Slashing Public Sector Pay

gigino

Riskymove wrote: »

so now its 'far' higher?

Yes because you "forgot" about the 18 months "gratuity" retiring public servants get and you disregard that average finishing salary in the public secrvice, because of age, increments, promotion etc is a lot higher than the averge public service salary of 47k. So average pension is worth a hell of a lot more than 23.5k a year .

Now, please answer the question :What other ( bankrupt, I dare say ) country would give each + every retiring public servant - in addition to their annual pension - a cash tax free amount equivalent to the guts of a couple of nice new apartments, built to government specifications in scenic areas, as a tip ? http://www.daft.ie/searchnew_development.daft?id=12590

Riskymove

gigino wrote: »

Yes because .......blah blah!!

give it up Jimmmy, same old badgering

sollar

One last thing on the ps pension levy, brian lenihan and his department designed the thing and he calls it a paycut.

So if some of the more anti ps posters on here want to call it a contribution then thats ok too. But i have no more to say on the matter.

sarumite

Riskymove wrote: »

give it up Jimmmy, same old badgering

While not trying to back seat mod, it's bad form in my opinion to edit somebodys post when quoting them.

Riskymove

sarumite wrote: »

While not trying to back seat mod, it's bad form in my opinion to edit somebodys post when quoting them.

Sarumite, sorry if I offended you, please feel free to report the post if you wish

MagicSean

gigino wrote: »

If social welfare was cut by 30% it would still be higher than in the north.

If public service pay was cut by 30% gross the effect after tax would be a lot smaller.

Sure it would have an effect but even if gross average public sector pay was cut by 30%, it would still be higher than in our neighbours the UK....and they still have creches, restaurants, cars...

Cutting public sector pay by 30% here would bring it close to private sector pay, which is more like the norm in most countries.

When the IMF / EU do cut government expenditure, it will be those on 80,000 and more who will suffer most.

Public sector pensions should be capped at say 40 grand, given the state of the economy. If people in the public sector want a bigger pension than that, they should save for it themselves. Its absurd some public sector retirees getting an annual pension of 120,000 and more.

I always wonder where people get these figures from.

Current Garda salary 6 years after joining €38,109
Current Constable salary six years after joining £32,703 = €37,648

Garda salary after 30% cut = €26,676

€26,676 is not greater than €37,648

Riskymove

Seanbeag1 wrote: »

I always wonder where people get these figures from.

because some people seem to believe that once the 'average' PS pay in the republic remained higher than 'average' PS pay in the North that situations like the one you put forward could not occur

gigino

Seanbeag1 wrote: »

I always wonder where people get these figures from.

www.cso.ie

They actually have statistics on Garda pay. That is part of their job. Average Garda pay ( inc allowances etc ) was 60k per year, not sure what it is now in May 2011.

gigino

Riskymove wrote: »

Sarumite, sorry if I offended you, please feel free to report the post if you wish

Riskymove, please refrain from editing somebodys post when quoting them.

RobbieTheRobber

Jaysoose wrote: »

This is my point though why are we waiting for the goverment to take action i was under the impression that the CPA was implementing change etc..

If the public service will not help themselves by embracing the alledged changes and efficiencies being brough about by the CPA and thus using the last few years to change then how are people looking in expected to have any other opinion?

Is the CPA not doing this?
Do you have evidence to suggest the CPA is not meetings its objectives?

Riskymove

gigino wrote: »

Riskymove, please refrain from editing somebodys post when quoting them.

back seat modding is bad form you know!

beeno67

P. Breathnach wrote: »

Facts would be useful.

From CSO figures we can see that there has been a recent fall in the Consumer Price Index, but the cumulative fall between 2008 and 2010 has been about 5.5%. It now seems to be going up again. Hardly earth-shaking stuff.

I am not quite sure what you mean "facts would be useful". You just provided the figures. A 5.5% drop when most of the rest of Europe had rising inflation. Thus prices in Ireland are nearer European average which was the point I was making.

I love the way you say 5.5% is hardly earth shaking stuff. If PS wages were going to be cut an additional 5.5% to take this deflation into account, I am pretty sure the earth would shatter for most PS workers on this site.

beeno67

Seanbeag1 wrote: »

I always wonder where people get these figures from.

Current Garda salary 6 years after joining €38,109

More like €42,000 before any allowances

PSNI Pay after 6 years €36,721
I always wonder where people get their figures from.

