Non CI memebers - Leisure Insurance Surcharge

ktz84 · 10-05-2011 8:15am #1

Can someone tell me what the CI charge to clubs is for providing a one day licence for people riding leisure events who are not members of CI.

I ask because I noticed that there can be a big disparity in the cost charged. I've seen up to 10Euro being asked for on a 10Euro entry fee in the South when all the events that I've ridden this year in the North have charged £1 on £10 entry fee.

penexpers · 10-05-2011 8:34am

It should be no more than 10% of the entry fee. I think this is a new CI rule for this year, maybe morana can confirm.

Morgan · 10-05-2011 8:53am

The pricing structure is as follows:

Cycling Ireland members must be offered a 10% discount on the standard entry fee for non-charity events;

Event Organisers will be charged as followed (this is in addition to a club/promotions group affiliation fee):

Where Cycling Ireland members are offered a discount on the entry fee – no charge;

Where no discount is offered to Cycling Ireland members:

€0.50 per participant up to a maximum of €150 for events with less than 500 participants;

€0.50 per participant up to a maximum of €200 for events with between 500 – 1,500 participants;

€0.50 per participant up to a maximum of €300 for events with over 1,500 participants;

For each of the above a €1 rebate will be provided for each new member recruited to Cycling Ireland from the event, up to a maximum of €150.

From here:
http://www.cyclingireland.ie/getattachment/62a301d4-59ca-4dd8-af5e-2c871e3f4d66/Cycling_Ireland_Leisure_Events_Guidance.aspx

C3PO · 10-05-2011 9:18am

Glad you cleared that up Morgan! :rolleyes:

Morgan · 10-05-2011 9:20am

I had to read it three times...

ktz84 · 10-05-2011 9:46am

Thanks for the info.

So I would be right in feeling that I would be being ripped in participating in these events.

Charges of upto 1000% over and above CI fees seems unjustifable to me.

C3PO · 10-05-2011 9:48am

ktz84 wrote: »

Thanks for the info.

So I would be right in feeling that I would be being ripped in participating in these events.

Charges of upto 1000% over and above CI fees seems unjustifable to me.

Of course if you just joined CI!

Morgan · 10-05-2011 10:07am

The new guidelines for leisure events were brought in last June and not all event organisers may be aware of them.

Up 'til then, leisure events were run under the same rules as races with day-licences required for non-CI members, costing €10 (or €20? can't remember).

ktz84 · 10-05-2011 10:17am

I could but CI are clearly saying what they think is an appropriate fee to cover the cost of insuring non members therefore if I look at those costs there is no way I could ever ride enough events to cover the cost of the CI leisure levy.

The fact that clubs try to force me into membership by sticking their hand in only serves to annoy me rather gain my support for their event. Their loss.

ktz84 · 10-05-2011 10:26am

Morgan wrote: »

The new guidelines for leisure events were brought in last June and not all event organisers may be aware of them.

Up 'til then, leisure events were run under the same rules as races with day-licences required for non-CI members, costing €10 (or €20? can't remember).

I must admit that this did occur to me before when I had noticed that open races had a £10 one day licence fee but had forgotten about. That may well be where the issue has arisen however surely when they are doing their returns to CI surely somebody would notice that they have collected way too much money so anybody running events after June of last year should have no excuse as they will already have gone through the process at least once.

I will be watching

penexpers · 10-05-2011 10:27am

ktz84 wrote: »

The fact that clubs try to force me into membership by sticking their hand in only serves to annoy me rather gain my support for their event. Their loss.

I don't think they are trying to force you into joining - they are only making use of the insurance cover provided by CI.

lescol · 10-05-2011 11:01am

Page 33 of the CyclingIreland 2011 Yearbook states that one day licence fees for leisure is €10.00/£9 for non members. Maybe clubs are going by this.

ktz84 · 10-05-2011 11:10am

penexpers wrote: »

I don't think they are trying to force you into joining - they are only making use of the insurance cover provided by CI.

Of course they if they are charging way in excess of the actual costs to themselves from CI.

Eg It would only take 3 events to cover the costs of joining CI where a club runs a leisure event charging 10Euro to non members whereas I would have ride nearly 30 of them if a 10Euro event charged in line with CI charging structure.

