Primetime Investigates Dodgy Taxis Ltd

alias no.9

Merch wrote: »

Id say crush the car if its unsafe, assuming the owner agrees as its their property.

Crush it regardless. If the owner tried to corrupt the process of statutory assessment of their car, they forfeit the car to the state and the state turns it into bean cans. Simple clear deterrents sometimes work best.

Ken.

Merch wrote: »

Who? the regulator or the woman driving the van with the kids flying around the back?

The regulator not coming on strikes me as utterly stupid, why not answer questions, why hide?
I'm not a taxi driver nor related to one, but I was really actually against taxis older than 10 years being put off the road (still am, even after seeing that) as a car that is 1 year old could be involved in crash, and be NCT'd as ok although it might have a glaring fault, a ten YO merc or even an almera might be in better nick. If the test was good, it would spot this, either its mechanically sound or not, regardless of age. Taxis just need to be more rigourously checked regarding following up by supervisors double checking as they could be on the road for a lot of hours and preesent more risk as such.

The regulator in the interview put up by nobody3

Schorpio

Merch wrote: »

a car that is 1 year old could be involved in crash, and be NCT'd as ok although it might have a glaring fault, a ten YO merc or even an almera might be in better nick.

A one year old car doesn't have to have an NCT, because it's extremely unlikely that it would develop any fail-worthy faults after just a year. The odds of a ten year old car being in equal or better shape then a one year old one are tiny. I'm not saying it doesn't happen - I'm just saying it's very, very unlikely.

Also, the nine year rule wasn't brought in just because of the condition of taxis, it was also very much to do with safety. A new car today is much safer than it's 10 year old brother. eg, the first gen Avensis (of which loads are taxis) got a 3 star NCT result back in the day. The new Avensis is a 5 star car, and was put through a far rigorous set of tests. I know which I'd rather be in (driver or passenger).

Stinicker

The 9 year rule should definitely be brought in along with with mandatory background checks, similar to those working with Children, I believe all Taxis should be GPS tracked (not for speeding may I add but for general security).

There needs to be a set standard for what models are allowed as taxis and a cap on licences given out, the market is oversupplied and their needs to be an embargo on licensing to allow for a fairer playing field. I think it is very unfair for drivers who have invested alot of money into decent taxi cars to have to compete in the same environment against scam operators with crocks of cars, no licence, insurance or a clue where they are going half the time or even a proper grasp of the language we speak.

As a rule I always avoid those with crappy old cars and never get in with an foreign driver, my reasons: I'm paying so deserve a nice clean Merc or VW over an Carina or old Nissan, secondly I like to minimise the fare and a local driver will get me there quicker as he is more familiar with the route, the majority of foreign drivers are not and are often sat nav dependent. I usually then tip the taxi driver 10% if I feel I have been given a good service and he hasn't been screwing around with me by going the long way round.

Last taxi I took was a Mercedes from Dublin Airport, the driver was in his mid fifties I'd say and knew the place like the back of his hand, we spent the journey in talking about Kerry and Dublin football matches during the 70's and 80's, a grand salt of the earth old dub who made the effort respectably with a shirt and tie and did not annoy or initiate conversation until I got talking to him. My fare was no different than the few chancers up front who could easily fit the bill for last nights show from the looks of them. I left them sitting at the front and choose my taxi on these criteria.

Absurdum

banana republic, nothing will be done, Ireland is corrupt etc.


oh wait...

Major clean up of ‘disturbing’ taxi industry practices underway

IRELAND’S PUBLIC TRANSPORT and Commuter Policy Minister, Alan Kelly, met with the National Transport Authority this morning about the Prime Time Investigates programme on disturbing practices in the taxi industry.
Minister Kelly announced following the meeting that he will be conducting a full-scale review of the industry to ensure better safety for consumers and regulation for drivers.

The minister commented:
A review of all matters relating to the taxi industry is already underway for a number of weeks. The scope of the review is being written currently and will be published within the next three to four weeks. The idea behind the review is to clean up the appalling practices that take place in some areas of the taxi industry.
He added that the drive to clean up these bad practices is coming from taxi-drivers themselves and that the vast majority of drivers are legitimate operators “but their businesses are suffering because they are competing with people not operating within the regulations”.
Last night’s Prime Time Investigates report demonstrates clearly that it is too easy to operate outside the current industry regulations. The taxi industry has not been politically prioritised and both consumers and legitimate drivers have suffered as a result.

