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Would you get your child baptised?

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    #152
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    tallaghtmick wrote: »
    my son was baptised but only because i wanted to give him the choice of religion and i hope that he like myself comes to his own conclusion on religion.i wont push religion on him and i wont push athiesm on him either
    ...But (and I mention this with the greatest of respect and non-wish to appear to be singling yourself out in particular) in such cases as you have outlined, he has no other official choice now.
    He's signed up to one now and now to this day they do and will officially refuse to let him go.
    He might have choice in theory and in heart but as far as the state will record for the rest of his life, he's stuck with just one organisation - for ever.


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    #153
    AudreyHepburn
    Registered Users Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    Ghost Buster wrote: »
    It sure hasnt. You are an astounding catholic. Dont believe in transubstantiation, resurrection, virgin births and probably not baptism either. No harm at all.........

    Not going there again.

    Get over it.


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    #154
    tallaghtmick
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,724 ✭✭✭tallaghtmick


    Nevore wrote: »
    That doesn't make sense to me. Surely if your motive was to give him a choice, you let him decide himself at 18 or whatever? Or are you going to perform all the rituals traditionally performed on minors in other religions? Circumcision etc? :confused:

    well he wont be thought in school if hes not baptised,also his mother is a believer and wants him to have a communion and confo


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    #155
    Ghost Buster
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,172 ✭✭✭Ghost Buster


    tallaghtmick wrote: »
    well he wont be thought in school if hes not baptised,also his mother is a believer and wants him to have a communion and confo

    Yes he will as far as i know. My unbaptised child attends the local Catholic school and was never asked for a baptism cert. I also made it quite clear from the outset that he van stay in class for all the prayers and witch-craft but would not be attending Communion and Confirmation rituals.


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    #156
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Ghost Buster wrote: »
    ...he van stay in class for all the prayers and witch-craft...
    :pac: :pac: :pac:

    Sorry but I had to laugh.
    I got an immediate picture in my mind of an African witch-doctor dancing and doing his stuff at the top of a class!

    Yes, I need help! :pac:


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    #157
    partyatmygaff
    Registered Users Posts: 10,992 ✭✭✭✭partyatmygaff


    Biggins wrote: »
    ...But (and I mention this with the greatest of respect and non-wish to appear to be singling yourself out in particular) in such cases as you have outlined, he has no other official choice now.
    He's signed up to one now and now to this day they do and will officially refuse to let him go.
    He might have choice in theory and in heart but as far as the state will record for the rest of his life, he's stuck with just one organisation - for ever.
    If said person really was adamant about leaving the RCC they could quite easily convert to any other Religion and then just leave that.

    It would be a lot easier than constantly complaining about how they're "stuck" for life.


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    #158
    Jaxxy
    Registered Users Posts: 4,297 ✭✭✭Jaxxy


    partyatmygaff wrote: »
    If said person really was adamant about leaving the RCC they could quite easily convert to any other Religion and then just leave that.

    It would be a lot easier than constantly complaining about how they're "stuck" for life.

    That's not really the point though. Why should someone have to convert to another religion just to leave one? As Biggins has already said, you should be able to leave as you please.


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    #159
    AudreyHepburn
    Registered Users Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    JaxxYChicK wrote: »
    That's not really the point though. Why should someone have to convert to another religion just to leave one? As Biggins has already said, you should be able to leave as you please.

    They don't have to do anything of the sort afaik.


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    #160
    NTMK
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,575 ✭✭✭NTMK


    hondasam wrote: »
    what happens if one is a practising catholic who will not marry in a registry office ? That was my point.

    same when it comes to baptism one parent wants it and the other doesn't care, someone has to compromise.

    You can find a priest who doesnt give a ****;)


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    #161
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    partyatmygaff wrote: »
    If said person really was adamant about leaving the RCC they could quite easily convert to any other Religion and then just leave that.
    It would be a lot easier than constantly complaining about how they're "stuck" for life.
    They should able to just leave. End of story.


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    #162
    partyatmygaff
    Registered Users Posts: 10,992 ✭✭✭✭partyatmygaff


    JaxxYChicK wrote: »
    That's not really the point though. Why should someone have to convert to another religion just to leave one? As Biggins has already said, you should be able to leave as you please.
    You should be but you can't for whatever reason. That's a problem. The solution to the problem is so trivially simple that it makes the "problem" a non-issue in practice.


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    #163
    o1s1n
    Registered Users Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    Biggins wrote: »
    They should able to just leave. End of story.

    'Sorry, you can't quit our gym unless you join a new one'

    'I JUST WANT TO QUIT THE GYM!'