So if I wanted to ride several of those events where charging is high to non members then I would effectively be forced into joining CI. I don't see how there can be an argument on that point.

corkchef · 10-05-2011 11:22am

it is all about insuring you during an event. and for the price the cover is pretty decent

i joined two years ago, it is only €20. i figure i save enough by entering events. but the real thing is the insurance cover. it is by far the cheapest you can get. you are insured for all events you enter, all travel to and from events and any training rides you do. so if your wearing lycra.....you are good to go. besides you become a member of the UCI and what rider doesn't want that? and you get a neato yearbook.

well worth the beans!

ednwireland · 10-05-2011 11:25am

corkchef wrote: »

it is all about insuring you during an event. and for the price the cover is pretty decent

i joined two years ago, it is only €20. i figure i save enough by entering events. but the real thing is the insurance cover. it is by far the cheapest you can get. you are insured for all events you enter, all travel to and from events and any training rides you do. so if your wearing lycra.....you are good to go. besides you become a member of the UCI and what rider doesn't want that? and you get a neato yearbook.

well worth the beans!

you dont get a yearbook if you join a club though

corkchef · 10-05-2011 11:27am

ednwireland wrote: »

you dont get a yearbook if you join a club though

how much does it cost to join a club? do you become part of UCI?

ednwireland · 10-05-2011 11:37am

corkchef wrote: »

how much does it cost to join a club? do you become part of UCI?

you pay the same cycling ireland fee and then club membership on top

penexpers · 10-05-2011 11:41am

ktz84 wrote: »

Of course they if they are charging way in excess of the actual costs to themselves from CI.

Eg It would only take 3 events to cover the costs of joining CI where a club runs a leisure event charging 10Euro to non members whereas I would have ride nearly 30 of them if a 10Euro event charged in line with CI charging structure.

So if I wanted to ride several of those events where charging is high to non members then I would effectively be forced into joining CI. I don't see how there can be an argument on that point.

CI leisure membership is only €10 for the first year and €20 for every year after (there may be an extra charge to join a club but you don't have to join a club).

I don't think clubs are maliciously charging more than they should for the one day license, I think it's just down to confusion over the rules (it has been €10 for a one day license for a good few years).

ktz84 · 10-05-2011 11:43am

Ok it obvious now where the problem exists. It's with CI contradictory info to clubs. Any wonder things are confused.

As regards the cost of CI leisure licence. Well I don't think it is expensive. It certainly isn't but for me it offers no real benefits as I'm a longtime CTC member so I already have 3rd party insurance so I have no incentive to join CI and these extras costs being imposed really rile me but I realise I'm probably pretty unique amongst most people on here.

Nevertheless CI should surely should be informing clubs when they are doing their return to CI that the have sent too much money in assuming the rules as originally given are the correct version and not the handbook version. Are we saying that CI are happily accepting the extra donations without questioning why?

ktz84 · 10-05-2011 11:45am

penexpers wrote: »

CI leisure membership is only €10 for the first year and €20 for every year after (there may be an extra charge to join a club but you don't have to join a club).

I don't think clubs are maliciously charging more than they should for the one day license, I think it's just down to confusion over the rules (it has been €10 for a one day license for a good few years).

Yep agreed. I was just trying to get to the bottom of why some clubs were charging so little and some charging so much. Looks like we have gotten there

morana · 10-05-2011 2:05pm

ktz84 wrote: »

As regards the cost of CI leisure licence. Well I don't think it is expensive. It certainly isn't but for me it offers no real benefits as I'm a longtime CTC member so I already have 3rd party insurance so I have no incentive to join CI and these extras costs being imposed really rile me but I realise I'm probably pretty unique amongst most people on here.

If you join you get reduced entries in many leisure events around the country. so the initial €10 or €20 is recouped in avery short period of time. I will read this thread in full later and come back with clarification if you wish. I am not familiar with the CTC insurance but ours is very good coverage abroad, training, racing, bringing guests out on club events, riding with the ivca etc.

Non CI memebers - Leisure Insurance Surcharge

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