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Would you get your child baptised?

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    #242
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    Biggins wrote: »
    Simple easy quick example: ask any teen if they always do what their parents tell them or want them to do - and thats just to start with!

    If I can cut this here. This is a great example that really speaks a lot into my situation. You're right, many teenagers push the boundaries. I know I did.

    What is great about that time is we can think about some of the boundaries we pushed then and if it was the best thing to test those boundaries. I found that it wasn't in the vast majority of cases where I did. I believe the cases where I did this to be mistakes of mine, and indeed wrong. Although I think they were wrong, I am glad that I learned from doing this.

    It was through my own independent thinking that I decided to follow Christianity. It made a lot of sense to me, therefore I decided to. A logical conclusion to much of what I did prior to this when I was pressing the boundaries.

    Sometimes the freedom we have can lead us to unexpected places.


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    #243
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    partyatmygaff wrote: »
    ...I was speaking about how your provision of "freedom to independently assess..." is meaningless at such a young age.
    Indeed it would be which is which I said that when they later reach a more mature teen age or beyond, they can be taken with more contention as to their own eventual conclusions, which also would probably not be as open to frequent change based additionally on mood swings or any other younger irrelevant but often intruding factor.
    partyatmygaff wrote: »
    What I am saying here essentially is that this "greater freedom to independently assess e.t.c." is meaningless. At such a young age very few if any children would be inclined to let alone able to "independently assess and come to their own conclusions" about something such as religion. They won't even think about it until they're at an age where such provision of freedom by their parents is completely meaningless. A crude analogy would be you telling your children that the moon landing was faked.
    ...But thats part of my point which you yourself brought up.
    So they come to me at a very, very young age, I listen to what they say, think and give them honest answers. They can take those words (if any) and add them to an eventual compounded amount of information that later in years will result hopefully in a formulated and wise decision. be it one I agree with or not.
    partyatmygaff wrote: »
    ...You are allowing your children the "freedom to independently asses and come to their own conclusions" but they are at such an age where such freedom is largely wasted. By the time they begin to actually independently assess questions and come to their own conclusions your provision of freedom will be irrelevant.
    Better their freedoms to question and examine be wasted than not have any at all or be constricted in using those abilities from within a tighter enforced regime - one they had no choice in whatsoever already.

    At the end of the day and day of debate, we (wifey and I) have decided to allow them to seek the answers they want from the outside looking into all the shop windows - rather than have them trying to stare out from one already shoved into and only possibly see with limited view, any other religious windows and what lies behind them.


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    #244
    Coriolanus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,879 ✭✭✭Coriolanus


    LighterGuy wrote: »
    interesting. that is fair as when they grow up its their choice.
    But you say who are you to force any religion (again very fair) ... but isnt not getting them baptised indirectly forcing your non-religious beliefs on them too?
    By that logic you should get your male children circumcised so as not to force them NOT to be a Jew. :confused:


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    #245
    rainbow kirby
    Registered Users Posts: 26,928 ✭✭✭✭rainbow kirby


    It's highly unlikely that I'll ever have children, but if I do then there is no way they will be baptized. I want nothing whatsoever to do with the Catholic church, and I wouldn't inflict their sexist, homophobic teaching on any child of mine.


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    #246
    robinph
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,096 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    Kids are not born into the default position of believing in a god, so telling them that there isn't one isn't changing anything or forcing anything on them. You are leaving them in a position where they can pick and chose another position later in life though.

    The only thing they believe in is that crying gets them food and their nappy changed.


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    #247
    Armadillo
    Registered Users Posts: 601 ✭✭✭Armadillo


    Quote David Beckham
    "I definitely want Brooklyn to be christened but I don't know into what religion yet."


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    #248
    Red Alert
    Hosted Moderators Posts: 7,486 ✭✭✭Red Alert


    Well I'm Catholic, so yes.


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    #249
    old hippy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,441 ✭✭✭old hippy


    Not a chance.

    If the kid grew up and wanted to chose a religion, I'd make sure he or she knew all the pros and cons & then go for it.


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    #250
    m@cc@
    Registered Users Posts: 4,526 ✭✭✭m@cc@


    Great. Another thread where I can show everyone in AH just how much of an athiest I am and display my contempt for all things to do with Catholicism.


