from public to private school to take leaving certificate

Gelena

Hi, All.
My son is in a public secondary school. He is doing well on his exams (he is on second year). But i'm not happy with his following progress during the year, because of most of the teachers don't give him ANY tests to check his progress. He doesn't have a lot of homework to do. If he has he's always finished it in FREE classes. But some times free classes can be a LOT (4 out of 8 classes). I thought secondary school has to be more difficult, more homework, more work.
Could you give me your opinion: is it a good idea to change school for the last 2 years? or let him stay till 6 year in the same school and then if he doesn't get enough points put him in a different school to repeat only 6 year.

I was thinking to put his name in Wesley college and St. Gerard's school. I heard something about 1st one, but nothing about 2nd one.

Maybe_Memories

Gelena wrote: »

Hi, All.
My son is in a public secondary school. He is doing well on his exams (he is on second year). But i'm not happy with his following progress during the year, because of most of the teachers don't give him ANY tests to check his progress. He doesn't have a lot of homework to do. If he has he's always finished it in FREE classes. But some times free classes can be a LOT (4 out of 8 classes). I thought secondary school has to be more difficult, more homework, more work.
Could you give me your opinion: is it a good idea to change school for the last 2 years? or let him stay till 6 year in the same school and then if he doesn't get enough points put him in a different school to repeat only 6 year.

I was thinking to put his name in Wesley college and St. Gerard's school. I heard something about 1st one, but nothing about 2nd one.

Well to be honest this isn't too out of the ordinary.. He;s only in second year. If this was the case in 5th year this would be a problem.
It's second year, he doesn't need to be working hours on end.

I did the bare minimum in first, second, and third year. I upped it a fair bit in 5th and 6th, and I did as well as I needed in my LC.
I got 490 points. I was 0.12% from getting 500.

So, in my opinion, leave him where he is, if the same kind of thing is going on in 5th year, then consider it, or just make him study at home.


And by the way, if you force him to change, although he'll be getting more work, he'll probably do less because he'll be trying to spite you for taking him away from his friends.

delta_bravo

Tests are not the only way to check a persons progress. If you're looking for him to do more work buy him a set of exam papers and get him to do a few questions.

carlyle

I'd personally recommend the Institute of Education.
It's on lesson street. I went there for 5th and 6th and it's brilliant.

In 5th year it's very intense and they gear students for the leaving immediately. I loved it personally because the teachers are amazing. They understand the exam and are truly dedicated to helping you along.

There is always activities like sport and debating teams for more personal development.

I have my leaving cert in June and feel quite prepared for it.

The fees are 6,400 for 5th year And I think 6,900 for 6th but it's well worth the money both for education but also its a good experience for growing up.

Hope that helps

mpdg

I reckon that it is too early to make a decision on whether to change schools. Fifth and Sixth Year are a million miles apart from Junior Cycle in terms of the volume of work you are expected to do. Looking at your son's current workload just isn't an accurate measure of how the school pushes the Seniors at all. Do you know any parents of older children in the school? Could you ask them about the impression they have of the school in regards preparing for the Leaving Cert?

Also, I would definitely be mindful of what MM said - don't move your son if he is unwilling or reluctant, it will only cause headaches. We young people can be terribly bitter.

J_E

Gelena wrote: »

He is doing well on his exams

What's the problem them? I think you're pushing it too hard for a second year.

implausible

Since when are exams the only measure of progress? Any teacher worth his/her salt can track the progress of their students throughout the year by marking homework and checking copies in class.

Gelena wrote: »

most of the teachers don't give him ANY tests to check his progress. He doesn't have a lot of homework to do. If he has he's always finished it in FREE classes. But some times free classes can be a LOT (4 out of 8 classes).

Make sure that this is the situation and not just your son's estimate of it. Did you raise your concerns at the parent-teacher meeting?

