Would you get your child baptised?

partyatmygaff

Pace2008 wrote: »

You've either miscontrued his post or you're quoting him completely out of context.

Not quite.

He was replying to

"Most people who post don't do enough care in distinguishing between Catholicism and religion. Both are different. Roman Catholicism is a particular denomination of Christianity, religion is a general term to describe religions (plural). For too many people in discussing this Roman Catholicism <==> religion or Roman Catholicism <==> Christianity. This creates problems in having an accurate discussion about the subject."

I wholeheartedly agree with what philologos said. It's embarrassing when people confuse Roman Catholicism with Christianity or Religion as a whole.

Dusty87

Crosáidí wrote: »

Since it's communion season... would you get your (future) children baptised and go through the childhood catholic rituals with them even if you aren't a practising catholic.

I myself wouldn't like to have my child baptised, I don't personally like the hypocracy of not caring about religion and then putting that on to my child, the only thing is you may need to get them a place into the local school and so on

seriously dude, its not the 50's. Being catholic dosn get you into schools anymore. Im catholic, i do rarely go to mass, but we got our 18mnth old daughter baptised. If she wants to practice the religion when she's older she can. If not, fair enough. Im not goin to stop her or whatever religion she chooses. When she's old enough il know what she wants. For someone who dosn practice religion i spent an hour in the chapel in temple street last week while she was undergoing surgery. I dont understand why religion comes up on AH so much. Who really gives a fcuk? Not me.

philologos

Zamboni wrote: »

All variations on a theme.
Unnecessary misguided fictional attempts at explaining the world we find ourselves in.

That's your opinion, nothing more nothing less. However, it is fair to say even if it is all fiction that the messages of each differ considerably. Denominations of Christianity not so much, but in terms of heirarchy, structure, and attitudes to certain things such as the involvement of women, contraceptives and secondary issues there is difference.

Even if we mention religions as a phenomena that proclaim fiction as truth (and I'm happy to do this on a rhetorical level) we must admit that there are quite a few different breeds and sub-breeds within the huge subject of religion.

Biggins

Dusty87 wrote: »

seriously dude, its not the 50's. Being catholic dosn get you into schools anymore...

I'm sorry but I have to interrupt your ongoing debate with someone at that very point.

I have spoken to a number of parents myself who have applied to schools in my general area and have been asked to produce baptismal certs in order to apply to the next stage of school placement.
When the said parents couldn't produce one for the school secretaries/people, they were declined and turned away.
Immediately some of the excuses was that all places were full up - yet remarkably days/weeks later news filtered out that others who could later produce bap' certs, did indeed gain places.

I have spoken to many parents through "Educate Together" meets and in other child areas that have come across this still on going fiasco.

Dusty87 wrote: »

...Being catholic dosn get you into schools anymore...

You've no idea how wrong at times that statement is still.

old hippy

Biggins wrote: »

I'm sorry but I have to interrupt your ongoing debate with someone at that very point.

I have spoken to a number of parents myself who have applied to schools in my general area and have been asked to produce baptismal certs in order to apply to the next stage of school placement.
When the said parents couldn't produce one for the school secretaries/people, they were declined and turned away.
Immediately some of the excuses was that all places were full uo - yet remarkably days/weeks later news filtered out that others who did later produce bap' certs, did indeed gain later places.

I have spoken to many parents through "Educate Together" meets and in other child areas that have come across this still on going fiasco.



You've no idea how wrong at times that statement is still.

So true. To get their kid in school my sister had to do the baptism thing - even though she nor hubby are remotely religious.

Dusty87

Biggins, thats fair enough. And i dont know of your area obviously but im just saying of my area. When i was there it was nothing only local irish children. Now i see blacks, packistanis, catholic, protestant, basically every race and religion there. And yes it is a catholic school. We've even our own patron saint day which the communion and sports day is on etc is on. The other kids just dont take part in the communion part. If thats the case in your area then its wrong, but its not the case here. Could you not follow it up if your child is not allowed in, because they dont have a bap cert??

