Article: Car seizures soar as drivers fail to pay for tax, insurance or NCT

Rabidlamb

panda100 wrote: »

My car was seized yesterday on the way to work. It was three months out of date,but I have just started a new job, and had planned to pay the tax at the end of the month when I get paid.

Something similar happened to me about 5 years ago.
The tax was about 3 months out so the guard told me he was seizing it.
I asked to see ID before I handed it over & he suddenly reached in to grab the keys out of the ignition.
I caught his hand in the window & told him I was reporting him for impersonating a guard & the attempted theft of car.
He backed down & gave me the 10 days to produce which I did.

There's a catch 22 today when people need a car to look for work but yet can't afford to run one.

E39MSport

Rabidlamb wrote: »

There's a catch 22 today when people need a car to look for work but yet can't afford to run one.

I think there's an element of people not facing reality and biting the bullet.

How many of the people illegally running their pre slump car could in actuality sell it to buy and tax a 10 yo corolla etc? A good few I reckon.

I know several people struggling to run cars that are more status symbol than A->B machines.

langdang

E39MSport wrote: »

I think there's an element of people not facing reality and biting the bullet.

How many of the people illegally running their pre slump car could in actuality sell it to buy and tax a 10 yo corolla etc? A good few I reckon.

I know several people struggling to run cars that are more status symbol than A->B machines.

Doesn't apply to all cases but yeah, I can see this happening. Same as all the people who didn't VRT cars "because they couldn't afford it" even if they could have bought and taxed a 10yo Corolla with the VRT payment alone....

panda100

seamus wrote: »

I'm having difficulty figuring out how it's cheaper to hire a car for 4 (?) days and pay a €265 impound fee than to stump up €125 today. Not having a go at you, but surely you could have used a credit card or overdraft or even borrowed from someone for the €125? A last-minute hire for 4 days must have cost you the guts of €100.

I hired out a car for the day yesterday for €25, cos I have only about €100 euro left in my account! Car rental is only about €100 for the rest of the week, which is a big differnce to the €400 Im gonna have to stump up to get my car back.
My sister thankfully gave me her credit card details today and so I went down to the tax office just before closing but they don't accept credit card details,only the card itself :mad: My tax was 4 months out of date so I couldn't renew it on line!So now I have to wait for tommorow for my sister to transfer the money into my account, which means another €35, bringing to a total €406 for tax and release fee!

I am lucky that I have people to help bail me out. I feel sorry for those who aren't as lucky as me. I don't think I would have been quite as annoyed If the gardai attitude was a bit better. I understood I was in the wrong, but was a bit upset due to me being in a new job which I needed access to a car. There tone of voice to me, and general attitude was rotten.

peasant

panda100 wrote: »

I am lucky that I have people to help bail me out.

Not wanting to sound overly clever ...but those people could have helped bail you out when the tax was actually up. Would have been a lot cheaper than getting caught

You knowingly took the risk.

jclally

How long does your car have to be out of NCT before they can take it? Mine expired at the end of April, its been off the road getting repaired (receipt to prove it). It's booked in for 29th May, can I lose my car if caught before then?

L1011

Deleted User wrote: »

Crushed and recycled :eek:

Why the hell arent they auctioned. State would get more cash for selling than for recycling in most cases?

Cost of sourcing replacement locks and keys, hassle of re-registering them and risk of the former owner doing a revenge attack. Also a lot of what is being seized is muck anyway - its unlikely someone can afford to maintain a car but can't afford to test or tax it.

blackberryguy

I have no sympathy towards people who don't.
Have a valid NCT.
Insurance.
Tax.
My parents were never rich people and they always struggled to pay the annual car tax and insurance but they always did. They also nct'd the car every two years and kept there car in the best mechanical working order. I know now some people say the NCT is worthless but without it people would be driving around in death traps all together.
My aunt used live in England for year and she was amazed at the amount of people in this country who doesn't have insurance, tans and an NCT.
In my opinion I would change the system totally. People who car tax and NCT was out of date longer than a month would face a harsh fine as well as having there car seized. If road tax or NCT was out of date for longer than 90 days car would be scrapped or auctioned off.
Now when it comes to people not paying there insurance it makes my blood boil. The person's car would be scrapped or auctioned and the would be disqualified from driving for 5 years!

Rabidlamb

peasant wrote: »

Not wanting to sound overly clever ...but those people could have helped bail you out when the tax was actually up. Would have been a lot cheaper than getting caught

You knowingly took the risk.

Ok, we get it, your whiter than white, a model citizen, a rock of society.
Unfortunately some people live in the real world where things get tight sometimes.
Would you deny them the right to work or shop economically by taking away their car cause their tax was out of date.

On the scale of things is it really that big a crime.
Good to see the court of the Motors forum is still in full session.
If unpaid car tax offends you that much never ever go out into the real world..... scary place.

desertcircus

Purely on a point of language: the original quote simply said that many of the impounded cars were not roadworthy, not that all of them were unroadworthy. It's not that unreasonable to assume that a fair proportion of cars that aren't claimed back aren't roadworthy.

peasant

Rabidlamb wrote: »

On the scale of things is it really that big a crime.

raah, raah, rabble, rabble, Fingleton, Fitzpatrick, the banks, the governement ...blah blah....

