Busquets Charged With Racism

Blatter

Malty_T wrote: »

Primary sources are always best.:)

Yes, that means he has been charged with racism and the trial is on the 15th.

Turtwig

SOCCER4LIFE wrote: »

Yes, that means he has been charged with racism and the trial is on the 15th.

Yeah it does. :)I still can't find Real's statement.:(
(Maybe it doesn't appear properly in Chrome?)

Le King

SOCCER4LIFE wrote: »

Yes, that means he has been charged with racism and the trial is on the 15th.

Not according to our prima facie resident Boards.ie lawyer it doesn't

redout

Le King wrote: »

If he was calling him a chicken why the need to cover his mouth? As far as I'm concerned he is guilty of racism. He's a disgrace and should be banned from UEFA competitions for life.

This statement is alarmingly short-sighted and shows lack of understanding.

Blatter

flahavaj wrote: »

The simple answer to that is why investigate anything that doesn't have en element of doubt to it? If a complaint of racism was made and they didn't look into it there'd be an outcry.

They'll give the guy a fair hearing and allow him to defend himself as you'd expect in any democratic society.

My personal feeling is that if that video is all they're going on then they simply cannot convict him (if thats the right word). The evidence is nowhere near conclusive enough. You can't ban him simply because he's an unsavoury character most of the time, or because he cups his mouth with his hand. If an element of reasonable doubt exists, they haven't a leg to stand on.

Uefa are a strange bunch.

They rejected the complaints from Madrid that Barcelona players consistently feigned injury and acted unsportingly throughout the semi final first leg. This was clear for the world to see yet Uefa dismiss the accusations and refused to investigate.

So why not dismiss the Busquets accusations and avoid dragging their names through the mud while they are at it if they know he won't be found guilty regardless?

Surely it's because they actually felt the evidence was strong enough to charge him, no?

If he's not found guilty, there will be uproar(rightly or wrongly).

steelcityblues

SOCCER4LIFE wrote: »

Uefa are a strange bunch.

They rejected the complaints from Madrid that Barcelona players consistently feigned injury and acted unsportingly throughout the semi final first leg. This was clear for the world to see yet Uefa dismiss the accusations and refused to investigate.

So why not dismiss the Busquets accusations and avoid dragging their names through the mud while they are at it if they know he won't be found guilty regardless?

Surely it's because they actually felt the evidence was strong enough to charge him, no?

If he's not found guilty, they're will be uproar(rightly or wrongly).

Pretty obvious to anyone with an open mind for a few years that Barca have been their favoured team! Shame, given the quality of football they can produce without the antics.

Just hope the final does not come down to something controversial.

Turtwig

SOCCER4LIFE wrote: »

Uefa are a strange bunch.

They rejected the complaints from Madrid that Barcelona players consistently feigned injury and acted unsportingly throughout the semi final first leg. This was clear for the world to see yet Uefa dismiss the accusations and refused to investigate.

So why not dismiss the Busquets accusations and avoid dragging their names through the mud while they are at it if they know he won't be found guilty regardless?

Surely it's because they actually felt the evidence was strong enough to charge him, no?

If he's not found guilty, they're will be uproar(rightly or wrongly).

Any group that fails to acknowledge its incompetence (referees, lack of video assistance for referees, not tackling gamesmanship etc) is a little odd. But seriously if they convict Biscuits on the premise of lip reading they might as well hire psychics for future cases.:D

Le King

redout wrote: »

This statement is alarmingly short-sighted and shows lack of understanding.

What have I a lack of understanding of? The Spanish language?

You're not to agree with me. If he did say it, which I think he did. What punishment would you hand out? Just out of curiosity?

Turtwig

Le King wrote: »

Not according to our prima facie resident Boards.ie lawyer it doesn't

Ahh come on didn't you ever play Phoenix Wright or watch Law and Order.
It's such a cool term.:D

Oh and I'll admit I was wrong but I checked with UEFA because I don't really trust most media outlets to get stories about people they already don't like accurate.:)

flahavaj

SOCCER4LIFE wrote: »

Uefa are a strange bunch.

