of Twiddle dee dee and Twiddle Dee Dum. From the start she implies that she did not trust things were done the right way.

    Christ, the arrogance. She leaves her children ALONE in a room that is unlocked and then has the audacity to give out about police that did not (in her opinion) arrive quick enough to the scene.

    Fcucking unbelievable.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,778 ✭✭✭up for anything


    NTMK wrote: »
    if they're innocent they are quite possibly the stupidest people alive


    You've said it. On the little I know of police procedure if I had been them I would have kept the crime scene as clean as possible once I'd gone through the apartment in search of my child. Even distressed as I'd imagine I'd be I wouldn't allow a single person to enter the bloody place, let alone a gaggle of my friends, until the equivalent of CSI there in Portugal had been and done their stuff. If I had the power to alert press and obtain UK government help in whatever form, you could be damn sure that I'd have been looking for a UK team to fly out and help the Portuguese police. Only mega-stupid people would allow other people in and out of a place that could be one of their only leads to finding their daughter. Why couldn't they have gathered in one of the other apartments?


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,700 ✭✭✭Mountainsandh


    Fine, she might be the most arrogant, ignorant woman in your opinion, does it excuse the police for not turning up quick then ? not protecting the scene ? not taking statements immediately ? not conducting forensic investigations immediately ? not closing the borders ? etc...

    You may think she is a despicable character, but it does not excuse inadequate response from the PJ, does it ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 186 ✭✭Mistyeyes321


    Christ, the arrogance. She leaves her children ALONE in a room that is unlocked and then has the audacity to give out about police that did not (in her opinion) arrive quick enough to the scene.

    Fcucking unbelievable.
    Have to agree with this,
    So before anything was said these Police officer's we're already being judged...Not very good isit?! I'm sure I read the Police was there within an Hour...So where all these Hours waiting come from I don't know apart from Gerry's sister saying they waited hours..She was in the uk so she was only repeating what she had been told....:)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11,582 ✭✭✭✭TheZohanS


    Fine, she might be the most arrogant, ignorant woman in your opinion, does it excuse the police for not turning up quick then ? not protecting the scene ? not taking statements immediately ? not conducting forensic investigations immediately ? not closing the borders ? etc...

    You may think she is a despicable character, but it does not excuse inadequate response from the PJ, does it ?

    Do you have a source for the "inadequate response", other than what Kate McCann has written in her own book?

    I have trouble believing someone who was a suspect in the disappearance of her own daughter.


  • Registered Users Posts: 425 ✭✭Lash_Alert


    Bye bye ^^^^^^^


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,560 ✭✭✭✭Kess73


    Fine, she might be the most arrogant, ignorant woman in your opinion, does it excuse the police for not turning up quick then ? not protecting the scene ? not taking statements immediately ? not conducting forensic investigations immediately ? not closing the borders ? etc...

    You may think she is a despicable character, but it does not excuse inadequate response from the PJ, does it ?



    Not turning up quickly? It is on record that the police turned up ten minutes after the call was actually made. Even Gerry McCann has gone on record saying this.

    Not closing borders? Again it is on record that all Portugese and Spanish airports, and ports were contacted within 30 minutes of the police arriving and all police station along the Portugese/Spanish borders were informed in the same timeframe. Both Spanish and Portugese authorities have confoirmed this action. Care to tell me how exactly the could close down the entire border in 30 minutes?

    Not protecting the scene? You mean the scene that had literally dozens of people already on it when the police arrived, the same people the police moved upon arrival and got into groups to question as to what was going on?


    Not taking statements immediately? Funny that, I thought one of the complaints against the police was the fact that they tried to ask questions and take statements shortly after arriving.



    All the things you claim are not so, it is all on official record and unless the Spanish authorities are lying as well as the Portugese, I think I will trust the records on this one.


  • Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Fine, she might be the most arrogant, ignorant woman in your opinion, does it excuse the police for not turning up quick then ? not protecting the scene ? not taking statements immediately ? not conducting forensic investigations immediately ? not closing the borders ? etc...

    You may think she is a despicable character, but it does not excuse inadequate response from the PJ, does it ?

    The staff didn't ring the police straight away, not the police fault.

    When they did ring, they turned up quickly enough. It was the local police. I suspect the same would happen here, local Guard first. When it was obvious the girl just hadn't just wandered of, the PJ were informed and turned up quickly enough.

    The inspector says airports and ports were notified quickly.

