Can someone settle this for me .. does boards.ie stay within the law? or outside?

LighterGuy

As in the sense i've read it countless times that there is no free speech (etc) on boards.ie as its a private company. Fair enough.

But also hear that they have to be careful when it comes to certain topics (mcd, that two barmen case recently etc)

which seems to be a contradiction? on one hand people (even mods) state that boards.ie does not fall in line with irish law... but then ... it does when certain things can back bite them?


Cany anyone clear that up?

tdv123

They fought the law & the ..................well you know how it turns out.

Aoifey!

They can't have certain things on the site as they could get sued, but it is not illegal to say "I don't pay my tv license" or whatever.

At least I think that's it. I could be completely wrong here.

Sharpshooter

Moved from AHs to Feedback.

Shield

Any way to recall and move to Legal Discussion?

randylonghorn

LighterGuy wrote: »

which seems to be a contradiction? on one hand people (even mods) state that boards.ie does not fall in line with irish law...

How?

"There is no automatic entitlement to free speech (etc) on boards.ie as its a private company" IS Irish law.

Further ... there is no all-embracing entitlement to free speech in Irish law anyway. Article 40.6.1 protects basic freedom of speech within the public sphere, but qualifies and restricts it quite a bit. Think of the recently enacted (and pretty daft imho) blasphemy law. Think of the laws re: libel and slander ... they severely restrict your right to say what you like when you like about whoever you like ... unless you want them to sue the pants off you at least. Under Section 31 of the Broadcasting Act, it was forbidden to broadcast the voice of Sinn Féin or IRA members, if you remember ... that was covered by the restriction in Article 40.6.1 which specifies that the right to free speech may not be used to undermine "public order or ... the authority of the State". That's just a few common examples of the restrictions on free speech under Irish law.

The right to free speech is not an absolute right anywhere to my knowledge, it is normally subject to some restrictions and caveats at least; the different rights of individuals normally have to be balanced or the result will be pretty chaotic.

Boards has to be conscious of this: for example, if you defame someone on here, and it's pointed out to Boards, and they do nothing about it, they can be held partly responsible for the defamation. (That's a layman's quick summary ... I'm no lawyer!).

So that's one very major reason why something might be edited or deleted, despite what some (erroneously) think is their right to free speech.

But there is another broader, underlying reality ... this is a privately owned website owned by a private company, so even the measure of free speech guaranteed by the constitution (with the aforementioned restrictions and caveats) does not apply to this site unless the owners want it to.

If you walk into someone's home, and annoy them by complaining about dogs and the mess they make, and the owners are dog-lovers and get annoyed, they are perfectly entitled to ask you to leave ... even though there is nothing in the constitution or the law which prevents you complaining about dogs!

Similarly, if the owners of this website took an odd notion that they didn't want users talking about dogs, they could enforce that without in any way contravening the law or the provisions of the constitution. It's unlikely to happen, but ...

I'm not sure where you got the idea that Boards was breaching the constitution / law when it suited them, and applying it when it suited at other times, but I'm afraid it's not a very accurate idea, and seems to be based on misconceptions (shared by others, I have to admit) on what the law actually is in this regard and what rights individuals actually have.

seamus

^^
What randy says.

tbh

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shouting_fire_in_a_crowded_theater

28064212

LighterGuy wrote: »

As in the sense i've read it countless times that there is no free speech (etc) on boards.ie as its a private company. Fair enough.

But also hear that they have to be careful when it comes to certain topics (mcd, that two barmen case recently etc)

which seems to be a contradiction? on one hand people (even mods) state that boards.ie does not fall in line with irish law... but then ... it does when certain things can back bite them?


Cany anyone clear that up?

How is it a contradiction? It would be a contradiction if boards did claim to have have free speech but had to be careful about certain topics, that wouldn't make sense at all.

Also, the fact that boards does not have free speech is not something which is not "in line with Irish law", that's just an interpretation you've made up.

Dav

I really don't think any of us here in the office could answer any better than what randy's said above.

Darragh

28064212 wrote: »

Also, the fact that boards does not have free speech is not something which is not "in line with Irish law", that's just an interpretation you've made up.

Well "technically" he's right.

Under Irish law we couldn't allow anyone to say whatever they liked whenever they liked about whoever they liked.

