A question that needs answering

therecklessone

IMHO

With three men on Bale at times in the 1st half today, where was the movement to exploit the space? The white shirt to give him an option once crwoded out? That is a basic failure of coaching, and I don't give a fúck if it is Redknapp's fault or one of his happy bunch of "jobs for the boys" buddies, but somebody in the backroom has to up their game.

It can't simply be that the players are too thick.

Bale has been made to look sh1t since the turn of the year because we haven't a clue how to react once he gets double or tripled marked.

mickman

To be honest that's Luca's job ( attacking midfielder ) or vdv's job as he Is given freedom on the while pitch to do ad he likes as his reading of the game is so " good "

Dublin Spur

Dunno about this as I didnt see the game.

We're in a slump but it's not a disaster, we've seen much much darker days before.

If the manager cant fix this next season, I'll accept that we will probabaly need a repalcement.

therecklessone

That's a rather glib response tbh mate.

This isn't about a bad run of form, it is about the fact that as a team we do not appear to know how to respond to teams that manage to take Bale out of a game. That isn't limited to a recent run of games, it has been the case in domestic football as far back as the Everton home game in October.

Teams double and triple mark Bale, we run out of ideas.

That is why we struggle against the lesser teams, they are not blessed with the attacking talent of United or Chelsea so have to nullify our attack then hope to expose weaknesses at the back.

You don't need to buy your way out of a problem like this, and it is not about individual players' ability, it is about coaching and tactics and prepearing a team well.

therecklessone

mickman wrote: »

To be honest that's Luca's job ( attacking midfielder ) or vdv's job as he Is given freedom on the while pitch to do ad he likes as his reading of the game is so " good "

If they are not doing it why are they not being told to do it?

If they can't do it why do we insist on giving Bale the ball in the 1st place?

Dublin Spur

therecklessone wrote: »

That's a rather glib response tbh mate.

This isn't about a bad run of form, it is about the fact that as a team we do not appear to know how to respond to teams that manage to take Bale out of a game. That isn't limited to a recent run of games, it has been the case in domestic football as far back as the Everton home game in October.

Teams double and triple mark Bale, we run out of ideas.

That is why we struggle against the lesser teams, they are not blessed with the attacking talent of United or Chelsea so have to nullify our attack then hope to expose weaknesses at the back.

You don't need to buy your way out of a problem like this, and it is not about individual players' ability, it is about coaching and tactics and prepearing a team well.

I just think the guy has earned some time to turn things around.

If our current form continues into next season, there won't be many viable excuses for him.

To the people who want Harry sacked I would say this: The grass is very seldom greener, and we Spurs fans should know this better than anyone.

But I'm sure that won't stop the witch-hunt that seems to be developing.

In my opinion, until things change at the very top of the club, nothing much will change on the field.

Same chairman = Same way of doing business = Same results
You reap what you sow and ENIC are in the profit game first and the glory game second. I realised this a while ago and it's part of the reason I don't go much anymore. It's just a business and they (club and players) don't give a fcuk.

I think it's criminal that the club sat on it's hands in 2 windows while all around us spent heavily on thier squads.

therecklessone

Dublin Spur wrote: »

I just think the guy has earned some time to turn things around.

If our current form continues into next season, there won't be many viable excuses for him.

To the people who want Harry sacked I would say this: The grass is very seldom greener, and we Spurs fans should know this better than anyone.

But I'm sure that won't stop the witch-hunt that seems to be developing.

There's a huge differnce between wanting Redknapp canned and asking valid questions Shane.

Do you think our lack of performance against the bottom teams will improve next season?

And are you really thinking through the implications of what you are saying in reply to my points? That Levy squandered two transfer windows, and that explains our current position? Would you really say that we need to spend money to beat teams like West Ham and Wolves?

Dublin Spur

therecklessone wrote: »

There's a huge differnce between wanting Redknapp canned and asking valid questions Shane.

Do you think our lack of performance against the bottom teams will improve next season?

And are you really thinking through the implications of what you are saying in reply to my points? That Levy squandered two transfer windows, and that explains our current position? Would you really say that we need to spend money to beat teams like West Ham and Wolves?

I never suggested that you wanted HR canned Ronan, just there there seems to be a bit of a witch hunt developing.

I think our performance against the bottom teams will improve next season. But I also accept that the gap in quality/tactics between all teams has never been smaller. This is been reflected in a hugh amount of "upsets" this season. I actually think it's good for the game, but that's a different debate.

