What bull to give cows. Dairy

Finno59

cant decide what breed to give the cows. dairy herd , dont need any more fresians , never had any luck with charolais , limousin bring to many days with them, belgium bule seem to be too milky, have allready given a few blacks but there .............blacks, had parthenaise in mind but ai man says there a bit leggy ??? now have blonde d'aquataine the bull jigsaw in mind , anyone any experience with either of these 2 breeds and what are ye using?

bogman_bass

So its a beef bull for the dairy heard you want?
When do you sell the calves?

If you have cows with wide pins you cant beat an easy calving blue like CGG and they dont carry many days

Herefords are handy enough calved and quite. maybe used a polled hereford like GCT

Angus are the kings of easy calving. get you cows back in calf easy. No skulling needed

wouldnt look ouside those 3 really unless you wanted to use something unusual:

Murry grays are polled as far as I know and are very easy calved

Finno59

bogman_bass wrote: »

So its a beef bull for the dairy heard you want?
When do you sell the calves?

If you have cows with wide pins you cant beat an easy calving blue like CGG and they dont carry many days

Herefords are handy enough calved and quite. maybe used a polled hereford like GCT

Angus are the kings of easy calving. get you cows back in calf easy. No skulling needed

wouldnt look ouside those 3 really unless you wanted to use something unusual:

Murry grays are polled as far as I know and are very easy calved

sell them at 18 months, never heard of murry greys!
saw a few nice herefords in the catalogue might give a few,

5live

Murray grey are an australian breed mostly derived from angus imports crossed with crossbred introduced cattle. Average gestation was about 275 days so the calf was small but hardy and up quickly. I used one years ago, Lis na lee leopard(?), little beauties and looked just like an angus

Finno59

actually theres only 2 hereford in the cat , was gettin them mixed up with shornhorns

irishh_bob

hereford is the obvious choice , plenty of demand for hereford heifers out of the dairy herd now too

keep going

i would say stick with your aa or hd safer,aubrac are easy enough too

bogman_bass

which A.I. company do you use?

whelan1

saw some fantastic limousin crosses off br/fr cows last week.... they where yearlings , the owner said the suckler guys go mad for them... we use canadian angus on our cows and the calves are fine... i would keep away from charolaois as they carry a good bit of time with them

linebacker52

freisain heifer calves are still making upto 500 or 600 hunderd euro so even if you dont what them someone else will.thats what im doing this year using all freisain ai and selling off anything i dont need.

whelan1

linebacker52 wrote: »

freisain heifer calves are still making upto 500 or 600 hunderd euro so even if you dont what them someone else will.thats what im doing this year using all freisain ai and selling off anything i dont need.

thats was i was thinking a friesian replacement will always be worth money

irishh_bob

linebacker52 wrote: »

freisain heifer calves are still making upto 500 or 600 hunderd euro so even if you dont what them someone else will.thats what im doing this year using all freisain ai and selling off anything i dont need.

bulling heifers where i live are not making much more than 600 euro let alone fresian heifer calves , the country is full of dairy stock and with a superlevy almost a certainty next spring , stock will be cheap

Finno59

linebacker52 wrote: »

freisain heifer calves are still making upto 500 or 600 hunderd euro so even if you dont what them someone else will.thats what im doing this year using all freisain ai and selling off anything i dont need.

i know if i gave fresians to sell as replacement they'd all be bulls....for sure
Use progressive genetics

whelan1

irishh_bob wrote: »

bulling heifers where i live are not making much more than 600 euro let alone fresian heifer calves , the country is full of dairy stock and with a superlevy almost a certainty next spring , stock will be cheap

i always see friesian heifers as an investment... they mightnt be a great price now but that could change 12 months down the line... would prefer to breed to friesian than a charolaois any day

whelan1

Finno59 wrote: »

i know if i gave fresians to sell as replacement they'd all be bulls....for sure
Use progressive genetics

has anyone gotten on to pg about the advantage semen ? are they still marketing it ?

jeff greene

whelan1 wrote: »

i always see friesian heifers as an investment... they mightnt be a great price now but that could change 12 months down the line... would prefer to breed to friesian than a charolaois any day

Exactly, unless she is a poor cow, put her to AI Hol/Fr. Can't understand going to the bother of AIing and then using a beef bull, replacements are always needed. It was only a month ago, any black and white calve, maiden or cow were making big money.

