Scotland on verge of becoming an independant nation, how long before NI falls?

Predator_

Badgermonkey wrote: »

Self-discipline, try it sometime.

yer bro

mike65

steddyeddy wrote: »

How do london taxpayers feel about that?

Good question! Its been that way for so long I doubt they think about it, unless prompted to.

steddyeddy

mike65 wrote: »

Good question! Its been that way for so long I doubt they think about it, unless prompted to.

*runs off to send chain email to londoners* :P

m@cc@

gonedrinking wrote: »

Isn't it about time Northern Ireland got a referendum on independance?

You really don't have a clue about the politics of NI and why such a referendum would never pass.

dj jarvis

Donkey Oaty wrote: »

Or maybe they just want the SNP to run their non-Westminster affairs.

Opinion polls on independence are still not in the SNP's favour at the moment, but things could get interesting...

this is the most likely reason - but you wont have a vote for independence without them at the helm - the English establisment will fight this tooth and nail but not because they love Scotland , a myriad of better reasons will make them fight it

but as i heard today the worst thing DC could do is go north - make a speech and feck off back south - the SNP votes wont like that at all , it will look like they are being told what to do - and then they will tell the English where to go

KeithAFC

I think N.I is fine the way it is.

This election has told us nothing about Scotland. The SNP won't call for a referendum.

pljudge321

Pauleta wrote: »

Scotland would last about 5 minutes on their own. Its 3rd world enough as it is. If they were independent, they would be the Moldova of Western Europe.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_mhW436C1Y

Daniel S

KeithAFC wrote: »

I think N.I is fine the way it is.

This election has told us nothing about Scotland. The SNP won't call for a referendum.

Jaysus... just as I thought he was about to have an off day...


:rolleyes:

dj jarvis

KeithAFC wrote: »

I think N.I is fine the way it is.

This election has told us nothing about Scotland. The SNP won't call for a referendum.

sorry keith but they will and have said towards the end of 2012
it will go ahead - what the outcome will be i dont know - but the referendum is going ahead - he announced it today

KeithAFC

mtb_kng wrote: »

Jaysus... just as I thought he was about to have an off day...


:rolleyes:

Why?

dpe

dj jarvis wrote: »

this is the most likely reason - but you wont have a vote for independence without them at the helm - the English establisment will fight this tooth and nail but not because they love Scotland , a myriad of better reasons will make them fight it

but as i heard today the worst thing DC could do is go north - make a speech and feck off back south - the SNP votes wont like that at all , it will look like they are being told what to do - and then they will tell the English where to go

The "English establishment"? Who? The Royal Family? Irrelevant (especially as the SNP aren't advocating getting rid of the Queen as Head of State). The Tories? Dumping Scotland would keep the tories in power for ever. Try to understand, the English don't give a toss about Scotland.

It doesn't matter though, because the Scots aren't stupid enough to dumpt the Union. They get too much from it.

A Dub in Glasgo

mike65 wrote: »

Just as well Scotland isn't already independent, the Bank of Scotland/RBS fiacso would have buried them. They know that London tax payers are basicly keeping them afloat right now.

Dear Westminster: a divorce letter

I see the banks are Scottish again. That's nice. For years you've insisted on controlling all the pursestrings, and now the pursestrings are flapping around your ankles like snapped knicker elastic all of a sudden the empty banks are Scottish and a reason I could never look after myself. You're like a wean that breaks a toy then gives it back saying it was broken when you got it. Funny how you managed to play with the banks for years without noticing how broken they were

A Dub in Glasgo

dpe wrote: »

They get too much from it.

Too much? Any evidence to back that up?

dpe

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Too much? Any evidence to back that up?

Yes. The UK spends 59 billion a year on "devolved spending" for Scotland, Wales and NI. 80% of that money comes from England (and that's before the billion here or there on the Scottish Office etc.)

There was a really handy tool in the Guardian during the last budget (designed to show all of Government spending to work out what to cut) that shows the level of spending Scotland gets. Scotland couldn't support its level of public spending without England (Scottish GDP is approx 137bn).

A Dub in Glasgo

Where is your evidence for the 80%?

LondonIrish90

The fat goon Salmond really is taking the mick with it all now. "Its a matter of when and not if the Scots vote for independence" was his line from today. Have it now you big prick. Does he really think he's doing the English a favour by letting us associate ourselves with them for a few more years?

I really wish Cameron would stop being such a big girl and turn the argument upside down, and start telling the English voters the truth about how much they would benefit from "Scottish Independence". We don't need them to function as a country and we don't give a damn whether they are part of our country or not.