From what I've seen this season, our failure to beat these "bottom sides" is mostly due to an inability to put the ball in the net. We create plenty of chances but our forwards seem to have lost the plot. So in answer to your question, Yes if the club had invested in a ctr forward (Dezko for example) I think we would have won most of those fustrating games.

On a side note, we actually beat Wolves this season mate

philon

therecklessone wrote: »

IMHO

With three men on Bale at times in the 1st half today, where was the movement to exploit the space? The white shirt to give him an option once crwoded out? That is a basic failure of coaching, and I don't give a fúck if it is Redknapp's fault or one of his happy bunch of "jobs for the boys" buddies, but somebody in the backroom has to up their game.

It can't simply be that the players are too thick.

Bale has been made to look sh1t since the turn of the year because we haven't a clue how to react once he gets double or tripled marked.

----
Valid point Ronan.
And to think that we have 2/3 players that should be perfect to exploit a situation where Bale is double/triple teamed. Lennon should be the perfect foil of this. When a defense overloads 1 side there is bound to be space left elsewhere and with his pace, it should cause havoc ( even with his crossing abilty).
You also have Luca's ability in the middle of the park And VdV's roaming...so Question is, why are we not exploiting the positives of our side....As Ronan asks, is it down to coaching ????
It seems that it is a simple solution....but then again, I'm not a football coach

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not for getting rid of Harry but I am for some sort of change in the technical/coaching dept !!

Hatch99

This topic was discussed before and my opinion has not changed. It all comes down to the manager. He sets the team up, and he tells them what way to play, and if it is not working , the onus is on him to change things, something he is not capable of doing. How many times have we said it when we were playing poor sides, change things, formation, players, method of play, whatever it may be, but we never seem to be capable of doing it.

Harry has some positives, but at the level we want to get to now, I dont think he is capable. Tactically, he is clueless imho. Him and his group of coaches around him look bewildered when we cant break teams down.

Our record against the shi*e in the league is laughable.

therecklessone

Shane, I'm breaking your last post into easier to follow chunks for a reply, not to nit pick.

Dublin Spur wrote: »

I think our performance against the bottom teams will improve next season. But I also accept that the gap in quality/tactics between all teams has never been smaller. This is been reflected in a hugh amount of "upsets" this season.

The facts don't back that up Shane, I've posted them up on the season stats thread but here's another one for you:

If you strip out the results vs the bottom 6 here'd be the table as of half-time in the Stoke-Arsenal game:

Man Utd 48
Spurs 42
Chelsea 40
Liverpool 40
Arsenal 35
Man City 35

That's your bread and butter stuff IMO, if you're not beating the bottom 6 sides consistently then you're not challenging for honours.

Dublin Spur wrote: »

From what I've seen this season, our failure to beat these "bottom sides" is mostly due to an inability to put the ball in the net. We create plenty of chances but our forwards seem to have lost the plot. So in answer to your question, Yes if the club had invested in a ctr forward (Dezko for example) I think we would have won most of those fustrating games.

We scored 12 goals vs Wigan last season, 1 this season. Our forwards aren't scoing that is true, but Defoe, Crouch and Pav have not become sh1t overnight. A managers job is to get the best out of the resources at his disposal, do you think David Moyes can explain the half time turnaround vs City by his transfer spending? Do you think his tactical adjustment consisted of "get out there and play"?

Would a top class forward have converted more chances for us this year? Very probably, but what happens when he gets figured out? We spend again, and again, and again?

Ever wondered why Wayne Rooney is often employed wide left or right in a midfield 5, then can play up top with Berbatov or Chico? And why he is effective in both roles? Why Samuel Eto'o played as a full back for Inter vs Barcelona on the way to last season's CL final?

On a side note, we actually beat Wolves this season mate

Touche

Dublin Spur

Fair enough Ronan, our season has been disapointing, the rot started after Christmas and we never really recovered. The statistics support this. There is no counter arguement to this. We are in total agreement.

My main point is that I beleive the manager deserves some time to sort out the mess,
I beleive he has earned the right to a stay of execution. I wouldn't have said the same about Hoddle, Ramos, Francis, Gross etc.

Spurs fans looking for the manager to be sacked is such a familure sight, I think we would be a laughing stock if the club decided to sack a manager for finishing in the top 5 or 6.