Dusty87

old hippy wrote: »

So true. To get their kid in school my sister had to do the baptism thing - even though she nor hubby are remotely religious.

seriously? To get her in to the school?? Thats wrong in fairness. She's a child. Didn think that sh1t still went on.

Zamboni

partyatmygaff wrote: »

I wholeheartedly agree with what philologos said. It's embarrassing when people confuse Roman Catholicism with Christianity or Religion as a whole.

Who is confusing Roman Catholicism with Christianity or Religion?
Or is that just a general statement that you are embarrassed by ignorant/poorly educated people?

old hippy

Dusty87 wrote: »

Biggins, thats fair enough. And i dont know of your area obviously but im just saying of my area. When i was there it was nothing only local irish children. Now i see blacks, packistanis, catholic, protestant, basically every race and religion there. And yes it is a catholic school. We've even our own patron saint day which the communion and sports day is on etc is on. The other kids just dont take part in the communion part. If thats the case in your area then its wrong, but its not the case here. Could you not follow it up if your child is not allowed in, because they dont have a birth cert??

You can tell a catholic/protestant on sight? Impressive

I went to school in the 70s and 80s and we had a myriad of humanity there; not so surprising in one place (multidenom.) but a school I attended in the 70s had a buddhist and a CoI in the one class and that school had a catholic ethos to it. I know the CoI kid was of that denomination because one of the teachers beat him up in confirmation class, only to be told by angry parents that he would not be taking part as he was CoI...

Beat him up. Over prayers. I don't miss the 70s, I tell you!

Biggins

Dusty87 wrote: »

...Could you not follow it up if your child is not allowed in, because they dont have a bap cert??

Knowing its possible discrimination and proving it is very hard at local levels.
All one individual school can say off-hand is that "Aaa... well, places turned up by chance later" or excuses to that effect.
After that it become a further legal nightmare to try and solve - and some schools know this and also know many parents turned away will not pursue this discrimination because of said hassle.

old hippy

Dusty87 wrote: »

seriously? To get her in to the school?? Thats wrong in fairness. She's a child. Didn think that sh1t still went on.

Yeah it's wrong all right - it's a kind of unspoken rule and it stinks to high heaven (no pun intended).

I understand my sis & hub's motives - they want the best for their kid but all the same, this system is wrong.

partyatmygaff

Zamboni wrote: »

Who is confusing Roman Catholicism with Christianity or Religion?
Or is that just a general statement that you are embarrassed by ignorant/poorly educated people?

A lot of people confuse the two. At times, certain people confuse RCC with Christianity as a whole or Religion as a whole.

dvpower

Dusty87 wrote: »

Could you not follow it up if your child is not allowed in, because they dont have a bap cert??

There's nothing that can be done about it. Schools are allowed to discriminate based on religion under a specific exclusion in (I think) the Equal Status Act.

Pace2008

old hippy wrote: »

You can tell a catholic/protestant on sight? Impressive

My Ma's a Nordie and she claims she can identify them by appearance as well. Says Protestants are often sallower. No idea if there's any truth to it.

dvpower

partyatmygaff wrote: »

A lot of people confuse the two. At times, certain people confuse RCC with Christianity as a whole or Religion as a whole.

I think most people on here are Catholics (or were Catholics) so they just use Religion as a shorthand for Catholicism. I doubt people really don't know the difference (although I did come across someone who said they were Catholic but insisted they weren't Christian).

Rabidlamb

Yesterday was communion day & we were invited to a neighbours house for a party for their daughter.
I made a comment that there would be less of these in the future cause of the reduction in baptisms.
One of the old biddys got worked up saying it awful that children would grow up without a sense of belonging.
Then my wife told her that none of her 4 siblings nor any of her friends had baptized any of their children.
She would have reacted to lepers better, the Christian way perhaps.

partyatmygaff

dvpower wrote: »

I think most people on here are Catholics (or were Catholics) so they just use Religion as a shorthand for Catholicism.

Then that should be changed. Roman Catholicism is not the only denomination of Christianity.