Grrrrrr.

A Dub in Glasgo

LondonIrish90 wrote: »

The fat goon Salmond really is taking the mick with it all now. "Its a matter of when and not if the Scots vote for independence" was his line from today. Have it now you big prick. Does he really think he's doing the English a favour by letting us associate ourselves with them for a few more years?

I really wish Cameron would stop being such a big girl and turn the argument upside down, and start telling the English voters the truth about how much they would benefit from "Scottish Independence". We don't need them to function as a country and we don't give a damn whether they are part of our country or not.

Grrrrrr.

You seem pretty agitated for someone who doesn't care what the Scots do? As for the name calling in your post, well, it is quite childish and makes you look sad

Crann na Beatha

This post has been deleted.

LondonIrish90

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

You seem pretty agitated for someone who doesn't care what the Scots do? As for the name calling in your post, well, it is quite childish and makes you look sad

Its your man Salmond's arrogance, not the will of the Scottish people which is quite annoying. I'm sure the people up there are all very nice and I wish them well on whatever they decide to do with their country.

Fair enough if you think it makes me look sad, that is your judgement, and you are welcome to it. I stand by my opinions on the man running your country though, so I'm not going to be too worried about any of your views of me.

A Dub in Glasgo

LondonIrish90 wrote: »

so I'm not going to be too worried about any of your views of me.

You don't need to be worried about what I think of you using 'fat goon' & 'big prick' to describe somebody. It just shows you up as lacking articulation.

mgmt

mgmt wrote: »

Scotland can't rely on oil, their North Sea reserves peaked in 1999 and declining now by 8% a year. The SNP could push the corporation tax argument during a referendum. Also the Nuclear Submarines are based in Scotland. I'm sure a massive jobs and money spinner.

ISTR that the Scottish independance movement peaked in the early 1980s just as the oil started to flow ashore and the UK was starting it's (brief) period of being an oil exporting nation, devolution has been good for Scotland, full independance while within the EU is a nonsence.

LondonIrish90

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

You don't need to be worried about what I think of you using 'fat goon' & 'big prick' to describe somebody. It just shows you up as lacking articulation.

I don't think it does at all.

It doesn't show me up as anything at all. I think you need to stop trying to be as personal, in particular an attack on your percieved opinions of the intelect of another boards member. I do not share similar views to yourself, but I don't have any opinion of your levels of intelligence or your command of the english language.

I think you need to remember this is a message board where the vast majority of posts are written in an informal style. I am not writing in the same manner as I would be, should I be working on my dissertion.

In any case and since you brought it up, i dare say i am far more articulate and intelligent than you.

dj jarvis

dpe wrote: »

The "English establishment"? Who? The Royal Family? Irrelevant (especially as the SNP aren't advocating getting rid of the Queen as Head of State). The Tories? Dumping Scotland would keep the tories in power for ever. Try to understand, the English don't give a toss about Scotland.

It doesn't matter though, because the Scots aren't stupid enough to dumpt the Union. They get too much from it.

i did not mean the royal family - the establishment is the government - the civil servants - old boys club
read the broad sheet British press , plenty saber rattling on this issue
and i dont need to understand how much they dislike each other , im well aware
i never said it was a good idea - just said good chance of it happening and how it will happen

KeithAFC

I wish my Scottish brothers and sisters the best and hope they can enjoy this term better than the last one. Keep up the good fight.

K-9

These threads seem to actually attract more trolls than Irish Independence ones! :eek:

Killer Pigeon

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vf7muYYQkJQ

delad

Referendum set for Autumn 2014. Polls suggest its a formality at this stage as the people are heavily in favour of independence:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-19942638

Great news for the north of Ireland too as a referendum for them will surely come soon after that.

GalwayGuy2

Great news for the north of Ireland too as a referendum for them will surely come soon after that

Is it? Wouldn't Loyalist groups revolt if they go independent and republican groups revolt if they don't?

delad

GalwayGuy2 wrote: »

Is it? Wouldn't Loyalist groups revolt if they go independent and republican groups revolt if they don't?

You will always have small groups of people who will oppose anything, you can't let them get in the way of whats right.

KINGVictor

delad wrote: »

Referendum set for Autumn 2014. Polls suggest its a formality at this stage as the people are heavily in favour of independence:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-19942638

Great news for the north of Ireland too as a referendum for them will surely come soon after that.

