Autumn Marathon 2011 'Seasoned' Runners thread

Art of Noise

I think I may aim for 3:05 this year. Will do both Longford and Dublin again this year as I did last year managing 3:15 in Dublin. Not quite ready for a sub 3 attempt yet with PBs of 19:00 for 5k, 38:50 for 10k and 64:50 for 10 miles this year. I know if I go for it there is a good chance I would DNF so I will leave the Sub 3 goal til next year.

Did my first long run of my marathon training last weekend, 19-20 miles. Will try to get a couple of 22 mile runs in soon enough too. I think I will run some of these miles at PMP (maybe about 6 miles) but the majority at 8 minute miles plus. Ideally the 22 mile runs should take close to 3 hours. Time on your feet as they say is more important than running fast in LSR training.

misty floyd

Art of Noise wrote: »

I think I may aim for 3:05 this year. Will do both Longford and Dublin again this year as I did last year managing 3:15 in Dublin. Not quite ready for a sub 3 attempt yet with PBs of 19:00 for 5k, 38:50 for 10k and 64:50 for 10 miles this year. I know if I go for it there is a good chance I would DNF so I will leave the Sub 3 goal til next year.

don't write it off this early. You are hitting 20's already, nice one. What kind of mileage are you doing at the moment and what do you plan on doing?
You can definitely do it.

18 weeks to Dublin this Monday, Best of luck folks. Hope to be able to give it another lash myself if injuries get sorted.

ELFOYZER

Hi e-coli et al.
I'll definitely be following your thread with great interest.

Down for more punishment in DCM this year.;)

Art of Noise

misty floyd wrote: »

don't write it off this early. You are hitting 20's already, nice one. What kind of mileage are you doing at the moment and what do you plan on doing?
You can definitely do it.

Thanks for the confidence. I still don't think i'm quite there though. Probably not doing enough mileage. While I may do one 20-22 mile at a weekend i'd probably only do about that again spaced out during the week. (i.e) about 40+ miles per week. How much mileage would you do a week preparing for a marathon?

misty floyd

Art of Noise wrote: »

Thanks for the confidence. I still don't think i'm quite there though. Probably not doing enough mileage. While I may do one 20-22 mile at a weekend i'd probably only do about that again spaced out during the week. (i.e) about 40+ miles per week. How much mileage would you do a week preparing for a marathon?

Well I was doing around 50 - 60 mpw for my first sub 3 attempt, which wasn't a sub 3 attempt until about 8 weeks to go. Thats why I'm saying don't call it quits on the sub 3 just yet. In terms of mileage, it depends on what you are capable of. Some people might pick up injuries at higher mileage. Its up to you but I'd be increasing the miles if I was you.

potsy11

Just noticed this thread and thought i'd join you guys here.

I am making my second attemnpt at 3.15 this year. Its my 5th Marathon. Last year I blew up and managed 3.27 (same as the year before).

I have decided to do the P&D 18 week 55 mile plan and have been back running the last 4-5 weeks. Up to 40 miles now and got a 15 miler in on Sunday with avg pace of 8.30.

i did the Docklands run last week (5m / 8k) and did it in 33.35.

Any tips, hints etc...is the P&D plan that I am doing enough or should i be looking at another plan?

good Luck to one and all!

ThePiedPiper

I suppose I'm seasoned at this stage too. I've 11 marathons under my belt with a PB in February this year of 2.58. I'm running Dublin this year too so after a couple of low enough mileage months I'm back to running 3 days a week now, maybe 25 miles a week. I plan on building this up slowly over July and August, then a tough 6 weeks training from the start of September.

I'm not really sure what my goal is for this race. For a few years, every marathon I trained seriously for was aimed at breaking 3 hours. Sub 2.50 is probably the next logical landmark but we'll see how it goes.

I'm down for the 5, 10 and 13.1 in the race series, and will probably throw in another couple of shorter distance races over the next while too, 10k this weekend I think.

Gringo78

Starting training for Dublin last week....aim is <2:50 (2 previous marathons, PB 2:59). Due to never being able to stick to a plan due to a lot of travel with work, I'm kind of just trying to get a good weeks training in rather than any over arching plan. I don't get the time at weekends to do long runs so I hope to counteract the lack of 20-22 mile runs by 2 x 14-18 mile runs each week, on Mondays & Thursdays. I'm sure I will get 2 or 3 20 mile runs in at some stage over the next 16 weeks though.

