Rob Frost Question

soup1

Is it just me or is "Birches" laced with sexual innuendo?
"And they seem not to break; though once they are bowed"
"You may see their trunks arching in the woods"
"Like girls on hands and knees that throw their hair"
"and could play alone."
"By riding them down over and over again
Until he took the stiffness out of them,"
"And not one but hung limp, not one was left
For him to conquer."

Or perhaps im just being crude?
Perhaps its to mimick the innocence he lost????

GoldFour4

You need help !

J_E

Possibly. I always thought there was that theme of losing innocence in his poetry, like in Spring Pools. It's all up to interpretation.

SDTimeout

If you can prove it, and give valid reasoning. I don't see why you shouldn't be allowed put that down.

spurious

It's certainly very sensual.
I could see an argument for saying it's sexual imagery. I don't see why you would lose any marks in the exam for saying so either, if the question allowed for it.

Whiskey757

The poem is about masturbation. Fact. By no means a speculation.

njd2010

Yeah, most stuff online says the poem is about a boy learning to... "choke the chicken". When our teacher did that poem with us he mentioned that we were to never EVER put anything about that in any of our answers, and left it at that. It's the one of the dumbest poems on the syllabus anyway, so most people just forget about it.

soup1

njd2010 wrote: »

Yeah, most stuff online says the poem is about a boy learning to... "choke the chicken". When our teacher did that poem with us he mentioned that we were to never EVER put anything about that in any of our answers, and left it at that. It's the one of the dumbest poems on the syllabus anyway, so most people just forget about it.

one of the dumbest poems on the syllabus? wow :rolleyes: maybe if you look beyond the surface imagery, you will realise there is a lot more to "birches" than most people think. Its defiantly one of Frost's better poems - right up there with after apple picking

njd2010

I've never been that "into" poetry but Birches is one I've always remembered as really not liking.... the images were just weird and unnatural, like the girls drying their hair. Even before I went online and saw how many other people read it as a poem as being about masturbation I still found it... uncomfortable?

Doesn't matter anyway, the only good poem ever (The Jabberwocky) isn't on the syllabus

J_E

njd2010 wrote: »

Doesn't matter anyway, the only good poem ever (The Jabberwocky) isn't on the syllabus

Take it you haven't read any of Dickinsons' stuff then?

njd2010

Of course I have... but all poetry is inferior to the Jabberwocky.

partyatmygaff

I really dislike that poem. It just seems a tad "off" with regard to its imagery.

That said, the rest of his poetry is pretty good. One of my favourites alongside Dickinson.

jumpguy

I like the last 15 or so lines of the poem. "That would be good both going and coming back."

The poem is definitely phrased a bit strangely (shall we say) to the modern reader. I could see an argument for sexual imagery, and it'd definitely be an interesting point to make and it would stand out in his poetry.

You could argue that it's almost testing the innocence of the reader. The reader can no longer see the childhood delights as sexualisation has spoilt it - he/she has lost his/her innocence, which is the essence of the poem (a longing to return to the simplicities of childhood).

ride-the-spiral

Our teacher did say that some interpretations talk of the oedipus complex, although he told us that going that it's a bit much.

randylonghorn

Whiskey757 wrote: »

The poem is about masturbation. Fact. By no means a speculation.

No interpretation of poetry is "fact"; all interpretation is by definition speculative.

njd2010 wrote: »

Yeah, most stuff online says the poem is about a boy learning to... "choke the chicken".

Firstly, there is a tendency, especially among American critics of a certain outlook, to attempt to interpret every poem in terms of sexual meaning, and onanistic interpretations are a particular favourite. It probably says more about the critics than the poets, tbh.

Secondly, to the bored teenage male in an English Lit. class, that tends to be the bit that sticks in his mind, and that he mentions online.

Thirdly, the 'net being what it is, and the sites that teenagers post on being what they are, that's the bit that gets re-posted and re-posted and re-posted.

Don't get me wrong! ... if this is really what the poem says to you, fine ... you are as entitled to your opinion and interpretation as I am or anyone else is!

I am simply advising against being sucked into a particular interpretation of any poem because of a certain number of hits online.

Personally, having just re-read the poem, even with this thread fresh in my mind, I have to say I struggle to see it though ... and I have a mind which sees innuendo everywhere! :pac:

Oh, there are a few phrases which could be interpreted that way if you're looking for them ... but it's a stretch imho.

Frost loves nature and the countryside, and for him it represents simplicity and innocence. Many of his poems focus on this theme; I suspect that when he waxes lyrical about the simple pleasures of childhood he did not foresee what conclusions to-day's youth, accustomed to /b/ and 4chan, might jump to!

I doubt that many of those doing LC to-day have ever swung from the branches of a birch or a willow, or stripped sally rods to make homemade arrows. Times change ... and the commonplace experiences of yesteryear become esoteric and "weird".

soup1

ride-the-spiral wrote: »

Our teacher did say that some interpretations talk of the Oedipus complex, although he told us that going that it's a bit much.

the Oedipus complex is completely irrelevant - how could you even relate that to Frost? I can see where your coming from though -you could make a loose argument that Frost has unconsciously repressed his sexuality but the Oedipus and Electra are a bit different : /

implausible

There certainly can be some sexual innuendo read into this poem - it's about longing for the innocence of youth and the simplicity of a rural pursuit like swinging off a birch tree. Part of that longing could be the desire to have sexual innocence again and to not think sexually about everything, but in lines such as "like girls on hands and knees", his adult self gets the better of his attempt to recreate childhood innocence.

Bear in mind too that the verb 'ride' does NOT have the same meaning elsewhere that it does in Ireland, so reading it as sexual imagery is stretching it!