Sorry I am not following, where did it say in the article you referenced that the Scottish people are heavily in favour of independence? On the contrary, the latest opinion polls by yougov indicate that 54% of Scottish people are against independence while 30% support with 16% undecided.

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/Scotland-independence-referendum-Cameron/2012/10/15/id/459982


All that might change in the coming months but right now, your claim that it is a formality is unfounded unless you have personally conducted a poll that you are yet to share with the thread.

gallag

delad wrote: »

Referendum set for Autumn 2014. Polls suggest its a formality at this stage as the people are heavily in favour of independence:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-19942638

Great news for the north of Ireland too as a referendum for them will surely come soon after that.

Err are all polls not showing the opposite? I.e most want to remain part of the u.k?

Also I live in northern Ireland and want to remain part of the U.K and would love to have a referendum right now on the matter to finally put it to bed.

LordSutch

With two years to go before the referendum there are just too many imponderables in the mix to say either way!

Admittedly its good fun guessing, and hoping one way or the other, but at this point in time the Union looks pretty safe, then again a lot can happen in the space of two years and Scotland could indeed depart on a solo mission, or not, as the case may be . . .

Northern Ireland is a seperate issue.

James Forde

Groundskeeper Willy:

Aacch me mule wouldn walk in the mud......so I had to put 17 bullets in 'im

delad

gallag wrote: »

Err are all polls not showing the opposite? I.e most want to remain part of the u.k?

Also I live in northern Ireland and want to remain part of the U.K and would love to have a referendum right now on the matter to finally put it to bed.

No 65% are saying they want independance.

Yeah you would probably prefer a referendum now because its probably around 50/50 in terms of protestants and catholics of voting age now. In about 15 years though that will change dramatically as much more catholics were born than protestants in the last few years.

We will get the North of Ireland back, make no mistake about it, the illegal occupation of the north by David Camerons regime will soon come to an end.

LordSutch

delad wrote: »

We will get the North of Ireland back, make no mistake about it, the illegal occupation of the north by David Camerons regime will soon come to an end.

You/we already have the North of Ireland, but Northern Ireland is a different thing

Iwasfrozen

This is huge, if Scotland leaves then where does that leave the union? No more "triple crown" since Wales was never a kingdom and since five sixths of Ireland left they can hardly claim that kingdom either. So what are you left with a united kingdom of England? Or maybe just England. Whatever about Scotland's ability to survive on it's own Wales is totally reliant on mother England.

admiralofthefleet

if Scotland does leave will they claim the north sea as their territory?

gallag

delad wrote: »

No 65% are saying they want independance.

Yeah you would probably prefer a referendum now because its probably around 50/50 in terms of protestants and catholics of voting age now. In about 15 years though that will change dramatically as much more catholics were born than protestants in the last few years.

We will get the North of Ireland back, make no mistake about it, the illegal occupation of the north by David Camerons regime will soon come to an end.

I think you might lack the ability to read polls?? Can you link me to were you are getting your info? You have to remember, many Scots, like most of the people in Northern Ireland are proud British people. Also, your breeding program you seem to think will net a united Ireland might just bite you on through ass, many Catholics including most of my friends would vote to remain in the U.K.

delad

gallag wrote: »

I think you might lack the ability to read polls?? Can you link me to were you are getting your info? You have to remember, many Scots, like most of the people in Northern Ireland are proud British people. Also, your breeding program you seem to think will net a united Ireland might just bite you on through ass, many Catholics including most of my friends would vote to remain in the U.K.

Have another go at reading the page I linked and you will see where it says 65% woud vote for independance.

Most of the people in Northern Ireland are catholics who want a united Ireland, most protestants I know would also vote for a united Ireland. Your days of the pound and the crown are numbered, enjoy it while it lasts.

super_furry

Sinn Fein don't want a referendum - yet. Our current economic woes make us a lot less attractive than being with the UK - especially when you consider the ammount of financial propping up Northern Ireland takes from the UK. Couple that with the fact that demographics still aren't in the Republicans' favour and it's hard to see Sinn Fein pushing for a referendum before 2020.

delad

super_furry wrote: »

Sinn Fein don't want a referendum - yet. Our current economic woes make us a lot less attractive than being with the UK - especially when you consider the ammount of financial propping up Northern Ireland takes from the UK. Couple that with the fact that demographics still aren't in the Republicans' favour and it's hard to see Sinn Fein pushing for a referendum before 2020.