Memnoch

Working as a doctor in the public sector my take home pay is twenty four hundred euro per month. (sans overtime). That works out to around 28k per year.

Consultant pay starts at 170k (pre-tax). Not sure what their take home is.

So now you want to cut my salary by a further thirty percent?

If I go to the states tomorrow I'll be making an excess of 100k a year within 3-4 years and taxes as well as living expenses are lower there.

Most good NCHDs who can leave are already doing so. A thirty percent pay cut will, on top of what are pretty poor working conditions already, be the straw that breaks the camel's back. Or any further pay cut, for that matter.

Riskymove

beeno67 wrote: »

More like €42,000 before any allowances

PSNI Pay after 6 years €36,721
I always wonder where people get their figures from.

whichever is correct, his underlying point remains the same

a 30% cut to the Garda wage would put it well below the PSNI comparable figure

beeno67

Riskymove wrote: »

whichever is correct, his underlying point remains the same

a 30% cut to the Garda wage would put it well below the PSNI comparable figure

Depends how you look at it. It would maintain the same difference between the 2 wages at €6000. Just this time PSNI wages would be higher.

Jaysoose

Memnoch wrote: »

Working as a doctor in the public sector my take home pay is twenty four hundred euro per month. (sans overtime). That works out to around 28k per year.

Consultant pay starts at 170k (pre-tax). Not sure what their take home is.

So now you want to cut my salary by a further thirty percent?

If I go to the states tomorrow I'll be making an excess of 100k a year within 3-4 years and taxes as well as living expenses are lower there.

Most good NCHDs who can leave are already doing so. A thirty percent pay cut will, on top of what are pretty poor working conditions already, be the straw that breaks the camel's back. Or any further pay cut, for that matter.

So why dont you leave then? Fair play being a doctor but i wouldnt want you doing my books if those are the numbers being talked about.. Are we supposed to sympathise because you choose to work in the public sector when you can achieve much higher salaries elsewhere?

beeno67

Memnoch wrote: »

Working as a doctor in the public sector my take home pay is twenty four hundred euro per month. (sans overtime). That works out to around 28k per year.

Consultant pay starts at 170k (pre-tax). Not sure what their take home is.

So now you want to cut my salary by a further thirty percent?

If I go to the states tomorrow I'll be making an excess of 100k a year within 3-4 years and taxes as well as living expenses are lower there.

Most good NCHDs who can leave are already doing so. A thirty percent pay cut will, on top of what are pretty poor working conditions already, be the straw that breaks the camel's back. Or any further pay cut, for that matter.

Very selective use of figures. You ate totally ignoring the fact that if you stay in Ireland for the 3-4 years you will also earn close to 100K a tear if working the same hours in the States

Jaysoose

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

Is the CPA not doing this?
Do you have evidence to suggest the CPA is not meetings its objectives?

Do you have evidence to suggest it is?

rodento

DoesNotCompute wrote: »

Another anti-PS thread :rolleyes:

The country is still pretty expensive to live in. The cost of living still hasn't come down from 2007 levels. Deal with that first, and THEN and ONLY THEN should the govt consider slashing public sector pay.

Whats anti PS about the question:rolleyes:

All I asked is what would be the consequences of slashing the wage bill on the economy

MagicSean

beeno67 wrote: »

More like €42,000 before any allowances

PSNI Pay after 6 years €36,721
I always wonder where people get their figures from.

PSNI also get allowances afaik. In addition they start on the payscale at the moment they join whereas Gardaí dont get onto the salary scale until they have completed 18 months in the college.

Memnoch

Jaysoose wrote: »

So why dont you leave then? Fair play being a doctor but i wouldnt want you doing my books if those are the numbers being talked about.. Are we supposed to sympathise because you choose to work in the public sector when you can achieve much higher salaries elsewhere?

Sympathy? I'm not asking for sympathy.

I'm simply stating the facts because I'm a little sick about people whining about extravagant public sector pay. Well, I'm a public sector worker and I don't think my pay is all that extravagant.

I'm here because I want to be, for personal reasons. But I'm not far from the line where it's just not worth it any more.

I know a lot of talented and skilled doctors who don't have ties or families that have already left for Australia/USA/UK etc.

Though I generally don't believe in the if you pay peanuts you get monkeys philosophy there has to be a cutting off point. I don't think people should get paid stupid amounts, whatever the job, but a lot of this anger(jealousy?) is misdirected and not helpful.