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    #164
    Jaxxy
    Registered Users Posts: 4,297 ✭✭✭Jaxxy


    partyatmygaff wrote: »
    You should be but you can't for whatever reason. That's a problem. The solution to the problem is so trivially simple that it makes the "problem" a non-issue in practice.

    I don't believe in any religion. Why should I have to join another to leave one? Surely that impedes on my human rights? I understand what you're saying but for some people in practice this would not be a non-issue.


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    #165
    redz11
    Registered Users Posts: 198 ✭✭redz11


    I'm an atheist but my boyfriend and both our families are Catholic.

    There'll definitely be rows about it when/if we ever do have kids, as I know that himself and the grandparents would do their best to insist on a baptism. It's just not something I'd be willing to consider. It would be totally hypocritical of me to get up in a church in front of my family and friends and lie about how I'm going to bring up my child. Anyways, as the child gets old enough to inform themselves about religion and what they believe, he/she can always decide to get baptised at any stage of their lives - but if you baptise them as a baby, they're officially Catholic for life, and that can't be changed. (Have to admit, I'd be a wee bit disappointed if a well-educated child who wasn't brainwashed with the whole Catholic thing while growing up would actually choose to be baptised - I'd just have to accept it though!)

    It's mad that in this day and age Catholicism is still forced upon children in schools. It must be pretty scary and confusing for children from non-religious families to basically learn that they'll go to hell for being a "heathen" or whatever, and then to be told at home that what the teachers are saying is wrong. Religion should have absolutely no place in education, as far as I'm concerned, and it's disgraceful that Catholic beliefs are still being taught to kids as "facts" in most of the schools in this country. Hopefully that'll change in the next few years.


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    #166
    partyatmygaff
    Registered Users Posts: 10,992 ✭✭✭✭partyatmygaff


    JaxxYChicK wrote: »
    I don't believe in any religion. Why should I have to join another to leave one? Surely that impedes on my human rights? I understand what you're saying but for some people in practice this would not be a non-issue.
    You do not believe in any Religion, correct?

    Tell them that you have converted to another religion and refuse to say which one. Or to simplify matters just name any religion that comes to your mind. If you do not believe in any religion then a procedure like that is trivial.


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    #167
    Blowfish
    Registered Users Posts: 5,112 ✭✭✭Blowfish


    AudreyHepburn wrote: »
    They don't have to do anything of the sort afaik.
    They do. The Catholic church no longer allows defection.


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    #168
    losthorizon
    Registered Users Posts: 4,565 ✭✭✭losthorizon


    Can I point out that the questions are a bit silly as protestents get Baptised as well (if they want).


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    #169
    Jaxxy
    Registered Users Posts: 4,297 ✭✭✭Jaxxy


    partyatmygaff wrote: »
    You do not believe in any Religion, correct?

    Tell them that you have converted to another religion and refuse to say which one. Or to simplify matters just name any religion that comes to your mind. If you do not believe in any religion then a procedure like that is trivial.

    To be honest I'd love to know what the official procedure is when claiming defection and how effective it actually is. It was mentioned earlier in the thread that in order to convert to Judaism you needed a letter from the Catholic church, which they apparently won't give to you.

    If I could get away with it I'd probably have no problem telling them that I plan to fly away to Yavin IV and become a Jedi, so long as they let me loose.


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    #170
    AudreyHepburn
    Registered Users Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    Blowfish wrote: »
    They do. The Catholic church no longer allows defection.

    That article also acknowledges that it does not change the fact that people can and will still defect, albeit not formally.

    No-one can drag you kicking and screaming into a church/mosque/synagouge if you don't want to go.


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    #171
    cocokay
    Registered Users Posts: 160 ✭✭cocokay


    why would you baptise your children into a religion if you yourself are non-practising of that religion? you are supposed to bring your child to mass etc but people just baptise their kids cause "its the done thing" then they don't see a church again till communion & confirmation (ker-ching!) when it turns into a fashion show for the kids and a total piss up for the parents & relations. my best friend doesn't go to mass or have anything to do with catholicism but got her daughter baptised because her mother would have had a fit if she hadn't and she honestly thought granny would sneak off with the baby and get her "done" herself!!
    shocking


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    #172
    Coriolanus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,879 ✭✭✭Coriolanus


    JaxxYChicK wrote: »
    To be honest I'd love to know what the official procedure is when claiming defection and how effective it actually is. It was mentioned earlier in the thread that in order to convert to Judaism you needed a letter from the Catholic church, which they apparently won't give to you.

