A pain in the ar...ms

corblimey

Can anyone diagnose a problem I'm having with my bike? After about 30mins of cycling (mostly on the hoods), both my hands are pretty much asleep, the left one worse than the right one. I shake them about a bit, take them off the bars and after a min or so of pins and needles, they're fine again. I assume this is because the bars are too far away from my body, so I rotated the bars up a notch or 2 hoping that would help, but it hasn't and now I get a pain in my wrist if I use the straight bar of the bar (I assume because I'm sort of locking my hands in an upward position).

The upshot is that after 30mins cycling, I just can't get comfortable. I'm constantly moving from hoods to straight bit (is there a name for this?) to the corner section, and sometimes (but rarely) down into the drops. When I get home, my arms are in bits. It doesn't take long to recover, but it's starting to put me off.

I think I need to get my bike professionally fitted, but I don't know anywhere in Cork city or environs that would do that, or even if it's the best solution. The seat is as close to the bars as possible, and completely level, the bars are, as I say, tilted upwards. So is it just a matter of continually adjusting the seat, bars and whatnot until I get comfortable?

Mint Sauce

corblimey wrote: »

Can anyone diagnose a problem I'm having with my bike? After about 30mins of cycling (mostly on the hoods), both my hands are pretty much asleep, the left one worse than the right one. I shake them about a bit, take them off the bars and after a min or so of pins and needles, they're fine again. I assume this is because the bars are too far away from my body, so I rotated the bars up a notch or 2 hoping that would help, but it hasn't and now I get a pain in my wrist if I use the straight bar of the bar (I assume because I'm sort of locking my hands in an upward position).

The upshot is that after 30mins cycling, I just can't get comfortable. I'm constantly moving from hoods to straight bit (is there a name for this?) to the corner section, and sometimes (but rarely) down into the drops. When I get home, my arms are in bits. It doesn't take long to recover, but it's starting to put me off.

I think I need to get my bike professionally fitted, but I don't know anywhere in Cork city or environs that would do that, or even if it's the best solution. The seat is as close to the bars as possible, and completely level, the bars are, as I say, tilted upwards. So is it just a matter of continually adjusting the seat, bars and whatnot until I get comfortable?

Do you wear cycling gloves. Some offer padding/cushioning around the heals of the palms, where there are a fww nerves and blood vessels going through. The pressure on that area could be an explanation for the pins and needles.

Tenzor07

You don't mention if you wear gloves or not?

A good pair of padded gloves should help such as the Specialized Body Geometry range: http://www.specialized.com/us/en/bc/SBCEqProduct.jsp?spid=54048&menuItemId=0&eid=1366

corblimey

I normally do wear gloves, but left them at home last night to see if it made any difference. It didn't, although the feeling of pins and needles didn't last as long as it usually does

ETA: There are mine: http://vccycles.com/bicyccles-accesories/272-altura-progel-asymetrix-mitt.html

Plastik

Sitting too close to the handlebars and subsequently supporting too much weight on your arms as opposed to on the saddle?

corblimey

Plastik wrote: »

Sitting too close to the handlebars and subsequently supporting too much weight on your arms as opposed to on the saddle?

Sitting too close? I didn't even consider that. I thought my original problem was sitting too far away and so I'd be leaning right forward and end up leaning on my arms. I can't fathom how sitting too close would cause the same issue?

seamus

Your gloves are too tight, possibly. Has happened to me in the past when I wore liners underneath gloves which were already pretty snug. When you buy gloves the gut instinct is to get something as snug as possible to give yourself the most dexterity. However, tight gloves will restrict blood flow, then leaning on the bars restricts it further. That they didn't stay dead as long without the gloves lends some support to my theory.

It does also take a little while to get used to longer rides. Your left hand naturally goes dead quicker because it's doing less moving than your right.

Lumen

You need to think clearly about what you are trying to achieve.

If you want to reduce the weight on your hands you'll need to move your centre of mass backwards over the the bottom bracket. This is a significant set up change. Or just pedal harder.

If you want to reduce the effect of the weight on your hands, look at hood angle, bar tape, padded gloves, etc.