The review will look at:
The role of the Gardai in terms of taxi regulation. Currently Gardai do not have full powers to penalise taxi-drivers for lack of adherence to regulations and this will be examined under the review.
The system of monitoring and regulation of licenses. Minister Kelly said this “is not stringent enough and criminals with serious convictions are being allowed to operate legitimately”.
There will also be an update of security features contained within drivers IDs and licences to enhance compliance.
Whether current regulations are good enough if enforced properly or if new legislation is required.
The knowledge standards and geographical knowledge of drivers and whether law changes may be required for retrospective geography changes.
The regulations surrounding vehicle standards and how they are enforced.
The transfer of licences.
Working hours undertaken by taxi drivers. “We could explore different types of licences, such as day or night, or geographical area licences to ensure adherence to the highest standards of safety and customer service.”
Minister Kelly said that the Government “will be prioritising the regulation of the taxi-industry” and that he and Minister Leo Varadkar will ensure that the review of the industry allows consumers have confidence in the taxi system while legitimate drivers can make a decent living by operating within the necessary rules and regulations.

http://www.thejournal.ie/major-clean-up-of-disturbing-taxi-industry-practices-underway-138082-May2011/?utm_source=shortlink

B00MSTICK

Would people be of the opinion that a well cared for car and a smartly dressed driver (as Stinicker described above) would indicate a better chance of the presence of a valid NCT/Tax/Insurance?

Merch

alias no.9 wrote: »

Crush it regardless. If the owner tried to corrupt the process of statutory assessment of their car, they forfeit the car to the state and the state turns it into bean cans. Simple clear deterrents sometimes work best.

lucyfur09 wrote: »

The regulator in the interview put up by nobody3

Sorry, I (edit already)read the whole thread, I thought that was a link to the programme that I watched last night.
She is a bullsh1tter, at at 1.23 shes talking about new standards and upskilling drivers, all buzzwords wheres the substance, what upskilling is she/could she be talking about. Seems to me as if things have gotten worse. Who does she know? how did she get that job, she's talking waffle.

Absurdum

Merch wrote: »

She is a bullsh1tter, at at 1.23 shes talking about new standards and upskilling drivers, all buzzwords wheres the substance, what upskilling is she/could she be talking about. Seems to me as if things have gotten worse. Who does she know? how did she get that job, she's talking waffle.

Agreed. It's a fairly straightforward job imo, a mid-ranking civil servant and a few clerical officers would be able to handle most of the work her office does.

Merch

Schorpio wrote: »

A one year old car doesn't have to have an NCT, because it's extremely unlikely that it would develop any fail-worthy faults after just a year. The odds of a ten year old car being in equal or better shape then a one year old one are tiny. I'm not saying it doesn't happen - I'm just saying it's very, very unlikely.

Also, the nine year rule wasn't brought in just because of the condition of taxis, it was also very much to do with safety. A new car today is much safer than it's 10 year old brother. eg, the first gen Avensis (of which loads are taxis) got a 3 star NCT result back in the day. The new Avensis is a 5 star car, and was put through a far rigorous set of tests. I know which I'd rather be in (driver or passenger).

Im not attacking you personally but thats waffle , a one year car in my mind has equal chance of being in an accident as any other car, a one year old taxi likewise, just as much as a 4 or 5 YO (and edit the chances are it may devolop a fail worthy fault, albeit it would be under warranty). (im not suggesting NCT for 1 YO cars, maybe taxis every year though, not sure if thats the case between 1 and 4 YO for a new taxi vehicle?)
I just picked 1YO to make the point, but it equally means any
car on the road thats relatively new. I'm pointing out that if a taxi was in an accident and was put back on the road because it passed a dodgy NCT then its is likely to be in a worse condition than a 6,7,8,9 or 10 yo car. It is not very,very unlikely if proper care and maintenance is carried out that a car that is 10 YO should be in a worse condition then a relatively new car (I admit 1 YO is at the extreme end of the scale but it is possible).