They rejected the complaints from Madrid that Barcelona players consistently feigned injury and acted unsportingly throughout the semi final first leg. This was clear for the world to see yet Uefa dismiss the accusations and refused to investigate.

So why not dismiss the Busquets accusations and avoid dragging their names through the mud while they are at it if they know he won't be found guilty regardless?

Surely it's because they actually felt the evidence was strong enough to charge him, no?

If he's not found guilty, there will be uproar(rightly or wrongly).

This is kinda moving away from a debate about whether theres sufficient evidence to convict Busquets and more about UEFA and their general competency. If you're asking whether UEFA in general are capable of being consistent then the answer is probably no. My point though is that if they do ban him based on that video clip, then that would simply be another example of their general ineptness rather than any indication of them doing the right thing or serving out justice in a fair way.

Le King

Malty_T wrote: »

Ahh come on didn't you ever play Phoenix Wright or watch Law and Order.
It's such a cool term.:D

Nope hate watching law shows. I did watch an of episodes of Turno de oficio: Diez años después. It was pretty rubbish. Spanish TV in general is shít, bar Los Serrano! What a show.

Blatter

flahavaj wrote: »

This is kinda moving away from a debate about whether theres sufficient evidence to convict Busquets and more about UEFA and their general competency. If you're asking whether UEFA in general are capable of being consistent then the answer is probably no. My point though is that if they do ban him based on that video clip, then that would simply be another example of their general ineptness rather than any indication of them doing the right thing or serving out justice in a fair way.

You see we are only working on the assumption that the video clip is the only evidence. For all we know, Marcello has told Uefa what Busquets said. Maybe another Madrid player has done also, who knows?

I'd like to know how often Uefa charges a player and the player is subsequently found not guilty. I wouldn't imagine too many times.

Anything is possible with Uefa as seen with the Eduardo ban and subsequent successful appeal.

I sometimes get the impression that they care more for their own reputation rather than doing the right thing.

All I'm saying is it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest to see Busquets found guilty.

Vurnon San Benito

TerryTibbs! wrote: »

Hope he gets a ban. He symbolizes what is wrong with the game at the moment.

+1

redout

Le King wrote: »

What have I a lack of understanding of? The Spanish language?

You're not to agree with me. If he did say it, which I think he did. What punishment would you hand out? Just out of curiosity?

The short-sightedness and lack of understanding which you have shown is your premature convicting and sentencing of an individual who has at this stage only been alleged to have committed an offence which has not yet been argued nor proven.

flahavaj

SOCCER4LIFE wrote: »

You see we are only working on the assumption that the video clip is the only evidence. For all we know, Marcello has told Uefa what Busquets said. Maybe another Madrid player has done also, who knows?

I'd like to know how often Uefa charges a player and the player is subsequently found not guilty. I wouldn't imagine too many times.

Anything is possible with Uefa as seen with the Eduardo ban and subsequent successful appeal.

I sometimes get the impression that they care more for their own reputation rather than doing the right thing.

All I'm saying is it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest to see Busquets found guilty.

Simply because of the mere fact that he's been charged?

Hazys

If found guilty, i'd expect at least a 10 game ban. UEFA will make an example out of him becuase they have failed in the past to effectively punish racist behaviour, especially in Spain.

Blatter

flahavaj wrote: »

Simply because of the mere fact that he's been charged?

Of course, sure anyone charged has a chance of being found guilty. They wouldn't have been charged otherwise.

I have a feeling that they have other evidence(primarily players' testimonials) and they would not have charged him if they thought there wasn't sufficient evidence to find him guilty.

I'm not saying he will be found guilty, nor am I saying he should be found guilty if the only evidence is that clip, I am just not writing off the possibility as you have done.

Hazys

SOCCER4LIFE wrote: »

I'm not saying he will be found guilty, nor am I saying he should be found guilty if the only evidence is that clip, I am just not writing off the possibility as you have done.