Finno59

jeff greene wrote: »

Exactly, unless she is a poor cow, put her to AI Hol/Fr. Can't understand going to the bother of AIing and then using a beef bull, replacements are always needed. It was only a month ago, any black and white calve, maiden or cow were making big money.

i know replacements are worth a lot but if u get a lot more bulls than heifers which we always do you'd make more profit giving beef breeds and selling at 18 months. would always use AI. will give some fresians to the ones that had bulls last year.

keep going

linebacker52 wrote: »

freisain heifer calves are still making upto 500 or 600 hunderd euro so even if you dont what them someone else will.thats what im doing this year using all freisain ai and selling off anything i dont need.

i have 20 of them if you can get that kind of money, not in west cork you would nearly get bulling heifers for that. dry cows are more valuable than milkers

keep going

linebacker52 wrote: »

freisain heifer calves are still making upto 500 or 600 hunderd euro so even if you dont what them someone else will.thats what im doing this year using all freisain ai and selling off anything i dont need.

i have 20 of them if you can get that kind of money, not in west cork you would nearly get bulling heifers for that. dry cows are more valuable than milkers

Min

Montbeliarde?

Milky and beefy...

Min

whelan1 wrote: »

has anyone gotten on to pg about the advantage semen ? are they still marketing it ?

There is nothing on the catalogue about female advantage semen, I couldn't complain to PG as I got a lot of heifers but then I got a lot of heifers two years ago when there was none of the female advantage.

Lots of bulls next year probably...

what happen

whelan1 wrote: »

has anyone gotten on to pg about the advantage semen ? are they still marketing it ?

got a news letter from progressive genetics last week with a bill. female advantage fertility update. the first 10,000 advantage inseminations from widespread use recorded with icbf have been analysed.it shows advantage semen to be exactly the same as conventional semen in terms of conception rate. this is what we would expect based on the trial data.over the course of the summer/ autumn we will be adding to the number of scanned pregnancies and calves born in order to increase the reliability of the female bias.however we would expect this to remain above 57% female births.

bogman_bass

Finno59 wrote: »

i know if i gave fresians to sell as replacement they'd all be bulls....for sure
Use progressive genetics

in that case BWU for hereford or CGG in a blue

LZL is the murry gray that PG have.

whelan1

what happen wrote: »

got a news letter from progressive genetics last week with a bill. female advantage fertility update. the first 10,000 advantage inseminations from widespread use recorded with icbf have been analysed.it shows advantage semen to be exactly the same as conventional semen in terms of conception rate. this is what we would expect based on the trial data.over the course of the summer/ autumn we will be adding to the number of scanned pregnancies and calves born in order to increase the reliability of the female bias.however we would expect this to remain above 57% female births.

i got a bill last week but didnt get the newsletter so they are saying it is the same as conventional semen so where's our refund?

linebacker52

whelan1 wrote: »

i got a bill last week but didnt get the newsletter so they are saying it is the same as conventional semen so where's our refund?

Talk to your sales rep they gave me a sheet to fill out with details of all births this year.It hasn't worked for me but I know at least two people it has worked very well for.

jeff greene

Finno59 wrote: »

will give some fresians to the ones that had bulls last year.

Why?

Better put your best cows to FR and bottom end cows to beef, breed form to top not some notion people have of AI, don't believe the conjecture of AI = 100% bulls.

Having enough replacements is the most important thing for dairy farms, the one thing I agree with in the Jersey cross debate is the over emphasis on calf sales, get replacements first. Calves conceived today will be milking in 2014

Tipp Man

jeff greene wrote: »

Why?

Better put your best cows to FR and bottom end cows to beef, breed form to top not some notion people have of AI, don't believe the conjecture of AI = 100% bulls.