I agree with that, but one point to make is the north only needs propping up because as the op mentioned in the first post, their economy has no chance having to comply with british tax rates. There is no way they can attract business there since the souths corp tax rate is so much lower.

gallag

delad wrote: »

Have another go at reading the page I linked and you will see where it says 65% woud vote for independance.

Most of the people in Northern Ireland are catholics who want a united Ireland, most protestants I know would also vote for a united Ireland. Your days of the pound and the crown are numbered, enjoy it while it lasts.

Ok, I read it again and see no mention of the new reversal of opinion poll you speak off, could you High light it for me? I would have thought it would be big news such a buck in trend. Also, I believe a large majority of Irish people would vote against a united Ireland? Mabel you have new polls to reference on this also? Remember, your religion does not dictate your vote, most will vote for what is best for them and their family.

gallag

super_furry wrote: »

Sinn Fein don't want a referendum - yet. Our current economic woes make us a lot less attractive than being with the UK - especially when you consider the ammount of financial propping up Northern Ireland takes from the UK. Couple that with the fact that demographics still aren't in the Republicans' favour and it's hard to see Sinn Fein pushing for a referendum before 2020.

Does this not make the whole process very fickle? One minute people will kill or die for a united Ireland, take back our stolen land, brits out etc etc but as soon as it might hit the pocket slightly forget about it, shure the brits are alright???

You can't choose when best suits to be democratic. I would favour the will of the people any time.

citytillidie

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

This is huge, if Scotland leaves then where does that leave the union? No more "triple crown" since Wales was never a kingdom and since five sixths of Ireland left they can hardly claim that kingdom either. So what are you left with a united kingdom of England? Or maybe just England. Whatever about Scotland's ability to survive on it's own Wales is totally reliant on mother England.

Eh Wales was like Ireland split up into Kingdoms and was only once a full Kingdom under Gruffydd ap Llywelyn when he died it was split up again until William the conqueror took it for England

golden lane

the united kingdom of shires.......sounds great to me........

england will just have to stop subsidising the eu then.......and they will all be rich.....

Stinicker

Scotland will be free for reasons most people haven't even considered. The Tories have been in the political wilderness with the last 15 years, they are currently in Coalition with the Lib Dems and by cutting free Scotland they will instantly costs Labour and the Lib Dems massive amount of Westminster seats, crippling them for a long time.

This Map shows how Scotland votes almost exclusively for Labour and the Lib Dems in the UK General Elections.

There was once a time when the Tories had such a slim majority in Parliament that they were propped up by the Unionists in Northern Ireland who were totally catered to with investment and infrastructure in Eastern and Northern NI where Unionism is at its strongest.

Scotland will be Independent and simple demographics in Northern Ireland wll also deliver a United Ireland sometime within the next 20 years as for every protestant baby being born today there is two protestants dying and for every single Catholic death there is two Catholic babies being born, by 2020 Catholics in Northern Ireland will be the majority; and as the Unionists have always said it is the majority rules.

Sound of Silence

delad wrote: »

I agree with that, but one point to make is the north only needs propping up because as the op mentioned in the first post, their economy has no chance having to comply with british tax rates. There is no way they can attract business there since the souths corp tax rate is so much lower.

Northern Ireland is the very definition of a subsidized State; and this is unlikely to change anytime soon.

There were in fact calls from Northern Irish Politicians to lower Corporation Tax within the Province. The cruel irony is, however, that in order to qualify for the Tax reduction, the Northern Irish State would have to adhere to EU Rules, which state that such a tax reduction would have to be matched by a reduction in the block grant the province receives each year from Westminster.

With 77.6% of Northern Ireland's GDP tied up in State spending, and the ever increasing pressure on Westminster to limit the constant pleas for devolving the Tax system, it's unlikely that this will ever come to fruition. Whilst a certain percentage of the Northern Irish people may value the Union, it's clear that they are often suffocated by it.

Duckworth_Luas

Stinicker wrote: »

... for every protestant baby being born today there is two protestants dying ...

The protestants should stop having babies! :eek:

KINGVictor

delad wrote: »

No 65% are saying they want independance.

Yeah you would probably prefer a referendum now because its probably around 50/50 in terms of protestants and catholics of voting age now. In about 15 years though that will change dramatically as much more catholics were born than protestants in the last few years.

We will get the North of Ireland back, make no mistake about it, the illegal occupation of the north by David Camerons regime will soon come to an end.

Yeah I understand your position but coming back to the land of reality and facts- where did you pluck out that 65% pro-independence figure from?

dhmusic

no thanks to the 6 counties, Dublin and Cork have enough rural villages to subsidise as it is without adding more.