Armed British Police Being Deployed in Dublin

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Richard wrote: »

I'd imgine they'd have no powers. I can't see how they could have, legally.

I believe (but amn't certain) that the laws were amended two-three years back so the Minister of Justice can grant relevant powers to Police from other EU states if/when they are operating in Ireland.

later12

pragmatic1 wrote: »

Huge slap in the face to the men, women and children who die because of what she represents.

The Anglican church? Paris fetes? Fish and chips? Double decker buses? Stonehenge? Glastonbury? Darts? What?

I would ride myself cos im a sexy man

dvpower wrote: »

Yes. Mayhem - the cure for all of our ills.

The country is up **** creek without a paddle anyway.

Hopefully abroad they might for once see us a nation with some backbone that wont be walked over.

I doubt it very much though.

KeithAFC

I would ride myself cos im a sexy man wrote: »

Armed British police

UDA members being welcomed with open arms


Well if anything happens, Ms Mcaleese and her friends have on their shoulders.

I would love to protest, but our right to peaceful protest is already on the to do list on things we cannot do.

Sure we can protest , but if we get mace or a baton in the face, its deserved. What a kip this country is.

I really hope there is massive trouble and mayhem.

Why would you allow that? We allow ex IRA terrorists in our government up here, we allow your president into our country, your new taoiseach. A lot of murder has been done to the PUL people and still they are allowed in. Why not the Queen?

hinault

Jim236 wrote: »

According to breakingnews.ie, Gardaí have foiled an attempt by dissident Republicans to buy rocket launchers and rocket propelled grenades, and as a result have stepped up security. However, this includes armed Metropolitan Police Royalty Protection Officers being deployed on the streets of Dublin. Is this acceptable and will this not lead to provocation at what should be peaceful protests during the week?

I would think that the her security detail would be armed - but the title of this thread is misleading.
The thread title suggests that we'll have British Bobbies strolling through our streets with guns.
Nothing could be further from the truth.

In 1998, when the Tour De France was staged here the France sent 300 National Gendarmerie officers to provide security along the TDF route.
The National Gendarmerie are an armed police force and they were required to surrender all firearms before entering this State.

The thread title is misleading.
It's only a security detail that goes to every country with her and is an accepted norm.
They'll lunge to protect and cover herself and himself if someone with a weapon gets near.
I'd be very surprised if the guards arent at their side to do the physical capture/chase or any gunwork if necessary.
Thats in the unlikely event a violent protester gets through the cordon.
The views of the Sinn Fein family of Republicans are to be respected but they are far from majority held views.
The rest of us have views too and majorities carry the weight.


Obviously the reason for the extra security is two fold,the loons that are the disidents and to a lesser extent al queda.
There will be world wide huge news coverage of this visit which will show case Ireland,it's beauty and visitability.
Thats undeniably priceless advertising for bord fáilte.
The same applies to Obama's visit.

I hope both get a decent irish welcome and enjoy their time here and the protesters for whatever reason get on with it peacefully.
I'm sure they will e vocal but so will the welcomers and I'd imagine there will be an awfull lot more of the latter.

I've no qualms at all with the full rigours of the law being used against any violent protests.

later12

I wonder if Pat Rabbitte - now finding himself in Government - is still concerned

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/bush-armed-agents-will-not-have-immunity-says-ahern-181576.html

A political row erupted earlier when Justice Minister Michael McDowell confirmed that the Bush security personnel would be allowed to open fire if they felt there was a risk to life.
US agents guarding their president have always been armed and the bodyguards carried firearms during the visits of presidents Clinton, Reagan, Nixon and Kennedy.
But Mr McDowell's comments sparked off heated reaction from the Labour party leader Pat Rabbitte who said he could see no basis for authorising anyone to use lethal force during the visit.

talkinyite

I've a bad feeling about this

RandolphEsq

caseyann wrote: »

Oh want to start counting deaths now?
Laws that restricted the rights of the Irish
In the 17th and 18th centuries, Irish Catholics had been prohibited by the penal laws from owning land, from leasing land; from voting, from holding political office; from living in a corporate town or within 5 mi (8.0 km) of a corporate town, from obtaining education, from entering a profession, and from doing many other things that are necessary in order to succeed and prosper in life. The laws had largely been reformed by 1793, and in 1829, Irish Catholics could again sit in parliament following the Act of Emancipation.[13]
1 million and then some under British rule and after.
Stop defending them :mad:

Fascinating reading I must say, as political history generally is. However, I do feel it is very difficult to read about an oppressed people of centuries ago and then go and fight their fight as if it still exists today. Maybe I am lacking empathy or a sense of identity but as far as I'm concerned the sooner the E.U. gets broken down into federal states the better so we can condemn nationalism (in all its forms) to the proverbial scrap-heap.

pragmatic1 wrote: »

Huge slap in the face to the men, women and children who die because of what she represents.

I assume you forgot to put a 'd' at the end of 'die'. Can't think of many men, women or children dying these days because of what Her Majesty represents.

later12

RandolphEsq wrote: »

as far as I'm concerned the sooner the E.U. gets broken down into federal states the better so we can condemn nationalism (in all its forms) to the proverbial scrap-heap.

I think in that case we'll just become a local, internal faction, still obsessing over being 'unique' (as if that in itself were unique), our peripheral identity and waving our local tribal flags ad nauseum. In other words, if Europe became the state, we would simply become its Cork people, or what have you, fervently writing songs to celebrate our superiority.

later12

Einhard wrote: »

Symbolism can be quite important. I think that the notion that the head of state of a nation cannot visit another, neighbouring country with whom, not only is she at peace, but actually in alliance, is an appalling, and sends out entirely the wrong message.

To whom! Who is the rather witless creature who needs to be shown a British Queen laying a wreath at the gardens of remembrance to be convinced that official British - Irish relations are, overwhelmingly perfectly fine? Would that individual not be better off (and would we all not be financially better off) if he just picked up a newspaper or switched on the news?

Perhaps later today, if I am feeling in the humour, I will draw up a list of projects upon which the state could embark which would cost 30 million euro, and perhaps you might tell me which ones are worthy to be turned down for the symbolism of this visit. And if someone gets hurt or injured during the royal visit perhaps you, or McAleese, or Cowen (who helped start this thing) can tell us whose injury, should it arise, is worth it for the glory and the symbolism of it all.

Hi guys,

Sorry to ask a question that;s probably been answered a thousand times, but 18 pages is a bit too much to read (though i got to Pg. 3).

Will their be uniformed Police/PSNI in Dublin? Would like to get a photograph of a Garda and Police officer, both in uniform, beside each other. A difficult shot to get, so this could be an opportunity to finally get it.

Cheers

GrahamThomas

Deleted User wrote: »

Hi guys,

Sorry to ask a question that;s probably been answered a thousand times, but 18 pages is a bit too much to read (though i got to Pg. 3).

Will their be uniformed Police/PSNI in Dublin? Would like to get a photograph of a Garda and Police officer, both in uniform, beside each other. A difficult shot to get, so this could be an opportunity to finally get it.

Cheers

No, the only British police will be Royal Protection officers from the Met, and they will be staying within close proximity of the Queen. (They'll be the chaps in dark suits and shades, muttering into their sleeves)

man.about.town

Dotsey wrote: »

If true this could make the police visible and then a target.
This is a threat to our soverignity by having a foreign police on patrol in our capital city

sovereignty??? do you not read the paper. europe owns us now. we are no longer have sovereignty. and i for one am glad.
#

Begob

later10 wrote: »

Perhaps later today, if I am feeling in the humour, I will draw up a list of projects upon which the state could embark which would cost 30 million euro, and perhaps you might tell me which ones are worthy to be turned down for the symbolism of this visit. And if someone gets hurt or injured during the royal visit perhaps you, or McAleese, or Cowen (who helped start this thing) can tell us whose injury, should it arise, is worth it for the glory and the symbolism of it all.

Bad logic.
When HMQ and Obama are over,the worlds TV and press will be covering their every move in one of the biggest advertisements for our scenery and hospitality you could ever have bar holding an olympics here or something.