To be honest, I think you have very high expectations of what a 2nd year should be doing and I don't know if you're measuring this against your own experience of school or your other kids' experience. Second year can be a difficult year as students are no longer first years in awe of their surroundings and neither are they an exam class with all the pressure that brings and then you add hormones into the mix! My point is that I wouldn't be making judgements on the school or your son based on second year. It would make more sense to wait until Junior Cert.

red_red_wine

First and foremost, I would consider if your son is happy at his current school. Obviously, exam preparation is important, but it is more important that he is in a school where is feels comfortable, where he feels as if the teachers have some understanding of the students and where he has the support of friends.

The reason that I love my school (a public school, I'm in Leaving Cert) is first and foremost because of the sense of camaraderie. Although we are well prepared for the exams and the results are in general excellent, that is of far less importance to me than the fact that the school is a support system. My second-hand experience of private schools is that the atmosphere is often extremely competitive, with academic performance the top priority (I accept that this is a generalisation.) I know that my early teenage years (2nd/3rd year) would have been far more difficult had it not been for the fact that I genuinely liked my school.

Homework wise, I would not worry. The length of time spent doing homework is not a measure of how hard he is working/how hard the school is pushing him. I'm in 6th year, I rarely spend over an hour and a half to two hours doing homework, yet I still got well over the points required for my course.

You say that your son is doing fine in tests, that's an indication that there is no serious issue. He will presumably have summer exams, the results from those will alert you if there is a problem.

I would definitely wait until after Junior Cert, if you are intent on moving him. It would be very difficult to be uprooted during an exam year, it would be more stressful for him because the two schools would have covered different sections of the course and in 3rd year, going through the most turbulent period of adolescence, you have enough problems.

Most importantly, make the decision together with your son. Try and balance the personal/social and the academic sides of the situation.

J_E

deemark wrote: »

Since when are exams the only measure of progress? Any teacher worth his/her salt can track the progress of their students throughout the year by marking homework and checking copies in class.

Unfortunately in our education system, exams are the only measure of success.

implausible

Cydoniac wrote: »

Unfortunately in our education system, exams are the only measure of success.

They are the not the only measure of progress. And as for success, only Leaving Cert counts and that is quite a few years away for the OP's son.

J_E

deemark wrote: »

They are the not the only measure of progress. And as for success, only Leaving Cert counts and that is quite a few years away for the OP's son.

Okay, point taken. OP should probably bring it up at the next parent/teacher meeting and see how the exams go. Still though, their child is only in second year, don't expect huge amounts of work.

Gelena

carlyle wrote: »

I'd personally recommend the Institute of Education.
It's on lesson street. I went there for 5th and 6th and it's brilliant.
Hope that helps

I was thinking about the same, but it's miles away from a home. He can spend an hour or more to get in there...

Gelena

Cydoniac wrote: »

What's the problem them? I think you're pushing it too hard for a second year.

He is my oldest and it's a very new experience for him and for me...:rolleyes:

deemark wrote: »

Did you raise your concerns at the parent-teacher meeting?

Yes, I had... just before Christmas. Some of the teachers were very good and gave all information I was needed, but most of them... it was looked like they've knew only last year Xmas results. I was very disappointed...:(

implausible

Gelena wrote: »

Yes, I had... just before Christmas. Some of the teachers were very good and gave all information I was needed, but most of them... it was looked like they've knew only last year Xmas results. I was very disappointed...:(

Do you mind me asking if you're originally from Ireland? There are some students in my school who are originally from Poland and they think that school in Ireland is a lot easier. Some of their parents were amazed to learn that their child didn't have to repeat the year when they didn't do well in their exams!

Maybe_Memories

To be honest, a student can essentially do nothing from first to third year and come out with 600 points.

NotExactly

Maybe_Memories wrote: »

To be honest, a student can essentially do nothing from first to third year and come out with 600 points.

True. But if they didn't read or write for three years it would be pretty difficult :rolleyes: I think almost everyone is capable of getting 600 points and that natural intelligence isn't required.