The evidence is the testimony of the Real Madrid players and the Video clip.

If the video clip matches the testimony, its game over for Busquets.

GLaDOS

Hazys wrote: »

The evidence is the testimony of the Real Madrid players and the Video clip.

If the video clip matches the testimony, its game over for Busquets.

The video clip isn't 100% conclusive and the tesimony can easily be lied about to match the video because everyone has seen it

Hazys

ScienceNerd wrote: »

The video clip isn't 100% conclusive and the tesimony can easily be lied about to match the video because everyone has seen it

Why isn't the video 100% conclusive? Lip reading isn't a 100% accurate but its pretty good. If they can give a certain list of words that could of possibly be said from his lip movement, and the list is minor or doenst match "big nose"...he's pretty much caught out.

Do you think its a consipary so? The Real Madrid team brought in a team of speech reading experts, made them sit tru the whole game, analysing each lip movement of a Barca player. Then found a bit of clip where a player could possibly be saying "Momo" and happened to be covering his mouth at the same time and then told their players to lie about?

Or what more than likely happened. Was that the Real Madrid player, complained after being racically insulted on the pitch, the team took a look at the tape, found the incident on tape sent it onto UEFA where they can look at it.

GLaDOS

Hazys wrote: »

Why isn't the video 100% conclusive? Lip reading isn't a 100% accurate but its pretty good.

You answered your own question there

Do you think its a consipary so? The Real Madrid team brought in a team of speech reading experts, made them sit tru the whole game, analysing each lip movement of a Barca player. Then found a bit of clip where a player could possibly be saying "Momo" and happened to be covering his mouth and then told their players to lie about?

Or what more than likely happened. Was that the Real Madrid player, complained after being racically insulted on the pitch, the team took a look at the tape, found the incident on tape sent it onto UEFA where they can look at it.

I have no particular opinion on what happened, I don't support either team and only find the case mildly interesting. I'm just pointing out that you can easily cast doubt upon the evidence.

Hazys

ScienceNerd wrote: »

You answered your own question there

How?

Lets say the lip reading of the video is 90% accurate and this is a court case.

The lip reading experts come back with 3 words that he could have possible said, one was "Momo".

Add that to the Real Madrid players testimoney and the fact Busquests said he said "Big Nose"...he'd be convicted beyond resonable doubt.

GLaDOS

Hazys wrote: »

How?

Because you just said lip-reading isn't 100%, therefore the video isn't 100% conclusive. It still holds weight, but not enough to soley convict him imo.

Add that to the Real Madrid players testimoney and the fact Busquests said he said "Big Nose"...he'd be convicted beyond resonable doubt.

And if Barca players say he definitely didn't and the Madrid players are lying, what then?

CorkMan

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

And that to me is the point.

When McGuinness called Boco a 'black b*stard" in a Bohs v Sligo game, Boco went to take his head off. He made a complaint, JMG took his oil, apoplogised privately and publically and got a 5 game ban for his troubles.

Marcello didn't even blink. He didn't complain. He has made no statement to anyone.

I'm not saying that Busquets didn't abuse him racially, but on the evidence presented, I am inclined to believe that this is straightforward shenanigans from Real.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xP4vScdWQnU

The way Marcelo shaked his head afterwords would non-verbally point to something being said. Also in the vid @ 0:09 on the dot it appears Busquets turned his head away promptly as if he saw a camera suddenly, and it appears at 00:13 he looks back again to see if a camera was recording the situation.

CorkMan

I think UEFA should create a "Most Hated UEFA Player" award.

Busquets would win it unanimously.

flahavaj

Is the hearing for this today? When will we find out the verrdict?

DOC09UNAM

flahavaj wrote: »

Is the hearing for this today? When will we find out the verrdict?

We'll know tomorrow I think.

Oranage2

He plays for Barca - there's noway he's getting a ban or fine or even found guilty!

Sid Lowe reporting that he's been found not guilty by UEFA.

Ush1

Deleted User wrote: »

Sid Lowe reporting that he's been found not guilty by UEFA.

