Hole in an old Reynolds Frame! Advice please

Joeyde

Hi all,

I rescued a lovely Dawes Galaxy with Reynolds 531 out of the dumpster in my appartments! thought it was just a good wheel and when I pulled there was a bike attached.. Its around 1980 from reading about the decals.

Anyway it needs a little work and was neglected badly, so I started stripping it (Im new to this by the way so advice is welcomed). I think the 7speed wheel was squeezed into it at the rear and I found a little hole in the A-frame possibly from the wheel or something catching..

Is the frame compromised now? Will it be fine anyway? Could I spot weld it!?

I attached photos, the hole is on the small tubing at the back near the seat tube if you can see it? Any advice is appreciated, its a lovely frame and I would love to breathe some life into it!

kona

That hole is normal. Its there to let the gasses escape when welding the tubing. You will notice more around the bike. there should be some more at the dropouts, and big ones in the BB shell for the Downtube and seat tubE.
Take your time stripping it and dont force anything

Joeyde

Cheers Kona!

The hole doesnt look uniform and there is wear around it (bad quality camera) so I was worried about it.

I may drift back with more silly questions...its an addiction to another degree!!

And dont worry...Ill be gentle:p

kona

Joeyde wrote: »

Cheers Kona!

The hole doesnt look uniform and there is wear around it (bad quality camera) so I was worried about it.

I may drift back with more silly questions...its an addiction to another degree!!

And dont worry...Ill be gentle:p

It does look like the tyre was rubbing off the area allrite, but your okay. For peace of mind Id be inclined to get that sandblasted and see if there is any corrosion issues or cracks. Especially a bike from a skip. I remember I found a old specialized with full XTR on it, love finds like that!

Joeyde

This has an XTR RD on it..its a mess but Im gonna clean it up. Worth a few pennies then? Not familiar with components tbh. Not sure about the FD.

BB needs work or replacement but the cranks and pedals are good. There are weinmann pull brakes on it in great condition and weinmann brake levers that are ok.. she is a good find alright!

Sorry to keep at you Kona, where does one get a bike sand blasted? Should I talk to one of the mechanics on adverts? Would love to get fresh paint on her and some new decals. Think I could have it on the road soon enough all going well.

High Nellie

I don't think that hole is 'normal'. I also probably means that water got into the frame and there might be some corrosion in the tube.
Having said that, i wouldn't worry about it too much as there are two tubes there and, in the very unlikely event of a 'catastrophic failure' of the tube will mean that the bike won't collapse - probably just get a bit wobbly.

gman2k

You're gonna have to strip that frame back to bare metal.
It looks like it has rusted straight through at the hole you've found, but it looks repairable.
You'll have to rust proof the frame inside and out, the hole may be able to be filled with some brazing.
Be prepared to spend maybe €150 on stripping, rust killing/proofing and respray.
But that's all part of the fun!

kenmc

High Nellie wrote: »

I don't think that hole is 'normal'. I also probably means that water got into the frame and there might be some corrosion in the tube.
Having said that, i wouldn't worry about it too much as there are two tubes there and, in the very unlikely event of a 'catastrophic failure' of the tube will mean that the bike won't collapse - probably just get a bit wobbly.

Agree, usually the intended holes are underneath so that if any water gets in it will drain out rather than pooling in the tubing and rusting.
I'd be a bit wary, but as Nellie said it won't result in a catastrophic failure if it does go. You could almost certainly get it brazed over, maybe drill it out a bit more. Check carefully for more rust though, cos it's likely that water got in there and has rusted away some other bits of the stay.

Holyboy

kona wrote: »

It does look like the tyre was rubbing off the area allrite, but your okay. For peace of mind Id be inclined to get that sandblasted and see if there is any corrosion issues or cracks. Especially a bike from a skip. I remember I found a old specialized with full XTR on it, love finds like that!