Also 5 stars may mean something, but it doesnt mean I want to test it out, other things lead to crashes, not just the fact that a car has a 3 star rating. It just means to me a person such as the regulator has no concept of what is involved by just drawing a line in the sand and saying all ten YO cars must go, its ridiculous, how old do you think most of the aircraft people fly on are?? but proper maintenance (fingers crossed i havent tempted fate on someone there) is carried out and yet they still fly?

ger.taxi

just on this program last nite,this guy who was renting plates and cars,never once asked if the insurance covered hire and reward? now i have been driving 20 years and i have always dealt with axa, i pay over 1700 euro a year just to make sure my passengers are properly covered in the event of a accident, this coloured dude to me did not care about this , and the disregard he showed , towards this country and its people made me sick, hope the tax officals and the garda and inspector look at this guy, and bet you we are paying for his house too, what a arrogrant man,, cheers gerry

Merch

ger.taxi wrote: »

just on this program last nite,this guy who was renting plates and cars,never once asked if the insurance covered hire and reward? now i have been driving 20 years and i have always dealt with axa, i pay over 1700 euro a year just to make sure my passengers are properly covered in the event of a accident, this coloured dude to me did not care about this , and the disregard he showed , towards this country and its people made me sick, hope the tax officals and the garda and inspector look at this guy, and bet you we are paying for his house too, what a arrogrant man,, cheers gerry

I agree with some of what you are saying, but in fairness there are some dodgy Irish characters in it too.
If a taxi wasnt legit, I wouldnt get into just cos the guy was Irish. I wouldnt get into it if it was not legit regardless of who was driving it. It undermines those paying insurance and for maintenance if it is not regulated but everyone is washing their hands of it, at the end of the day it needs to be enforced and this can only be done by the gardai. If Joe blogs car isnt taxed, they can have it seized. Gardai shouldnt be just waiting for these to turn up at checkpoints, there needs to be something else, and if someone is found to be driving something that is a wreck and unsafe then it and they need to be taken off the road.

Schorpio

Merch wrote: »

a one year car in my mind has equal chance of being in an accident as any other car, a one year old taxi likewise, just as much as a 4 or 5 YO

I never mentioned anything about having an accident, I was only talking about general road-worthiness. Having an accident is down to so many factors. Age of the car isn't really a factor here, but the condition of the car most definitely is. The driver is also a major factor. A well-maintained, road-worthy 10 year old car is equally likely to have an accident as a new car if both are being driven by the same person (not at the same time ).

Merch wrote: »

(and edit the chances are it may devolop a fail worthy fault, albeit it would be under warranty). (im not suggesting NCT for 1 YO cars, maybe taxis every year though, not sure if thats the case between 1 and 4 YO for a new taxi vehicle?)

I don't understand what a warranty has got to do with it. If you buy a new car you're paying a lot of money for it and warranty is only fair. Even at that, you'd be hard pressed to get a lot of niggles fixed under warranty. But I don't really see your point. A 5 year old taxi that develops an fault needs to be fixed. Just because it's not under warranty and it'll cost money is irrelevant. A taxi driver is ferrying around customers. His taxi is his business. He owes it to his customers that his taxi is kept in the best and safest condition possible.

A taxi must be NCT'd every year. I always presumed a taxi younger than 4 didn't need an NCT cert, but I can't say with 100% confidence.

Merch wrote: »

I just picked 1YO to make the point, but it equally means any car on the road thats relatively new. I'm pointing out that if a taxi was in an accident and was put back on the road because it passed a dodgy NCT then its is likely to be in a worse condition than a 6,7,8,9 or 10 yo car. It is not very,very unlikely if proper care and maintenance is carried out that a car that is 10 YO should be in a worse condition then a relatively new car (I admit 1 YO is at the extreme end of the scale but it is possible).

Yeah, I completely agree with you. A new car which has been involved in an accident and poorly repaired is likely to be in worse shape than a well-maintained older car. I never said anything to the contrary. However, if you take a 2/3 year old car and a 7/8 year old car (both maintained so they'd pass an NCT) the 2/3 year old is likely going to be in better shape. The NCT isn't the be-all and end-all of car testing. It's purpose was to remove the death-traps from our roads. Driving around for years takes it's toll. Obviously there are exceptions (like as you said, poorly repaired accident damage). However, the likelihood is that the younger car is in better shape.

Merch wrote: »

Also 5 stars may mean something, but it doesnt mean I want to test it out, other things lead to crashes, not just the fact that a car has a 3 star rating. It just means to me a person such as the regulator has no concept of what is involved by just drawing a line in the sand and saying all ten YO cars must go, its ridiculous, how old do you think most of the aircraft people fly on are?? but proper maintenance (fingers crossed i havent tempted fate on someone there) is carried out and yet they still fly?

A poor NCAP rating isn't ever going to contribute to a crash happening. It's a measure of how well a car protects it's occupants (and pedestrians) in the event of a crash occurring. Nobody ever wants to test a cars NCAP rating for themselves. Personally I think the NCAP rating is extremely valid when it comes to taxis. We should have the right to know that a taxi we get into has met a minimum standard and will go some way towards protecting it's occupants (drivers included).

