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are you worried about the Queens visit?
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Not only to put lives at risk, but the IRA killed more Catholics (who would very often recognise themselves as Irish) than the other organisations during the troubles respectively. This is a well documented fact, you can find it on the CAIN website.You are wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
IRA would never ever put Irish lives at risk ever.
A series of exclamation marks does not prove anything.0 -
One more note on the royal visit... I think that anybody who takes an interest in Irish affairs must be seriously disheartened by the events of the last six months.
The EU IMF 'bailout' appeared to show the state may not have been cut out to manage its own affairs after all, various reports have shown that Catholicism had far too heavy handed a role in our society, there have been more findings of corruption in politics. And now, that the royal visit has descended into a farce with the only precaution still pending is QE2 being wrapped in bullet proof bubble wrap and transported in a lead shipping container, speaking only through a loudspeaker with her hosts. This has not been the year of demonstrating Irish maturity on a broad level.0 -
The Garda didnt even like that part either.Half of them are struggling with their own debts as is.
And if another person says tourism will be on up because of these visits i will seriously cry.Another red herring like the Lisbon treaty.
Are you seriously trying to claim that a heavily in debt garda wouldn't welcome the extra overtime? Or that the net benefit to our tourism industry wouldn't exceed 30m?0 -
:eek: Jesus, that is one demented statement. Not only has a poster pointed out the obvious truth that the PIRA killed more catholics then any other organisation during the troubles, but there are certainly specific incidents which make this statistic even more troubling. Proxy bombs which forced "Irish" to drive bombs to security areas in the North being one example.You are wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
IRA would never ever put Irish lives at risk ever.
Garda Killed in the Line of Duty
Garda Inspector Samuel Donegan - 8th June 1970 - Provisional IRA bombing
Garda Michael Clerkin - 15th October 1976 - Provisional IRA bombing
Detective Garda James Quaid - 13th October 1980 - shot by Provisional IRA
Garda Recruit Gary Sheehan - 16th December 1983 - shot by Provisional IRA
Detective Garda Frank Hand - 10th August 1984 - shot by Provisional IRA
Detective Garda Jerry McCabe - 7th June 1996 - shot by Provisional IRA
There is zero point in white washing history and pretending like a fool, that the IRA would never put Irish lives at risk ever. It is stupid. It is history, so there is zero point saying "I support/don't support PIRA", the only thing you should be doing is saying "what is the truth, what actually happened".
Seriously, what a misguided, completely false statement based on the FACT.0 -
The EU IMF 'bailout' appeared to show the state may not have been cut out to manage its own affairs after all, various reports have shown that Catholicism had far too heavy handed a role in our society, there have been more findings of corruption in politics. And now, that the royal visit has descended into a farce with the only precaution still pending is QE2 being wrapped in bullet proof bubble wrap and transported in a lead shipping container, speaking only through a loudspeaker with her hosts. This has not been the year of demonstrating Irish maturity on a broad level.
America, England, Iceland, Greece, Portugal, Spain. All other countries which could easily be accused on not being able to handle its own affairs. That is just from this recession. You know other countries have had recessions too :eek: Wow, amazing, I thought we were the only country to ever have a recession. Shocking stuff.
A religion which represented the vast majority of its citizens had influence. Shocking stuff, we must be the only country who have had that problem. Pity it is a broken record and the actual influence that the church has on government is actually very limited these days and is probably on par with other lobby groups like farmers, if even.
Corruption in politics. Now seriously, the countries of Europe, Americas and Africa must be shocked at us. They have never ever had one corrupt politician ever. :rolleyes: We are certainly the symbol of corruption in politics.
Yes, those crazy Irish, trying to fix the problems that exist and have existed in many countries. With the Arab revolutions this year, Berlusconi and his teenage prostitutes, the earthquake in Japan, and the bizarre importance of Obama's birth cert, Ireland does look very mature in conceding that a portion of its citizens are absolute scum and giving every possible protection to a visiting monarch.0 -
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Well actually I'm talking about those things all coming together in a short space of time, being relics of mismanagement of our own economy and our own society. Also, as opposed to saying that the state certainly cannot manage its own affairs, I am talking specifically about the message that these scandals sent out across the world about Irish self-governance. Naysayers who scoffed at Irish independence might well have had reason to say 'I told you so' looking back on the last 12 months alone. I'm not saying they would be right, but certainly that perception might very easily arise.The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »America, England, Iceland, Greece, Portugal, Spain. All other countries which could easily be accused on not being able to handle its own affairs. That is just from this recession. You know other countries have had recessions too :eek: Wow, amazing, I thought we were the only country to ever have a recession. Shocking stuff.