The cost of this will be paid back in Triplicate.

later12

Begob wrote: »

Bad logic.
When HMQ and Obama are over,the worlds TV and press will be covering their every move in one of the biggest advertisements for our scenery and hospitality you could ever have bar holding an olympics here or something.

The cost of this will be paid back in Triplicate.

And the protests? And trouble? Everybody seems to have costed the positive (and possibly multiplied it) yet nobody seems to have asked what happens if something goes wrong, which it very well might?

Oh well, symbolism at any cost.

Da_Doc

caseyann wrote: »

A record 10 million are recorded members of some group British are against British monarchy.:rolleyes: Not to mention to the ones who arent members and i recall people wanting a referendum to have them removed.Which ofc was'nt allowed to be held lol
Learn some facts before you say anything.

Not to mention the majority of British in the polls who support United Ireland.

90% of mongoose know that 3/4 cats prefer whiskers but only 57% of all lemmings own house insurance.

DublinWriter

I think there will be a large public backlash when people start to be inconvenienced in a major way due to M50 closures and the virtual house-arrest of those in certain towns being visited, not to mention the state using the Data Protection Act to allow garda to visit and question all householders along planned routes (didn't ye read the census forms lads?!).

I wouldn't describe myself as a republican by any means, but I really do ask myself who is this visit really for?

batman2000

caseyann wrote: »

No not the point,point is she lives off wealth she obtained from murder of Irish and slavery of Irish.
And her monarchy represents all of that.
They should not be allowed if true have armed police who are not Irish deployed on our streets.
Beside her no problem.
Still against her coming here and as a whole against monarchy.

Ah here, to get back on topic, which is been blown out of proportion anyway, Caseyann, you're postings, which are your opinion and you have the right to do so, are out of touch, backward and relics of the past. Get over yourself and cop on to the modern land that we are living in.

The amred officers is a protection detail is just that, similar to any head of state would bring over and as mentioned before.Dotsey & CiaranC began the inflamatory remarks by saying this was

CiaranC wrote: »

If true, this is nothing short of treasonous

Dotsey wrote: »

This is a threat to our soverignity by having a foreign police on patrol in our capital city

These and similar remarks do little for our nation moving on (but not forgetting) from the past. However dredging up the 17th,18th century and such like seems unhelpful in debateing the topic of this thread.

Knight990

Again, my previous point is proven. Some of the mindless folks on this thread are simply blowing this whole thing out of proportion - you'd swear they actually wanted an enemy to fight.

It's very easy to pin things as "treasonous" and as an "attack on our sovereignty". Lads and ladettes, seriously. It's a couple of extra bodyguards that the Queen knows and trusts in case it all goes to hell and back, whether by dissident attack or Islamic extremist attack.

The dissidents aren't the only thing she needs to be protected from. I was about to ask why people can't seem to understand this, but its fairly obvious from this thread.

Most people are too stuck in the past, fighting a war from a bygone era, to ever change their minds. It's sad, really. This is the modern, globally connected world. Most of these people are still living in their proverbial mud huts, holding a tricolour and yelling "traitor" at everyone who doesn't agree with them. Digging up the past is only more proof of how backwards they are.

This is the modern world. State visits happen. This one is costing more in terms of Garda time and public money because the Queen is one of the most influential Heads of State on the planet. Whether you like that or not, it's the truth. She's a target for militants around the planet for a plethora of reasons.

I hope our population grows up one day, but judging by some of the posters here, I shouldn't hold my breath.

gbee

Knight990 wrote: »

Most people are too stuck in the past, I hope our population grows up one day, but judging by some of the posters here, I shouldn't hold my breath.

Well, how long were we ruled by English? How long are free? And finally, how long are we a republic?

Answer: Roughly 800 years, 90 years and 65 years. There is a lot of forgetting to do yet.

Knight990

gbee wrote: »

Well, how long were we ruled by English? How long are free? And finally, how long are we a republic?

Answer: Roughly 800 years, 90 years and 65 years. There is a lot of forgetting to do yet.

