I want to know what you mean by the "Nutritional value of food"

gubbie

I was just reading over some of the forums here and I found them really interesting. What seems to come up most is the nutritional value of food.

First an introduction: I've rejoined Weight Watchers for the 3rd time now, yes heavier then before, and now on the Pro Points diet. BUT, I don't like it. The advice at the meetings I have just come to hate. I have been to a few classes now and I just don't believe that eating processed low fat anything is as good as the real deal. It just makes you feel you have a gap if that makes sense. Call it bitchy too but I look at my leader and think "She can't be within her goal weight". I am also infuriated at their belief that walking is the only way to go and honestly the only thing that has ever been promoted in any of my previous starts with WW. Yes it's good, yes it's a good start but if I'm paying €10 every single week (with penalties for not going one week) I'd love for them to be able to give advice on local sports clubs/beginners running advice.

The thing is I know myself I want to lose this weight. I want to be one of these people who just knows what to eat. But I'd say that's the reason I'm so much larger, I just don't know. I know you think, how can someone not know this stuff, it's basic. I mean I know the basics, "fruit and veg are very good for you, browns are better then whites" but the little things, I just don't. Many threads here have the "Don't go on a diet, just eat better" but people join these diet plans because they don't know where else to start. That's me anyway. I don't even know how to make a salad!

So I ask you for advice on the following: Where do I start? What should I look up? Are there any group meetings/nutritionalists that can be seen or is that, once again, barking up the wrong tree (I mean, do you think that these nutritionalists are scammers too?!)?

serenacat

I find the easiest ways to lose weight are to;

-increase fibre in your diet this fills you up and stops you eating as much but is also very healthy and beneficial for your heart health and digestion
by switching to brown rice, pasta, wholemeal breads (yeast free), porridge, adding flax seeds to yogurts and cereals and of course getting a lot of veggies in your diet
-cutting down on sugar is a fast way to lose weight I've found
-chose fish over meat where possible this is full of good fats and minerals and lower in saturated fat than meat.
-drink 8 glasses of water a day, this helps you fill up
-Low fat diets are very hard to stick with and those on it often eat more carbs to fill themself up
- any exercise is positive for burning calories, sometimes the best thing to do is housework you are killing two birds with one stone! (you can wear ankle and wrist weights while you do it)
-you could by a pedometer, these are meant to be motivating, also remember to take the stairs this can be a great workout for the legs

gubbie

"I'd like to second the point to the WW people that we're not out to get you, we're honestly trying to help. You can lose weight more easily, sustainably AND cheaper than weight watchers. "
(I just finished reading the WW thread, looking for anyone who was of the same belief as me)

So, to Tremelo, Davei, Frogdog, El Danderoso and anyone else who knows... How?!

Is it the food pyramid?

gubbie

serenacat wrote: »

I find the easiest ways to lose weight are to;

-increase fibre in your diet this fills you up and stops you eating as much but is also very healthy and beneficial for your heart health and digestion
by switching to brown rice, pasta, wholemeal breads (yeast free), porridge, adding flax seeds to yogurts and cereals and of course getting a lot of veggies in your diet
-cutting down on sugar is a fast way to lose weight I've found
-chose fish over meat where possible this is full of good fats and minerals and lower in saturated fat than meat.
-drink 8 glasses of water a day, this helps you fill up
-Low fat diets are very hard to stick with and those on it often eat more carbs to fill themself up
- any exercise is positive for burning calories, sometimes the best thing to do is housework you are killing two birds with one stone! (you can wear ankle and wrist weights while you do it)
-you could by a pedometer, these are meant to be motivating, also remember to take the stairs this can be a great workout for the legs

Fantastic start, thanks

Silly question, when you say low fat, do you mean like low fat milk/cheese over the normal type or maybe that breads have less fat then chocolate? Or both? If it's the latter I'd love for examples of Low fat normal foods. I think that's what I need... (I feel like a fool not knowing this stuff )

I think sugar should be my first one to go. I'm at the point where I don't want to say I'm dieting. I know it sounds crazy but the first thing that happens in that case is I feel starving, a lot. I used to get a bar of chocolate at about 5pm, so I wouldn't fall off my bike on my way home but I know that's not a good choice and it's little alternatives like that that I need to change. In WW the advice was "fruit or a cereal bar" but fruit is only good for me for cravings, not for filling (I hope this changes in time...). I would have initially thought something like nuts was a good thing to have in that situation, and I LOVE nuts, like monkey nuts and almonds... mmm. But on WW they're extremely high for a very small amount. I don't like that! Nuts can't be that bad surely?!

Would you know anywhere to learn about nutritional values? I mean, it sounds crazy and I know there's the back of the pack and everything but I just don't know where to start with the information side, if you know what I mean.

gubbie

I just found this:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055157091

(How'd I miss it?!). I'm going to spend a day reading it and then get back to ye all with more questions.

