howth head lap attack

violator13

Came down howth head the other day..Lula pulls out in front of me..Nearly came off the bike-was doing about 30mph near the church.. No hand up to say sorry or hazzards etc.. I managed to catch up with him -he started laughing saying -You cyclists shouldnt be on the road. I had a full water bottle of hi5. Guess what happened -it ended up on his lap soaking him. waved him goodbye and made my way off-angry at a near death experience but happy

Hermy

You know that's very bold but well done.:D

john__long

Good! You're following the plan!

kennyb3

Nearly certain the speed limit in howth village is 30km/ph, so guess who is the idiot? what if an old person or kid walked out and you re doing 30mph? Cyclist's have to be responsible too, and in fairness any i ve rode around howth with have tended to slow down in that area as its well known to be dangerous.

Deisetrek

kennyb3 wrote: »

Nearly certain the speed limit in howth village is 30km/ph, so guess who is the idiot? what if an old person or kid walked out and you re doing 30mph? Cyclist's have to be responsible too, and in fairness any i ve rode around howth with have tended to slow down in that area as its well known to be dangerous.

Sorry with OP on this one , driver laughed in his face after nearly creaming him , got exactly what he deserved .

coastwatch

Agree with Kennyb, it's a bit naive or even reckless to cycle at high speed in a residential area. You may well have been in the right, but really, the old saying, "expect the unexpected" applies.
Might be better to take a bottle of "cop-on" instead of Hi5 next time.

goldencleric

kennyb3 wrote: »

Nearly certain the speed limit in howth village is 30km/ph, so guess who is the idiot?

Really?

Completely agree with OP on this one. Fair play to you!

Tenzor07

30mph coming down that side means the OP had his brakes on and was being careful...

50mph would have been a different story, the guy in the car was an a$$ plain and simple!

steve9859

I train on howth head a lot and 30 mph is pretty fast past the church. Driver is ignorant for laughing, sure, but if there had been a crash, the OP would not be blameless at all - at 50% faster than the speed limit I'd say they would not get any sympathy from the gardai.

kennyb3

Deisetrek wrote: »

Sorry with OP on this one , driver laughed in his face after nearly creaming him , got exactly what he deserved .

Not saying the driver was right (very far from it) and id be equally as mad.

But the cyclist has to accept he was breaking the law speeding.

Retaliating only escalates teh situation. What if the driver followed him up the road and ran him over?

Is the drivers attitude towards cylists going to improve now?

edit:

Also what is this whole side taking thing. The driver was in the wrong for nearly creaming him, the cyclist was in the wrong for speeding. To me both were wrong to varying degrees

Deisetrek

kennyb3 wrote: »

Not saying the driver was right (very far from it) and id be equally as mad.

But the cyclist has to accept he was breaking the law speeding.

Retaliating only escalates teh situation. What if the driver followed him up the road and ran him over?

Is the drivers attitude towards cylists going to improve now?

edit:

Also what is this whole side taking thing. The driver was in the wrong for nearly creaming him, the cyclist was in the wrong for speeding. To me both were wrong to varying degrees

Thing about it is , the cyclist might be "wrong" for as you call it speeding (I would say the speed may have been exaggerated by the OP anyway) but the driver has a ton of metal backing up his "error" . I know in who's shoes I would have preferred to have been if they had come together . Go on tell me you would not like to have done the same to that d***head that cut you off at the roundabout in the last few months and laughed in your face in his rear view mirror when you remonstrated with him ? " Is the drivers attitude towards cyclists going to improve now" you ask?? Are you happy with his present one ? I mean he laughed in his face afterwards ( before he threw the plastic bottle)...hardly going to improve the attitude of a imbecile like that ?

kennyb3

Deisetrek wrote: »

Thing about it is , the cyclist might be "wrong" for as you call it speeding (I would say the speed may have been exaggerated by the OP anyway) but the driver has a ton of metal backing up his "error" . I know in who's shoes I would have preferred to have been if they had come together . Go on tell me you would not like to have done the same to that d***head that cut you off at the roundabout in the last few months and laughed in your face in his rear view mirror when you remonstrated with him ? " Is the drivers attitude towards cyclists going to improve now" you ask?? Are you happy with his present one ? I mean he laughed in his face afterwards ( before he threw the plastic bottle)...hardly going to improve the attitude of a imbecile like that ?