Right call if that's the only evidence.

He might well have said something racist, but if lip reading can get you a ban it lays down a very dodgy precedent.

gimmick

Deleted User wrote: »

Sid Lowe reporting that he's been found not guilty by UEFA.

Great news. Oliver Kay reporting the same "Uefa dismiss racial abuse allegtn "due to lack of strong/convincing "

CorkMan

Deleted User wrote: »

Sid Lowe reporting that he's been found not guilty by UEFA.

Great- now let the racism begin. Who knows- he might get away with a couple of blatant dives in the final.

curry-muff

Pathetic decision, UEFA running with their tail between their legs when they had to challenge the biggest team in Europe at the minute.

Dolph Starbeam

curry-muff wrote: »

Pathetic decision, UEFA running with their tail between their legs when they had to challenge the biggest team in Europe at the minute.

If the lip reading was the only evidence it would have been crazy to give someone a lengthy ban on that evidence alone.

curry-muff

Mark! wrote: »

If the lip reading was the only evidence it would have been crazy to give someone a lengthy ban on that evidence alone.

I don't get this whole 'He cant be charged based on lip reading' idea, its clear enough what he did. Im no expert but you can see him uttering 'Mono'

cm2000

http://www.uefa.com/uefa/footballfirst/matchorganisation/disciplinary/news/newsid=1631780.html

ugh, will this slimy bastard ever get his cumupins

CorkMan

cm2000 wrote: »

http://www.uefa.com/uefa/footballfirst/matchorganisation/disciplinary/news/newsid=1631780.html

ugh, will this slimy bastard ever get his cumupins

If only Roy was still playing for Man Utd, we could have seen this in the final.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_st29mlQwU

jordainius

cm2000 wrote: »

http://www.uefa.com/uefa/footballfirst/matchorganisation/disciplinary/news/newsid=1631780.html

ugh, will this slimy bastard ever get his cumupins

What???

Pauleta

disgraceful decision. Barca have UEFA wrapped around their fingers.

Dolph Starbeam

curry-muff wrote: »

I don't get this whole 'He cant be charged based on lip reading' idea, its clear enough what he did. Im no expert but you can see him uttering 'Mono'

He could also have said a list of other words that are pronounced the same way. I'm not saying he's innocent and from what I've seen of Busquets he probably is guilty but there is not enough clear evidence to ban someone.

CorkMan

@gimmick: Why did you "thank" curry-muff's post, I though you were a Blaugrana.

Davaeo09

How can you say Racism is bad and then say that Roy Keane ending some one's career like that is fine?


Fact of the matter is, there was no hard evidence to charge Busquets. Any one who think's otherwise needs to get their head out of their arse and see the light!

Renn

This sorta reminds me of the embarrassing ban Materazzi received after the World Cup final.

cm2000

jordainius wrote: »

What???

Apologies for the spelling fail: comeuppance is what I meant. One of those words you always hear and never read.

Peek-a-boo

DOC09UNAM

Davaeo09 wrote: »

How can you say Racism is bad and then say that Roy Keane ending some one's career like that is fine?


Fact of the matter is, there was no hard evidence to charge Busquets. Any one who think's otherwise needs to get their head out of their arse and see the light!

Roy Keane ended nobodys career btw.

Facts are a great thing, you should try using them.

CorkMan

I have one thing to say:

Sergio Busquets is a completely and utterly not good for the game IMO.

Corholio

As much of a Real fan as I am, and as much as Busquets is scum, for such a serious charge it couldn't just be on what the evidence presented was, you have to be very sure. Personally i've no idea if he did say it or not. Hopefully it will bring an end to the circus between the 2 teams now, both of them as guilty as the other.

GavRedKing

CorkMan wrote: »

I have one thing to say:

Sergio Busquets is a complete and utter scumbag.

:rolleyes:

He was cleared of an incident that was to say the least, not as clear cut as people made it out to be.

Life goes on and all that.

Seaneh

absolute little toe rag.
The sooner someone decks him the better.