    If I could get away with it I'd probably have no problem telling them that I plan to fly away to Yavin IV and become a Jedi, so long as they let me loose.
    They withdrew the procedure by which you could defect sometime last year. As of now there is no way to defect.


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    #173
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Nevore wrote: »
    They withdrew the procedure by which you could defect sometime last year. As of now there is no way to defect.
    Yep.

    http://www.countmeout.ie/suspension/


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    #174
    Blowfish
    Registered Users Posts: 5,112 ✭✭✭Blowfish


    AudreyHepburn wrote: »
    That article also acknowledges that it does not change the fact that people can and will still defect, albeit not formally.
    Which is effectively pointless. All it means is that they will allow you to tell them you no longer want to be a member, but that they'll quite happily ignore it and still count you as one anyway.


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    #175
    Jaxxy
    Registered Users Posts: 4,297 ✭✭✭Jaxxy


    Nevore wrote: »
    They withdrew the procedure by which you could defect sometime last year. As of now there is no way to defect.

    In that case then I remain appalled at the manipulative audacity of the Catholic church to impinge on my basic human right to choose what, if anything, I believe.


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    #176
    krudler
    Registered Users Posts: 34,788 ✭✭✭✭krudler


    JaxxYChicK wrote: »
    To be honest I'd love to know what the official procedure is when claiming defection and how effective it actually is. It was mentioned earlier in the thread that in order to convert to Judaism you needed a letter from the Catholic church, which they apparently won't give to you.

    If I could get away with it I'd probably have no problem telling them that I plan to fly away to Yavin IV and become a Jedi, so long as they let me loose.

    massive props for naming one of the unobvious Star Wars planets btw :pac:


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    #177
    Tis_yer_woman
    Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭Tis_yer_woman


    So what if the Catholic church no longer allows defection?
    If you no longer regard yourself as a Catholic, then so be it. Religion is a personal choice.
    Okay, from a statistical perspective there are false numbers being held somewhere. But as far as I was aware, there have been a large number of
    people who were recorded as Catholics (cos they were baptised) but would not regard themselves as RC anymore but they didn't officially 'defect' at
    a time when they could. Finally, who would take these statistics seriously if they have been suspended at a time when there is a serious falloff in followers?


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    #178
    HUNK
    Closed Accounts Posts: 383 ✭✭HUNK


    Sure you should probably just let your child decide for themselves when they're old enough. Baptism thing is a little silly since they are too young to decide yet.

    The whole idea that your child might feel left out as they get older won't really be a problem. I reckon as the years progress, less and less people will baptise their kids, and religious schools will become fewer and fewer. We seem to be getting more and more relaxed about this whole religion thing which is good.

    Lets be fair, religion shouldn't really have any weight in schools in this day and age. You can easily practice your religion at home, or at a place of worship (church building). Your religion/faith should be more of a private matter so lets try and not cement it with education.


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    #179
    krudler
    Registered Users Posts: 34,788 ✭✭✭✭krudler


    AudreyHepburn wrote: »
    That article also acknowledges that it does not change the fact that people can and will still defect, albeit not formally.

    No-one can drag you kicking and screaming into a church/mosque/synagouge if you don't want to go.

    Well given the leader of the Catholic church was a Nazi, but officially not by choice, is he still part of the Nazi party?


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    #180
    Coriolanus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,879 ✭✭✭Coriolanus


    JaxxYChicK wrote: »
    In that case then I remain appalled at the manipulative audacity of the Catholic church to impinge on my basic human right to choose what, if anything, I believe.
    Mhmm. I was none too happy with the defection anyway, since it didn't allow the expurgation of your baptismal record, only it's alteration to read "defected" (presumably stamped on in red ink, like a top secret stamp in the movies :pac:) but now they don't allow you even that little solace.

    Kicking myself that I didn't take advantage of hte opportunity when I had it.


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    #181
    partyatmygaff
    Registered Users Posts: 10,992 ✭✭✭✭partyatmygaff


    JaxxYChicK wrote: »
    In that case then I remain appalled at the manipulative audacity of the Catholic church to impinge on my basic human right to choose what, if anything, I believe.
    They aren't choosing your beliefs for you.

    What they have is a baptismal register listing all those who were baptised. If you were indeed baptised then being included on the register of all those baptised by the church in question is (To my mind at least) perfectly acceptable.

    I do not see how it infringes on your right to choose your beliefs. Neither can I understand why you are so appalled. By virtue of the very post of yours that I quoted, there can be no question of infringement of rights. At the end of the day, it is yourself and not a register that determines your beliefs.


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