I can't tell you how many of the patients in my current job tell me they couldn't understand a word of what the last two people in the job were saying. And with current working conditions for NCHDs that situation isn't going to get any better. Do you have any idea how much it costs to train a doctor?

I just wish people would try and see the broader picture for once and evaluate things in context.

We need to curb excesses yes but you also need to realise that the AVERAGE public sector worker is not nearly as cushy as you think they are.

Memnoch

beeno67 wrote: »

Very selective use of figures. You ate totally ignoring the fact that if you stay in Ireland for the 3-4 years you will also earn close to 100K a tear if working the same hours in the States

And on what are you basing this nonsensical assumption?

sollar

Memnoch wrote: »

I just wish people would try and see the broader picture for once and evaluate things in context.

We need to curb excesses yes but you also need to realise that the AVERAGE public sector worker is not nearly as cushy as you think they are.

I think beyond here and independent newspapers there really isn't as much anti ps feeling as you might imagine. I deal with the public every day in my job and nobody has said boo to me.

BTW I think the public sector should be seriously angry with the independent newspapers group, the independent and sunday independant have been stoking up anti ps feelings for over 2 years now. As a ps worker I won't forget that anyway.

beeno67

Memnoch wrote: »

And on what are you basing this nonsensical assumption?

Because, assuming you are an Intern now, you should be a second year reg in 4 years time. As a second year reg you will have a basic salary of €53K a year. Add to that the compulsory overtime, extra payments for Sunday working and what ever allowances you will still be allowed to get you will be earning at least 80k and possibly a lot closer to 100k.

Of course if you are an SHO at present you could well be an Spr in 4 years time earning a basic of €60k a year

Why do you say it is nonsensical?

Head The Wall

sollar wrote: »

One last thing on the ps pension levy, brian lenihan and his department designed the thing and he calls it a paycut.

So if some of the more anti ps posters on here want to call it a contribution then thats ok too. But i have no more to say on the matter.

Are ye conveniently avoiding the fact that you can get tax relief on one so called pay cut and not on the other pay cut. This is because they are not the same thing

Memnoch wrote: »

Working as a doctor in the public sector my take home pay is twenty four hundred euro per month. (sans overtime). That works out to around 28k per year.

Consultant pay starts at 170k (pre-tax). Not sure what their take home is.

So now you want to cut my salary by a further thirty percent?

If I go to the states tomorrow I'll be making an excess of 100k a year within 3-4 years and taxes as well as living expenses are lower there.

Most good NCHDs who can leave are already doing so. A thirty percent pay cut will, on top of what are pretty poor working conditions already, be the straw that breaks the camel's back. Or any further pay cut, for that matter.

What do you make of the hospital porters getting paid more than you?

Memnoch

beeno67 wrote: »

Because, assuming you are an Intern now, you should be a second year reg in 4 years time. As a second year reg you will have a basic salary of €53K a year. Add to that the compulsory overtime, extra payments for Sunday working and what ever allowances you will still be allowed to get you will be earning at least 80k and possibly a lot closer to 100k.

Of course if you are an SHO at present you could well be an Spr in 4 years time earning a basic of €60k a year

Why do you say it is nonsensical?

I'm not an intern. What do you think is take home pay out of 53K? I'll be willing to wager it's not a lot more than what I'm making now. As for compulsory overtime, that all depends on where you are working and how much the EWTD is being applied.

It's also nonsense to include overtime in payment calculations because then you cannot make a fair comparison of wages. Your estimates are grossly over inflated, and that is not surprising as people who seem to complain about PS sector pay seem to share these common false assumptions.

As for Spr. Do you have any idea how difficult it is to get onto the scheme in most specialties?

I know regs who are doing crazy overtime. None of them are taking away anything close to the 80k you are talking about.

Memnoch

What do you make of the hospital porters getting paid more than you?

I'm more unhappy about the gross overpayment of consultants and high level managers.

I don't believe ANY PS worker should be paid more than 120k or so (pre-tax). But then I'd also be for heavily taxing anyone making more than that, public or private.

ardmacha

Are ye conveniently avoiding the fact that you can get tax relief on one so called pay cut and not on the other pay cut. This is because they are not the same thing

Don't be ridiculous. If your pay is cut you don't have to pay tax on the amount lost.

Head The Wall

ardmacha wrote: »

Don't be ridiculous. If your pay is cut you don't have to pay tax on the amount lost.

Read it again, I said tax relief

How come you can claim tax relief on the pension levy but not on the paycut. That is my point