Don't just grin and bear it, you could do yourself damage.

corblimey

Lumen, I have no idea what I'm trying to achieve to be honest. I want to stop the dead-hand and pins and needles, whether that's caused by the weight or the "effect" of the weight, I have no idea.

jimbobaloobob

Pressure on the ulna nerves
It's directly related to your handle bar position, which in turn could be related to your position of saddle.
Where do you go cycling? Solo or group?

corblimey

I go on my own, not yet up to any sort of speed and fitness level that I'd feel comfortable in a group.

I think I need to get somebody to take a long hard look at my sitting position, and how I ride, and make small necessay adjustments. I doubt my lbs would be bothered helping me out with this, but I'm not sure where else to turn.

jimbobaloobob

Where are you based?

corblimey

jimbobaloobob wrote: »

Where are you based?

Cork, just outside the city?

polariz

Plastik wrote: »

Sitting too close to the handlebars and subsequently supporting too much weight on your arms as opposed to on the saddle?

+1 ..I had a similar experience when I moved my saddle forward 1cm recently. Try moving your saddle back a bit. To judge how far back, as a rough guide, the hard bone of your knee should be over the pedal axis when in the 3-9 o'clock position.
It's also worth mentioning, your arms should not be locked when you're riding. You should be using your core to support your weight, not your arms.. a correct saddle position should encourage this. If the saddle seems in the right place and you can't reach the bars comfortably you could try a shorter handlebar stem..

corblimey

I believe my seat is in the right place, but I'll check it again before tonight's ride. I know it's at the right height (leg slightly bent when at full extension), so excuse my ignorance, but wouldn't a shorter stem just put the bars lower down and so further away from me?

macnab

corblimey wrote: »

Sitting too close? I can't fathom how sitting too close would cause the same issue?

Stand up straight in front of a mirror and turn to the side. Look at yourself in the mirror. When standing straight your head, hands, seat and feet are all fairly close to being in line with each other. Now bend over at the waist. Notice that not only has your head moved to a position ahead of your feet, but your rear end has moved behind your feet. If this were not the case, you would fall forward. Your seat moves back when you bend at the waist to keep you in balance.

Taken from: http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/fitting.htm

polariz

corblimey wrote: »

I believe my seat is in the right place, but I'll check it again before tonight's ride. I know it's at the right height (leg slightly bent when at full extension), so excuse my ignorance, but wouldn't a shorter stem just put the bars lower down and so further away from me?

Unless your stem is set up at a very steep angle then no, a shorter stem will bring the bars closer (with a minimal drop in height). Shorter could be as little as 1cm. It really is trial and error.. saddle position, stem length and your own flexibility

corblimey

Yeah, I think I need to get professional help (for this but also for so much more ), but I'll mention the stem thing aswell. So is this something the average lbs should be able to help me with, or do I need to find a pro?

Lemag

jimbobaloobob wrote: »

Pressure on the ulna nerves
It's directly related to your handle bar position, which in turn could be related to your position of saddle.
Where do you go cycling? Solo or group?

If the ulnar nerve were pinched this could be noticed by numbness/pins and needles sensation along the outside of the hand and along the outside of the little and ring finger but the rest of the hand wouldn't experience these resulting sensations. A quick fix could be an anti-inflamitory. Other than that, the nerve might free itself with time or need a very minor operation to free it. Of course, the sensible thing to do would be to consult a doctor.

corblimey

Lemag wrote: »

If the ulnar nerve were pinched this could be noticed by numbness/pins and needles sensation along the outside of the hand and along the outside of the little and ring finger but the rest of the hand wouldn't experience these resulting sensations. A quick fix could be an anti-inflamitory. Other than that, the nerve might free itself with time or need a very minor operation to free it. Of course, the sensible thing to do would be to consult a doctor.

It's definitely the whole hand, and not localised to any one area.

RV

+1 to practically everything!
I think that you may be absorbing too much weight on your hands and thereby ‘pinching’ the ulnar nerve near your wrist joint as suggested. You could address this in a number of ways - among them; getting a bike fit and repositioning yourself on the bike; wearing the gloves with the gel that will help absorb the bumps; putting more weight on bigger muscles like your quads that can handle it better; building your core muscles; using a different hand position; alternating hand position more frequently; using a different size handlebar grip by adding a layer under the tape and so on. Worth remembering is that the numbness came on gradually and even if you stop will only disappear gradually. Nerves are slow to regenerate/repair – if at all. Different things work for different folk so it’s hard to prove scientifically which individual strategy tipped the balance. All are cheap and easy and all are likely to help. Just be patient!