Maybe_Memories

NotExactly wrote: »

True. But if they didn't read or write for three years it would be pretty difficult :rolleyes: I think almost everyone is capable of getting 600 points and that natural intelligence isn't required.

Also true. And that's the problem with our education system :rolleyes:

randylonghorn

Gelena wrote: »

Hi, All.
My son is in a public secondary school. He is doing well on his exams (he is on second year).

If he does well in exams, and the school generally has good results in JC and LC, then there is unlikely to be much of a problem.

Gelena wrote: »

But i'm not happy with his following progress during the year, because of most of the teachers don't give him ANY tests to check his progress.

As deemark (who is herself a teacher) said, teachers have many ways of evaluating the progress of students, and while formal tests have a place, many would feel that constant tests, especially as early as second year, are just stress-creators. When I was in secondary school myself, we had Christmas and summer tests ... that was it. But we were constantly graded on essays, homework, etc., and received feedback on teachers on these ... especially if they thought we were under-performing.

Gelena wrote: »

He doesn't have a lot of homework to do. If he has he's always finished it in FREE classes. But some times free classes can be a LOT (4 out of 8 classes). I thought secondary school has to be more difficult, more homework, more work.

That does sound like a fair few free classes, if accurate. It does sound *possible* that he's exaggerating somewhat and rushing off homework when he gets a chance ... would your son be quite bright and capable of coasting somewhat at this stage, yet still keep on top of things and get good marks?

Not that I would consider that a major problem if true, given that he's only in second year, but it would be one to keep an eye on next year which is an exam year ... bad habits learned in junior cycle can be hard to break in senior cycle, and he may assume he can continue to coast and then find himself struggling to do as well as he could.

Gelena wrote: »

Could you give me your opinion: is it a good idea to change school for the last 2 years? or let him stay till 6 year in the same school and then if he doesn't get enough points put him in a different school to repeat only 6 year.

I was thinking to put his name in Wesley college and St. Gerard's school. I heard something about 1st one, but nothing about 2nd one.

Ok, let's remind ourself that he's doing well in his exams, so there isn't a major problem certainly.

Is he happy in the school? Has he good friends there? Does he go out in the morning without a struggle?

If so, you may want to think very carefully before disrupting that. It's difficult enough for any youngster to change schools mid-stream, especially mid-cycle. And the reality is that a happy student performs better academically, all other things being equal; not to mention is ... well, *happy*, which is important too!

My advice would be to keep an eye on things, but not to rush into anything.

And involve your son in any decisions or changes or even discussions re: same ... while he's too young to have total control over his own life, he's certainly old enough to have a major input into any such decisions.

LoonyLovegood

I moved school for fifth year, and it was a pretty good decision. I wasn't happy in my old school, and the teachers didn't work with me. They were only interested in getting a C average.
I think you should talk it through with your son. Is he happy in his school? Does he know what he wants to do? Class tests aren't the ONLY means of checking progress. Even in my old school, we were regularly graded on homework pieces.

Gelena

Thank you everybody for your answers. It's difficult to make a final decision, but we have still a couple of years ahead.
Things are he is not boy who can make a friends very easy, he has a couple of buddies but that's it. He had experiencea moving school when he was in primary school. It was the best decision I've ever made. The school was a brilliant and he had very good friends over there, but all of them went to so many different private schools.
Different thing that I need to think his age.... how difficult can be going to a new school with different rules, different teachers and students.
I was thinking to put his name in St. Gerards college, Bray.
Maybe somebody knows something about this school. Please let me know

Maybe_Memories

Gelena wrote: »

how difficult can be going to a new school with different rules, different teachers and students.

Very. If he doesn't mix well where he is he's not going to mix well after being moved to a completely new environment.

I don't mean this in a blunt or offensive way, but you don't seem to be listening to what everyone is saying: he's only in second year, he needs to live a little and not spend all his time working. And at this stage of his life moving him will only mean bad things.

I know you're only doing what you think is best for him, but in this case it might not be whats best for him.