I doubt people really don't know the difference (although I did come across someone who said they were Catholic but insisted they weren't Christian).

/facepalm

philologos

dvpower wrote: »

I think most people on here are Catholics (or were Catholics) so they just use Religion as a shorthand for Catholicism. I doubt people really don't know the difference (although I did come across someone who said they were Catholic but insisted they weren't Christian).

It's problematic then because if people say that they are Christians people assume they mean Catholics. If we situate our terms correctly we won't have to get into this issue. You're right though, it's a cultural mistake.

old hippy

Pace2008 wrote: »

My Ma's a Nordie and she claims she can identify them by appearance as well. Says Protestants are often sallower. No idea if there's any truth to it.

LOL! I wonder what she'd make of me

I'm reminded of the time when two Christian ladies rang the bell on a Sat morning and asked me about Jesus coming back. I listened for a minute, smiled and politely told them that I wasn't christian. The talkative one furrowed her brow and said in acrid tones "yes, I can see that" and marched off.

PeterIanStaker

No way would I put a child through baptism or any of the other stupid rituals just because older members of society would expect me to. If I ever spawn, they'll make up their own minds about belief or lack thereof when they're able to do so for themselves and not have it forced on them. I was made go through all the motions as a young fella, just to please the old sticks in the mud, and my ould pair don't believe any of that sh!te.

wmpdd3

'No' is currently at 56%,

so why do I get sorrowful comments, when I say I won't be baptising my little one?

'Just for convenience' is at 11.5%, seems to me more should be in that category.

partyatmygaff

wmpdd3 wrote: »

'No' is currently at 56%,

so why do I get sorrowful comments, when I say I won't be baptising my little one?

'Just for convenience' is at 11.5%, seems to me more should be in that category.

AH is not representative of Ireland as a whole.

LisaLee

No. If they want to join the Catholic Church (or any other religion) when they're old enough to decide then off with them. It shouldn't be up to me to make the choice for them.

JohnMarston

Without reading previous posts, let me submit my opinion:

Baptism is a public declaration to a faith and its set of beliefs. How can a child, much less a baby, accept beliefs of which they have little to no understanding?

And for those who voted 'for convenience', do explain.

xsiborg

xsiborg wrote: »

but i did want my son baptised a catholic, and not for finances, or schools, etc, but because i would like him to follow in my faith.

I'm curious as to what makes you think this is a good idea. Do you not feel that perhaps your son should be allowed to make up his own mind? If your religion is worth being involved in, then surely he will decide to do so when he is of age and capable of making the decision for himself.

JohnMarston wrote:

Baptism is a public declaration to a faith and its set of beliefs. How can a child, much less a baby, accept beliefs of which they have little to no understanding?

A child cannot have religious beliefs; they do not understand religion and are - for the most part - incapable of comprehending the questions which drive people to have faith.

Krusader

JohnMarston wrote: »

Without reading previous posts, let me submit my opinion:

Baptism is a public declaration to a faith and its set of beliefs. How can a child, much less a baby, accept beliefs of which they have little to no understanding?

And for those who voted 'for convenience', do explain.

to get into a school, church wedding, child won't feel left out etc.

Mike 1972

Crosáidí wrote: »

to get into a school, church wedding, child won't feel left out etc.

Do you have any Good reasons ?

Krusader

I said 'no'

Wibbs

They seem pretty good reasons to a new parent in Ireland to be fair. Less than they were before but still.

heidi_ho

I did. I am a some what believer but not a church goer if that makes sense. I don't agree with the priests sermon really and certain aspects so i guess i don't know what i am!

Anyway I had baby baptised not because I believed that rubbish either about child born stained and full of sin. Thats not right. But my baby was born premature and sick so I wanted her blessed. Did it as soon as I could when she was 6 weeks. Thank God she's perfect since

Remember this sad story on the radio about this poor woman whose child had died and had not been baptised but they wouldn't let the child be buried in the graveyard because of it or about the headstone. Thats not right either. Poor people at times of such sadness and grief to be faced with that crap.