Circus for the school trip??

ppink

parsi wrote: »

If the OP doesn't agree with circuses then that is their call and there is nothing wrong with letting the organiser know that.

However that does raise the greater issue - is it just particular situations where there may be animal husbandry concerns that get opposed ? What about battery hens ? Battery piggeries ? Are these also going to be condemned and maybe lunchboxes trawled through to ensure that other children don't have products from those areas ?

It may seem extreme but you can't be a la carte about the whole thing. Some other parent may feel extremely strongly about the whole meat issue and bend the ear of the BOM to ensure that meat isn't allowed.

well if that was the argument than it is like saying no other child from the school should be going to the circus which is silly and not what the OP was saying.

An organised school trip should at the very least be ethical and not supporting torture.

If the school supplies lunches from battery chickens then that is something that they and the parents would have to decide on. like we all have to make that decision as to whether we eat the produce ofanimals treated like that. We also decide is we want to wear the clothes coming from sweat shops where kids make them.

parsi

ppink wrote: »

well if that was the argument than it is like saying no other child from the school should be going to the circus which is silly and not what the OP was saying.

That is what the OP was being advised to do - object, get parent council involved, send their child to school on tour day.

ppink wrote:

An organised school trip should at the very least be ethical and not supporting torture.

If the school supplies lunches from battery chickens then that is something that they and the parents would have to decide on. like we all have to make that decision as to whether we eat the produce ofanimals treated like that. We also decide is we want to wear the clothes coming from sweat shops where kids make them.

That's my point - is it only things that are easy to object to that will be objected to ?

It's easy to object to once-off events or things.

Wolfe Tone

An over the top reaction imo... I would let the kids decide themselves.


I've always enjoyed circuses especially those with animals. What you have done may result in the trip being canceled and wrecking it for all the other kids.

At the most I would simply have kept the child at home.

ppink

yes I suppose I see your point. it is hard for those of us who do not want those animals tortured further to accept that others do not have a problem with it.
for me I just dont see how anyone could not have an issue with animals being kept in containers ever waking hour apart from their performance. especially when they are intelligent and highly social beings like elephants or the like.

Lucky those like Anne the elephant: (not nice footage!) http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=68a_1301267280 are now in longleat or all the other ones from circuses who ended up in the elephant sanctuary
http://www.elephants.com/
that is where I want to see elephants! not in some silly tent in a park in Ireland when they get left out for an hour to make money.

Anyway OP I an interested to see how you got on.

parsi

ppink wrote: »

yes I suppose I see your point. it is hard for those of us who do not want those animals tortured further to accept that others do not have a problem with it.

I find it terrible that people still serve their children food produced in factories where animals are treated inhumanely .

However this isn't a game of who is more upset by what but a discussion on how far should one go if one is objecting to something and should this objection also impact on others ?

Wolfe Tone

I find it shocking that people keep budgies in cages in their houses, or fish in small tanks etc etc

ppink

parsi wrote: »

I find it terrible that people still serve their children food produced in factories where animals are treated inhumanely .

However this isn't a game of who is more upset by what but a discussion on how far should one go if one is objecting to something and should this objection also impact on others ?

True
And also surely on the responsibility of a school to think ethically when planning school trips?

There is no point in deciding that your kids are not going and giving no reason. giving a reason allows discussion and a conscencous decision.

parsi

Yep - I said that there's no harm in letting the organiser know why the OP objected.

A school tour is once a year. It's easy to be ethical for that - it's a simple choice, a once-off. May be used to salve the conscience (not saying that this applies to the OP).

However should the school be ethical every day - ensuring that the uniforms aren't produced by child labour , that the food bought by parents is free range (or whatever) etc ?

There isn't any easy or simple answer to this.

ppink

Its like a poster said way back somewhere that a stand has to be taken somewhere. Something is your limit.

you are right though- no easy answer to the overall!

Froggy7

Thanks for your comments, suggestions and opinions.