We have the Defamation Act (PDF) to consider. And that piece of legislation is one of the most tricky ones we have to deal with.

Taken from here:

The traditional definition of defamation was publication of a false statement which subjected a person to hatred, ridicule or contempt. That rather archaic definition has given way to a more modern one: a defamatory statement is one which tends to lower the reputation of the subject in the eyes of right-thinking people

I've come up against this a few times recently and I'll repeat what I said in the Motors forum yesterday:

Darragh wrote: »

You are legally responsible for any post you put on Boards.ie - if you set out to damage a company's reputation maliciously or vindictively by posting on the site, you're the one who'll end up facing the consequences. If you wouldn't be prepared to sign your name and address to the post, don't put it up.

Basically, under Irish law, we are considered an Intermediary Service Provider under the E-Commerce Directive which was transposed into Irish law by the European Communities (Directive 2000/1/EC) Regulations, 2003 (S.I. 69 of 2003) (the “2003 Regulations”). Among the responsibilities we have under this, especially under Article 14/Regulation 18, we

3.4 Article 14 of the E-Commerce Directive was transposed into Irish law by Regulation 18 of the 2003 Regulations , which provides as follows:-

“18. (1) An intermediary service provider who provides a relevant service consisting of the storage of information provided by a recipient of the service shall not be liable for the information stored at the request of that recipient if -

(a) the intermediary service provider does not have actual knowledge of the unlawful activity concerned and, as regards claims for damages, is not aware of facts or circumstances from which that unlawful activity is apparent, or


(b) the intermediary service provider, upon obtaining such knowledge or awareness, acts expeditiously to remove or to disable access to the information.

(2) Paragraph (1) shall not apply where the recipient of the service is acting under the authority or the control of the intermediary service provider referred to in that paragraph.

(3) This Regulation shall not affect the power of any court to make an order against an intermediary service provider requiring the provider not to infringe, or to cease to infringe, any legal rights.”

So basically (and I mean at its most basic) that means if we're told that something is wrong on the site and we take it down, we're fine.

That doesn't mean though that YOU can't be sued for something you've said on the site. In addition, under our Terms of Use we state:

You are solely responsible for your conduct and any Material that you submit, post, and/or display on Boards.ie. You agree not to post Material contrary to these Terms of Use.

You are responsible for making sure that you have all rights to what you post, including the rights necessary for you to grant the foregoing licences to same.

You agree to pay for all royalties, fees, and any other monies owing any person by reason of any Material posted by you to or through Boards.ie.

You agree to indemnify, defend (at the request of Boards.ie Ltd), and hold harmless Boards.ie Ltd., Adverts Marketplace Ltd., our investors, successors, subsidiaries, affiliates, co-branders, contractors, employees, third-party advertisers, technology providers, service providers or other partners, and each of their respective officers, directors, agents, shareholders, employees and representatives, from and against any third party claim, demand, loss, damage, cost, or liability including reasonable legal expenses, made or brought by any third party due to or arising out of your use of Boards.ie or any part thereof, the violation of these Terms of Use by you, or the infringement or misappropriation by you, or a third party using your computer, of any account or password to access and/or use Boards.ie, or of any intellectual property rights of any person or entity, or the use or misuse by you or third parties of your passwords or accounts.

Finally our legal guidelines are at http://www.boards.ie/legal


Welcome to our job on a daily basis

Darragh

28064212

Darragh wrote: »

Well "technically" he's right.

Under Irish law we couldn't allow anyone to say whatever they liked whenever they liked about whoever they liked.

AFAICS, that's the opposite of what LighterGuy is saying. They're claiming that boards is not in line with Irish law because they don't allow "free speech"

Darragh

Sorry, you're right. Double negatives confusing me there. I need coffee.

Just to clarify, we operate fully under Irish law. We have to and want to.

metrovelvet

There is no right to free speech in Ireland either. Hence blasphemy laws. And no bill of rights either.

Is it because boards is an ie domain that you are subject to Irish law, or does it depend on where the poster is posting from too?

Darragh

metrovelvet wrote: »

There is no right to free speech in Ireland either. Hence blasphemy laws. And no bill of rights either.

Is it because boards is an ie domain that you are subject to Irish law, or does it depend on where the poster is posting from too?

It's because we're hosted in Ireland and have our offices here too. Anyone posting on the site does so under Irish law.