The rot starts at the bottom, not at the top. A society where everybody cheats on a small scale need not be surprised when it gets run and ruled by the big cheats. That's what happens in the "real world" of yours.

And now we're miles off topic :D:D

Seth Brundle

Rabidlamb wrote: »

Ok, we get it, your whiter than white, a model citizen, a rock of society.

The fact that peasant is albino has nothing to do with the argument!

Rabidlamb wrote: »

Unfortunately some people live in the real world where things get tight sometimes.
Would you deny them the right to work or shop economically by taking away their car cause their tax was out of date.

By over three months. They have had plenty of opportunity to pay their fair share.
Can I avoid paying income tax because things are a bit tight?

Rabidlamb wrote: »

On the scale of things is it really that big a crime.

As opposed to what?
The poster has not been summonsed or anything. Their car was confiscated because it was not road legal. Whats the issue?

Rabidlamb wrote: »

Good to see the court of the Motors forum is still in full session.
If unpaid car tax offends you that much never ever go out into the real world..... scary place.

Nope. No court here. I'm just glad that the gardai did their job.

Anan1

Rabidlamb wrote: »

Unfortunately some people live in the real world where things get tight sometimes.
Would you deny them the right to work or shop economically by taking away their car cause their tax was out of date.

Yes. Welcome to the real world.

Matt Simis

blackberryguy wrote: »

People who car tax and NCT was out of date longer than a month would face a harsh fine as well as having there car seized. If road tax or NCT was out of date for longer than 90 days car would be scrapped or auctioned off.

Run off the deep end much? Lets deport them to a far away land while we are at it, wouldnt what these types ruining the utopia we carved out..
If we are daydreaming then in "my world" motor tax would be distributed fairly, all cars would have the same tax and the tax would be on the car owner, not the car (therefore multiple cars, one tax). The motorist wouldnt be overburdened with the rest of society's bull$hit (motor tax is effectively a USC type levy at this point).
NCTs would still exist though one would be able to get tested within 48hrs. I rang to arrange 2 NCTs today and was told there wont be one available, anywhere in the Leinster (likely the country) till well into June. So I will be driving "illegally" in this regard till the wonderful system you want to see bolstered gets its finger out.. and not a thing I can do about it.

The only thing I would agree on is Insurance, it actually serves a direct purpose unlike the faith based nature of the rest of them. Though in some countries this is easily handled via a universal insurance built into fuel.

I firmly believe when a system is non-invasive, fair and equal you will get a lot less descent and it will work a lot more consistently. Any enforcement is a resource waste, you want minimize this to get the max return via effectiveness.
Right now there are people that cannot afford pieces of paper in the window just cos its written as a law and there are people that may be able to afford it but are so disillusioned they see it as throwing money away (and lets be honest, the vast majority of our money is now paying off bailouts, not building roads and hospitals). Im not saying whats right and wrong, thats for armchair moral compasses, but this the normality of now.

-Chris-

panda100 wrote: »

My car was seized yesterday on the way to work. It was three months out of date,but I have just started a new job, and had planned to pay the tax at the end of the month when I get paid.
My job is visting people in the community with disabilities, and am now carless on my second week of work!It looks so bad. My NCT,Insurance were all in date, and my dad services my car regularly. I was so upset when they took it, and they didn't seem to give a toss.

I am just wondering it says the compound release fee is €125 for first 24 hours and then €35 euro fo each 24 hours after that. Does this mean that for each day kept in there I will be charged an extra €35 on top of the €125??

panda100 wrote: »

I hired out a car for the day yesterday for €25, cos I have only about €100 euro left in my account! Car rental is only about €100 for the rest of the week, which is a big differnce to the €400 Im gonna have to stump up to get my car back.
My sister thankfully gave me her credit card details today and so I went down to the tax office just before closing but they don't accept credit card details,only the card itself :mad: My tax was 4 months out of date so I couldn't renew it on line!So now I have to wait for tommorow for my sister to transfer the money into my account, which means another €35, bringing to a total €406 for tax and release fee!

I am lucky that I have people to help bail me out. I feel sorry for those who aren't as lucky as me. I don't think I would have been quite as annoyed If the gardai attitude was a bit better. I understood I was in the wrong, but was a bit upset due to me being in a new job which I needed access to a car. There tone of voice to me, and general attitude was rotten.

Huh?


Hmmmm... :rolleyes:

Seth Brundle

LOL
Yeah but. No but. Yeah but its not like its my fault.
Just not fair.

blackberryguy

Matt Simis wrote: »

NCTs would still exist though one would be able to get tested within 48hrs. I rang to arrange 2 NCTs today and was told there wont be one available, anywhere in the Leinster (likely the country) till well into June. So I will be driving "illegally" in this regard till the wonderful system you want to see bolstered gets its finger out.. and not a thing I can do about it.