I dont disagree that the cyclist will come off worse. And i don't blame the cyclist for going mad - i ve given many a driver the finger. I even chased one as far as sutton cross one day and shout all sorts of abuse at him.

Pouring a bottle over him might be taking it a bit far. Better taking the registration and reporting it. i ve come to learn getting angry only makes it worse and the driver might retaliate back.

My point is only that the OP has a responsibility to be safe too and speeding around a built up village isnt very bright. My point is more that I hope he uses this as a lesson as to what might happen rather than just saying i was right he was wrong type of thing.

Im sure the driver could argue that they pulled out as there was sufficient time but that as a result of the OP's speeding they came upon them too quick. This happens with cars too, one car pulls out and another car comes flying over a hill twice the speed limit and takes them out.

As cyclist we cant just assume we are right and drivers are wrong all the time, the OP had a hand to play in it too.

Lumen

kennyb3 wrote: »

But the cyclist has to accept he was breaking the law speeding.

Speed limits do not apply to bicycles.

Chips Lovell

Speed limits only apply to motorised vehicles. Having said that, it doesn't absolve you of the responsibility to cycle responsibly in a built up area. I find you really need to scrub out the speed as you come into the village because you get cars pulling out and pedestrians walking out onto the road with little warning.

In short, the guy was in the wrong for pulling out without looking, but you were probably going too fast for reacting to hazards that can and do occur.

Deisetrek

kennyb3 wrote: »

I dont disagree that the cyclist will come off worse. And i don't blame the cyclist for going mad - i ve given many a driver the finger. I even chased one as far as sutton cross one day and shout all sorts of abuse at him.

Pouring a bottle over him might be taking it a bit far. Better taking the registration and reporting it. i ve come to learn getting angry only makes it worse and the driver might retaliate back.

My point is only that the OP has a responsibility to be safe too and speeding around a built up village isnt very bright. My point is more that I hope he uses this as a lesson as to what might happen rather than just saying i was right he was wrong type of thing.

Im sure the driver could argue that they pulled out as there was sufficient time but that as a result of the OP's speeding they came upon them too quick. This happens with cars too, one car pulls out and another car comes flying over a hill twice the speed limit and takes them out.

As cyclist we cant just assume we are right and drivers are wrong all the time, the OP had a hand to play in it too.

It seems to me if I read it correctly it's as much an issue for you , of the level of retaliation by the cyclist ? He lobbed a plastic bottle at him whereas you admit to "giving many a driver the finger" , and chasing one up to Sutton cross "to shout all sorts of abuse at him" . There is every chance the drivers in any of your instances could have retaliated back as much as the idiot driver in this case .
I will take your point about both having responsibility but I still have to say fair play to the OP for his actions .

Pigeon Reaper

As far as I remember it's 50kmph speed limit in the village. I wouldn't even drive at that speed through the village as there are always idiots about.

kennyb3

Deisetrek wrote: »

It seems to me if I read it correctly it's as much an issue for you , of the level of retaliation by the cyclist ? He lobbed a plastic bottle at him whereas you admit to "giving many a driver the finger" , and chasing one up to Sutton cross "to shout all sorts of abuse at him" . There is every chance the drivers in any of your instances could have retaliated back as much as the idiot driver in this case .
I will take your point about both having responsibility but I still have to say fair play to the OP for his actions .

Its nothing to do with the level of retaliation for me. You asked me have i never wanted to re act that way and im saying yeah i ve got mad blah blah but have come to learn it gets you nowhere.