Averaged 33mpw for 2:59 last time out. Will be looking for 40-50 miles each week with a lot of PMP miles thrown in with some cruise interval sessions at 10k pace. Some runs will be on the dreadmill, I find it more efficeint use of the treadmill to do 5-10% incline hill reps rather than PMP, tempo or speedwork as don't like running fast on the treadmill (its really not the same as the road once you up the pace). Look to run 7 days a week but if I can get 5 days in I'm happy. Travel with work should be well down in september/October so that should give me a good run in to the marathon.

theboyblunder

Gringo78 wrote: »

Starting training for Dublin last week....aim is <2:50 (2 previous marathons, PB 2:59). Due to never being able to stick to a plan due to a lot of travel with work, I'm kind of just trying to get a good weeks training in rather than any over arching plan. I don't get the time at weekends to do long runs so I hope to counteract the lack of 20-22 mile runs by 2 x 14-18 mile runs each week, on Mondays & Thursdays. I'm sure I will get 2 or 3 20 mile runs in at some stage over the next 16 weeks though.

Averaged 33mpw for 2:59 last time out. Will be looking for 40-50 miles each week with a lot of PMP miles thrown in with some cruise interval sessions at 10k pace. Some runs will be on the dreadmill, I find it more efficeint use of the treadmill to do 5-10% incline hill reps rather than PMP, tempo or speedwork as don't like running fast on the treadmill (its really not the same as the road once you up the pace). Look to run 7 days a week but if I can get 5 days in I'm happy. Travel with work should be well down in september/October so that should give me a good run in to the marathon.

Best of luck with it Gringo! Any idea on a target time? How have you been doing over the 10m-half distances recently?

Im doing Lucerne the day before the DCM, started the training on sunday. Pity, we might have been able to trot along together for a while in Dublin otherwise.

Gringo78

theboyblunder wrote: »

Best of luck with it Gringo! Any idea on a target time? How have you been doing over the 10m-half distances recently?

Im doing Lucerne the day before the DCM, started the training on sunday. Pity, we might have been able to trot along together for a while in Dublin otherwise.

Haven't been racing other than a 10k & a few 5k's and prob won't get a 10m or HM race in before the marathon but target for now will be 2:49 and see whether can lower that depending on how training goes. I'd like to think a 2:44:xx is possible if training goes really good.

MisterDrak

Going to pop my head in here for time to time also lads.

Did a 3:14 in DCM 10, but felt there was a bit more there.

Having looked at my splits (many many times) was averaging 7:10m/m for first 20 miles, then the average moved to 7:50m/m for the next 6 miles. I guess i didnt do enough 20+ mile runs, but am open to any other suggestions.

Training this year has been a mixed bag, solid start in Jan , Feb and Mar, followed by injurys to Knees and hip in April and May, so im starting slighlt on the back foot.

That being said i did a new PB for 5K reciently fo 19:40, so not all bad news.

Anyway im off now to, do up my Plan, which is going to be a personalised version of Daniels, to fit in with work / family commitments...

hf4z6sqo7vjngi

Looks like i will be targeting Amsterdam for the marathon pb now that i am pacing Dublin. Anyone ever try it before? I heard it is flat and good potential for a fast time.

Brianderunner

Mercy Fluffy Pointless wrote: »

Looks like i will be targeting Amsterdam for the marathon pb now that i am pacing Dublin. Anyone ever try it before? I heard it is flat and good potential for a fast time.

I know plenty of people who have tried Amsterdam and have had a good time

ThePiedPiper

Mercy Fluffy Pointless wrote: »

Looks like i will be targeting Amsterdam for the marathon pb now that i am pacing Dublin. Anyone ever try it before? I heard it is flat and good potential for a fast time.

Well Jacky. Yes, Amsterdam is a very good marathon, I did it last year. The course is practically pancake flat, maybe not quite Berlin, but close enough.

A lot of the course is a run out and back along the Amstel river out into the countryside. The stadium start and finish is very handy, as are the hot showers afterwards. Apart from some sections of the course being a bit boring through industrial areas, it's a top-class marathon and definitely potential for fast times.

potsy11

i am doing the 55 mile 18 week P&D Plan

Next week is the Irish Runner 5mile

Is it ok to keep the plan as is with 18m the day after the race or am i better off reorganising the week so that I do the 28 fresh?? Any suggestions?