I am way over posting in this thread...

smiles302

What I like to do is work out the calorie content of usual meals. Then tweak any that are particularly high. It can be surprising how many calories are hidden that you really don't need flavour wise.

Then you need up with a list of healthy meals you really like.

Do you cook much now?

I've a growing list of tweaked recipes if you want mine.

coffee_cake

To be honest I think a good start would be to worry about low sugar instead of low fat (low fat usually means higher sugar) and don't eat anything very processed.
You're right fruit is a bit sugary and not necessarily filling, though it'd be a lot better than a cereal bar- stay away from those.
Nuts are good but high enough in calories so you have to be careful there

chose fish over meat where possible this is full of good fats and minerals and lower in saturated fat than meat.

Not sure what this is about

If you want to start running as a beginner, look up the c25k program, it's very structured and there are a few support threads for people starting off on it around the boards.

menoscemo

serenacat wrote: »

-chose fish over meat where possible this is full of good fats and minerals and lower in saturated fat than meat.

Saturated fat in meat is not a problem. Eat both more Meat and Fish is good advice. But 'Meat' does not refer to Processed frozen Burgers or Breaded chicken Fillets/Nuggets (neither for that matter does fish refer to fish fingers or Breaded fish fillets).

The most important advice is just eat whole fresh foods- meat should be just a cut of meat direct from the animal and fish the same.

Learn to read the ingredients on everything you buy- if something has more than 1 or 2 ingredients (especially chemical names when you don't even know what they are)- then it is processed junk and don't buy it!.

Amtmann

gubbie wrote: »

"I'd like to second the point to the WW people that we're not out to get you, we're honestly trying to help. You can lose weight more easily, sustainably AND cheaper than weight watchers. "
(I just finished reading the WW thread, looking for anyone who was of the same belief as me)

So, to Tremelo, Davei, Frogdog, El Danderoso and anyone else who knows... How?!

Is it the food pyramid?

Honestly - go primal. This is the business. Metamorphosis, El Dangeroso, Transform (who is a personal trainer of some renown) and many others here more knowledgeable than me endorse it. The conventional food pyramid that everyone learns at school is more a product of agricultural economics than it is of nutrition. It ends up making many people incrementally fat. There is no good reason why cereals should form the staple of any human being's diet, and a heap of reasons why they shouldn't. I'm attaching the primal pyramid below.

Next, you need to have a few myths BUSTED so that you can get your head around how you're going to eat delicious food guilt-free for the rest of your life, lose weight effortlessly, and maintain a healthy weight from then on without any issues.

First: Saturated fat is NOT bad for you. When you eat primally, most of your calories will come from fat. It's your friend. You need to learn more about this to counter the BS you'll inevitably hear from clueless friends and family when they hear you're on a high fat diet. So read this from start to finish and relax. Likewise, read this on butter and this on eggs.

The following foods should be avoided most of the time:

• Sugar in almost all its forms
• Grains (i.e. breakfast cereals, including Weetabix, porridge, Special K, All Bran) and breads (all types)
• Pastries
• Rice
• Processed food
• Pasta

Foods that are very important:

• Meat: any of these: beef, chicken, turkey, pork, duck, mutton, etc. Rashers are fine too.
• Fish (all types)
• Veg: carrots, broccolli, cauliflower, brussels sprouts, spinnach, turnip, parsnip, cabbage, etc. Leafy and rooty.
• Eggs are great. Have as many as you like per day, and have them as you see fit (i.e. fried, boiled, scrambled, etc). They are also an excellent breakfast food.
• Fruit: berries are best - strawberries, blackberries, blueberries, raspberries (excellent nutrients and vitamins and delicious). Apples and pears are great too. Always have these in your house. Plums, kiwis, peaches are also fine.
• Cooking oils: use butter (yes, really) or coconut oil when frying foods
• Seeds: these are great. Get them in Tesco - sunflower, pumpkin, sesame. Very high in calories so be aware of your intake. But they are very important in the primal plan. Add to flax for a wholesome, filling breakfast cereal in milk.
• Nuts: Again, very high calories and an excellent source of protein and fats.
• Flax
• Dairy is all fine if you're not lactose intolerant.

Main points:

• Eat lots of plants and animals
• Avoid all processed food
• Avoid sugar in all its forms (e.g. bread, rice, pasta, sweets, pastries) EXCEPT the fruit mentioned above
• Fat is good!
• Butter is good!
• With most meals, there should be a decent amount of veg. For dinner, veg should easily cover 75% of your plate. Drizzle butter over your veg if you like.
• You do not need to eat 3 meals per day
• Eating before bed IS okay
• See the attached Primal Blueprint food pyramid

Treat foods:

• Full fat cream (yum!)
• Dark chocolate

Calories and Weight Loss:
The Primal Blueprint will cause you to maintain your weight if you follow it.
To lose weight, eat the foods it recommends but eat 500 calories less than you need per day to lose 1lb per week (this might not seem like a lot but from May to the end of August you could be looking at 15lbs).