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    #251
    old hippy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,441 ✭✭✭old hippy


    m@cc@ wrote: »
    Great. Another thread where I can show everyone in AH just how much of an athiest I am and display my contempt for all things to do with Catholicism.

    There's just not enough of these kinda threads.

    Next thread:

    Queen's visit to halt baptisms in Dublin


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    #252
    Pace2008
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,587 ✭✭✭Pace2008


    m@cc@ wrote: »
    Great. Another thread where I can show everyone in AH just how much of an athiest I am and display my contempt for all things to do with Catholicism.
    And they will rightfully continue till the country comes to its senses and Catholicism becomes a fringe group along with all the other wacky religions whose teachings are discordant with the lives of the average Irish citizen.


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    #253
    TheBucks
    Closed Accounts Posts: 49 ✭TheBucks


    old hippy wrote: »
    There's just not enough of these kinda threads.

    Next thread:

    Queen's visit to halt baptisms in Dublin

    and Cashel and Cork!


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    #254
    stimpson
    Registered Users Posts: 7,821 ✭✭✭stimpson


    Armadillo wrote: »
    Quote David Beckham
    "I definitely want Brooklyn to be christened but I don't know into what religion yet."

    Please let that be a real quote.


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    #255
    Our man in Havana
    Closed Accounts Posts: 29,476 ✭✭✭✭Our man in Havana


    It is a real quote:
    http://thinkexist.com/quotation/i_definitely_want_brooklyn_to_be_christened-but_i/289574.html


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    #256
    TheBucks
    Closed Accounts Posts: 49 ✭TheBucks


    stimpson wrote: »
    Please let that be a real quote.

    He probably gives them all a different religion to be fair.


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    #257
    m@cc@
    Registered Users Posts: 4,526 ✭✭✭m@cc@


    Pace2008 wrote: »
    And they will rightfully continue till the country comes to its senses and Catholicism becomes a fringe group along with all the other wacky religions whose teachings are discordant with the lives of the average Irish citizen.

    You think AH has that power?

    If Catholicism is irrelvant, then it will die on it's own. For the rest of the people who don't feel as powerfully about the subject as to have the kahunas to post anonymously on an AH thread, the whole thing is just tedious.


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    #258
    Pace2008
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,587 ✭✭✭Pace2008


    m@cc@ wrote: »
    You think AH has that power?
    Hardly. I know there are a fair few nominal Catholics on this forum who would be be better off abandoning the Church, though.
    If Catholicism is irrelvant, then it will die on it's own. For the rest of the people who don't feel as powerfully about the subject as to have the kahunas to post anonymously on an AH thread, the whole thing is just tedious.
    People need a prod in the right direction and I'm sure you know it. If they didn't we wouldn't have so many pro-abortion, pro-gay rights, contraception-using Catholics who believe women should be allowed become priests.

    I would have called myself Catholic three or four years ago, but it was in part through reading threads like this that I realised that Catholicism had nothing to do with my life and to continue to align myself with the organisation was intellectual dishonesty.

    Implying anyone who criticises religion is a coward and a keyboard warrior is even more tired than Catholicism threads, by the way.


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    #259
    m@cc@
    Registered Users Posts: 4,526 ✭✭✭m@cc@


    Pace2008 wrote: »
    Implying anyone who criticises religion is a coward and a keyboard warrior is even more tired than Catholicism threads, by the way.

    I would beg to differ.


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    #260
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    Pace2008 wrote: »
    Implying anyone who criticises religion is a coward and a keyboard warrior is even more tired than Catholicism threads, by the way.

    Most people who post don't do enough care in distinguishing between Catholicism and religion. Both are different. Roman Catholicism is a particular denomination of Christianity, religion is a general term to describe religions (plural). For too many people in discussing this Roman Catholicism <==> religion or Roman Catholicism <==> Christianity. This creates problems in having an accurate discussion about the subject.


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    #261
    Pace2008
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,587 ✭✭✭Pace2008


    philologos wrote: »
    Most people who post don't do enough care in distinguishing between Catholicism and religion. Both are different. Roman Catholicism is a particular denomination of Christianity, religion is a general term to describe religions (plural). For too many people in discussing this Roman Catholicism <==> religion or Roman Catholicism <==> Christianity. This creates problems in having an accurate discussion about the subject.
    That comes across as a bit patronising, though I'm sure it's not your intention.