Well My aunt booked her NCT this morning in Laois at 8.30am and she was given a test for 16.30 in the afternoon. All I can say to you is ring the NCT company every morning between 8.00-9.00 and you might get a test that someone else has cancelled. So, book try that every morning and you might get a test. Also just so you know you can book a cars first NCT up to 6 months in advance and every other NCT 3 months in advance for future reference!

unkel

Matt Simis wrote: »

NCTs would still exist though one would be able to get tested within 48hrs. I rang to arrange 2 NCTs today and was told there wont be one available, anywhere in the Leinster (likely the country) till well into June. So I will be driving "illegally" in this regard till the wonderful system you want to see bolstered gets its finger out.. and not a thing I can do about it.

You know better than that, Matt Simis

You know you can test your car 3 months early and it will still have the same valid until date. And you know now is very busy for the NCT as many 10+ year old cars are being put through to get the last possible 2 year test until the system changes to yearly tests per 01/06/2011

No company or institution can cope with that kinda short term, temporary increase in demand. And it's not the first time this has happened - was it last year or the year before that the NCT was overwhelmed with people trying to get appointments as the government announced (from memory) 5 penalty points and €1,500 fines for not having a valid NCT?

BTW I rang up the NCT a week or two ago to make an appointment before the end of May. They had no availability but the lady told me I was going to be put on the cancellation list. Got an SMS a few days later with an appointment. Car failed but I got it sorted and brought the car over (without an appointment) to the NCT the same day (near closing time) and they re-tested it and it passed (until 2013)

Owen

E39MSport wrote: »

How many of the people illegally running their pre slump car could in actuality sell it to buy and tax a 10 yo corolla etc?

Very few I'd say. Most of the cars were taken out on Hire Purchase, and due to falling market values, the car wouldn't be worth anything near settlement figures. Everyone seems to forget that when assuming it's pride keeping people in cars they can barely afford to run.

Matt Simis

unkel wrote: »

You know better than that, Matt Simis

We were talking fantasy land ideal world though...! Though they could build redundancy into the process, in terms of equipment, opening hours and a flexible workforce (temp personal, shifts etc). And a "light touch" NCT for a newish cars first one (to increase turnaround speed). It is possible to cope with surges in demand with some foresight, just seemingly not in Ireland..

unkel

Matt Simis wrote: »

It is possible to cope with surges in demand with some foresight

If were talking fantasy land then soon enough, with strong enforcement, there won't be any cars out on the road without NCT. All say 2+ year old cars will be tested yearly and there will be no surges in demand whatsoever

Except the natural ones based on how many cars are sold / imported in a particular year etc., but you'd literally see that coming years in advance

Rabidlamb

Ah bugger it all, it's just one mans fight to bring relativity to the debate.
If was a fools hope against 27 mods with only black & white views on the matter.

I have been assimilated, you win.
Where do I go to admonish the greatest wrongdoers in society, the car tax cheats.
Should I stand outside my local district court & hurl abuse at everyone leaving in a suit.
Is there a protocol in place for membership of your fine collective.

Blue Punto

no test = not road worthy

please give me a break

After the revelations of a few days ago

test still = not road worthy

the motor industry is a huge revenue earner for the state regardless who is in power.
If they were to look at the bigger picture that people need their cars for work purposes and the lack of decent public transport which is being cut again they could revue the payment structure of tax on vehicles which would prob go along way to help people who are already on the bread line.


But we are relying on people who get payed stupid amounts of money and never have to put their hands in their own pockets for anything motoring because they have a nice merc with a driver and fuel and all maintanance paid for

BY US THE PUBLIC

I dont condone driving with no insurance

E39MSport

PaintDoctor wrote: »

Very few I'd say. Most of the cars were taken out on Hire Purchase, and due to falling market values, the car wouldn't be worth anything near settlement figures. Everyone seems to forget that when assuming it's pride keeping people in cars they can barely afford to run.

meh - good point but not so sure.
08 was the last car buying year for the type of driver/buyer we're considering so that's 3/4 years of payments. That should knock a hefty lump off.

Some of the folks I know of actually took the hit on the h/p (based on what they paid) then used the cash to buy a 'trophy' car.

Still struggling to keep them on the road and therefore driven by pride I reckon. Madness.

Sure for fox sake that attitude has a lot to answer for in general !!

galwaytt

Anan1 wrote: »

"Originally Posted by Rabidlamb Unfortunately some people live in the real world where things get tight sometimes.
Would you deny them the right to work or shop economically by taking away their car cause their tax was out of date."

Yes. Welcome to the real world.

Really?

And, as Prime Time has shown, if, say a convicted rapist, and a proven danger to society, can plead that taking away his PSV licence deprives him of his 'livelihood', and the courts agree, and re-instate it, then, frankly Rabidlamb is right - you have no right to deprive a person of their livelihood over a misdemeanour.

And don't forget to tell that to the person waiting for Panda to turn up for a few hours respite as well.

We really do have our priorites fugged up.