Waterford Airport in Danger of Closing!?

Trotter

Irish Times - Three regional airports may close due to lack of funding


This is awful news for the region. Are successive governments trying to write off the South East as a whole completely?!

We've 3 government TDs and I expect to hear serious noise from them on this one.

Fighting Irish

Trotter wrote: »

Irish Times - Three regional airports may close due to lack of funding


This is awful news for the region. Are successive governments trying to write off the South East as a whole completely?!

We've 3 government TDs and I expect to hear serious noise from them on this one.

It's obviously closing for a reason??

thomasm

Would that have an imapct on search and resuce or do they operate independently.

Trotter

thomasm wrote: »

Would that have an imapct on search and resuce or do they operate independently.

Thats independent. They're in their own section of the airport.

Sully

Fighting Irish wrote: »

It's obviously closing for a reason??

Government cant afford to run all regional airports, and wants them to stand on their own two feet. Basically.

But seeing as only one of our local TDs spoke on the issue of University status, I would be very interested in seeing will they speak out on this one!

Neworder79

It's not closing, but will have to stand on it's own feet. The last Government cut the regional air budget in half. With more cuts next year there isn't any money for regional airports (which are supposed to be private commercial businesses after all) with the IMF micro managing the purse strings.

Despite having no PSO routes WAT is highly reliant on operational subsidy from the exchequer to run the various airfield activities and pay wages. Aer Arann are themselves are losing subsidy with the end of various PSOs. As revenues drop in the current climate, the losses have risen and the department aren't willing to keep topping up the difference each year.

I think WAT has potential but it will have to cut costs and attract more commercial traffic to survive. They need someone like FlyBE to base an aircraft. Other options include charging direct passenger fees, or the local council or chamber investing.

merlante

Saw this earlier. Really don't know what to say. Waterford's level of subvention over the years has been very small compared to the PSO airports. I think Waterford is being lumped in together with those other airports out of convenience. I think if Waterford airport is shut down, it's going to be all down hill from here for Waterford. I think it would be disastrous.

The Irish Times says Waterford has the same level of subvention as Galway (less than Sligo), but I suspect those figures are not including the PSOs that Galway, etc., get, or did get up till recently.

Waterford seems to get around €1.5m per year from the government. This is pretty small in the grand scheme of things. How much money do the 2/3 flights per day bring into the region in terms of tourism and business? Hard to believe it doesn't more than pay for itself given the small investment. Aer Arann have continually expanded their routes out of Waterford so they obviously feel there is a business there. Aer Arann/Stobart have made a significant investment in the flights to Southend.

Obviously, the more passenger numbers increase, the less the subvention needs to be. Waterford was doing well before the boom, coming from a low base, and passenger numbers have been more resilient than Galway in the recession. Waterford airport has shown every indication of continuous development of routes and passenger numbers, recession aside. Plenty of money has been invested, not just by the national government, but by the county councils of the south east, particularly the Waterford councils in building proper roads. Now they want to shut the whole thing down and let it rot. In 10 years, when the airport seems like a good idea again, the terminal building will be reminiscent of the Ard Ri, and the runway taken over by travelers. What a useless, pointless waste of time and money if it's all shut down. For what, a million or so euro per year. You have to spend money to make money.

Most galling is that when the issue of the motorways harming the business case for regional airports is continually brought up, it's obvious that the implication is that publicly subsidised flights within Ireland no longer make sense. I completely agree! Waterford never benefitted from a publicly subsidised internal PSO flight!

The catchment around Waterford Airport has a higher population than most of the other regional airports, including Galway, Knock, etc. *and* there is no alternative airport for over 120km (Cork) or nearly 2hrs. In the case of Galway, there are alternative airports in Shannon and Knock. There is no case for an airport in Sligo because the population is not there, and anyway, there's Knock airport. The argument for Donegal also seems incredible. Why can't something be done with City of Derry airport. And with Kerry, why can't the train service just be improved between Dublin and Tralee/Killarney, considering there is no business case for the airport except to shuttle tourists between Dublin to Kerry ... in the summer!

Waterford airport is absolutely vital for the south east of the country where there is no alternative option within 2hrs. Early morning flights basically require an overnight in Cork or Dublin otherwise.

deisedol

I think we need to get WLR to get on to our newly elected TD's in government to see what they have to say on the matter.
As always the past week or so Waterford only seems to make the national news for all the wrong reasons.

shanemul

If Waterford Airport closes we loose the 24hr SAR as the airport offers fire cover needed for the operation of the helicopter. The airport won't close but they may need to make cuts but they are in a position to support themselves

Bards

how much is FG's job initive costing again?... surley the small sums involved to keep Waterford Airport open and functioning will moe than pay for itslef with the knock-on jobs that currently exist (560 are employed both direct and indirect - http://www.waterfordairport.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=170&Itemid=200)

Just over €1m per year seems a small price to pay

Government Joined up thinking - I think not

tankbarry

I have got a reply from Paudie Coffey and he says that Waterford Airport should not have been put in the Irish Times report. He also says that himself and Mr Deasy will be putting a strong case forward to the minister at the earliest time.

