On the subject of climbing ... (w/kg and all that)

Keep_Her_Lit

morana wrote: »

Good stuff! you being 92kg rider going up it at that speed I think I will turn up !

National Hill Climb Champ at 92kg!? I thought that was too good to be true. Seems he's roughly 20kg shy of that
https://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dc2q4gw3_18ffhthkcj
Are there any out there (amateur or pro) in the 90kg+ category who can worry the natural climbers when the going gets tough?

ryan_sherlock

Keep_Her_Lit wrote: »

National Hill Climb Champ at 92kg!? I thought that was too good to be true. Seems he's roughly 20kg shy of that
https://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dc2q4gw3_18ffhthkcj
Are there any out there (amateur or pro) in the 90kg+ category who can worry the natural climbers when the going gets tough?

In the races I have done, I have not seen anyone that size getting over the hard(er) climbs in the front group of the climber types are pushing it. 80kg, yeah - but not 90+. The 1-2 minute kicker climbs are fine, just the longer ones... Watts/Kg pays out lots

Keep_Her_Lit

ryan_sherlock wrote: »

In the races I have done, I have not seen anyone that size getting over the hard(er) climbs in the front group of the climber types are pushing it. 80kg, yeah - but not 90+. The 1-2 minute kicker climbs are fine, just the longer ones... Watts/Kg pays out lots

Thanks. Power-to-weight ratios seem to be higher for the lighter competitors alright. It's interesting that this seems to apply across the board, taking in completely different sports such as Olympic Weightlifting.

On the subject of climbing, I wonder if you're familiar with the route and start/finish points of the Bohernabreena hillclimb, as used by the Orwell/Lucan/IRC/Tiernans/UCD clubs in their league. As National Champ, it would be interesting to know just how fast you can blast your way up that climb. It’s a timely enquiry, given that the club hillclimb is scheduled for this Thursday (12th). Maybe you can give it a lash in training when you have a chance and let us know. I think the best club time in recent years is slightly over 13 minutes (I’m sure someone will correct me if I’m wrong).

Here’s the route:
http://www.mapmyride.com/routes/view/16793119


[I won't tell you what my "fastest" time is ]

ryan_sherlock

Keep_Her_Lit wrote: »

On the subject of climbing, I wonder if you're familiar with the route and start/finish points of the Bohernabreena hillclimb, as used by the Orwell/Lucan/IRC/Tiernans/UCD clubs in their league. As National Champ, it would be interesting to know just how fast you can blast your way up that climb. It’s a timely enquiry, given that the club hillclimb is scheduled for this Thursday (12th). Maybe you can give it a lash in training when you have a chance and let us know. I think the best club time in recent years is slightly over 13 minutes (I’m sure someone will correct me if I’m wrong).

Here’s the route:
http://www.mapmyride.com/routes/view/16793119


[I won't tell you what my "fastest" time is ]

I know the climb a little, I have not gone hard over it but have ridden it a few times. 13minutes gives a VAM of about 1333m/hr. Using a VAM to W/kg conversion (based on grade - 6.6%) I get that 13 minutes took roughly 5W/Kg... Well within my range. But then you don't know road surface and at the moment there are massive headwinds on the climb which would slow you down a lot.

Sure maybe I'll drop along on Thursday

DirkVoodoo

ryan_sherlock wrote: »

I know the climb a little, I have not gone hard over it but have ridden it a few times. 13minutes gives a VAM of about 1333m/hr. Using a VAM to W/kg conversion (based on grade - 6.6%) I get that 13 minutes took roughly 5W/Kg... Well within my range. But then you don't know road surface and at the moment there are massive headwinds on the climb which would slow you down a lot.

Sure maybe I'll drop along on Thursday

Someone said yesterday the "back road" has just been resurfaced.

Keep_Her_Lit

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

Someone said yesterday the "back road" has just been resurfaced.

