ERU, have they regained confidence?

Chavways

Fallschirmjager wrote: »

where on the leg do you recommend they aim for? from memory your leg has 3 main arteries and one in particular is the femoral artery. again from memory its the second largest artery in your body.

a military grade bullet or shotgun hitting your leg is going to do the following damage

it will blow away considerable muscle mass, crush your bone that will shatter and pepper your artery(ies) causing huge damage and i might add blast bone fragments into your blood stream. unless they have battlefield experience on site, a person would not survive or at least has a low chance of survival. by way of example and no exaggeration, a femoral arterial hit can spray blood anywhere from 1-2 meters and if your heart rate is up (and it will you are firing after all) it could be more. you will suffer massive blood loss very quickly. the objective of a bullet or shotgun is to kill, and sorry i am not trying to insult your intelligence but you would be amazed the amount of people who think you can take a round designed for one thing and then do another. the objective of a round is to cause as much damage as possible. also keep in mind they have no idea what type of round someone now has in a shotgun, does he or she have the ones they were firing earlier, or has he reloaded with something he got or made himself? you may throw your eyes to heaven with that but remember, he was firing on police, so he is not exactly stable (and i am not directing this at the poor guy who was shot, it could be anyone). they have crossed the rubicon. we also need to remember why we have a team like the ERU, there are really nasty people around who dont think like you and me and again i am not talking about this chap with psychological problems. the goal and objective of the ERU is to stop a dangerous situation. the person shooting have picked up a weapon against an unarmed population and an unarmed garda force. they have moved to the next step.

i think placing yourself in the situation of the garda changes the percepton. no matter what training you receive, when someone fires at you its different. as the saying goes, there are no atheists in a foxhole. so he comes out of the house with a shotgun, a weapon built for maximum damage. it doesnt matter if you are wearing kevlar or not, it doesnt cover your entire body. by way of example, there is a reason the US military now wears what looks like a crotch cover in military vest in Iraq and afghanistan, its not to protect your family jewels, it to protect the arteries in your pelvic area. but there is no full body protection, except if you deploy a tank, and again i am not trying to be slick in the answer.

so when someone engages the garda, when do you fire? when he comes out of the house? when he fires or before? at what point is it safe to return fire. when someone is shooting at you, your job as a ERU or anyone else at that point is to survive and limit the damage caused by the person firing.
there is a reason the military aim at body mass, its the biggest place on your body, it contains critical organs and no matter who you are you will drop. the goal is to stop the shooting as quick as possible. do i support the ERU, yes, do i think at that point they were under trained and under funded, yes. do i think they had the wrong weaponry, probably. do i think they made a mistake, i dont know. hindsight in these cases is always easier when you have time to decide, but in the cauldron of a situation like this with little time to decide, i think you will agree its not so easy.after action reports are exactly that...they are after action, far away from the pressure, with time to analyse.

also honestly and to the original poster, i really dont care what the FBI think, they are not exactly covered in glory in situations like this and in a position to throw their weight around. if they have some criticism, may i suggest they reread their own reports on the ruby ridge shooting but again, thats after the fact reporting as well.

so the whole leg hit is not really feasible IMHO. its a nice idea but why doesnt every person shooting on the battlefield or police forces use that, the reason is it is simply not an easy target to hit or as safe as you might think.

obviously just my opinion.

also that shot of shooting the gun out of the hand in the US caused mayhem in the US Swat community because it lead people to believe that shot is always possible and easily performed and it is not and also what if he missed? i would also ask you to look for a similar example when they tried to wound a guy holding people in a restaurant. they missed (the were firing through glass)and he started to execute people. sorry i looked for it on youtube but could not find it, it is also horrific. so it looks impressive to shoot a pistol out of a hand but it is not feasible . the permutations in a shot like that are huge, wind velocity, distance, accuracy of weapon, stability of round, even the rifling on the weapon will affect it, not to mention the physical state of the person holding the target weapon. if that guy had moved is weapon 2 inches, you would be looking at a totally different situation.

No need for the essay:o

Bosco boy

Chavways wrote: »

No need for the essay:o

There was every need and it's factual and relevant.