Neworder79

Bards wrote: »

h... surley the small sums involved to keep Waterford Airport open and functioning will moe than pay for itslef with the knock-on jobs that currently exist

Government Joined up thinking - I think not

According to the minister for transport on RTE today it's not just annual operational subsidy. He has to take into account capital spending, security, safety and maintenance projects, and he expects supporting all the regional airports to cost in the region of €300m over next decade.

STIG83

Hope Waterford Airport wont be closed, it would be a big loss to the City.
Have only used it once to fly to Portugal in 2007, it was so handy

looksee

I use Waterford airport for about 3 or 4 round trips per year and its a brilliant service. People say it is more expensive than flying from Dublin, but if you factor in the cost of getting to and from Dublin, parking, meals etc, I don't think it is any more expensive. And even if it is, the convenience is worth paying for.

Most flights I have been on recently have been pretty well full so the demand is apparently there. It would be a great pity to lose it now we have just got used to it!

merlante

looksee wrote: »

I use Waterford airport for about 3 or 4 round trips per year and its a brilliant service. People say it is more expensive than flying from Dublin, but if you factor in the cost of getting to and from Dublin, parking, meals etc, I don't think it is any more expensive. And even if it is, the convenience is worth paying for.

Most flights I have been on recently have been pretty well full so the demand is apparently there. It would be a great pity to lose it now we have just got used to it!

I make similar use out of the airport and find the whole operation excellent. It's definitely cost effective to fly out of Waterford 9 times out of 10, given all the costs associated with flying out of Dublin or Cork. For early flights, you either lose sleep driving or have to spend an overnight in Dublin or Cork.

I think Aer Arann would not be so committed to Waterford if the load factors weren't sufficient. I've found the flights well subscribed myself. The subvention to Waterford is therefore for fixed costs, and the more passengers that fly, the more routes, etc., the less the subvention should be needed. (I think considering recession + ash clouds, the passenger numbers have held up pretty well, and I think they might increase this year.)

I know you can't change history, but for the cost of Terminal 2, which was a considerably over-engineered, and lets face it, vanity, project, Waterford airport could be maintained for 400 years at its current level of subvention. Just to put things in perspective.

scico rocks

Even if the flights are sometimes more expensive than say, Cork or Dublin, the handiness of Waterford makes it much more beneficial. I hate the drive from Dublin or Cork after a flight.

Deise Tom

If the Government close Waterford Airport, would it mean that the helecopter that we all fought to have retained in Waterford last year will be taken away. Would be interested to see what our TD's and Councillors, especially those in power now, and that were so vocal last time round would have to say.

tankbarry

The helicopter Search and Rescue IS seperate. What the Goverment is proposing is to cut funding for the passenger flights and airport repairs the likes of taxi-ways, lights, painting runway markings, security that stuff. I have to ask why isnt the likes of flybe, cityjet, them kind of airlines not being asked to use Waterford airport they both have aircraft that have the size and capability to use the airport. Why are the the people in charge not looking into that....

Deise Tom

tankbarry wrote: »

The helicopter Search and Rescue IS seperate. What the Goverment is proposing is to cut funding for the passenger flights and airport repairs the likes of taxi-ways, lights, painting runway markings, security that stuff. I have to ask why isnt the likes of flybe, cityjet, them kind of airlines not being asked to use Waterford airport they both have aircraft that have the size and capability to use the airport. Why are the the people in charge not looking into that....

Good point re the other low cost airlines, if they flew to other airports, maybe more and more people could use Waterford. I dont fly much myself, but when i have done so, i had to use Cork or Dublin because there was no flights from Waterford.

dayshah

tankbarry wrote: »

I have to ask why isnt the likes of flybe, cityjet, them kind of airlines not being asked to use Waterford airport they both have aircraft that have the size and capability to use the airport. Why are the the people in charge not looking into that....

Can Waterford take those small jets?

ziedth

I may have mentioned it on another thread regarding the airport but I'm amazed they don't push English Premier League games more. Think about it, United/City/Spurs/Chelsea/Arsenal/Liverpool can be reached without even opening up any new routes.

All they would need is a package with an early flight say 8.00am and late flight back after 22.00pm or laater if the airline get it cheaper. roll it all into one handy enough price €89.99 or something and I think you'd surely make a decent few quid out of it.

you would have the whole day for under €200 which as a fan I wold try and do a few times a season.

gscully

ziedth wrote: »

I may have mentioned it on another thread regarding the airport but I'm amazed they don't push English Premier League games more. Think about it, United/City/Spurs/Chelsea/Arsenal/Liverpool can be reached without even opening up any new routes.