    I don't really have a problem with religion as a concept. I do have a problem with the specific teachings of the Catholic Chaurch, as do a lot of, er, Catholics.
    m@cc@ wrote: »
    I would beg to differ.
    Since it comes up in every thread about religion they have to be about equal.


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    #262
    partyatmygaff
    Registered Users Posts: 10,992 ✭✭✭✭partyatmygaff


    philologos wrote: »
    Most people who post don't do enough care in distinguishing between Catholicism and religion. Both are different. Roman Catholicism is a particular denomination of Christianity, religion is a general term to describe religions (plural). For too many people in discussing this Roman Catholicism <==> religion or Roman Catholicism <==> Christianity. This creates problems in having an accurate discussion about the subject.
    If I could thank this a thousand times, I would.


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    #263
    Zamboni
    Registered Users Posts: 4,305 ✭✭✭Zamboni


    philologos wrote: »
    Most people who post don't do enough care in distinguishing between Catholicism and religion. Both are different. Roman Catholicism is a particular denomination of Christianity, religion is a general term to describe religions (plural). For too many people in discussing this Roman Catholicism <==> religion or Roman Catholicism <==> Christianity. This creates problems in having an accurate discussion about the subject.

    All variations on a theme.
    Unnecessary misguided fictional attempts at explaining the world we find ourselves in.


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    #264
    m@cc@
    Registered Users Posts: 4,526 ✭✭✭m@cc@


    Pace2008 wrote: »
    Implying anyone who criticises religion is a coward and a keyboard warrior is even more tired than Catholicism threads, by the way.
    m@cc@ wrote: »
    I would beg to differ.
    Pace2008 wrote: »
    Since it comes up in every thread about religion they have to be about equal.


    There you go.


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    #265
    Zamboni
    Registered Users Posts: 4,305 ✭✭✭Zamboni


    No I will not get my child baptised and I am delighted that Minister Quinn has started a process which will hopefully result in more schools being free of religious patronage.


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    #266
    old hippy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,441 ✭✭✭old hippy


    Zamboni wrote: »
    No I will not get my child baptised and I am delighted that Minister Quinn has started a process which will hopefully result in more schools being free of religious patronage.

    He has? Really? That's fantastic news, I'm genuinely pleased to hear this :)


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    #267
    Pace2008
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,587 ✭✭✭Pace2008


    Zamboni wrote: »
    All variations on a theme.
    Unnecessary misguided fictional attempts at explaining the world we find ourselves in.
    But some criticism you could level against Catholicism don't necessarily apply to religion as a whole, eg. you could claim Catholicism is homophobic, but claiming religion is homophobic doesn't really make sense (even if many are).


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    #268
    partyatmygaff
    Registered Users Posts: 10,992 ✭✭✭✭partyatmygaff


    Zamboni wrote: »
    All variations on a theme.
    Except it's not.


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    #269
    Zamboni
    Registered Users Posts: 4,305 ✭✭✭Zamboni


    old hippy wrote: »
    He has? Really? That's fantastic news, I'm genuinely pleased to hear this :)

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0328/education.html


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    #270
    Pace2008
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,587 ✭✭✭Pace2008


    partyatmygaff wrote: »
    Except it's not.
    You've either miscontrued his post or you're quoting him completely out of context.

    Do religions generally not make some attempt (misguideed or not) towards explaining the world around us?


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    #271
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    Pace2008 wrote: »
    That comes across as a bit patronising, though I'm sure it's not your intention.

    It shouldn't come across as patronising. It is the most common error I've seen in judgement in respect to "religion" (which is a huge subject) on boards.ie. It's a problem in general in Irish society mostly with people who haven't been raised in minority backgrounds.
    Pace2008 wrote: »
    I don't really have a problem with religion as a concept. I do have a problem with the specific teachings of the Catholic Chaurch, as do a lot of, er, Catholics.

    I'm just saying it makes it a lot easier if we can demarcate who or what we are in disagreement with more precisely. Isn't that fair or?
    Pace2008 wrote: »
    Since it comes up in every thread about religion they have to be about equal.

    It unduly restricts discussion on such as huge subject. Actually, it restricts discussion on Christianity as a single religion also.


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