A religion which represented the vast majority of its citizens had influence. Shocking stuff, we must be the only country who have had that problem. Pity it is a broken record and the actual influence that the church has on government is actually very limited these days and is probably on par with other lobby groups like farmers, if even.
Corruption in politics. Now seriously, the countries of Europe, Americas and Africa must be shocked at us. They have never ever had one corrupt politician ever. :rolleyes: We are certainly the symbol of corruption in politics.
Yes, those crazy Irish, trying to fix the problems that exist and have existed in many countries. With the Arab revolutions this year, Berlusconi and his teenage prostitutes, the earthquake in Japan, and the bizarre importance of Obama's birth cert, Ireland does look very mature in conceding that a portion of its citizens are absolute scum and giving every possible protection to a visiting monarch.0 -
Well actually I'm talking about those things all coming together in a short space of time, being relics of mismanagement of our own economy and our own society. Also, as opposed to saying that the state certainly cannot manage its own affairs, I am talking specifically about the message that these scandals sent out across the world about Irish self-governance. Naysayers who scoffed at Irish independence might well have had reason to say 'I told you so' looking back on the last 12 months alone. I'm not saying they would be right, but certainly that perception might very easily arise.
Well, I am certainly afraid to meet the man, who is over 100+ years old that scoffed when Ireland got Independence and wants to say "I told you so". I am sure there are many of them about. Come on, bit of a lame point. All of the aspects that you have mentioned exist in some form in nearly every country or have existed. Your statements just sound like ill-informed projecting and self-loathing immaturity.0 -
You're clearly not interested in looking at this objectively, so I'm out.
It's all grand. Nothing to see here. Move along now. Hmm.0 -
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The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »:eek: Jesus, that is one demented statement. Not only has a poster pointed out the obvious truth that the PIRA killed more catholics then any other organisation during the troubles, but there are certainly specific incidents which make this statistic even more troubling. Proxy bombs which forced "Irish" to drive bombs to security areas in the North being one example.
Garda Killed in the Line of Duty
Garda Inspector Samuel Donegan - 8th June 1970 - Provisional IRA bombing
Garda Michael Clerkin - 15th October 1976 - Provisional IRA bombing
Detective Garda James Quaid - 13th October 1980 - shot by Provisional IRA
Garda Recruit Gary Sheehan - 16th December 1983 - shot by Provisional IRA
Detective Garda Frank Hand - 10th August 1984 - shot by Provisional IRA
Detective Garda Jerry McCabe - 7th June 1996 - shot by Provisional IRA
There is zero point in white washing history and pretending like a fool, that the IRA would never put Irish lives at risk ever. It is stupid. It is history, so there is zero point saying "I support/don't support PIRA", the only thing you should be doing is saying "what is the truth, what actually happened".
Seriously, what a misguided, completely false statement based on the FACT.
However wrong all police.
Are you telling me you think they would stick a bomb under loads of Irish civilians in Dublin city and kill them?0 -
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Like Omagh? Tyrone is a very nationalist area. There is no logic behind any terrorist atrocity, but I will never understand, employing the limited logic of these thugs, why they planted a bomb in Omagh, West Tyrone. Planting a bomb in the heartland of Antrim, although horrific and no less brutal, would at least seem to have supported their supposed logic. Anyway, I shake my head at all of it.However wrong all police.
Are you telling me you think they would stick a bomb under loads of Irish civilians in Dublin city and kill them?
The fact is that the IRA kill and have killed more Catholics (who traditionally would tend to see themselves as Irish) than any other respective group including the UVF and the RUC combined if I remember correctly. They are the enemy within, certainly not an ally to Irishmen and women.0 -
Just to follow on from that, it's slightly interesting (and this comes with a major health warning in terms of the dreaded academic snobbery) that you can go into any reputable university, and find teaching there Keynesians, Austrians, anarchists, right wing catholics, right wing atheists, republicans (in the literal sense), feminists, liberals and conservatives, and never once, to my knowledge - ever - come across those who support IRA activity.
Isn't it funny? The modern extreme nationalist movement, unlike so many other movements, has absolutely no academic support. Its proponents do not don mortarboards, but balaclavas. Just an observation.0 -
And your point is WHAT exactly?
My point is, I'd be worried about more than just the IRA / RIRA, we've all seen what happens when those who are supposed to protect and serve start swinging battons during peacefull protests.