All they would need is a package with an early flight say 8.00am and late flight back after 22.00pm or laater if the airline get it cheaper. roll it all into one handy enough price €89.99 or something and I think you'd surely make a decent few quid out of it.

you would have the whole day for under €200 which as a fan I wold try and do a few times a season.

€200? For Spurs maybe, but for Arsenal it'd be closer to €300. You pay for quality

shanemul

tankbarry wrote: »

The helicopter Search and Rescue IS seperate. What the Goverment is proposing is to cut funding for the passenger flights and airport repairs the likes of taxi-ways, lights, painting runway markings, security that stuff. I have to ask why isnt the likes of flybe, cityjet, them kind of airlines not being asked to use Waterford airport they both have aircraft that have the size and capability to use the airport. Why are the the people in charge not looking into that....

It may be a sepeate company but for the SAR service to survive they need taxi-ways, lights, painting runway markings, security, fire and rescue so without them no SAR service. Trust me the aiport is going no where

tankbarry

I may have mentioned it on another thread regarding the airport but I'm amazed they don't push English Premier League games more. Think about it, United/City/Spurs/Chelsea/Arsenal/Liverpool can be reached without even opening up any new routes.

All they would need is a package with an early flight say 8.00am and late flight back after 22.00pm or laater if the airline get it cheaper. roll it all into one handy enough price €89.99 or something and I think you'd surely make a decent few quid out of it.

you would have the whole day for under €200 which as a fan I wold try and do a few times a season.

that would be common sense... I have emailed aer arann about this and it seems that it is not of interest. dont know why if you joined up with a travel agent put a set price on the games including flight , ticket back same day or something similar you would get a full flight..... I required about flying from Waterford to derry for a Waterford United game they wanted really stupid money. It would have been 70euro cheaper to fly from Cork to derry and back. some lads were willing to pay about 140 its only about 70 to fly from cork.......... And an answer to another question to can them JETS land there. they can land there they have done it to portugal, malaga, france, holland...... and people have charted them from the airport too....

Deise Tom

ziedth wrote: »

I may have mentioned it on another thread regarding the airport but I'm amazed they don't push English Premier League games more. Think about it, United/City/Spurs/Chelsea/Arsenal/Liverpool can be reached without even opening up any new routes.

All they would need is a package with an early flight say 8.00am and late flight back after 22.00pm or laater if the airline get it cheaper. roll it all into one handy enough price €89.99 or something and I think you'd surely make a decent few quid out of it.

you would have the whole day for under €200 which as a fan I wold try and do a few times a season.

The premiership trips i am sure if they began would be a hit. I was talking to a fellow living outside Waterford a while back and he told me he travels from his him to Farranfore to go across to games.

Would be good if they did trips to Glasgow as well or to the different areas of Scotland that Celtic are playing. I am sure it would be no problem to get tickets for the games. You see games that Celtic play away from home and the grounds are at times far from full.

tankbarry

It may be a sepeate company but for the SAR service to survive they need taxi-ways, lights, painting runway markings, security, fire and rescue so without them no SAR service. Trust me the aiport is going no where

it will still be done but on a lot smaller scale.

ziedth

gscully wrote: »

€200? For Spurs maybe, but for Arsenal it'd be closer to €300. You pay for quality

Really? i was gussing £60/70ish for a ticket to most games would easily do you. that would leave you £50 to get around for the day. taking exchange rate and a bit extra we'll split the difference and call it €250.

Even at that i'd still save 20 a week and try and go twice a year.

Deise Tom

tankbarry wrote: »

it will still be done but on a lot smaller scale.

What would be done on a smaller scale, the searches. If this was to happen then the present Minister for Transport would prove himself to be a bigger M****t than the last and you could argue that would be hard to achieve.

gscully

ziedth wrote: »

Really? i was gussing £60/70ish for a ticket to most games would easily do you. that would leave you £50 to get around for the day. taking exchange rate and a bit extra we'll split the difference and call it €250.

Even at that i'd still save 20 a week and try and go twice a year.

I'd imagine the airfare would be hiked up for such a trip though.

I *think* the real issue is that none of Aer Arann's planes reside at the airport?

tankbarry

What would be done on a smaller scale, the searches. If this was to happen then the present Minister for Transport would prove himself to be a bigger M****t than the last and you could argue that would be hard to achieve.

The Search & Rescue would not be affected. What I meant by a smaller scale is the repairs , staff , that kinda stuff

shanemul

tankbarry wrote: »

The Search & Rescue would not be affected. What I meant by a smaller scale is the repairs , staff , that kinda stuff

Eh no. The airport is owned and run by a seperate company and the hanger in which the SAR base is run from is leased from the airport. Meaning that if Waterford Airport folded their licence is gone meaning no aircraft can take off or land from there legally. The goverement doesn't subsidise the maintainence of the airport it provides a grant for each passenger going thru the airport from which everything is paid from