With all due respect, aircraft are a whole different beast altogether. Your standard commuter aeroplane has to go through a lot more than just the airborne equivalent of an NCT. If the same standard of upkeep was applied to aircraft as we saw last night, I don't think I'd ever fly again!

Seth Brundle

unkel wrote: »

Applus, the company that runs the National Car Testing service is to launch an investigation into dramatic revelations about bribes to pass defective cars, made in last night’s Prime Time Investigates programme.
...
In a statement this morning, Applus said it would vigorously investigate the matter until all issues raised by the programme, in relation to vehicle inspections, had been fully addressed. It had also reported the matter to the gardai.
...
The National Car Testing service (NCT) has asked RTE to hand over any information it has about alleged wrongdoing over the testing of taxis.
...
This followed claims made on RTE's 'Prime Time' programme last night that a number of unroadworthy taxis passed the NCT test after cash was handed over to individuals.

In fairness, they had plenty of chance to respond and act on the information. The fact, as already mentioned, is that they didn't care enough to respond to RTE when notified of the allegations. IMO Applus don't care as long as they keep making money.

nobody3 wrote: »

They must have known about this. Its interesting that the Taxi Regulator and her office are trying to distance themselves from the affair.

Just like the drug dealers, the big criminals will get away with it, and the street pushers will be locked up until the fuss has died down, and they can all go back to the way things were before Prime Time stuck its nose in. :rolleyes:

If you talk to any taxi driver you get a list of resons why they believe that the taxi regulator's office is just another useless quango.

LIGHTNING wrote: »

While its not suprising it could have some serios repercussions . What if a tester took a 100e to pass a unsafe car and that car was involved in a serious crash because of the issue? Would that person be liable to be prosecuted (involuntary manslaughter?)?

It could be very difficult to prove intentional negligence.

Merch wrote: »

While understood what conor faughnan was saying about testing the equipment, he also seemed to be brushing it off as not their responsibility. Its clear the test isnt robust enough to deter corruption and he should be aiming for that to be something to help eliminate.
Conor was saying something like the overall percent is low, but if one car gets out there in a bad way it undermines the whole test and its dangerous, if its a taxi it undermines it but its worse because the amount of time its on the road, but its worse again as Joe public loses any faith in it whatsoever, Conor cant fob that ****e off.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but what can the AA, as a private organisation, do? They AFAIK don't have authority over it. AIUI, they preform their own checks to allow them to make PR statements

robtri

kbannon wrote: »

In fairness, they had plenty of chance to respond and act on the information. The fact, as already mentioned, is that they didn't care enough to respond to RTE when notified of the allegations. IMO Applus don't care as long as they keep making money.

thats cause they are not paid enough to care, not in their contract to care...

donkey balls

The regulator reminds me of a certain minister for health who deflected blame and anything else to do with her to other depts,:mad:I have worked in the transport industry for over 15 yrs and have dealings with the RSA they dont even have the staff to check private cars/taxis their inspectors check bus&trucks.
If the govt are going close quangos the taxi regulator and the NTA should be first to go,As for people getting a PSV licence proper back ground checks should be done through the gardai vetting office,When I worked at Dub airport anyone getting an ID to go airside had back ground checks carried out with foreign nationals having to produce a letter from there local police station back home.

teednab-el

These developments will probably result in the NCT tests getting more stricter and as a result it will be very hard for the honest Joe and Mary to get their car through the NCT test. At the end of the day it will be the innocent ones who will suffer the consequences not the corrupt ones. Makes me sick this country.

Harrocks

Both cars failed the nct on 1st inspection so the system works.Them again the system is only as good as the people using it.If robots can build cars they propably could test them too.

Where To

Schorpio wrote: »

A taxi must be NCT'd every year. I always presumed a taxi younger than 4 didn't need an NCT cert, but I can't say with 100% confidence.

All SPSVS over three months old or with more than 3000km on the clock have to be NCT'd every year

Capt'n Midnight

Someone wasn't watching this last night - gumtree ad

Date posted: Tuesday 17th May
Location: Dublin

TAXI PLATES FOR RENT INCLUDING ROOF SIGN, METER AND PRINTER
LOW NUMBERS AVAILABLE
CAN BE USED ON CARS UP TO NINE YEARS OLD
AVAILABLE IMMEDIATELY

ADVICE AND ASSISTANCE WITH NCT, METER INSTALLATION AND SGS TO GET YOU ON THE ROAD ASAP

FRIENDLY AND HELPFUL BACKUP

Seth Brundle

5 people suspended from Applus.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2011/0518/1224297223110.html

Capt'n Midnight

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Someone wasn't watching this last night - gumtree ad

Nothing wrong with that add on the face of it.