The whole lot should be called off, truth is she aint welcome, millions spent on security with the use of thousands of Gardai, Defence forces, UK police, British Army and banning people from the streets is proof that for the moment she aint welcome.0 -
Don't talk utter ****e!! My wife was injured in one of their Covent Garden bombs. Moron :mad:
IRA = Knuckle-dragging vermin!!
:mad: And do you think your the only one with pain & suffering:mad: My mothers sister was murdered by the Brave uvf (hi keithAFC) in Dublin along with 25 others on may 17th 1974,Will YOU all be there tomorrow to remember our forgotten ?There are more than 2 sides to that war in the six counties and a lot of you here want to get your rose tinted glasses off.0 -
Pineapple stu wrote: »Dont talk utter bollocks.
What so you think Irish would have prospered in the last 95 years if wasnt for IRA fighting? And what happened up North to Irish was just all fantasy :rolleyes:0 -
Just to follow on from that, it's slightly interesting (and this comes with a major health warning in terms of the dreaded academic snobbery) that you can go into any reputable university, and find teaching there Keynesians, Austrians, anarchists, right wing catholics, right wing atheists, republicans (in the literal sense), feminists, liberals and conservatives, and never once, to my knowledge - ever - come across those who support IRA activity.
Isn't it funny? The modern extreme nationalist movement, unlike so many other movements, has absolutely no academic support. Its proponents do not don mortarboards, but balaclavas. Just an observation.
Yes but look at occupation in other places in the world like The west bank and the Gaza Strip between palestine and Israel and im sure you will hear of support for the struggle of the palestinian people and they will refer to the occupied territories of the west bank and control of the Gaza strip.
Why is the north of ireland different just the media is bias towards british news and media? Why is the north not seen as occupied?
Im 24 years old and was not able to vote on the good friday agreement as i understand it gave the republic the chance to vote whether or not we should have claim to the north. We have had to referendums on abortion if im not mistaken and two referendums on the lisbon treaty and yet there has never been another referendum like the Good Friday Agreement?
I would never agree with violence towards civilians or bombs of any kind that endanger innocent lives but i dont think i can ever accept to have any of my island country to be ruled by a foreign empire. I just cant and there will always be people like me and people using violence as a means to achieve a united Ireland under one government and i believe this visit is going to remind everyone of that fact. My great grandchildrens generation will still feel their country is occupied and violence is nessecery so the good friday agreement was nothing more than a piece of paper which i assume was signed on a Friday. Im certainly not a member of the Ira or know of anyone that is but its ridiculous to not see how they will never truly be defeated. I also think that when those that chose to give up their arms and attempt to achieve a united Ireland through political means fail to do so they will just revert back to an armed campaign and the conflict will continue. The Good Friday Agreement was not a treaty but a ceasefire meaning on that day both sides agreed to an intermisson. That intermission will some day end and the conflict will resume and that may be on Tuesday if this imperial visit does not run smoothly.0 -
It's amazing how far off the point this thread seems to have gone.
The Queen will arrive, there will be pomp and ceremony, a lot of hand shaking and smiling. She'll go on her little tour, be greeted by friendly Irish people who will (among other things) stage a concert for her and showcase a lot of Irish design, etc.
She'll say a few words in Croker and at other places I would imagine, then she'll wave goodbye, Enda and McAleese will wave back and she'll be gone back to Britain.
There'll be some boisterous protest in Dublin and elsewhere, but it will mostly be calm and ordered. Anyone that tries to disturb the peace of this state visit (as with any state visit anywhere else in the world) will be dealt with using legal process.
As much fun as it might be to keyboard warrior on these forums about whether its right or wrong, that is how it will happen as far as I can tell. She'll arrive, chat, walk around, and go. Yes, it cost a lot, but its already been spent. No-one can change that.
The calm, intelligent people always outnumber the slow-witted thugs who would want to turn this visit into more than what it is. So it'll be fine, if a little inconvenient for those travelling around Dublin, etc.0 -
No, I am not worried about the Queen's visit. Why can we not just celebrate and enjoy the visit of Her Majesty and HRH The Duke of Edinburgh. I will be wishing the Royal couple a ' Cead Mile Failte'.0
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Largely because of powersharing, and because that powersharing appears to broadly represent the people, unlike its predecessor and unlike similar systems elsewhere. It's hard to consider a state occupied when that state votes to accept its situation and engages in the political process.lightspeed wrote: »Yes but look at occupation in other places in the world like The west bank and the Gaza Strip between palestine and Israel and im sure you will hear of support for the struggle of the palestinian people and they will refer to the occupied territories of the west bank and control of the Gaza strip.