Sofa King Great

The ERU are regarded as best in class by many of their foreign colleagues.

Man shot at them 26 times and then began to approach them while disobeying their calls for him to desist.

yammycat

The 'guards' are just benefit scroungers with added benefits, those being freedom to abuse assault and kill people with no consequences, they are the lowest form of life who have neither the ability nor inclination to provide anything of worth to society, each and every one is a sociopath whose first consideration is his job/pension , once that is secure in any situation he will put the boot in and assault is the best you can hope for, if you are lucky.

It wasn't me!

yammycat wrote: »

The 'guards' are just benefit scroungers with added benefits, those being freedom to abuse assault and kill people with no consequences, they are the lowest form of life who have neither the ability nor inclination to provide anything of worth to society, each and every one is a sociopath whose first consideration is his job/pension , once that is secure in any situation he will put the boot in and assault is the best you can hope for, if you are lucky.

I guess I must have just imagined the multitude of helpful Gardai I've experienced who've gone out of their way to provide me with services, with no expectation of anything in return. Your post above is the biggest pile of steaming shíte I've read on Boards in quite some time.

Raging_Ninja

yammycat wrote: »

The 'guards' are just benefit scroungers with added benefits, those being freedom to abuse assault and kill people with no consequences, they are the lowest form of life who have neither the ability nor inclination to provide anything of worth to society, each and every one is a sociopath whose first consideration is his job/pension , once that is secure in any situation he will put the boot in and assault is the best you can hope for, if you are lucky.

I know how you feel bro. Sure, every time you were arrested it was always somebody else's fault. They just don't like the look of you.

yammycat

It wasn't me! wrote: »

I guess I must have just imagined the multitude of helpful Gardai I've experienced who've gone out of their way to provide me with services, with no expectation of anything in return. Your post above is the biggest pile of steaming shíte I've read on Boards in quite some time.

Multitude of guards you've experienced, are you a guard groupie ? there's never any need to see those wasters bar to get your passport or whatnot and they'll leave you holding your dick at the desk while they finish their coffee.

It wasn't me!

I'm involved with organisations which depend heavily on local and district level Gardai and their performance has been superb, by and large. I deal with them all the time.

yammycat

It wasn't me! wrote: »

I'm involved with organisations which depend heavily on local and district level Gardai and their performance has been superb, by and large. I deal with them all the time.

Would that organisation be the catholic church and the dependance is on hushing up child rape ?

Raging_Ninja

Never argue with an idiot, he'll just drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

It wasn't me!

yammycat wrote: »

Would that organisation be the catholic church and the dependance is on hushing up child rape ?

No, no it would not, nor is it any business of yours what the organisations are. Good thing I'm not easily offended by thinly veiled accusations like that though, eh?

yammycat

It wasn't me! wrote: »

No, no it would not, nor is it any business of yours what the organisations are. Good thing I'm not easily offended by thinly veiled accusations like that though, eh?

Good thing I'm easily deflected by denials

HappyTuesday

Feck, why are people feeling sorry for shotgun wielding maniacs? They should have blasted Carthy after he refused the first request to put the gun down.

misterdarkness

CommuterIE wrote: »

What, one guy with a shotgun above his head?? And they shoot him dead...

You were there watching it I take it??? Actually the account was he came out with shotgun broken then locked and loaded swung around and pointed it. FBI when examining it said the mistake that was made was that he was not shot sooner.

I remember in lusk one post office robber was shot dead few years ago coming at guards with sledge hammer and on Joe Duffy that day people coming on saying the guards murdered him. Come on, if you have a weapon and police tell you drop it I tend to think the correct course of action is to do exactly that. Frankly metally I'll or scumbag you endanger public or police like that I'm all for deadly force. Remember also the guy that pulls trigger has to live with it.

misterdarkness

yammycat wrote: »

Would that organisation be the catholic church and the dependance is on hushing up child rape ?

Well there is solution join sinn Fein the party of equals and only honest people in Ireland hard to keep straight face saying that lol

Or option two

Leave country, I'm sure we would all miss you and go back to the catholic church