Lemag

corblimey wrote: »

It's definitely the whole hand, and not localised to any one area.

Grand. Only a qualified doctor/physio ought to diagnose your problem however, it'd be no harm to go along with some of the suggestions here to see if the problem is alleviated. Varying your hand positions throughout your ride might help also (don't think that this was suggested yet).

jimbobaloobob

I understand what your saying lemag however I'd be reluctant to advise anyone on anti inflammatories as a first resort.

Lumen

jimbobaloobob wrote: »

I'd be reluctant to advise anyone on anti inflammatories as a first resort.

Cycling on anti-inflammatories is a recipe for long term injury.

RV

corblimey wrote: »

It's definitely the whole hand, and not localised to any one area.

Oops - missed this bit which suggests its not the ulnar nerve, but there may be still nerve involvement, perhaps from the neck/shoulder. I still think the positional adjustments of your hands are likely to help as would developing supporting muscles.

martyc5674

Do you spend lots of hours on a computer???
Could be a RSI to ulnar and median nerves...ever get the dead hand in the middle of the night??

Lemag

jimbobaloobob wrote: »

I understand what your saying lemag however I'd be reluctant to advise anyone on anti inflammatories as a first resort.

Lumen wrote: »

Cycling on anti-inflammatories is a recipe for long term injury.

Rather than suggesting a solution to the OP's problem my intention was actually to respond to jimbobaloobob's post and to indicate, more specifically, symptoms of a trapped ulnar nerve and how they could be alleviated. Given that this is a cycling forum it was rather clumsy of me to do so here and it could easily have been misinturpreted as a suggested solution to the OP's condition.

thebouldwhacker

Just to pin it down. The pins and needles and pain go soon after you stop cycling, that to me sounds like your position is wrong and is causing a lack of blood to go to your arms. Obvious I know but this means to me that you need to start moving things to a more relaxed riding shape.
The pain in your wrists from using the flat bar sounds very much like you are putting too much weight/pressure on them. Again this sounds like your position is wrong. These seem to show that you have to lean too much to reach the bars. Make sure your elbows are comfortably bent while cycling. Also many people bend their wrists so that their hand to arm shape is in a L shape,

(like the image on the right here)

with a sharp bend in their wrists ie having their clenched hand pulled/shoved all the way back. This is wrong as they are almost trying to dislocate their wrists ( with an open hand this is actually a judo hold). Instead the arm and back of the hand should be straight and flush with a straight wrist.

[Embedded Image Removed] like this

(So your arms are like this, ie fairy straight wrists, slightly bent arms)



Therefore the pressure travels the arm, through the wrist and hands and onto the bar (instead of the wrist taking some of the pressure and road vibration).
If you ride with bent wrists try this, it may help the pain and could well contribute to the pins and needles.

Hope this helps somewhat

Joeyde

I had a lot of weight on my hands on my new bike and looked at the setup, my saddle was tipped forward a little and I was leaning forward onto my hands. They got very uncomfortable.

I tipped the saddle horizontal or up very slightly. Much better and I can lift both hands off the bars easily when I cycling. Much more comfortable and stable!

Worth a check before looking at everything else, but Id say its a setup problem alright.

tassajara

Some excellent suggestions here, but I would also suggest checking the angle of your saddle. It might be tipping you slightly too far forward and causing you to put too much of your body weight onto your wrists.

If that doesn't work or isn't relevant, look at getting different gloves and a new stem. Again, it's worth playing about with different length stems.

From what I remember from pinching the ulnar nerve in my right hand, it was only my ring and little fingers which hurt.

corblimey

Spent a little time this evening adjusting the bars back to close to horizontal - still need a little bit of a dip upwards to get to the hoods comfortably. Also tilted the seat up a notch, so will see if that makes any major diff on my spin tomorrow. I guess the good thing is I know that things start happening pretty much on schedule on the 30min mark, so if I can go the full hour or close to it, then I know I'm going in the right direction.

Cheers all