The plan for the week is as follows:

Mon - rest / Cross
Tues - 10m (w/ 5m at 15k pace)
wed - 5m recovery
thurs - 10m easy
fri - rest
Sat - 5m recovery (5m Race)
Sun - Long 18m

ThePiedPiper

potsy11 wrote: »

i am doing the 55 mile 18 week P&D Plan

Next week is the Irish Runner 5mile

Is it ok to keep the plan as is with 18m the day after the race or am i better off reorganising the week so that I do the 28 fresh?? Any suggestions?

The plan for the week is as follows:

Mon - rest / Cross
Tues - 10m (w/ 5m at 15k pace)
wed - 5m recovery
thurs - 10m easy
fri - rest
Sat - 5m recovery (5m Race)
Sun - Long 18m

Potsy,

If I was you, I'd race hard in the 5 mile, and if you really want to do a recovery the following day, I wouldn't do more than 10 miles.

What's your goal race? If it's in October, then building speed at the moment is more benefical than the long run in my opinion.

Too many 18 mile plus runs in the lead-up to a marathon can be counter-productive.

potsy11

RunForestRun wrote: »

Potsy,

If I was you, I'd race hard in the 5 mile, and if you really want to do a recovery the following day, I wouldn't do more than 10 miles.

What's your goal race? If it's in October, then building speed at the moment is more benefical than the long run in my opinion.

Too many 18 mile plus runs in the lead-up to a marathon can be counter-productive.

DCM In October is the goal and aiming for 3.15/3.20.

Currently on wk 3 of 18 wk plan. Have done 15,16 and 17 this week. Up to about 46-48 miles per week.

I have done 5 Matathons previous but the last 2 have been reasonably structured plans.

ThePiedPiper

Potsy,

I'm planning on DCM too which will be my 12th, and aiming for 2.55 ish. At the minute I'm probably averaging about 25-30 miles per week. I'll up it after the 5 miles in mid-July and start by August will be hitting 50. September will be my heaviest month with 60-75 mile weeks probably. Overall, I'll probably have about 4 or 5 20+ mile runs, and 4 or 5 16-20 mile runs.

Did your other marathons have 18 mile long runs so far out from the marathon? I'm not following any specific plan, just the general plan of our club coach, who was a 2.17 runner in his day. It'll become more structured after the 5 miler.

Going from experience and from my coach's experience, I think that too many long runs this far out from the marathon isn't the best approach. In saying that, everybody has different approaches and what works for one may not necessarily work for another.

potsy11

RunForestRun wrote: »

Potsy,

I'm planning on DCM too which will be my 12th, and aiming for 2.55 ish. At the minute I'm probably averaging about 25-30 miles per week. I'll up it after the 5 miles in mid-July and start by August will be hitting 50. September will be my heaviest month with 60-75 mile weeks probably. Overall, I'll probably have about 4 or 5 20+ mile runs, and 4 or 5 16-20 mile runs.

Did your other marathons have 18 mile long runs so far out from the marathon? I'm not following any specific plan, just the general plan of our club coach, who was a 2.17 runner in his day. It'll become more structured after the 5 miler.

Going from experience and from my coach's experience, I think that too many long runs this far out from the marathon isn't the best approach. In saying that, everybody has different approaches and what works for one may not necessarily work for another.

Hi Forest,

Thanks for your response.

Its funny, I asked the question a few months back what the best structured plans for a marathon would be and the majority seemed to think that the P&D book was best...so off i went and got the book. I decdied on the 18 week plan 55 miles as my general running activity has not been great up until 5 weeks ago.

generally speaking my previous plans were based largely on HH Intermediate and advanced and last year I only did a PB by 30 seconds and was aiming at 3.15 (ran 3.27) so was pretty dissappointed. On reflection I put this down to poor execution of the plan (too many missed days) so nobody to blame but me. I've come out fighting and am determined to hit my target.

Bwtween now and DCM this is the weekly long run:

17,18,13,17,18,20,16 (12@RP), 13,20,17,17(14@RP),15,21,17,16,12, marathon. (17 weeks running)

The max in a week is obviously 55miles.

I would have figured that this plan is the norm for most average runner given that the book was so highly recommended.

belcarra

potsy11 wrote: »

Between now and DCM this is the weekly long run:

17,18,13,17,18,20,16 (12@RP), 13,20,17,17(14@RP),15,21,17,16,12, marathon. (17 weeks running)

Hi Potsy,

I'm following the same plan but am a bit confused by your long runs quoted. I have the book beside me here and the Long Runs that take place on the Sunday are (In miles):
12, 13 (w/8 @ PMP), 14, 15, 16 (w/10 @ PMP), 12, 18, 20, 16 (w/12 @ PMP), 14, 20, 17, 18 (w/14 @ PMP), 17, 20, 16, 12, Marathon.