The being responsible bit is all im interested in as much to keep the OP alive in future - not who is right or wrong and to what degree.

Descending at circa 50km/ph into a built up village with traffic merging (at the church), multiple side roads and pedestrians is asking for trouble.

kennyb3

Lumen wrote: »

Speed limits do not apply to bicycles.

Fair enough I was wrong on that but if you hit a pedestrian at 50km/ph you might severly injure them and yourself so i guess its a case of using your head.

Lumen

kennyb3 wrote: »

Fair enough I was wrong on that but if you hit a pedestrian at 50km/ph you might severly injure them and yourself so i guess its a case of using your head.

Sure. Speed limits are essentially a license restriction and nothing to do with safety. Dangerous driving can be over or under the limit.

Dermot Illogical

kennyb3 wrote: »

Nearly certain the speed limit in howth village is 30km/ph, so guess who is the idiot? what if an old person or kid walked out and you re doing 30mph? Cyclist's have to be responsible too, and in fairness any i ve rode around howth with have tended to slow down in that area as its well known to be dangerous.

There's a church on the other side of Howth too, so may not have been the village. I hit 64km/h coming down that side a few weeks back

violator13

No I was in full control of my bike at a guess id say 30 max. I cycle with care and the road was clear. I have a long fuse and do not chase down or abuse drivers. I am very defensive on the bike in general. I drive 40k a year for my job so can see both sides. I dont break lights and dont regard doing 30mph fast when the cars around me are driving faster down the same hill. I DO have an issue with reckless careless driving -ie somebody not looking and pulling out in front of me and thinking its a laugh and abusing me verbally when infact if they had said " sorry mate I didnt see you " Id live with it..Remember I stopped and avoided the situation by good bike skills and observation. I HAD right of way after all.

You telling me some cyclists on this board cycle at 15mph down this hill? on what a bmx?

If any pedestrian walks across the road and gets hit by a bike or a car because they dont look around them thats their fault not mine.There is the green cross code after all.

Tenzor07

Coming down the Sutton side of Howth I almost joined 3 people in the back of a hire car who had slowed/stopped right in the middle of the road to take pictures out the window of the sea! I mean WTF! Stop and get out to take the pics!

Though i'm sure i am in one of there pics giving them the 2 finger salute!

chakattack

30mph (48 kph) is too fast for where you were and if you're not expecting a car to emerge coming into a village you're not riding smart.

The guy in the car sounds like a wanker but now he's an incensed wanker who probably has it out for all roadies.

Cheers!

Chips Lovell

violator13 wrote: »

No I was in full control of my bike

Really?

violator13 wrote: »

Nearly came off the bike-was doing about 30mph near the church.

There was two of you in it:

He: Pulling out without looking
You: Going too fast in a built up area
He: Laughing at your complaint
You: Chucking an energy drink all over him.

You deserve each other.

goldencleric

chakattack wrote: »

30mph (48 kph) is too fast for where you were and if you're not expecting a car to emerge coming into a village you're not riding smart.

The guy in the car sounds like a wanker but now he's an incensed wanker who probably has it out for all roadies.

Cheers!

No no no! It's not the roadies, it's the Chinese he's after.

a148pro

Can I suggest to anyone cycling this that they start the ascent at Howth village and then descend the much wider and safer road (Carrickbrack Road?) down into Sutton?

Cycling at high speed down in the other direction, into Howth village, is just stupid and dangerous. Its one of the steeper roads in Dublin, has a good few bends, some of them tight, is built up and is likely to have a decent amount of pedestrian and vehicular traffic. And the chances of one such pedestrian or vehicle coming out in front of you, in the wrong or otherwise, is pretty high. I'd say if you hit a pedestrian coming down that road you could seriously hurt them, and end up in court.

The bottom of the hill in the other direction is a long, straight, flat section which is perfect to hit, literally as fast as you can.

