iphone 4 vs other smart phones (newbie)

cookie1977

It needs Blackberry servers in place but it certainly doesn't need different infrastructure in the way you talk about. They're GSM HSDPA devices like many other smart phones. I still dont follow what you're talking about. Can you explain a bit more?

srsly78

I edited my post to explain it a bit better. Yes all devices use HSDPA, but this is a software/routing problem. If your Blackberry works perfectly then this should give a BIG HINT to 3 engineers, but 3 refuse to acknowledge the issue at all.

cookie1977

The blackberry servers play no part in the handover between 2g and 3g so I still dont think you're correct in saying it affects all devices.

srsly78

You are missing the part where you are moving between vodafone and 3, so yes it makes a difference. Do you use vodafone BB server one minute and 3 the next? They likely have something special setup. Ask any engineer and they will tell you that the Blackberry is "different" from other devices.

I'm saying that it has affected all devices in my experience, I have not tried a Blackberry on 3 (lolblackberry).

cookie1977

Ok, but when I first tested 3 I didnt apply the BIS add-on so the phone wasn't routing any data through the Blackberry servers, it behaved just like any GSM/HSDPA phone with no routing. It had no problems switching between 2g and 3g (Vodafone-Three). I still think you're incorrect in your interpretation of the 2g-3g handover problem for some devices.

srsly78

I will grant you that my interpretation may be incorrect, but the end-result (airplane toggling frustration) is the same. As an engineer we would look at what is different between 3 (broken) and other networks (not broken), and 3 not having a 2g network is what's different.

Testing that was done to verify this problem on several handsets:
Use 3 simcard, notice internet needs to be reset very often.
Swap simcard to competitor, no problems.

cookie1977

True. There's certainly a huge problem for iPhone users. I actually wondered was the dropped call issue for iPhone on the vodafone network somehow related to the 2g-3g handover issue?
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056213371

srsly78

The exact same problem manifests itself for android (known for over 2 years now). Note I'm only talking about internet here, 3 voice was always 100% for me. 3 seem to be actually trying to blame Apple for the network problem!!! I asked them if I should send my mates HTC Desire back to Apple for repair too

bd250110

It's not just the fruityPhone that has problems, the fandroids have some issues too - although we don't seem to hear so much about that. Symbian seems to deal with 3G->2G->3G fine, never had an issue with my N71 - couldnt get the thing off 3G - even in very rural/remote areas! I wonder if it has something to do with phones trying to keep an open data connection? I suspect that this is also a symptom of power management on the device and related to the iPhone antenna - which is not the greatest.

In fairness to 3, it has gotten better. From my usage (on iPhone 3Gs) two things seem to be happening. Once the phone goes over to 2G(Vodafone) it seems to 'cling' onto that signal more, But there is another issue on getting back onto 3G, which is not as seamless as it needs to be. Even though ther eis more than adequate 3G signal, the phone just sits on GPRS. I feel that this issue is quite complex and I suspect that there are several issues which have the same outcome -> Airplane Mode toggle.

zinzan

srsly78 wrote: »

Blackberry uses a completely different network system :rolleyes: I've seen the problem in question on palm+android+iphone.

The devices I've used on the Three network are Nokia s40, s60 and Symbian^3 and I've never had any issues with 2G/3G changeover, so it's not just Blackberry devices that don't suffer the issue, and Nokia don't use a "completely different network system"

srsly78

Dumbphones :rolleyes: We are only talking about modern devices here.

Problem is related to "always on" connection somehow.

zinzan

S60 and Symbian^3 dumbphones?!

Both are capable of maintaining an 'always on' data connection.

What's your definition of a smartphone so?

srsly78

Most people these days own iPhone or Android. Thus problem effects majority of devices. Saying some old Nokia works fine is irrelevant.

cookie1977

Most people?

srsly78

My mum has a Nokia, but I doubt she even knows it can use 3g.

edit: What are you guys trying to say? I never said this issue affected all models of devices, I said "I have never seen a device on 3 working properly". In truth I never bothered checking if a Nokia worked properly because who cares?

bd250110

IIRC the sales figures sugest that the N8 has outsold every Android device, period. Symbian is still a much larger platform around the world. Perhaps not as much in the foreground as Android or iOS, but by no means obscure. Branding the N8 "some old Nokia" is disingenuous at best, ignorant fanboyisim at worst.

I agree with zinzan, Symbian can deal with 3G->2G->3G without hiccups, maybe Apple and Google should borrow a few of the engineers from Nokia. Oftentimes one can lear a lot more by seeing what competitors do well and implement this, rather than deriding them. Ego has brought Nokia to it's knees and is currently doing the same at RIM.

srsly78

Symbian is only dominant in 3rd world countries. If you look at figures for UK or Ireland or America you will find android+iphone dominate.

Also, only Nokia call Symbian a "smartphone os".

Kenny Logins

cookie1977 wrote: »

Most people?

http://sociable.co/2011/02/09/mobile-ireland-2011-smartphone-usage-in-ireland-infographic/mindshare-mobile-ireland-2011/

Although that was November 2010, and out of a survey of 1007 people.. so pretty much useless stats.

srsly78

bd250110 wrote: »

IIRC the sales figures sugest that the N8 has outsold every Android device, period. Symbian is still a much larger platform around the world. Perhaps not as much in the foreground as Android or iOS, but by no means obscure. Branding the N8 "some old Nokia" is disingenuous at best, ignorant fanboyisim at worst.

I agree with zinzan, Symbian can deal with 3G->2G->3G without hiccups, maybe Apple and Google should borrow a few of the engineers from Nokia. Oftentimes one can lear a lot more by seeing what competitors do well and implement this, rather than deriding them. Ego has brought Nokia to it's knees and is currently doing the same at RIM.

Come on now, the problem only exists with 3. There is no problem with other networks. Do we really care who is at fault? We just want our phones to work

Kenny Logins

I suppose the phones just aren't designed to jump in and out of roaming as regularly as is required on Three...

kirving

Saying that Symbian is only dominant in thrid world countries is ridiculous. SALES if Symbian devices are way down, but it's still the dominant OS. Also, Symbian S60 devies of 5-6 years ago absolutely wiped the floor with anything out there, and still are very capable in todays market, so calling them dumbphones is stupid.

Any Nokia I've had outperformed every other phone I compared it to as regards signal strength.
How exactly is it not a 'Smartphone OS'? Really showing ignorance there to be honest.


It probably helps somewhat that Nokia equipment is widely used in exchanges too.

baby and crumble

srsly78 wrote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by zoegh
i got a sim free iphone4 from apple and am on PAYG with 3 and I have no problems with call signal, and I'd go so far as to say 90% 3g coverage- usually i only notice i'm out of it when i'm in a basement or something. Been with 3 for a few years now, never really had any major problems tbh...

Ah shure a quick reset and it's grand. Nothin wrong with 3 amirite?

Actually I never have to reset anything. Once I come back to where there's 3G service (ie upstairs or out of a lined room) it just goes back to normal. I've had 6 different phones on 3 and not had any major problems.

zinzan

srsly78 wrote: »

Saying some old Nokia works fine is irrelevant.

Actually it is quite relevant - especially since the OP is looking for information on phones other than the iPhone as well.
I think other people have already pointed out the flaws in your thinking re. what constitutes a smartphone and what their market presence/capabilities are so there's no point me repeating them.

Hopefully what has been discussed is of some use to the OP!!