Jesus christ, no offence Kona but dangerous advice! 1/ that hole is not usual, 2/ the frame is not "welded" it's brazed or even silver soldered, 3/ if it's sandblasted there's a very good chance it will end up with even more holes in it!!
I'm afraid I really wouldn't trust that stay,with a hole like that and probably rust inside there's a very good chance it could fail,people never believe me when I say things like this but I've seen so many frames just snap over the years.
If you really wanted to keep the frame you could get the the stay replaced, not cheap and you would have to send it to the U.K. as nobody over here builds or repairs frames, but that could change soon;)

kona

Holyboy wrote: »

Jesus christ, no offence Kona but dangerous advice! 1/ that hole is not usual, 2/ the frame is not "welded" it's brazed or even silver soldered, 3/ if it's sandblasted there's a very good chance it will end up with even more holes in it!!
I'm afraid I really wouldn't trust that stay,with a hole like that and probably rust inside there's a very good chance it could fail,people never believe me when I say things like this but I've seen so many frames just snap over the years.
If you really wanted to keep the frame you could get the the stay replaced, not cheap and you would have to send it to the U.K. as nobody over here builds or repairs frames, but that could change soon;)

That hole isnt dangerous, if you want to be sure bring it to somebody with a Mig welder and get it welded. No need to start replacing stays thats OTT. The point of sandblasting is to get rid of the rust, no doubt there could be more holes. But they get fixed

OP if you have no confidence in that bike, ill take it and ride it

I was wrong on the welded hole, but they are used on AL frames and steel frames, of similar size in a similar position. Not a chance it will fail.

kona

Joeyde wrote: »

This has an XTR RD on it..its a mess but Im gonna clean it up. Worth a few pennies then? Not familiar with components tbh. Not sure about the FD.

BB needs work or replacement but the cranks and pedals are good. There are weinmann pull brakes on it in great condition and weinmann brake levers that are ok.. she is a good find alright!

Sorry to keep at you Kona, where does one get a bike sand blasted? Should I talk to one of the mechanics on adverts? Would love to get fresh paint on her and some new decals. Think I could have it on the road soon enough all going well.

try howard engineering in glasnevin.

Holyboy

kona wrote: »

That hole isnt dangerous, if you want to be sure bring it to somebody with a Mig welder and get it welded. No need to start replacing stays thats OTT. The point of sandblasting is to get rid of the rust, no doubt there could be more holes. But they get fixed

OP if you have no confidence in that bike, ill take it and ride it

I was wrong on the welded hole, but they are used on AL frames and steel frames, of similar size in a similar position. Not a chance it will fail.

MORE BAD ADVICE......531 tubes are too thin to weld in any way and the same goes for sand blasting, unless the person doing it is VERY,VERY careful and I mean VERY it'll just blast right through the frame,why do you think frames were brazed in the first place, it wasn't for looks,it's because the thin tubes couldn't be welded, I don't want to start an argument on here but when you're giving out advice that could get someone injured I feel I should give my opinion, I have friends in the U.K. who are frame builders and I have read an unhealthy amount about the subject, so I do know what I'm talking about, the stay CAN NOT be repaired, but I can't stop him riding it!!!!!

kona

Holyboy wrote: »

MORE BAD ADVICE......531 tubes are too thin to weld in any way and the same goes for sand blasting, unless the person doing it is VERY,VERY careful and I mean VERY it'll just blast right through the frame,why do you think frames were brazed in the first place, it wasn't for looks,it's because the thin tubes couldn't be welded, I don't want to start an argument on here but when you're giving out advice that could get someone injured I feel I should give my opinion, I have friends in the U.K. who are frame builders and I have read an unhealthy amount about the subject, so I do know what I'm talking about, the stay CAN NOT be repaired, but I can't stop him riding it!!!!!

Your entitled to your opinion on it as am I. IMO the frame is fine, and yes it can be welded, either by Mig or if they are wafer thin Tig. Obviously you will have to get it done by somebody with a clue on how to use a welder. You can weld pretty thin bits of steel, such as car body panels without blowing holes in them. I cant see Tubing being much thinner than car body panels.

Do you know exactley how thin 531 tubing is? If its as thin as your making out im suprised its even used as a frame building material.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reynolds_531 I know wiki can be a bad refrence especially for materials , but 531 apparantley has a similar composition to EN16. EN16 can be found amongst other places on con rods on some older cars. It was also apparantly used as a subframes on the Jag E type..
I cant find yield strength for 531 but its quoted UTS is 700-900 MPa thats almost twice aluminium.

Further googling says the stays on some bikes aint 531 at all and that its straight tubing with the top tube and down tube butted.