DirkVoodoo

a148pro wrote: »

Can I suggest to anyone cycling this that they start the ascent at Howth village and then descend the much wider and safer road (Carrickbrack Road?) down into Sutton?

Cycling at high speed down in the other direction, into Howth village, is just stupid and dangerous. Its one of the steeper roads in Dublin, has a good few bends, some of them tight, is built up and is likely to have a decent amount of pedestrian and vehicular traffic. And the chances of one such pedestrian or vehicle coming out in front of you, in the wrong or otherwise, is pretty high. I'd say if you hit a pedestrian coming down that road you could seriously hurt them, and end up in court.

The bottom of the hill in the other direction is a long, straight, flat section which is perfect to hit, literally as fast as you can.

There is nothing wrong with descending into Howth village, as long as you approach it slowly. The road is fine, I believe there are pedestrian lights along it? Otherwise, I believe a pedestrian crossing the road is as likely to be hit by any type of traffic, be it bike or car.

My only near miss on that road was an unrestrained dog running out ahead of its owner in front of me, near the church. That was not the fault of the road, the speed limits, or the number of bends in the road and could have happened anywhere. Asking cyclists to go elsewhere does not absolve people of the responsibility of restraining their pets or crossing the road safely.

chakattack

a148pro wrote: »

Can I suggest to anyone cycling this that they start the ascent at Howth village and then descend the much wider and safer road (Carrickbrack Road?) down into Sutton?

Cycling at high speed down in the other direction, into Howth village, is just stupid and dangerous. Its one of the steeper roads in Dublin, has a good few bends, some of them tight, is built up and is likely to have a decent amount of pedestrian and vehicular traffic. And the chances of one such pedestrian or vehicle coming out in front of you, in the wrong or otherwise, is pretty high. I'd say if you hit a pedestrian coming down that road you could seriously hurt them, and end up in court.

The bottom of the hill in the other direction is a long, straight, flat section which is perfect to hit, literally as fast as you can.

While it's not a great idea to try for a personal land speed record on that stretch, court is highly doubtful but hospital is a strong possibility. The cyclist would have right of way and pedestrians should use the safe cross code etc.

a148pro

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

There is nothing wrong with descending into Howth village, as long as you approach it slowly.

Asking cyclists to go elsewhere does not absolve people of the responsibility of restraining their pets or crossing the road safely.

I completely agree. I'm not asking cyclists to go elsewhere, I'm just suggesting that if you want to boot it down go in the other direction where its safe to do so. Anyone cycling down into Howth village should do so very slowly.

Raam

It's always dangerous in the village.

Here is the catalogue of danger...

1. As you approach the church there is a slip road to the left
2. there is also a road to the right
3. Then after the church there is another road to the left
4. and there is parking on the left
5. and on the right
6. not to mention the pedestrian light
7. Further on there is the road from the left which merges
8. Then there is more parking on the right where the hotel was
9. Then there is two more turns to the left
10. Finally there is the Abbey Tavern where there can be tour buses

It's still nice to go fast when it's all clear, but you need your eyes on stilts to do it.

cdaly_

Don't forget the traffic light further back about halfway down from the summit. AFAICT, it's a sensor-switched light to allow traffic out of a side road. Chances are it won't notice a descending bike and will happily change for an emerging car as you are reaching Mach3 on the descent...

setanta159

Raam wrote: »

It's always dangerous in the village.


Here is the catalogue of danger...

1. As you approach the church there is a slip road to the left
2. there is also a road to the right
3. Then after the church there is another road to the left
4. and there is parking on the left
5. and on the right
6. not to mention the pedestrian light
7. Further on there is the road from the left which merges
8. Then there is more parking on the right where the hotel was
9. Then there is two more turns to the left
10. Finally there is the Abbey Tavern where there can be tour buses

It's still nice to go fast when it's all clear, but you need your eyes on stilts to do it.

11. The road surface on the bend prior to the Abbey Tavern is crap, if you are going too fast at that point and don't know the surface you may well come a cropper right there.