Gelena

I'm listening and listening VERY careful. All of you have more experience then I do. I just try to look on every aspect in this situation. In Ireland moving a child from school to the school is very difficult, because everywere (especially in a really good school) there are waiting lists. And if I will see that my son really needs to change school in the middle or at the end of 5th year wouldn't be it so late for it. I wouldn't have enough time to find a proper school for him.
I had a bad expiriene with putting him in a regular secondary school. He didn't have a place until the last minute.
And In private schools we need to pay a fee when applying for a place. It's not cheap as well.... I hope you understand what I meant.
Thank you very much for your help. You just help me to look closer to the "problem". I think I let him stay till end of the 5th year in the same school and then he can allways repeat (if he needs it) it in some other school.:D

Maybe_Memories

Gelena wrote: »

I think I let him stay till end of the 5th year in the same school and then he can allways repeat (if he needs it) it in some other school.:D

Very good idea

chicgroovy101

This sounds exactly like our school! Lots of free classes, not too much homework etc.
Im doing my leaving cert this year and have worked consistantly throughout my 6 years at school. I got very good Junior Cert results and I'm looking for a very good Leaving Cert because I know Im capable of it.
Saying all this though I do my own study at home regardless of when we have tests etc. and I always have done.
I don't know where you are located but I know Yeats College in Galway City is a fantastic private school for 5th and 6th years. My friend is going there at the moment and is leaps and bounds ahead of me, even though previously when she was in a public school she wouldn't have been.
So I went to this college to do a revision course at easter and I can honestly say that it puts public schools to shame. In a week it was obvious that the teachers are just class - theres no other word for it! Apart from that their notes they gave were super and explanations in class made the hardest things so simple!
I know if you attend full time then it is compulsory to do evening study Mon - Thurs for 3 hours, also plenty of valuble homework given and apparently the class tests/mocks really put you to the test! Having given the opportunity I would have loved to have been sent to a school like this as I really feel that it would make a different to my results at the end of the day.

spurious

If he has good support at home and parents who wish him to do well, he will do well wherever you send him, fee paying or not. A bright child who is happy will do well anywhere.

Save your money for taking the kid out at weekends. He'll be old before you know it and gone.

Doug89

All the talk of grind schools - the Institute, Yeats College, etc etc is making my blood boil. I really can't stand them. A school is supposed to be more than just exams, and I really think that students in grind schools are treated like machines. I really can't stand them, people see them as this be all to end all, and that by going to them that they'll have all their problems solved. They won't. The work has to be done by you at the end of the day.

If your son is happy, leave him be. He's only in second year.

St Gerard's in Bray has a good reputation, but I would see it as fairly snobby a school to be honest from what I've heard of it. Very competitive and my daddy does this etc etc.

I personally went to Presentation College Terenure. VEC school, gotten a bad reputation of late (although they changed the principal last year and I hear the place has turned around), did my LC in 2007 and got 520. Happy out.

Yes, at the end of the day we want points, but I think the whole picture needs to be looked at.

mpdg

Doug89 wrote: »

All the talk of grind schools - the Institute, Yeats College, etc etc is making my blood boil. I really can't stand them. A school is supposed to be more than just exams, and I really think that students in grind schools are treated like machines. I really can't stand them, people see them as this be all to end all, and that by going to them that they'll have all their problems solved. They won't. The work has to be done by you at the end of the day.

In my experience, students are treated less like machines that you'd imagine. The Leaving Cert is a rote-learning-based failure of a system and the grind schools are merely accommodating that. The issue should not be with a school that focuses on the Leaving solely - it is only a symptom of the cause, which is the Leaving Cert itself.
Few people are as delusional to think that going to a grind school guarantees them a place in medicine/whathaveyou. Some spoiled adolescent for whom everything in life has fallen into his/her lap may work under that impression, but if you have any sense about you, you'd realise that knowing you have a folder of notes from a great teacher is not the same as knowing the information.