Why is the north of ireland different just the media is bias towards british news and media? Why is the north not seen as occupied?
Has it ever occured to you that there may be a reason why you can go into any university just about anywhere and find thinkers who are sympathetic to Israeli side and to the Palestinian side even where that extends to violence, and you would be extremely hard pressed to find any academic of repute who would ever support the activity of the IRA, either in its current form or in the form of its more immediate predecessors? Do you not think it is possible that there just isn't any academic, ethical nor philosophical merit to their activities?
Does anybody really question the last one? seriously? It was pretty recent, to be fair. Having said that, I'm not opposed to reiterating it if it would silence the critics.there has never been another referendum like the Good Friday Agreement?0 -
Yes, very. Because of the violent wack-jobs it will bring out of the woodwork and because of the shame they'll cause us. Not that ordinary folk should feel ashamed just because they're Irish, but we will... I'm sure security will be top notch, but I'd also wager the twats will manage to leave their mark somehow.
To be fair, just because a person makes mention of one side, doesn't mean they're not acknowledging there are two.:mad: And do you think your the only one with pain & suffering:mad: My mothers sister was murdered by the Brave uvf (hi keithAFC) in Dublin along with 25 others on may 17th 1974,Will YOU all be there tomorrow to remember our forgotten ?There are more than 2 sides to that war in the six counties and a lot of you here want to get your rose tinted glasses off.
A person should be able to express their horror at e.g. Enniskillen without it being pointed out to them that e.g. the Miami Showband massacre was as bad, and vice versa. All were equally horrific and despicable - it should go without saying.0 -
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Sorry for your lose. It was a disgrace.:mad: And do you think your the only one with pain & suffering:mad: My mothers sister was murdered by the Brave uvf (hi keithAFC) in Dublin along with 25 others on may 17th 1974,Will YOU all be there tomorrow to remember our forgotten ?There are more than 2 sides to that war in the six counties and a lot of you here want to get your rose tinted glasses off.0 -
Has it ever occured to you that there may be a reason why you can go into any university just about anywhere and find thinkers who are sympathetic to Israeli side and to the Palestinian side even where that extends to violence, and you would be extremely hard pressed to find any academic of repute who would ever support the activity of the IRA, either in its current form or in the form of its more immediate predecessors? Do you not think it is possible that there just isn't any academic, ethical nor philosophical merit to their activities?
Does anybody really question the last one? seriously? It was pretty recent, to be fair. Having said that, I'm not opposed to reiterating it if it would silence the critics.
Yes, there is up north on both sides as they as residents who obviously have a more nationalistic interest in politics that those down here for example. They experience a divided society daily, we do not.0 -
It's amazing how far off the point this thread seems to have gone.
The Queen will arrive, there will be pomp and ceremony, a lot of hand shaking and smiling. She'll go on her little tour, be greeted by friendly Irish people who will (among other things) stage a concert for her and showcase a lot of Irish design, etc.
She'll say a few words in Croker and at other places I would imagine, then she'll wave goodbye, Enda and McAleese will wave back and she'll be gone back to Britain.
There'll be some boisterous protest in Dublin and elsewhere, but it will mostly be calm and ordered. Anyone that tries to disturb the peace of this state visit (as with any state visit anywhere else in the world) will be dealt with using legal process.
As much fun as it might be to keyboard warrior on these forums about whether its right or wrong, that is how it will happen as far as I can tell. She'll arrive, chat, walk around, and go. Yes, it cost a lot, but its already been spent. No-one can change that.
The calm, intelligent people always outnumber the slow-witted thugs who would want to turn this visit into more than what it is. So it'll be fine, if a little inconvenient for those travelling around Dublin, etc.
thugs?! Usual name calling from the foreign traitors.0 -
To be fair, just because a person makes mention of one side, doesn't mean they're not acknowledging there are two.
A person should be able to express their horror at e.g. Enniskillen without it being pointed out to them that e.g. the Miami Showband massacre was as bad, and vice versa. All were equally horrific and despicable - it should go without saying.
Well in my opinion it doesn't go without saying as it is always republican violence that is being criticised here,And when anyone mentions loyalist/British army etc there classed as Ira supporters.A bit of more equal criticism will go along way here,it wasn't a one sided street.0 -
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The addition of former members of the UDA to this spectacle is a worrying developement no doubt at the delusional request of Mrs. McAleese who it would appear has lost the plot. This adds a totally unneeded dimension to the whole thing. This will probably descend into something similar to the love ulster debacle under the spotlight of the world media.0
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Haven't read this whole thread, but a few quick questions/observations...