This is 'Advanced Marathoning' from P&D. Not sure where your numbers are coming from but I think these LSRs would tie in with what people would expect this far out, as opposed to doing 18 milers at this stage?

potsy11

belcarra wrote: »

Hi Potsy,

I'm following the same plan but am a bit confused by your long runs quoted. I have the book beside me here and the Long Runs that take place on the Sunday are (In miles):
12, 13 (w/8 @ PMP), 14, 15, 16 (w/10 @ PMP), 12, 18, 20, 16 (w/12 @ PMP), 14, 20, 17, 18 (w/14 @ PMP), 17, 20, 16, 12, Marathon.

This is 'Advanced Marathoning' from P&D. Not sure where your numbers are coming from but I think these LSRs would tie in with what people would expect this far out, as opposed to doing 18 milers at this stage?

Yikes....just dug the book out there in a panic. I had transferred the data from the book onto an excel SS. The SS was a template from a few years back and another (advanced 24 week ) plan that I was given. I had stupidly forgotten to change the last day....Idiot!!:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

Panic now over....

Thanks guys for pointing me in the right direction....I am off to climb under a rock......

Slogger Jogger

I'll join this club too. I'm a 2 time 3:01er with 24 other marathons in there too. This will be my 8th consecutive DCM. I was in good form for a good time last year but a last minute injury put paid to that. Most of my running is on the hills. Most of the racing I've ever done has been imra races. I'm going a bit more structured this time with the help of a mate who has done similarly in the last 2 years, and in doing so he's achieved great times, so I'm looking for a piece of that sub 3 action.

Schedule components. Monday, Wednesday are running fairly handy. Tuesday and Thursday have reps. Tuesday usually 2k reps. Thursday mainly 400s. Fridays are very easy. Saturday is steady, near MP and Sunday is LSR. The Tues, Thurs, Sat and Sun are the key ones.

I've been disciplined in the past but this will be new to me, as I need to make an effort to find flat ground for some of these sessions. Living surrounded by the hills in Wicklow is great, but you can't really do all your training on the hills.

Good luck to you all with your goals for autumn.

menoscemo

Did my first MP session (8 miles @ 7.15 after a 7 mile warm up) this morning and it went better than expected. Didn't really struggle and finished with a 7.11 average. Maybe my dreams of a sub 3'10 are not as outlandish as I thought.....

shels4ever

menoscemo wrote: »

Did my first MP session (8 miles @ 7.15 after a 7 mile warm up) this morning and it went better than expected. Didn't really struggle and finished with a 7.11 average. Maybe my dreams of a sub 3'10 are not as outlandish as I thought.....

Yep well done , only 19 more of them needed

heffsarmy

RunForestRun wrote: »

Too many 18 mile plus runs in the lead-up to a marathon can be counter-productive.

Why?

Gringo78

RunForestRun wrote: »

Too many 18 mile plus runs in the lead-up to a marathon can be counter-productive.

heffsarmy wrote: »

Why?

+1 For a 2:55 marathoner, an 18mile run with a few PMP miles thrown in is going to take in or around 2hrs and you should really be hitting that sort of a long run from very early in the marathon program.

However, since this marathon thread is for a range of times out to 3:20, then maybe at that pace 18 mile runs very early on might be a bit much considering they'd prob take bones of 2.5hrs. I couldn't really see them being counterproductive though if you've built up to them correctly? I intend on hitting 2 x 2hr sessions each week so at a minimum I will have at least one 18mile run each week, maybe 2. Some weeks will drop one because of a race or a step back.

Martin6.52

I have been reading training logs for the past 2 years and i've eventually decided to post. I suppose its time to commit to some sort of a plan for DCM'11.
I did my only marathon DCM'10 in 3.18. Cruised the first 20 miles at 7.30ish pace and hung on for last 6 miles. (i could not believe the pain in my legs when i finished!) I have continued through the winter with longish 12-14 mile LSR's.
My PB's to date are: 5k 18.04(june'11), 5 mile 30.32 (July'11), 10k 38.50 (May'11) , 10mile 65.02 (Oct'10) and HM 1.27.08 (June'11)
At the moment i am running 6 days a week at 50-55mile average with LSR of 16 miles last sunday. Will up this to 18 in 2 weeks and 20 and 22 before the taper. I do 6*250 speedwork on tuesdays and fartlek 10 miler on Thursdays.
I am happy enough with my short race PB's but dont seem to be improving greatly on the 10k to HM times.
My plan is to try for sub 3.08 this year and try for sub 3 next year.
I look forward to following this thread.