IMO that bike is fine, however I would sand blast it if I wanted to be 100%, then inspect it and see what the story is. If sandblasting shows up holes thats good, its showing you areas the bike has corroded.

Holyboy

kona wrote: »

Your entitled to your opinion on it as am I. IMO the frame is fine, and yes it can be welded, either by Mig or if they are wafer thin Tig. Obviously you will have to get it done by somebody with a clue on how to use a welder. You can weld pretty thin bits of steel, such as car body panels without blowing holes in them. I cant see Tubing being much thinner than car body panels.

Do you know exactley how thin 531 tubing is? If its as thin as your making out im suprised its even used as a frame building material.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reynolds_531 I know wiki can be a bad refrence especially for materials , but 531 apparantley has a similar composition to EN16. EN16 can be found amongst other places on con rods on some older cars. It was also apparantly used as a subframes on the Jag E type..
I cant find yield strength for 531 but its quoted UTS is 700-900 MPa thats almost twice aluminium.

Further googling says the stays on some bikes aint 531 at all and that its straight tubing with the top tube and down tube butted.

IMO that bike is fine, however I would sand blast it if I wanted to be 100%, then inspect it and see what the story is. If sandblasting shows up holes thats good, its showing you areas the bike has corroded.

Of course you're entitled to your opinion, I just don't like taking chances that's why I always use caution when it comes to things like this,Reynolds discontinued 531 because of its inability to be tig welded but you are right about the fact the stays probably aren't 531 but still fairly thin, any steel like that shouldn't be welded in any way as the heat needed to melt it leaves it much weaker than it's supposed to be, this isn't true for some of their newer tubing which actually strengthens as it air cools, I'm only treating this situation as if it wear a customer and if the worst possible thing happened albeit unlikely he could end up under a bus!
If you're in the trade I'm sure you heard what happened to poor ol' Hollingsworth.
The stay could be replaced and whole frame repainted in the U.K. for about £150, that doesn't include postage but it's still fairly cheap, Bob Jackson or Argos are two of my favorites.
I do love discussions like this, I'm definitely not a know it all even though I sometimes come across as one, I'm on here to learn as much as the next person, hope I haven't offended you at all:D

happytramp

Holyboy wrote: »

I'm sure you heard what happened to poor ol' Hollingsworth.

Out of curiosity, what happened to Hollingsworth??

Holyboy

happytramp wrote: »

Out of curiosity, what happened to Hollingsworth??

It was in the paper a few months ago, a judge awarded a customer €48,000 after he broke his collar bone( I think ) when he fell off his bike after it was repaired by them,I'm not sure which Hollingsworth it was and I can only go on what I read in the paper and what I've been told by people in the trade,I obviously haven't talked to their former customer but they say it wasn't their fault but the judge didn't see it like that, so someone who repairs bicycles for a living has to be careful about sending people out on busy roads,even before this I have refused many jobs as it wouldn't have been possible to make the bike safe enough for my liking even though it means me or the shop I might have worked in loosing out on the money.

Beasty

Thread here discussing the €48k compensation award

Joeyde

Appreciate the debate thats going on here. Good to get opinions. TBH I am hoping to get it on the road at minimum cost. Just wanted to fix up a nice old frame for myself. Thanks Kona for your pitch in and Holyboy for your concern for my safety. Ill get the frame inspected to see if its rusted through which is my main concern at the moment, and maybe spray the inside.

If its in bad shape I will pick up a frame somewhere else and use the components and parts I rescued.

gman2k

And if Kona doesn't take it from you, then can I be next in line? :-)

Joeyde

If I manage to make a mess of it Ill be sure to pass into more able hands.

Working on the BB now, cranks and brakes all cleaned up, even the chain was rescued.

I might post how Im getting on in another while anyways.

BostonB

I know nothing about bike frames. But that hole looks like it was worn by something rubbing it. I can't imagine someone would ride it long enough with a tyre rubbing to do that, or that a tyre would stand up to it. The ridges seem to small for a tyre, more like a file mark. But I'm just guessing.

Joeyde

Im not surprised really, the bike was a mess, gunked up everywhere. I think the wheel jammed into it was too big. Had trouble getting it off. Probably wearing away at it for a while.