    She seems to be expecting perfect standards of the police, shame she wasn't so critical of her and Gerry's parenting skills.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,700 ✭✭✭Mountainsandh


    Just to give you an idea of the book, which you are unlikely to believe if you do not believe Kate McCann to start with :

    " at 10.35 the police had still not arrived... it was not until 11.10pm that two policemen arrived from the nearest town, Lagos, about 5 miles away. To me they seemed bewildered and out of their depth, and I couldn't shake the images of Tweedledeedum and Tweedlededee out of my head. I realize how unfair this might sound, but with communication hampered by the language barrier and precious time passing, their presence did not fill me with confidence at all."

    She goes on to explain that they didn't realize these police officers were like the French Gendarmes, local guards, generally in charge of traffic matters.

    "I'm pretty sure that initially the GNR officers assumed Madeleine had simply wandered off by herself. By midnight, however, evidently they were concerned enough to inform the PJ.... took an hour to arrive"

    So the PJ arrived around 1 am.

    She mentions that in the meantime, Gerry tried to keep people out of the room. When the young PJ officer tried to take their fingerprints he must have messed it up, because they had to redo it the next day.

    Phew, and that's all I'm typing for the night :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,312 ✭✭✭AskMyChocolate


    AlanBr wrote: »
    A new car being launched in Portugal, with space in the boot for a child. It's called the Renault McCann....no offense intended couldn't help myself!

    Try


  • Registered Users Posts: 94 ✭✭AlanBr


    Try

    Aw now i feel bad :(


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,312 ✭✭✭AskMyChocolate


    Just to give you an idea of the book, which you are unlikely to believe if you do not believe Kate McCann to start with :

    " at 10.35 the police had still not arrived... it was not until 11.10pm that two policemen arrived from the nearest town, Lagos, about 5 miles away. To me they seemed bewildered and out of their depth, and I couldn't shake the images of Tweedledeedum and Tweedlededee out of my head. I realize how unfair this might sound, but with communication hampered by the language barrier and precious time passing, their presence did not fill me with confidence at all."

    She goes on to explain that they didn't realize these police officers were like the French Gendarmes, local guards, generally in charge of traffic matters.

    "I'm pretty sure that initially the GNR officers assumed Madeleine had simply wandered off by herself. By midnight, however, evidently they were concerned enough to inform the PJ.... took an hour to arrive"

    So the PJ arrived around 1 am.

    She mentions that in the meantime, Gerry tried to keep people out of the room. When the young PJ officer tried to take their fingerprints he must have messed it up, because they had to redo it the next day.

    Phew, and that's all I'm typing for the night :)

    Do you not think it's a bit rich for Kate McCann to be giving out about the police when she and her husband and her friends have done everything in their power from the moment of the child's disappearance to hamper the investigation and ensure that it wouldn't come to a successful conclusion?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,312 ✭✭✭AskMyChocolate


    AlanBr wrote: »
    Aw now i feel bad :(

    Aah don't. I've heard a few good ones myself and I have laughed, it's just I'm not sure this thread is the right place to tell these jokes. It's an emotional issue and a lot of people in this thread are very concerned/invested as you can probably tell by the multiple posts.


  • Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Just to give you an idea of the book, which you are unlikely to believe if you do not believe Kate McCann to start with :

    " at 10.35 the police had still not arrived... it was not until 11.10pm that two policemen arrived from the nearest town, Lagos, about 5 miles away. To me they seemed bewildered and out of their depth, and I couldn't shake the images of Tweedledeedum and Tweedlededee out of my head. I realize how unfair this might sound, but with communication hampered by the language barrier and precious time passing, their presence did not fill me with confidence at all."

    She goes on to explain that they didn't realize these police officers were like the French Gendarmes, local guards, generally in charge of traffic matters.

    "I'm pretty sure that initially the GNR officers assumed Madeleine had simply wandered off by herself. By midnight, however, evidently they were concerned enough to inform the PJ.... took an hour to arrive"

    So the PJ arrived around 1 am.

    She mentions that in the meantime, Gerry tried to keep people out of the room. When the young PJ officer tried to take their fingerprints he must have messed it up, because they had to redo it the next day.

    Phew, and that's all I'm typing for the night :)

    If you report a missing child here you aren't going to get detectives out, you'll get the Guards from the nearest station. Perfectly reasonable and understandable.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,700 ✭✭✭Mountainsandh


    @askmychocolate : ah but again, how ? how did they hamper the investigation in the first few hours ? (asking your chocolate)

    Yes, they were like idiots in a panic, running around, being frantic and nonsensical, like anyone would be in that situation. That's not deliberately hampering anything. That's just being lost, un-savvy to what a police department might want or not in that situation.

    Again from the book you won't believe unless you are willing to give K McC a chance, I gather that it's not the police force's questions they resented, but other people whose credentials they just couldn't fathom in their panicky state.

    God, I should be a lawyer (NOT ! I hear you say ;)).