Jarren

and more info





By Luke Byrne
Wednesday May 18 2011
EIGHT National Car Test (NCT) employees have been suspended following allegations that bribes were taken to pass unfit cars, the Irish Independent has learnt.

On Monday, RTE's 'Prime Time Investigates' revealed that two taxis, deemed dangerous and unfit by experts and initially failed in the NCT, were passed after the payment of €100 per car.


It is understood that following the revelations, five testers at one NCT centre and three at another were suspended on full pay pending an investigation.

Applus, the company that runs the NCT, has launched an inquiry into the allegations.

Last night, it confirmed "a number of staff" had been suspended but would not comment further.

Gardai have also been asked to investigate by Noel Brett, chief executive of the Road Safety Authority, which oversees the NCT.

In a statement yesterday, Applus said the NCT represented "a microcosm of Irish society".

It said it was a "disappointing reflection" if any employee could be tempted into committing such serious fraud for personal financial gain.

"These individuals are not only putting their own employment at risk, but are creating real danger by allowing potentially defective vehicles back on our roads," the statement added.

Applus has asked for a copy of the RTE footage, which will be handed over to gardai.

John Usher, of the National Taxi Drivers' Federation, said the programme provided the first real evidence of such illegal activity and he hoped it would begin a process of rectifying such problems.

"We have rules and regulations there, but you can't legislate for what happens at the back door of the NCT," he said.

A number of customers at one NCT centre said they were concerned about the system put in place by the facility.

Clare Levington, from Lucan, said she felt the whole system needed an overhaul.

"There needs to be a closer watch put on them," she said.

"I think that the contract should go out to tender again," another customer said.

The Government said the entire NCT testing system was being reviewed.

Double-jobbing drivers working 23 hours a day, dangerous vehicles, unvetted drivers with criminal records and ways to pass an NCT in an unroadworthy car were uncovered by the 'Prime Time Investigates' team.

The programme also exposed how taxis could be rented for a weekend for as little as €100 by drivers who didn't have the necessary PSV (public service vehicle) licences and garda vetting.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/eight-nct-staff-suspended-over-claims-bribes-taken-to-pass-cars-2650029.html






By Treacy Hogan
Wednesday May 18 2011
OWNERS bringing their cars for a national car test (NCT) are supposed to have no idea who is going to look under the bonnet.

And, crucially, the tester shouldn't be able to tell which car they are going to inspect at any given time or date.

The cars presented at any of the 70 test centres are allocated to testers on a random basis by computer selection.

Just how someone can ensure that a certain tester will be testing a specific car, at a certain date and time, is expected to form a key element of the investigation.

Spanish multinational company Applus has carried out the NCT on the country's car fleet since January 2010.

It won the 10-year contract -- worth more than €400m -- from the Road Safety Authority (RSA) after a competitive tendering process.

The RSA uses two companies to monitor the performance of the NCT, PricewaterhouseCoopers and AA Ireland.

The former concentrates on corporate governance and systems oversight while the latter performs a mystery-shopper role and brings a car to different centres to check the results generated are correct.

All cars more than four years old must undergo a safety test every two years, and take the test every two years after.

From June 1, all cars older than 10 years will have to pass an annual test.

Up to April 30, some 381,609 tests had been carried out this year.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/inner-workings-of-test-centres-to-be-put-under-the-microscope-2649980.html

kippy

jarecki1976 wrote: »

and more info





By Luke Byrne
Wednesday May 18 2011
EIGHT National Car Test (NCT) employees have been suspended following allegations that bribes were taken to pass unfit cars, the Irish Independent has learnt.

On Monday, RTE's 'Prime Time Investigates' revealed that two taxis, deemed dangerous and unfit by experts and initially failed in the NCT, were passed after the payment of €100 per car.


It is understood that following the revelations, five testers at one NCT centre and three at another were suspended on full pay pending an investigation.

Applus, the company that runs the NCT, has launched an inquiry into the allegations.

Last night, it confirmed "a number of staff" had been suspended but would not comment further.