Looking to the future is better than constantly looking at the past. As long as we keep basing ourselves in the past, basing ourselves against the English, we will never escape that past. The only way to get on with our growth as a nation is to look foreward, not back all the time.

blahfckingblah

Knight990 wrote: »

Looking to the future is better than constantly looking at the past. As long as we keep basing ourselves in the past, basing ourselves against the English, we will never escape that past. The only way to get on with our growth as a nation is to look foreward, not back all the time.

how will forgetting about irish history help with our growth as a nation? thats just a sweeping statement basically suggesting that somehow if we forget all of our miserable past with the british government that the queen will somehow come over and help us?? i just cant see it happening and its naive to think that any good will come out of this trip

lightspeed

Can somone tell me how this could benifit tourism from our nearest neighbour when the inevitable violence and "brits out" develop? I doubt the prime minister of israel would get a warm welcome in palestine so other than imagination what is fueling this belief that queen is welcome here?

MadsL

gbee wrote: »

Well, how long were we ruled by English? How long are free? And finally, how long are we a republic?

Answer: Roughly 800 years, 90 years and 65 years. There is a lot of forgetting to do yet.

...and a lot of learning to do about history and what 'free' and 'ruled' means. Crack a book sometime.

Oh, and what 'English' means.....

gbee

MadsL wrote: »

. Oh, and what 'English' means.....

I know, it's just a synopses and English is a coverall ~ I know there have been a few very detailed threads on our history, I've read it all.

Maybe I should link it here, I'll go look later maybe.

later12

This is incredibly condescending. This visit is not helping us 'grow up', most of us who have no problem with the UK are already very grown up.

I love England, I love Glastonbury, I love London, I love the relationship that our two countries enjoy. However this trip is a waste of money without bringing us any clear benefit, and may, with the inevitable coverage of the inevitable protesting, do us more harm than good.

Is QE2 still getting beheaded outside the GPO, anyone know?

LordSutch

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Rumors that they have had SAS people milling around the place too. I think its a disgrace, there should be no armed British forces of any description in Ireland. I am sure the Gardaí and the defense forces are more than capable.

Ha ha, you make me laugh

You must really be hurting with all those awful British police walking around for a few days!

oppenheimer1

later10 wrote: »

This is incredibly condescending. This visit is not helping us 'grow up', most of us who have no problem with the UK are already very grown up.

I love England, I love Glastonbury, I love London, I love the relationship that our two countries enjoy. However this trip is a waste of money without bringing us any clear benefit, and may, with the inevitable coverage of the inevitable protesting, do us more harm than good.

Is QE2 still getting beheaded outside the GPO, anyone know?

Do you oppose the Obama visit, and indeed every other state visit on the same grounds?

later12

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Do you oppose the Obama visit, and indeed every other state visit on the same grounds?

Because the Obama visit will not bring us any negative coverage, re: significant protests, and because his visit is a short stop and coming at a lower cost, it's a lesser issue. However, yes, I have a thread on the wastefulness of both visits' security costs on the economy forum.

Is it so hard to believe that well adjusted grown ups with no nationalist baggage don't see the logic of this exercise?

kelko1916

LordSutch wrote: »

Ha ha, you make me laugh

You must really be hurting with all those awful British police walking around for a few days!

english people would be happy to have german police operating in london would they ? . your statement reflects the lack of understanding let alone remorse from english people for actions carried out by their country in ireland , hopefully your queen has more dignity .

Knight990

blahfckingblah wrote: »

how will forgetting about irish history help with our growth as a nation? thats just a sweeping statement basically suggesting that somehow if we forget all of our miserable past with the british government that the queen will somehow come over and help us?? i just cant see it happening and its naive to think that any good will come out of this trip

Take care to note that nowhere did I say "forget" Irish history. Read carefully, I said we have to "look" to the future. We should learn of course from our history, but we have to stop defining ourselves by our conflict with the British.

OS119

later10 wrote: »

Because the Obama visit will not bring us any negative coverage, re: significant protests, and because his visit is a short stop and coming at a lower cost, it's a lesser issue. However, yes, I have a thread on the wastefulness of both visits' security costs on the economy forum.