liamo123

Martin6.52 wrote: »

I have been reading training logs for the past 2 years and i've eventually decided to post. I suppose its time to commit to some sort of a plan for DCM'11.
I did my only marathon DCM'10 in 3.18. Cruised the first 20 miles at 7.30ish pace and hung on for last 6 miles. (i could not believe the pain in my legs when i finished!) I have continued through the winter with longish 12-14 mile LSR's.
My PB's to date are: 5k 18.04(june'11), 5 mile 30.32 (July'11), 10k 38.50 (May'11) , 10mile 65.02 (Oct'10) and HM 1.27.08 (June'11)
At the moment i am running 6 days a week at 50-55mile average with LSR of 16 miles last sunday. Will up this to 18 in 2 weeks and 20 and 22 before the taper. I do 6*250 speedwork on tuesdays and fartlek 10 miler on Thursdays.
I am happy enough with my short race PB's but dont seem to be improving greatly on the 10k to HM times.
My plan is to try for sub 3.08 this year and try for sub 3 next year.
I look forward to following this thread.

Martin dont sell urself short...Great time for ur 1st marathon and IMO sub 3 could b on for u this year... I was in a very similar situation to u last year ( except ur PB's are better !!) and broke 3 hours in Dublin... There's alot more qualified posters here to advise u but if ur training goes well ( maybe c how u feel running PMP's at 6.50ish ) for the next few months and u stay injury free go 4 it ... Are u running the 10miler and/or half marathon in Pheonix Pk ???

There are many posters here who have improved by 18mins and more in a 12 mth period...The fact that u continued ticking over in the winter will defo stand to u....

Also the great thing about Dublin is the quality of the pacers ( had to get that in as I'm one myself this year )... If u feel confident and willing to take a gamble stick with the 3hr lads and u never know maybe u can then have 2012 as ur sub 2.50 target !!...

I know alot can happen between now and 31st Oct but think about it....

Martin6.52

liamo123 wrote: »

Martin dont sell urself short...Great time for ur 1st marathon and IMO sub 3 could b on for u this year... I was in a very similar situation to u last year ( except ur PB's are better !!) and broke 3 hours in Dublin... There's alot more qualified posters here to advise u but if ur training goes well ( maybe c how u feel running PMP's at 6.50ish ) for the next few months and u stay injury free go 4 it ... Are u running the 10miler and/or half marathon in Pheonix Pk ???

There are many posters here who have improved by 18mins and more in a 12 mth period...The fact that u continued ticking over in the winter will defo stand to u....

Also the great thing about Dublin is the quality of the pacers ( had to get that in as I'm one myself this year )... If u feel confident and willing to take a gamble stick with the 3hr lads and u never know maybe u can then have 2012 as ur sub 2.50 target !!...

I know alot can happen between now and 31st Oct but think about it....

Thanks for the encouragement Liam. Not sure about this year, but will keep it in mind. Will be doing the HM in Phoenix park and probably another HM along the way. I usually run the 10 miler in Armagh in Oct as i seem to enjoy this race.10k next week so see how that goes. I did 8 mile on tuesday with 2 mile warm-up 4 mile at 6.40 and 2 mile warm down, 6.50 pace would definitely be doable at PMP.
2.50 marathon? If i get sub 3 i'll die happy, but hopefully not straight after the sub 3!

brownian

Delighted to see this thread - I'm hoping that it'll help to keep some training focus in August at least, when DCM seems far away but in fact the foundations need building up.

By the standard of most posters on this thread, I've already missed the boat, and am starting a month late. But that's my usual approach... did my first DCM on two week's training, but realise that's not ideal.

Anyway, here's the 2011 plan

- target time 2:54:xx
- PB (Conn 2011) 2:57:38
- done very little since that, apart from kayaking and eating.
- have never followed a book and probably won't this time either
- general plan is 2x10km, 1 x 15-20km per week for August, 2x10miles, 1x15-20miles September and first half of October. If I get my act together, will look at intervals in addition.

If there are people in the Dun Laoghaire/South Dublin area who want company on longer runs, drop me a PM. I tend to run about 4:20-4:30 a km, but happy to adjust (down, mainly:)) for the odd spin.