Losing weight is all about sums. You simply have to burn more calories than you consume. Work out your body's calorie requirements here and remember to work this out again after every 4lbs lost and continue to eat at a 500 calorie deficit per day until you reach your goal.

You do NOT need to exercise to burn calories (though it certainly helps and it's a great thing to do - half an hour of daily cardio will speed up your weight loss). Your body constantly burns calories 24/7 to keep itself warm, and to keep your heart beating, your lungs breathing, etc. The amount of calories needed per day to perform these vital functions is called your BMR. The link above will work it out for you. So don't worry if can't exercise (just don't waste your time on sit-ups as these are USELESS for fat loss).

If you don't know the calories in certain foods/portions, work it out on www.fitday.com under the foods section (this is annoying at first but after a few weeks you'll get very good at estimating the amount of cals in certain foods and you won't need to use fitday at all.

If during weight loss you reach a plateau, you can break through it by going into ketosis or fasting once per week for 24hrs (but this should really not be necessary unless you want to become very lean indeed).

Once you eat in the fashion outlined above, you'll become full much quicker and you'll have a diminished appetite. Any cravings you might now have for sugary treats will vanish. Me*, I lost 5 stone this way absolutely effortlessly. I maintain with zero problems (except that often I have to force myself to eat extra food to maintain, as it's so easy to lose weight once you eat primally. I just force myself to eat cream and strawberries or some terrible food like that ). This also means that you don't have to count calories after a while. You won't need to

Also, have a read through this thread.

* And just so people realise, if I can be reformed, anyone can. I drank upwards of 3-4l of coca-cola per day every day for over a decade. Often I would go without water, milk or fruit juice for months at a time. Vegetables and fruits were things I ate perhaps once per month or less. I had breakfast rolls and Goodfellas Pizzas practically every single day for over ten years, chips, chocolate biscuits, cakes and bars. Also, I never exercised.

Amtmann

menoscemo wrote: »

Saturated fat in meat is not a problem. Eat both more Meat and Fish is good advice. But 'Meat' does not refer to Processed frozen Burgers or Breaded chicken Fillets/Nuggets (neither for that matter does fish refer to fish fingers or Breaded fish fillets).

The most important advice is just eat whole fresh foods- meat should be just a cut of meat direct from the animal and fish the same.

Learn to read the ingredients on everything you buy- if something has more than 1 or 2 ingredients (especially chemical names when you don't even know what they are)- then it is processed junk and don't buy it!.

Excellent points. I continue to eat a huge amount of burgers, but they are made by my local butcher from high quality meat and are seasoned with herbs and spices. Grilled, they are delicious and cheap (€1 each; can't go wrong).

smiles302

Just curious that you seem to know a lot about it. Have there been many/any long term trials looking into the diet?

Is it much different to the low carb approach?

I think I would actually struggle not having porridge for breakfast

menoscemo

Tremelo wrote: »

Excellent points. I continue to eat a huge amount of burgers, but they are made by my local butcher from high quality meat and are seasoned with herbs and spices. Grilled, they are delicious and cheap (€1 each; can't go wrong).

I Agree, I also eat burgers, even meatballs . Once they are in a clear pack in a fridge in the supermarket or from the butchers they are generally 100% beef (bar some herbs and spices) and are fine as a food. Don't worry about the fat content as the fat in this case comes directly from the meat itself.

Generally 'frozen burgers' (Big Al's, Bird's eye etc) have big coloured packaging, come from God Know's where and have a list of ingredients (mainly preservatives) as long as your arm and are best avoided.

Again the main trick is to get used to reading the ingredients.

Jarren

I just had a quick glance at some frozen burgers you mentioned .


http://www.bigals.ie/Products/Big-Eat-Burger.113.1.1.4.aspx

It states only 100% Irish beef with no preservatives...

Big Al's all the way for me then:pac:

menoscemo

jarecki1976 wrote: »

I just had a quick glance at some frozen burgers you mentioned .


http://www.bigals.ie/Products/Big-Eat-Burger.113.1.1.4.aspx

It states only 100% Irish beef with no preservatives...