    Excuse me everyone, I'm now officially very silly, it's the tiredness and I need to go to bed, so I will now take my leave.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,531 ✭✭✭Little Acorn


    Just to give you an idea of the book, which you are unlikely to believe if you do not believe Kate McCann to start with :

    " at 10.35 the police had still not arrived... it was not until 11.10pm that two policemen arrived from the nearest town, Lagos, about 5 miles away. To me they seemed bewildered and out of their depth, and I couldn't shake the images of Tweedledeedum and Tweedlededee out of my head. I realize how unfair this might sound, but with communication hampered by the language barrier and precious time passing, their presence did not fill me with confidence at all."

    She goes on to explain that they didn't realize these police officers were like the French Gendarmes, local guards, generally in charge of traffic matters.

    "I'm pretty sure that initially the GNR officers assumed Madeleine had simply wandered off by herself. By midnight, however, evidently they were concerned enough to inform the PJ.... took an hour to arrive"

    So the PJ arrived around 1 am.

    She mentions that in the meantime, Gerry tried to keep people out of the room. When the young PJ officer tried to take their fingerprints he must have messed it up, because they had to redo it the next day.

    Phew, and that's all I'm typing for the night :)

    K, I've been trying to leave this thread alone until I see if Scotland Yard come up with any new findings that could be discussed, but Kate McCann saying that at 10:35pm the police had't arrived is misleading, because it makes it sound like that they had been waiting ages for them to arrive.
    Gerry McCann himself said on the late late show that the first call logged to the GNR police wasn't logged until 10:40pm so how the hell could they have have been there at 10:35pm?
    If you read page 109 and pg 110 of this thread myself and Kess already discussed the police timelines.
    I read Matthew Oldfield's statements, and he is the one who asked the hotel reception to ring the police.
    If you read over his statement it seems he suspects that the hotel reception did not ring when he first asked, as they believed Madeline had simply wandered off nearby somewhere.
    It was only when their management team arrived and he and Gerry went back a second time, that the police were definitely called.[in Matthew's opinion]
    The statements then say that the police arrived within 20 minutes, although Kess says that the GNR records show a travel time of just 12 minutes from when they received the call. 12 minutes or 20 is a fairly fast response time.

    I will have to read the various statements again, but I'm pretty sure that people say the police started clearing people out of the apartment as soon as they arrived.
    It wasn't really their fault if the place had been contaminated at that stage, they got there and started work as quick as they could.

    They had to clear the scene, and ask questions and get the full story of what had happened, do all this with the language barrier so translation had to be used, then after doing all this in only 50 minutes the Judicial Police were called. First call logged at 23:50 to the Judicial Police I believe.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,700 ✭✭✭maebee


    http://mccannexposure.wordpress.com/2010/01/13/kate-mccanns-near-confession/
    Insp. Paiva states that a distraught Kate McCann called him in the early hours of the morning in July 2007. During this call, Kate McCann confessed that Madeleine’s remains could be found upon a hilltop in Praia da Luz. The call was made at a time when Gerry McCann was out of the country. Kate stated at some point during the conversation that she had dreamt that Madeleine had been murdered.

    I can find no rational reason to doubt the words of Insp. Paiva.

    Thus, I believe that Kate was trying to lead the investigators to Madeleine’s remains. This likely occurred for one of the following two reasons, or quite possibly a mixture of the two: 1) Kate may have being suffering from a guilt complex, she needed her daughter found, she needed to relieve her guilt; 2) she believed the police were already drawn close to identifying what really happened to Madeleine. This undoubtedly would have placed Kate under immense strain, and the certainty of catastrophe following arrest would have all most certainly have been at the forefront of her mind - she was prepared to meet her demons face on.

    It is under such conditions that those harbouring guilty secrets, particularly women, are prepared to surrender. I believe Kate was placed in such a situation. With her narcissist husband out of the way Kate was extremely vulnerable, thus, she grasped the opportunity to bring her sweet Madeleine home and suffer the consequences.

    So, why is Madeleine’s corpse still to be found? It is quite possible that Kate lost her courage, fear took hold and thoughts of losing her remaining children sobered her up; thus, the true deposition site was not revealed. Or she just got lucky when the search failed to locate Madeleine’s remains. There is also the chance that Madeleine’s body had been moved without her knowledge. Strange thing is Kate has always held an attraction for a certain hilltop in Praia da Luz!

    Either way Kate McCann retains her weighty burden: one day she will have to relieve herself if she is to survive.

    Kate, it is not too late, you can end all this now…today – just pick up the phone


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    maebee wrote: »

    Yeh ....but maybe...just maybe, she did have a very vivid nightmare?


This discussion has been closed.
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