On a more positive note, we have only lost 7 games, this is our best defeat record since the double winning team. Or big problem has been draws. If HR can work out how to turn more draws into wins we'll be back up there. And as I said before, for me he's bought him self time to fix this due to the transformantion he delivered when he arrived.

mickman

I don't think Lennon shud back up bale as he would spend all day on the left wing then and no one on the right

I think it's vdv's job ad he is allowed roam but I don't think Harry or anyone else can tell that fella what to do

Articles around today saying he will he moved in in the summer

I think Defoe shud defo be kept as he is a fine player. Someone said dzecko wud have converted lots of chances for us !! No way, he isn't worth the money they paid at all

I Think Harry is confused as to what system to play and hence all the striker changes I.e crouch scored two last game he played and has been benches since

Leinstersqspur

My two cents:

On the back of his achievements to date Harry has to be given at least one more season to clear the dead wood from the squad (JJ, Keane, Crouch?). Lest we not forget "the mess we were in when he arrived";)

The Harry bashers must not be Tottenham fans long enough. I for one do not wish to return to the days of mid-table mediocrity, sacking our manager every two seasons and reverting to being Man Utd's favourite feeder club! For this reason I am happy to plug away fighting for 4-6th spot under HR and enduring the catastrophic blunders of players like Gomes (RM and Chelsea), BAE (Blackpool), Dawson (Fulham) and Crouch (RM) throughout the season.

But this should not be enough for us Spurs. Why can we not progress further? It's evident HR is tactically naive/weak. Holloway showed up yesterday, put one extra in the middle and after the first 10-15mins I knew it was gonna be one of those days. We've had too much of that this season, the examples are abundant!

In my opinion, Spurs is Harry's first big club experience and he is still learning to manage a team that for once in his career is expected to win more games than lose;) So, one more season to get rid of the poor coaching and tactics that has plagued our impotent strike-force and left our defence looking - at times - as nervous as a group of brassers at confession!

Now that the CL honeymoon is over, 'progression' should be the acid test for Harry and his cohort next season. Failing that Moyes should be the man for the job, a proven consistent Scotsman sounds good!

curraghyid

I agree with keeping defoe , he has had a very poor year but with injuries he never got any momentum.
He will always score goals.

As far as HR is concerned he is a proven motivator of players,and i would imagine its not an easy job. The big worry is while harrys eye for a bargain and the sucess of his arm round the shoulder style of management is not in doubt, he needs more, the irrational displays on the sideline and his inability to get his message accross to the players on the pitch suggest that he isnt fully in control, and that is his job to manage and control his team of staff and players.
How competent are the staff jordon,allen know how to score goals but tactically how much do they bring does harry listen to them.

HR deserves another season he has been the catalyst for the most sucessful period since the venebles era, but i have serious doubts about anything other than falling further behind without a shake up starting with the technical staff.

crustybread

The formation is the problem, not defoe,pavlyuchenko or crouch or bale being double marked. We do not have a definite shape. The team is changed to accomadate VDV and although I've enjoyed him this season I don't think he is needed. None of UTD, Chelsea or Ar5ena1 buid their team around one player. The whole forward line is unbalanced to fit him in. We should stick to what we know. 4-4-2. If he wants to play VDV stick him up front with another striker. Laughing watching Les Ferdinand come up on ESPN with Striking Coach under his name. Ridiculous, This season has fizzled out to nothing. Sickened to be honest, promised so much....

This bullsh*t about "finishing fifth is bad" is a farce as well. Let's finish as high as we can. We need the money the europa league will bring cause we are going to make one hell of a loss shipping out fringe players in the summer. Keane/Bentley ain't going to make half what they were bought for. Next season is going to be tough but on a positive note we are the best club in the world.

COYS

therecklessone

crustybread wrote: »

We should stick to what we know. 4-4-2.

We did on Saturday, and Bale was triple-marked, and nobody made any use of the space provided by that.

crustybread

therecklessone wrote: »

We did on Saturday, and Bale was triple-marked, and nobody made any use of the space provided by that.

That wasn't a 4-4-2. Maybe in name but Van der Vaart was everywhere but the right hand side of midfield and still couldn't influence the game. Lennon should have started. Pav & defoe do not work up front. Too lazy...

Hatch99

It's the stick to 442 attitude that really annoys me. We need to adapt, in each and every game. I remember a while ago we went to Stoke, and were forced to play 433 due to injuries and suspensions and we were brilliant and won. I laugh to myself when I think that we have never played that way since then :rolleyes:

RoboClam

After watching the first half of the Liverpool game, is anyone else worried?

mickman

6th is most likely now. Better than 5th. Europa league is a messy competition

Dublin Spur

mickman wrote: »

6th is most likely now. Better than 5th. Europa league is a messy competition

agreed