Gardai have also been asked to investigate by Noel Brett, chief executive of the Road Safety Authority, which oversees the NCT.

In a statement yesterday, Applus said the NCT represented "a microcosm of Irish society".

It said it was a "disappointing reflection" if any employee could be tempted into committing such serious fraud for personal financial gain.

"These individuals are not only putting their own employment at risk, but are creating real danger by allowing potentially defective vehicles back on our roads," the statement added.

Applus has asked for a copy of the RTE footage, which will be handed over to gardai.

John Usher, of the National Taxi Drivers' Federation, said the programme provided the first real evidence of such illegal activity and he hoped it would begin a process of rectifying such problems.

"We have rules and regulations there, but you can't legislate for what happens at the back door of the NCT," he said.

A number of customers at one NCT centre said they were concerned about the system put in place by the facility.

Clare Levington, from Lucan, said she felt the whole system needed an overhaul.

"There needs to be a closer watch put on them," she said.

"I think that the contract should go out to tender again," another customer said.

The Government said the entire NCT testing system was being reviewed.

Double-jobbing drivers working 23 hours a day, dangerous vehicles, unvetted drivers with criminal records and ways to pass an NCT in an unroadworthy car were uncovered by the 'Prime Time Investigates' team.

The programme also exposed how taxis could be rented for a weekend for as little as €100 by drivers who didn't have the necessary PSV (public service vehicle) licences and garda vetting.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/eight-nct-staff-suspended-over-claims-bribes-taken-to-pass-cars-2650029.html






By Treacy Hogan
Wednesday May 18 2011
OWNERS bringing their cars for a national car test (NCT) are supposed to have no idea who is going to look under the bonnet.

And, crucially, the tester shouldn't be able to tell which car they are going to inspect at any given time or date.

The cars presented at any of the 70 test centres are allocated to testers on a random basis by computer selection.

Just how someone can ensure that a certain tester will be testing a specific car, at a certain date and time, is expected to form a key element of the investigation.

Spanish multinational company Applus has carried out the NCT on the country's car fleet since January 2010.

It won the 10-year contract -- worth more than €400m -- from the Road Safety Authority (RSA) after a competitive tendering process.

The RSA uses two companies to monitor the performance of the NCT, PricewaterhouseCoopers and AA Ireland.

The former concentrates on corporate governance and systems oversight while the latter performs a mystery-shopper role and brings a car to different centres to check the results generated are correct.

All cars more than four years old must undergo a safety test every two years, and take the test every two years after.

From June 1, all cars older than 10 years will have to pass an annual test.

Up to April 30, some 381,609 tests had been carried out this year.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/inner-workings-of-test-centres-to-be-put-under-the-microscope-2649980.html

Based on the second article there is appears as if cars SHOULD be given to testers at random - either that doesnt actually happen, the random selection isnt that "random" or potentially all the testers are on the take.........

Nice work there from Applus pushing the blame onto Irish society........

This makes me really angry - wtf is the point of being an honest, straight up, law abiding citizen in this country when this kinda stuff goes on and the people who we pay a lot of money to ensure it doesn't fail miserably.

mike65

If Applus were as smart as they are big they would send through NCT failures on a random basis and see how well faults are identified and use fake customers to sound of those who are open to bribes.

listermint

Quite simple, they should stop making excuses, be given 2 months to fix it or lose the contract, Or else just take the contract off them all together.

Blaming society in a statement. B**ls to that. People will chance their arm at anything. We are paying this company to put in proper procedures to counter that. That are not doing their job.

robtri

6 in fonthill.... suspended ...........

stee.mc79

robtri wrote: »

6 in fonthill.... suspended ...........

Suspended with FULL PAY!!!! It was also said in the program that fraud was going on throughout the country by the whistle blower.

robtri

stee.mc79 wrote: »

Suspended with FULL PAY!!!! It was also said in the program that fraud was going on throughout the country by the whistle blower.

much as it pains me to say it...
they are entitled to full pay till the matter is fully investigated by the company.......

donkey balls

mike65 wrote: »

If Applus were as smart as they are big they would send through NCT failures on a random basis and see how well faults are identified and use fake customers to sound of those who are open to bribes.

Very good point when I worked in the Airline industry our security procedures pre 9/11 and after were constantly tested by our own internal security people and the DOT aviation security,None of this howya lads we are going call at a certain time have the kettle on:rolleyes:.

schween

I bought a car last year, which had 'passed' the NCT a week earlier. Pretty quick the faults appeared. No break pads, bad tyres, seat belts broken basically the car was a death trap. I'm pretty useless with cars and buying cars so it's my own fault but I lost any faith I had in the NCT cert.