Is it so hard to believe that well adjusted grown ups with no nationalist baggage don't see the logic of this exercise?

its not a zero sum game with no consequences of inaction.

quite simply, if the Irish Government cannot invite the Head of State of its closest neighbour and largest trading partner because it can neither guarentee her security or afford that security, then the Irish state is not a reliable partner with which to do business.

for anyone.

there are risks with the visit, of course there are - television pictures beemed around the world of riots, a bomb, a gunfight etc.. would be catstrophic to Irelands bid for business - but there are also very serious risks with being the only European country the British Head of State cannot visit.

of course, if you want to be seen around the world as Europes answer to Yemen or Somalia...

OS119

kelko1916 wrote: »

english people would be happy to have german police operating in london would they ?

armed German police operate in London whenever senior German officials are in London, and they protect the German Ambassador constantly - the same is true for every other nation state that can afford the thread for its flag.

everyone else lives with it, what makes Ireland so special?

JustinDee

lightspeed wrote: »

Can somone tell me how this could benifit tourism from our nearest neighbour when the inevitable violence and "brits out" develop? I doubt the prime minister of israel would get a warm welcome in palestine so other than imagination what is fueling this belief that queen is welcome here?

It is nothing like the ongoing Israeli/Arab conflict.
Its about time people in this place quit conveniently playing the victim. She'll visit, then go back and life will carry on afterwards. If a visit does this country good in the eyes of its neighbours and trade partners then it will have been worth it.
If members of the Irish public kick up and make a show of us then they've only got themselves to blame.
I'd be more concerned with what happens both sides of the Rep.Ireland v Northern Ireland soccer game next week.

kelko1916

OS119 wrote: »

armed German police operate in London whenever senior German officials are in London, and they protect the German Ambassador constantly - the same is true for every other nation state that can afford the thread for its flag.

everyone else lives with it, what makes Ireland so special?

well the fact that english police/army have been killing , evicting , torturing irish people for several centuries up until recent time might make it a special situation . england of course has never been invaded and occupied so has little understanding of how people might feel about the return of former oppressors

OS119

kelko1916 wrote: »

well the fact that english police/army have been killing , evicting , torturing irish people for several centuries up until recent time might make it a special situation . england of course has never been invaded and occupied so has little understanding of how people might feel about the return of former oppressors

a) learn the difference between 'English' and 'British', it will help you.

b) 70 years ago the German Air Force burnt down half of London and killed 25,000 of its citizens. 70 years ago the German Army invaded the Soviet union and caused a war that killed about 10 million of its citizens. 200 years ago the Royal Navy burnt Washington DC to the ground, around the same time the Dutch Navy sailed up the Thames and destroyed the Royal Navy's dockyard at Chatham. all of these states have long since resumed normal relations - certainly armed German policemen will have walked London's streets within 10 years of the Blitz, often passed buildings that were still bombsites caused by the Luftwaffe.

there is, unless you wish to spend your life living in a cave and yelling at your long since disinterested enemies, little you can do except dry your eyes, and get on with life.

lightspeed

OS119 wrote: »

a) learn the difference between 'English' and 'British', it will help you.

b) 70 years ago the German Air Force burnt down half of London and killed 25,000 of its citizens. 70 years ago the German Army invaded the Soviet union and caused a war that killed about 10 million of its citizens. 200 years ago the Royal Navy burnt Washington DC to the ground, around the same time the Dutch Navy sailed up the Thames and destroyed the Royal Navy's dockyard at Chatham. all of these states have long since resumed normal relations - certainly armed German policemen will have walked London's streets within 10 years of the Blitz, often passed buildings that were still bombsites caused by the Luftwaffe.

there is, unless you wish to spend your life living in a cave and yelling at your long since disinterested enemies, little you can do except dry your eyes, and get on with life.

Why does everybody ignore the fundamental fact that the difference is ocupation of a section of our country by a foreign empire. Germany to my knowledge does not occupy anywhere outside of germany and Britain does not occupy washington dc or anywhere in the USA. The difference with this head of state coming and the monarch of monaco and Us president Obama is that Monaco and the USA dont occupy any of our island country. So can people stop saying whats the big deal we have had other monarchs with their own armed protection before because we all know the difference is occupation. The good friday agreement is a piece of paper they signed on a friday and nothing more.

JustinDee

lightspeed wrote: »

The good friday agreement is a piece of paper they signed on a friday and nothing more.