Having enough replacements is the most important thing for dairy farms, the one thing I agree with in the Jersey cross debate is the over emphasis on calf sales, get replacements first. Calves conceived today will be milking in 2014

Funny you should say that we have been considering for the last few years of breeding no replacements and buying them in. Gave it serious consideration this year. The only thing stopping us is that we have been increasing in numbers. I think once we get to our optimum number we will be using beef breeds on all cows

Rearing replacement heifers in a very expensive game

jeff greene

Tipp Man wrote: »

Funny you should say that we have been considering for the last few years of breeding no replacements and buying them in. Gave it serious consideration this year. The only thing stopping us is that we have been increasing in numbers. I think once we get to our optimum number we will be using beef breeds on all cows

Rearing replacement heifers in a very expensive game

A closed herd is important, list as long as your arm of diseases out there. It gives you control too, you can sell them as easy as beef or keep them and know their breeding etc, when I'm selling, I rarely sell my best ones, no one does.

irishh_bob

Min wrote: »

There is nothing on the catalogue about female advantage semen, I couldn't complain to PG as I got a lot of heifers but then I got a lot of heifers two years ago when there was none of the female advantage.

Lots of bulls next year probably...

the female advantage programme was an abject failure , last i heard , PG were planning to compensate farmers , i was told by a close relative of the head man at enfield that it doesnt work last december

whelan1

irishh_bob wrote: »

the female advantage programme was an abject failure , last i heard , PG were planning to compensate farmers , i was told by a close relative of the head man at enfield that it doesnt work last december

yes so why dont they just do that.....a credit note isnt really worth anything , we bought this semen in good faith

stanflt

whelan1 wrote: »

i got a bill last week but didnt get the newsletter so they are saying it is the same as conventional semen so where's our refund?

ordered 20 straws of HVA last night at 7.30 as i used the last one- got it delivered at 7.45 this morning- now thats service-and im not biased

Finno59

irishh_bob wrote: »

the female advantage programme was an abject failure , last i heard , PG were planning to compensate farmers , i was told by a close relative of the head man at enfield that it doesnt work last december

did they know why it was a failure? was it in the separation it went wrong or their theory of there being male and female sperms was false? :rolleyes:

Min

irishh_bob wrote: »

the female advantage programme was an abject failure , last i heard , PG were planning to compensate farmers , i was told by a close relative of the head man at enfield that it doesnt work last december

I was lucky but two years ago was good for lots of replacements here, last year a lot more bulls and this a lot more heifers again so the natural cycle of things more than anything else, then some seem to always have heifers and other bulls, others like to change the sex of the calf every year :pac:

The cows were probably more female advantage this year than the bulls were.
The sperm determines the sex but maybe the cow or heifer is more into deciding which sperm is accepted.

Finno59

new limousine bull oezus looks good but the figures arent reliabe yet.

cowman

Finno59 wrote: »

cant decide what breed to give the cows. dairy herd , dont need any more fresians , never had any luck with charolais , limousin bring to many days with them, belgium bule seem to be too milky, have allready given a few blacks but there .............blacks, had parthenaise in mind but ai man says there a bit leggy ??? now have blonde d'aquataine the bull jigsaw in mind , anyone any experience with either of these 2 breeds and what are ye using?

Progressive/munster are selling a Parthenaise bull caled Cambridge (CBQ). Have heard good reports about his calves, short gestation, easy calving and quick to drink! ETB is a good option for a belgian blue he is with prgressive as well...
Heres a link for the parthenaise on his figures.
http://www.icbf.com/taurus/bull_search/index.php?search_type=num&search=cbq

Finno59

cowman wrote: »

Progressive/munster are selling a Parthenaise bull caled Cambridge (CBQ). Have heard good reports about his calves, short gestation, easy calving and quick to drink! ETB is a good option for a belgian blue he is with prgressive as well...
Heres a link for the parthenaise on his figures.
http://www.icbf.com/taurus/bull_search/index.php?search_type=num&search=cbq

his figures look good all right, they've come up from what they were on 2010/11 catalogue anyway :rolleyes:

bogman_bass

I've seen some savage pedigree calves by him but I'd wait for a better calving survey before using him on dairy cows

PureClaas

Try IRX on dairy stock, he's rated in France for heifers and you should have no bother at all on 2nd or 3rd calving dairy cows maybe.

IRX is by far the best bull on any Irish AI list Sligo AI has the makings of great PT bull coming up soon too

But that statement buy the AI man saying PT's are leggy, jaysus he's some AI man is all i can say. Id be checking him for big gray ears and a tail next time he comes into the yard lad. HEHAW HEHAW

Probably another one of these egits comparing them to Jersey's lmao