A friend of mine had his NCT completed in less than 5 minutes. He said they just didn't seem that bothered, gave it a quick look over and drove it out the other side.

stee.mc79

I thought this new government was about making the hard decisions!
If so why have the set up yet another enquiry at more cost to the tax payer?
Why can't they make the decision to terminate the regulators and let the Garda deal with the situation temporarily, funded with the money saved from the regulators salaries. Until a better& fairer solution is found. Having 9 people police the amount of taxi's on the road and cover the whole of the country is a bit of a joke.

Capt'n Midnight

RoverJames wrote: »

Nothing wrong with that add on the face of it.

yeah , but you gotta love the timing

cadaliac

mike65 wrote: »

If Applus were as smart as they are big they would send through NCT failures on a random basis and see how well faults are identified and use fake customers to sound of those who are open to bribes.

No, the problem with the NCT testers passing cars that they shouldn't pass comes from an intermediatery person. i.e. someone who takes your money, contacts the tester and gives them the deatils of the car to pass.
A local inspector will only test a bad car - not the tester so to speak.

stee.mc79

cadaliac wrote: »

No, the problem with the NCT testers passing cars that they shouldn't pass comes from an intermediatery person. i.e. someone who takes your money, contacts the tester and gives them the deatils of the car to pass.
A local inspector will only test a bad car - not the tester so to speak.

There is the problem as well of having to go over the work the testers in question has done before. Which the centre should do at it's own expense. It's what's done in most businesses when there's a question over the quality of there work.

stee.mc79

stee.mc79 wrote: »

There is the problem as well of having to go over the work the testers in question has done before. Which the centre should do at it's own expense. It's what's done in most businesses do when there's a question over the quality of there work.

How would you do that, bring back all the cars they tested??

stee.mc79

RoverJames wrote: »

How would you do that, bring back all the cars they tested??

No look for anomaly in the system where cars have failed miserably in 1 test centre and passed in another a couple of hours l8r. Or do a batch inspection take cars at random that have passed the test bring them back and retest them at the centers expense. It's what is done in the automotive parts industry where I work

robtri

stee.mc79 wrote: »

No look for anomaly in the system where cars have failed miserably in 1 test centre and passed in another a couple of hours l8r. Or do a batch inspection take cars at random that have passed the test bring them back and retest them at the centers expense. It's what is done in the automotive parts industry where I work

who is going to agree to bring there car back for a another examination???
considering the vehicle owner knows the car is dodgy, why would they bring there car back at a later stage....
it is not as if you can force them..

CarMuppet

How about recalling cars with a number of catastrophic/serious failures found to be passing subsequently in a very short time interval.

All this data is stored on a database. So running some very simple queries on this database should pull a number of 'suspect' cars. Then offer free testing to the owners on their next test(s) etc. The reg numbers could be 'flagged' on the system for detailed inspection etc.


For example finding a car on the database failing for suspension, brake and structural damage then found to be passing within 24/48/72 hours. This would be, imo, suspect.



EDIT!! read ALL thread... already mentioned.... right I'm back to bed......:)

Capt'n Midnight

stee.mc79 wrote: »

No look for anomaly in the system where cars have failed miserably in 1 test centre and passed in another a couple of hours l8r. Or do a batch inspection take cars at random that have passed the test bring them back and retest them at the centers expense. It's what is done in the automotive parts industry where I work

you could also look for cars that passed suspiciously quickly on repairs that should take a long time especially repairs that would be expensive considering the value of the car

you could look to see if a car fails the same tests the previous year


But yeah you are looking for patterns, testers with higher pass rates on retests on certain items

is it possible to compare the login times to the time the cert was issued , may give an indication if some tests were carried out too quickly


Depending on how extensive it is it might be worth doing an examination of all cars involved in fatal accidents or all cars written off in crashes and comparing to the most recent NCT's

Capt'n Midnight

License plate recognigion cameras should be able to pick up on duplicated license plates. ( ie you can't get from point A to point B in less than a certain amount of time without breaking the speed limit )

TBH the plate should be for a particular car like it used to be. The car shouldn't be off the road for a long time if it's in good nick. There would be forms and stuff required to transfer the plate to a new car. ( maybe do online, so it can be linked to the currently valid PSV test reports )

cadaliac

Captain, you are dancing faster than the music.
All those ideas are good but in reality - what will happen? Not too much. Any car that has a valid cert issued by any NCT centre, is valid, and it will be very difficult to get anyone to bring their car back far any test. You are going into consumer rights territory.
Also, if the NCT centres really want to find out who is on the take, they will. It's not that difficult, as you say, a few hours on the database; filtering pass and fail amounts and cross referencing against reg numbers would clearly point to guilty parties and guilty centres.
I just pity anyone who has an NCT coming up soon.

stee.mc79

robtri wrote: »

who is going to agree to bring there car back for a another examination???
considering the vehicle owner knows the car is dodgy, why would they bring there car back at a later stage....
it is not as if you can force them..