Big Al's all the way for me then:pac:

If That's the case then fire ahead :pac: I retract my previous statement on Big Al's frozen burgers :cool:

coffee_cake

The ingredients do show nothing else, that's pretty good

serenacat

gubbie wrote: »

Fantastic start, thanks

Silly question, when you say low fat, do you mean like low fat milk/cheese over the normal type or maybe that breads have less fat then chocolate? Or both? If it's the latter I'd love for examples of Low fat normal foods. I think that's what I need... (I feel like a fool not knowing this stuff )

I think sugar should be my first one to go. I'm at the point where I don't want to say I'm dieting. I know it sounds crazy but the first thing that happens in that case is I feel starving, a lot. I used to get a bar of chocolate at about 5pm, so I wouldn't fall off my bike on my way home but I know that's not a good choice and it's little alternatives like that that I need to change. In WW the advice was "fruit or a cereal bar" but fruit is only good for me for cravings, not for filling (I hope this changes in time...). I would have initially thought something like nuts was a good thing to have in that situation, and I LOVE nuts, like monkey nuts and almonds... mmm. But on WW they're extremely high for a very small amount. I don't like that! Nuts can't be that bad surely?!

Would you know anywhere to learn about nutritional values? I mean, it sounds crazy and I know there's the back of the pack and everything but I just don't know where to start with the information side, if you know what I mean.

Low fat diets in general are hard to stick instead op for a low saturated fat diet, munch on nuts if you get hungry these really full you up.
Meat is a source of zinc, b12, iron, amino acids so great and but also nitrates, sat fat and salt so 3-4 times a week should be plenty to get the benefits. Personally I'd only eat organic as i believe its healthier though it has not been proved (yet!).
Ps getting interested in cooking can help you choose healthier options i made a delicious veggie lasagne from scratch! full of veg and yum!

Frogdog

gubbie wrote: »

"I'd like to second the point to the WW people that we're not out to get you, we're honestly trying to help. You can lose weight more easily, sustainably AND cheaper than weight watchers. "
(I just finished reading the WW thread, looking for anyone who was of the same belief as me)

So, to Tremelo, Davei, Frogdog, El Danderoso and anyone else who knows... How?!

Is it the food pyramid?

Only saw my name being mentioned now, thanks! I don't think I deserve to be mentioned with those though.

Well for a start, turn the food pyramid upside down. That would be a step in the right direction. As for everything else, I think it's been mentioned already. I started off learning from scratch just from reading every thread on here. You soon begin to figure out who the knowledgable posters are.

TommyKnocker

I would just like to add something to the excellent post from Tremelo on the first page regarding "Primal" eating.

It mentioned frying with butter or coconut oil. Butter has a low smoke point, that means that it burns at high temperatures. so butter is fine for low heat frying, sweatind vegetabels etc, but it is not suitable for frying at high temperatures. For this use coconut oil as it remains stable at hight temperatures.

Ouchette

Really, if it’s absolute basics we're talking here, I think you can’t go too far wrong by:

-eating lots of vegetables (and potatoes 3 ways doesn’t count!)
- avoiding things with ingredients you wouldn’t buy to cook with yourself
-cooking varied meals from scratch (freezers and Tupperware are your friends)
- stopping eating when you’re full
-not eating if you’re not hungry

Variety is important because that way you won’t be missing out on anything.

So, for breakfast porridge or eggs not Special K.

Lunch is salad with some sort of protein source, homemade soup, leftovers you brought in from home, not packaged shop-bought sandwiches, cup-a-soups or slimming shakes

Dinner is meat/fish and lots of veg (I feel bad saying that when I’m a vegetarian myself, but personal choices aside, it is the easiest healthy thing for the average Irish person I think) not ready meals, low fat or otherwise.

Snacks are veg sticks, fruit, nuts, not cereal bars or ‘lite’ chocolate bars.

Squeaksoutloud

Whole foods cooked from fresh seem to be the only way. I guess it depends on whether you wanna go primal/low carb/paleo or try the high unprocessed carb/low fat route which I currently doing with success.

I note that Whole Health Source now favours the high carb/starch type diet to the paleo/high fat diet:

http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2011/05/clarifications-about-carbohydrate-and.html

which I find interesting considering that some people in here were referring to his website to learn about saturated fats.

El_Dangeroso

Squeaksoutloud wrote: »

Whole foods cooked from fresh seem to be the only way. I guess it depends on whether you wanna go primal/low carb/paleo or try the high unprocessed carb/low fat route which I currently doing with success.

I note that Whole Health Source now favours the high carb/starch type diet to the paleo/high fat diet:

http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2011/05/clarifications-about-carbohydrate-and.html

which I find interesting considering that some people in here were referring to his website to learn about saturated fats.

Not really, more like the high carb route is the 'null hypothesis' for a healthy person. Stephan fully acknowledges a high-fat approach is appropriate if the diet is nutritious. He especially considers low carbohydrate approaches appropriate for people with blood sugar issues and judging from the amount of insulin resistance bellies you see around the place these days, that's a lot of people who'd be better off reducing their carbs.

Before anyone considers that post a ringing endorsement of low fat diets, Stephan only considers fermented grains, tubers and fruit acceptable sources of carbohydrate. So the industrially produced bread is still off the table so to speak.