Yes, most of it has, though not the lower section (unless it has also been done within the last week). The worst of the winter damage is gone and it is certainly a lot nicer to climb and a lot safer to descend. You'd still want to exercise caution on the way back down where it passes from the new to the old surface, as it is still a bit rough there.

Good luck to all who are competing on Thursday - it's a real gasp-fest

montac

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

Someone said yesterday the "back road" has just been resurfaced.

I was up there a few weeks ago. The first part of the 'back road' has not been resurfaced yet, but after around 100m or so, it has a nice new surface. Certainly better than the assault course it was last year!

ryan_sherlock

Keep_Her_Lit wrote: »

On the subject of climbing, I wonder if you're familiar with the route and start/finish points of the Bohernabreena hillclimb, as used by the Orwell/Lucan/IRC/Tiernans/UCD clubs in their league.

I rode up the climb (tempo type effort) today into a strong headwind. Is the climb longer than your mapmyride link? I 5.5km with 360m of climb => 6.6%. A pretty long undulating one alright!

It puts the 13 minute record into context - was it that course? Was it set with a strong tail wind? It would take a VAM of 1661 to do that - on that type of hill, and that grade, it is a LOT. 6.25W/Kg (if it was a constant climb) - probably closer to 6.5W/kg in reality!

Anyway, here is a strava link for the climb I did: http://app.strava.com/rides/541032#8178131


This is how I do the VAM -> W/Kg conversion. It is roughly right: http://www.squidoo.com/vam

Lumen

Something's wrong there.

Here are my stats for last years interclub hillclimb:

Time Riding: 17:00
Distance (km): 4.5
Speed (kph): 16.0
Power (watts): 286
Heart Rate (bpm): 178

Map.

Usually my target is Ryan's time + 50%. :pac:

niceonetom

Looks like you went a bit too far up the hill, Ryan. From what I remember the finish line last year seemed pretty arbitrary - I don't remember there being any great change in grade or any obvious other landmark. There might have been a pole or a change in surface maybe. If it's been resurfaced then it might be harder again to find it precisely. Seems like if you want a direct comparison you'll simply have to pop along on Thursday evening.

@Lumen - about what did you weigh for that time last year? And for w/kg purposes here is weight taken to be rider+bike etc. or just rider weight?

This is all off topic now. Perhaps it could be pruned out to its own thread?

manwithaplan

MMR route is 4.5m with 289m of ascent, which corresponds with Lumen's stats. Looking at the satellite pictures, the two routes seem to start in more or less the same place but Ryan's finishes a km further up than the club route.

ryan_sherlock

manwithaplan wrote: »

MMR route is 4.5m with 289m of ascent, which corresponds with Lumen's stats. Looking at the satellite pictures, the two routes seem to start in more or less the same place but Ryan's finishes a km further up than the club route.

That makes sense... Why does the climb stop 1km early though? The last km is reasonably steep and pretty constant. I guess, back in the day, the road surface was bad or something.

Oh, the surface is great for climbing all the way.

It's actually really pretty up there, not a road I'm on very often... (Last time was for the National MTB Marathon Champs a few years ago)

Beasty

niceonetom wrote: »

This is all off topic now. Perhaps it could be pruned out to its own thread?

Done

Lumen

niceonetom wrote: »

@Lumen - about what did you weigh for that time last year? And for w/kg purposes here is weight taken to be rider+bike etc. or just rider weight?

Maybe 69kg. W/kg is generally done on naked rider weight for willy waving purposes or rider+bike+clothing for modelling purposes. Neat.

Results from last year with some extra stats:

https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?hl=en&hl=en&key=0Ai2vrstyOUEKdGJ6ZWw2amYzcFd6T0gzV082alNNQ3c&single=true&gid=0&output=html

Thread from last year...

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055911241

DirkVoodoo

The finish was "marked" last year by a gravel section to the right of the road where cars were pulled in. It's the only sort of break in the ditch up the right side of the road so it's sort of easy to spot.