The 'piece of paper' you refer to is a lot more that that, in fact. Does the word 'referendum' ring a bell?

PeakOutput

lightspeed wrote: »

Why does everybody ignore the fundamental fact that the difference is ocupation of a section of our country by a foreign empire. Germany to my knowledge does not occupy anywhere outside of germany and Britain does not occupy washington dc or anywhere in the USA. The difference with this head of state coming and the monarch of monaco and Us president Obama is that Monaco and the USA dont occupy any of our island country. So can people stop saying whats the big deal we have had other monarchs with their own armed protection before because we all know the difference is occupation. The good friday agreement is a piece of paper they signed on a friday and nothing more.

the majority of the north want to be part of the british empire what right do we have to tell them otherwise?

COYW

Firstly, the presence of British security is to be expected for the state visit. Obama will bring his own security also. I live in the city centre myself and cannot get over the amount of police out and about at the moment. I walked from Lower Mount street to Shelbourne road this morning and came across 4 different unmarked cars each full with police.

Should anything negative happen during either visit, aside from moronic protests from SF and the likes, it will be the death of the country on the international stage. The police cannot afford to get this wrong.

phantom_lord

pragmatic1 wrote: »

Huge slap in the face to the men, women and children who die because of what she represents.

What utter nonsense.

gbee

phantom_lord wrote: »

What utter nonsense.

It's an opinion, one held by more than this one poster and I don't think it is nonsense. It only em-flames things more to criticise someone's opinion in this manner.

I don't hold with the opinion myself, but I do lean in that direction and can empathise with those feelings.

Begob

I see theres an element of the oh theres violent thugs out there who want to behave like children so lets cancel?

If I and a group with me decide to riot outside your house because we object to you shopping,will you starve?

You'll call the guards and I and my group will be locked up and rightly so.

Time these amadáns who think they know better than the 9 out of 10 that disagree with their stupidity move on.

lightspeed

Im 24 years old and so its a piece of paper to me cause i never got to vote to decide if a large portion of an independat island country should belong to a foreign empire with a different foreign currency and war mongering policies. If there was another referendum and the vote was the same maybe i could just accept it but my children and my grandchildrens childrens might not and they would probaly want another referendum and so it would never be good enough no matter what day you sign this piece of paper. There will always be conflict in an occupied area. History has proven this and yet human beings are still ignorant to imagine we can have peace based on wishfull thinking and outright imagination. If you choose to live on a battelfield i dont see how you have the right to cry when blood is spilled when it is an inevitable side effect of occupation.

later12

lightspeed wrote: »

If you choose to live on a battelfield i dont see how you have the right to cry when blood is spilled when it is an inevitable side effect of occupation.

But the people in the Republic and in Northern Ireland have chosen, overwhelmingly, not to live on a battlefield. That was the democratic choice they made, and which ought to be respected. I can't just decide that because i was unavailable to vote in General Election 11, the electoral process should be re-run. I would have voted differently to the population, but they have spoken, and I'll await the next election.

I suggest, during the next election, you vote for the anti GF candidates and engage in peaceful change, if change is what you desire.

JustinDee

lightspeed wrote: »

Im 24 years old...etc

It doesn't matter. Democratic process was undertaken and the majority of the people spoke. To usurp that against their wishes is fascistic, despite the delusional rhetoric of bar-stool republicans out there wafting on about "empires" and "occupations".

Pineapple stu

kelko1916 wrote: »

well the fact that english police/army have been killing , evicting , torturing irish people for several centuries up until recent time might make it a special situation . england of course has never been invaded and occupied so has little understanding of how people might feel about the return of former oppressors

Come back when you have read up on the history of Britain. You will be complaining about the Vikings next and the rape and pilage of the country . Dont believe what they tell you, read up on the History of this Ireland and come back with your own opinion.

Batsy

kelko1916 wrote: »

england of course has never been invaded and occupied

Has it not? Are you really sure about that?

Pineapple stu

What these fools havent realised is that if Ireland was in serious need of help because of a natural disaster, targeted by terrorists other than our own , invaded by another country or another famine, the UK will be the first to help out plus they was the first to give us money during the banking fiasco.