- Did someone invite her, or did she just fancy a trip across the water?
- She's almost 60 years on the throne and never botherered her arse to come here before, so why now?
- I wish her no harm - but I think she's creating an event where there is a strong possibility that someone will try to have a pop at her...
- We've survived this long without her calling to visit - I could easily survive without her calling - think she should stay at home....
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Haven't read this whole thread, but a few quick questions/observations...
- Did someone invite her, or did she just fancy a trip across the water?
- She's almost 60 years on the throne and never botherered her arse to come here before, so why now?
- I wish her no harm - but I think she's creating an event where there is a strong possibility that someone will try to have a pop at her...
- We've survived this long without her calling to visit - I could easily survive without her calling - think she should stay at home....
She was invited by President McAleese for an official State Visit.0 -
Haven't read this whole thread, but a few quick questions/observations...
- Did someone invite her, or did she just fancy a trip across the water?
- She's almost 60 years on the throne and never botherered her arse to come here before, so why now?
- I wish her no harm - but I think she's creating an event where there is a strong possibility that someone will try to have a pop at her...
- We've survived this long without her calling to visit - I could easily survive without her calling - think she should stay at home....
- She was invited by the Irish president.
- She's wanted to come for years but the invitation was never given. That's why she wants to come now, according to a statement given to the indo she's afraid in a few years time she'll be to frail to visit.
- We know the dangers, that's why there's so much security in Dublin at the moment.
- Being able to survive without doing something is not a reason not to do it. We could survive without staging the eurovision but I have just spent an enjoyable few hours watching it from begining to end.
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As a northern "republican" (truer sense) living in Dublin (not of the obese Derry dissident lunatic variety!), I hope that the visit of Queen Elizabeth passes off peacefully, as per any other head of state. This should be a no brainer to anyone who believes in a peaceful society in their own country.
That being said I would like to make a few points:- Most people from the Republic (greater Dublin region anyway) are little more than West Brits these days anyway. They support English soccer teams and watch UK TV shows. They get excited when an Irish act gets 5 minutes of attention "across the water", and get pissed off when the cannot vote on UK gameshows. If you saw Premier Soccer Sunday a few weeks ago (Irish people referring to Stoke City as "we") you would understand. Look at the attention that Mary Byrne, Brian Dowling etc get just because they got the brief nod of approval from the English!
- This is not the Queen's first visit to Ireland, she has been to the island many times before. Any true (32 county) republican would not be making a big deal about this visit compared to any others she has made.
- Queen Elizabeth lost her "uncle" to an IRA man in 1979, she should have more trepidation about the visit than anyone else. She should be given some credit for coming over. My father met her in Belfast before, she is a pleasant woman (I believe the husband is a bit of a prick though). We have had worse heads of state visit Dublin us in the past
- England does not occupy the North of Ireland, they would be gone in a flash if they could exit peacefully. Even Margaret Thatcher looked into the option! Go down to Kent and ask an Englishman what he thinks of having to pay for NI and you'll get your answer
- Talk of 800 years of oppresion is also nonsense. The Republic in general gave up on nationalism in the 1920's. Talk of a United Ireland was again barstoolerism, great in theory but not worth putting down the pint for. Sometimes northern nationalists get annoyed about being abandoned by the "26" into the northern state. I reminded them that since the people of the ROI couldn't even protect thousands of their own children from being systematically raped by the Catholic church, they were hardly going to look out for the interests of those across the border
- This idea about maturing as a nation is also pure BS. At least the Republic votes for its own head of state, unlike GB (although their choice should be respected, the British royal family are hardly despots like say Saudi Arabia). Self-loathing Sindo journalism at its worst
I hope she is made welcome, and I am sure she will be.
Its been a long time since England was the main cause for our problems (north & south). Our problems lie with the cartel of corrupt ("Republican!") politicians, bankers and other assorted Dublin 4 parasites who feeds off the decent people of this country like parasites. Our enemies lie within, and are homegrown.
:cool:
I agree with almost everything there, particularly about the followers of British soccer/reality tv etc who then claim to be "republican". However, you are fundamentally mistaken if you think the British state "would be gone if it could exit peacefully". This is the same British state which year-in-year-out subsidises the small remnant of its Irish state to the tune of billions each and every year. If they were serious about not being interested in staying here, they'd show it by actions, such as ending this massive financial incentive to unionists to declare themselves to be "British". Follow the money, always.0
Let me know when you're ready to come to the 21st Century. 
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