Was up that way with Aidan earlier, the new surface is really nice but there is a bad patch on it with a steel cover, it's marked by an orange cone but you wouldn't want to hit it at speed.

Keep_Her_Lit

ryan_sherlock wrote: »

I rode up the climb (tempo type effort) today into a strong headwind. Is the climb longer than your mapmyride link?

I lifted the link off the Orwell website. Those guys never make mistakes - so you can take it that the start/finish points are accurately marked - you just went further than you needed to!

Here's the finish in Google Maps:



[Disclaimer: fairly sure that's it but not 100% sure!]

I 5.5km with 360m of climb => 6.6%. A pretty long undulating one alright!

It puts the 13 minute record into context - was it that course? Was it set with a strong tail wind? It would take a VAM of 1661 to do that - on that type of hill, and that grade, it is a LOT. 6.25W/Kg (if it was a constant climb) - probably closer to 6.5W/kg in reality!

Anyway, here is a strava link for the climb I did: http://app.strava.com/rides/541032#8178131

This is how I do the VAM -> W/Kg conversion. It is roughly right: http://www.squidoo.com/vam

Thanks for you feedback. All very interesting.

Keep_Her_Lit

Keep_Her_Lit wrote: »

I think the best club time in recent years is slightly over 13 minutes

I thought I should double check this, since Ryan went to the trouble of cycling the route and reporting back. 13:44 is the best time I could find recorded.

On foot of that research, here's a summary of Bohernabreena hillclimb results for the years 2007, 2009 & 2010. I haven't managed to dig up the results for 2008. As for 2011, well, maybe one or more Boardsies can place an entry in that row after tomorrow evening ...

Bohernabreena|Scratch|Semi-Scratch|Semi-Limit|Limit|Women
2007|14:57 (Orwell)|14:49 (Lucan)|15:53 (Orwell)|17:51 (Orwell)|17:20 (Lucan)
2008|n/a|n/a|n/a|n/a|n/a
2009|13:44 (Lucan)|15:28 (Lucan)|15:44 (Lucan)|16:13 (Orwell)|18:14 (Lucan)
2010|14:31 (St. Tiernan's)|15:07 (Usher)|15:32 (Orwell)|16:10 (Orwell)|17:31 (Lucan)
2011|???|???|???|???|???

ryan_sherlock

Keep_Her_Lit wrote: »

I lifted the link off the Orwell website. Those guys never make mistakes - so you can take it that the start/finish points are accurately marked - you just went further than you needed to!

Here's the finish in Google Maps:



[Disclaimer: fairly sure that's it but not 100% sure!]

Thanks for you feedback. All very interesting.

Ahh, that looks like the turn-off into the forest that we used in the Nationals a few years ago - I know it. There is a forest road on your right, then a few hundred meters later, this turn off to the left - I guess that is the finish.

Diarmuid

Who did 13:44 in 2009? Frank Billings I guess. My money's on him again this year. That's a savage time especially when you consider the times in all the other cats to be lower than 2010

Keep_Her_Lit

Diarmuid wrote: »

Who did 13:44 in 2009? Frank Billings I guess. My money's on him again this year. That's a savage time especially when you consider the times in all the other cats to be lower than 2010

Yes, it was indeed Flying Frank. He also won it in 2007 as a Semi-Scratch rider.

Orwell Vet Stephen McNally also posted a very impressive 14:15 in 2009, placing him second behind Frank.

Morrisseeee

Slightly off topic but I'm sure I read somewhere that Usher are running/organising the National Hill Climb Championship this year, I think it's on the Fri 26th August, I'm just wondering what climb they will use ? might it be this one ?

buffalo

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

Was up that way with Aidan earlier, the new surface is really nice but there is a bad patch on it with a steel cover, it's marked by an orange cone but you wouldn't want to hit it at speed.

Not much danger of speed going up the hill anyway.

edit: wtf? wrong thread.

Beasty

Club League posts moved here

Beasty