Here's an update:

- My kids are not going on the outing. I will bring them somewhere else for fun and to make up for it. We had a discussion about it and, yes, they were a bit disappointed but they understood my position and agreed with it. They are now happy to go somewhere else. (And I think it's part of their education to learn how to deal with disappointment, even if I bring them to the cinema or park instead).

- The principal totally understands my letter and concerns, she feels really bad about her choice but the other kids will go on the tour anyway, as it is too late to find an alternative. However, she plans to raise the question with the kids in class after the trip and to do a project about exotic animals being brought in Europe, so I am quite happy that there will be a positive outcome to all this.

I will not go into a big debate here about battery animals, eating meat, PETA, etc. I respect everybody's opinions here and wish you the very best in trying to lead your lives according to your principles. That's what I am trying to do too, while also trying to keep an open mind about other people's ideas (thanks for sharing them) and trying to inject a little bit of ethical thinking into my kids.

I will leave you with this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izE4_Jd2dOw&feature=related

parsi

That seems to be an effective solution - your message has been received and is going to be developed further in class. Also good to see that your children are receiving a good life lesson but still not losing out in terms of having a treat activity.

thesimpsons

anyone else think that the idea of a trip to circus was just a lazy school tour anyway - nothing even remotely educational in it. I know that tours are fun things there should be some element of education involved surely if the school is sanctioning it. All I can see anyone learning in a trip to a circus is seeing animals in a false environment performing tricks. There are so many other places and things they could have done with the kids (nature walks, visit to farm, orientieering, team building exercises, etc) where they would still have a load of fun and pick up a few skills as well. I've notice in recent years that the tours are becoming less and less even pretending to be a little educational.

I wouldn't agree with a circus visit for school either - we decided years ago that we wouldn't take our kids to circus after our eldest got upset at seeing the size of the animals cages and conditions but they have been to plenty of zoos and open parks that at least do try to simulate a natural environment and participate in breeding programmes.

my youngest is thinking of not going on her tour this year - they are going swimming in local pool where they've gone for years on school swimming lessons and McDs afterwards. I've agreed if she doesn't want to go she can have a fun day of her choice instead. School tours aren't compulsory for either the school to provide or the child to attend, and we feel this was a particularly lazy idea costing far more than it should do.

silja

parsi wrote: »

However should the school be ethical every day - ensuring that the uniforms aren't produced by child labour , that the food bought by parents is free range (or whatever) etc ?

There is a difference between the school and individual parents. For example, a parent who feels strongly about battery hens may write to the school to ask them that only free range eggs/ meat be used in school meals. The school may not comply, but I think it would be reasonable to ask. But if the same parent wrote to the school asking them to write to all other parents asking those parents not to use battery hen eggs in privately brought-from-home lunches, that would be rediculous.

Bubs99

I agree with the OP. I think circus's with animals is cruel and wrong.

I think you should go talk to the principle and the PA and explain your views and objections and do the same with the kids.

I dont think you should let them go and instead bring them to the cinema, bowling, shopping or Fota Island where the animals are let walk free on fresh green land.

I think the kids will enjoy having a laugh watching the little monkeys rob ice cream lollies and cones from people. They do it all the time, and also feeing the giant geese and so much more.

Good luck.

byhookorbycrook

silja wrote: »

There is a difference between the school and individual parents. For example, a parent who feels strongly about battery hens may write to the school to ask them that only free range eggs/ meat be used in school meals. The school may not comply, but I think it would be reasonable to ask. But if the same parent wrote to the school asking them to write to all other parents asking those parents not to use battery hen eggs in privately brought-from-home lunches, that would be rediculous.

School meals??No such thing in Ireland in primary,anyhow.

thesimpsons

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

School meals??No such thing in Ireland in primary,anyhow.

yes there are - disadvantaged schools get free lunches. I know of at least 2 schools who definitely get them and have often heard of others.

byhookorbycrook

Disadvantaged schools get rolls and things, not full meals, afaik. Funding is from year to year I think, so no school dinners like in the U.K.Anyway, back on track!