I never said anything about forcing.. I was saying there should be some form of re check done ( in a perfect world but it's not perfect is it?)

Expecting folk to bring their cars back for testing to verify the earlier test was carried out correctly and by the book is looney and not remotely feasible. Also looking for patterns with retests is quite likely a waste of time, in most cases the sh1t heaps that are being "tested" under a bribe are first time tests, folks know they have no chance of passing which is why the testers are being bribed. Primetime got rechecks done to highlight the difference in reports pre and post bribe.

Our man in Havana

3 NCT inspectors fired.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0518/taxi.html

Three NCT vehicle inspectors have been dismissed following following revelations on RTÉ Prime Time Investigates.

Seven staff had been suspended by the operator of the National Car Test, Applus, and in a statement the company confirmed that three of those had been dismissed.

'National Car Testing Service is committed to ensuring that any potential for fraudulent activity within the test system is eradicated and investigations into the allegations made will continue in conjunction with a formal report submitted to An Garda Síochána by NCTS,' it said.

gman2k

It is simply a management failing by the NCT company that this has happened.
If management were carrying out regular random post-test checks at the exit door of the centres then this would never have happened.
It's common in every other job that I know, that the management will actually look at the standard of your work from time to time.

Like all forms of employee fraud, if you set up a system with holes in it, employees will exploit these holes once they are spotted. It's a management failing always to let employees expolit the system to their advantage. Whether it's theft of consumables, till fraud, grazing or use of company time/ equipment, it's always management to blame.

Sure, the guys who get caught should be fired, and prosecuted, but NCT themselves now need to sort out their stall.

Dilbert75

Given that my car (before I bought it) was passed twice at the same centre with CO emissions exactly on the limit, but when it failed for me and I investigated found that it had no material in the main cat or in one of the two pre-cats, I wonder should I contact Applus and suggest they investigate? The test centre for all tests was Northpoint, which is one of the centres identified by the report.

Seth Brundle

gman2k wrote: »

It is simply a management failing by the NCT company that this has happened.
If management were carrying out regular random post-test checks at the exit door of the centres then this would never have happened.
It's common in every other job that I know, that the management will actually look at the standard of your work from time to time.

Like all forms of employee fraud, if you set up a system with holes in it, employees will exploit these holes once they are spotted. It's a management failing always to let employees expolit the system to their advantage. Whether it's theft of consumables, till fraud, grazing or use of company time/ equipment, it's always management to blame.

Sure, the guys who get caught should be fired, and prosecuted, but NCT themselves now need to sort out their stall.

Given the attitude shown by Applus when RTE had to doorstep their MD to get a form of response or acknowledgement of the issue, I have no doubt that they were fully aware of the issue but seemingly never did anything to resolve it.
I also believe that the issue was present prior to the changeover from SGS to Applus.

Dilbert75 wrote: »

Given that my car (before I bought it) was passed twice at the same centre with CO emissions exactly on the limit, but when it failed for me and I investigated found that it had no material in the main cat or in one of the two pre-cats, I wonder should I contact Applus and suggest they investigate? The test centre for all tests was Northpoint, which is one of the centres identified by the report.

May as well but they will probably not do anything as it was before Applus were at the helm.

Dilbert75

True.

Seth Brundle

Just thinking, given the corruption that has been going on within Applus, I wonder if anyone (dealers or otherwise) have been slipping them a few quid to reduce the VRT on imports. It would be worth it if you were importing something expensive or if you were registering a few cars.

Our man in Havana

kbannon wrote: »

Just thinking, given the corruption that has been going on within Applus, I wonder if anyone (dealers or otherwise) have been slipping them a few quid to reduce the VRT on imports. It would be worth it if you were importing something expensive or if you were registering a few cars.

Who knows for sure? Not beyond the realms of possibility.

VRT should have never been farmed out to that mob.