All Queen visit related discussion goes here.

Big Nasty

SHOVELLER wrote: »

Love the protestors in english football tops throwing shapes. They have some national identity crisis there. Brits Out rubbish then they will go home cheer on one english club against another on sky while referring to their friends as "mates".

These people are an embarrassment.

While you are quite correct this was done to death yesterday and ended up with the thread spiralling out of control.

ejmaztec

rebel without a clue wrote: »

this country is a walking contradiction beefy. when we are finished fighting with the foreigners, we fight eachother.

Nothing like a bit of history:(

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xx8WshBEoug

SHOVELLER

MCMLXXV wrote: »

While you are quite correct this was done to death yesterday and ended up with the thread spiralling out of control.

Apologies!

heyheyhey1982

Eirrgi just look like a bunch of junkies that have nothing better to do.

Today would of been quieter in town as its dole day.

As for Sinn Fein i can understand Gerry Adams having a problem with the queen. I can honestly say i don't want the six counties back- the ROI couldnt afford to support them. A united Ireland is a dream IMO.

Wolfe Tone

Beefy78 wrote: »

I've been trying to avoid making a 'serious' post on this because I'm English and obviously this is an extremely emotive issue for a lot of Irish people.

Either you want good relations with Britain or you don't. I'm certainly not going to tell you that you should want them or not. If you choose to hate Britain, its Army, its Head of State, its media, whatever then that's entirely your choice.

If you do want good relations then the price for that is not obsessing over the blood spilled up until now. For anyone who lost a friend or a loved one I imagine that that price is too high. If it's too high for everyone else then I just hope that our grandchildren think differently.

Sweep it under the carpet eh?


Britain wants, and always has, to pretend that they have done nothing wrong. I don't think its too much to ask that the Queen acknowledges what her army has done.

An apology, an expression of regret from her would only be beneficial in helping people to forgive and move on.

The bloody sunday families had to fight for decades to get that acknowledgement. The relations of those killed at the ballymurphy massacre still are. The friends and relations of those killed by loyalists and the British state in Dublin and Monaghan still are. So we should just leave all that? Sure who cares as long as we can show Queenie around croker?

shadowninty

sensibleken wrote: »

on the contrary that is exactly what shelved means.

Well as far as I know it always was used to mean cancelled
Let's not argue over a word

sensibleken wrote: »

To make such an assertion is to ignore the majority of the late 19th century

I realise that, but support was being gained continuessly, even major reforms were made to get it through

sensibleken wrote: »

Given by who? This you are making up

it was a hypothetical situation to try to grasp what would the UK losing the war mean - I was addressing your point

sensibleken wrote: »

Who had a vote. Women didnt. Even the men constatntly voted for self rule but did not get it. Womens rights were asserted in the proclamation though

But they were to get it! These things take time, lots of time esp back then

Women were given the vote on equal terms by the Irish government long before the UK did - a big positive with regards to independence

sensibleken wrote: »

You can call them terrorists if you want. Its as meaningless a name as freedom fighters. Todays terrorists are not uniformed when engaging in activities, they do not take on armies in open warfare and do not seize buildings. They couldnt be more different than the men of 1916

That's a very good point
I honestly don't know what to think of them, I was saying how many Irish UK soldiers must've felt immediately afterward the Easter Rising

sensibleken wrote: »

However I doubt your commitment to historical honesty as you clearly have an agenda

I certainly have no agenda, and there is no point in manipulation of history.

That post of mine was to address another post, it doesn't necessarly represent my views.

tayto lover

Prior to the visit i had great reservations. I have to say now that i think it will do far more good than harm. The question we must ask ourselves is will the visit help to repair the relationship between Ireland and G.B. and will foreign opinion of our country be improved ? I think both answers will be positive.
We have to put the past behind us at some stage and move on for the sake of our children and future generations.

My name is URL

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

An apology, an expression of regret from her would only be beneficial in helping people to forgive and move on.

If she said sorry, would that be enough for you? Would you move on? Serious question..

I personally think an apology would be nothing more than an empty gesture. Her laying of the wreath yesterday is far more meaningful than an apology would be.

starviewadams

Think David Cameron just passed by the house here,Garda escort and helicopter and those cool looking BMW's again,must've flew into Baldonnel.

Wolfe Tone

My name is URL wrote: »

If she said sorry, would that be enough for you? Would you move on? Serious question..

I personally think an apology would be nothing more than an empty gesture. Her laying of the wreath yesterday is far more meaningful than an apology would be.

I think what would help everyone move on would be for that truth and reconciliation forum to be set up. People deserve the truth, people on all sides.


But yes, if there was an apology it would certainly help. Personally speaking I think it would be great. If by "move on" you mean stop wanting a UI then the answer would be a resounding no.

Justin10

Just to note the Queen did say sorry to the people of South Africa for the Armys behaviour.

sensibleken

gigino wrote: »

Along with the 137 nbillion you mention the UK has injected in to Ireland , it has been the 2nd biggest contributer to EEC / EC funds - out of which we have done rather well over 4 decades, do'nt you agree.
Fine, tell them to keep their last 7 billion, but when Cowen was writing the cheques last November for social welfare, public service etc he need that money...
Will be interesting to see what happens when the current shedload of IMF / EC / UK money runs out...

They havent injected 137 billion into the economy. they have that much invested. at least read a newspaper

rebel without a clue

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Sweep it under the carpet eh?


Britain wants, and always has, to pretend that they have done nothing wrong. I don't think its too much to ask that the Queen acknowledges what her army has done.

An apology, an expression of regret from her would only be beneficial in helping people to forgive and move on.

The bloody sunday families had to fight for decades to get that acknowledgement. The relations of those killed at the ballymurphy massacre still are. The friends and relations of those killed by loyalists and the British state in Dublin and Monaghan still are. So we should just leave all that? Sure who cares as long as we can show Queenie around croker?

ok ok, if she actually says "sorry", will you move on? i had relations killed in the dublin bombings and their family are not ranting on the way you are. they want justice in the sence of the english government re-opening files and getting to the bottom of who did what and why. they are not expecting the queen to fall on her knees and beg for forgiveness. also what about the victims of the warrington and canary wharf bombings etc. ? sure they want justice too.

portach king

Forgive my ignorance but who is expected to make a speech this evening? Are we to only expect the Queen to make one, or is Mcaleese going to saying something too. I'm curious if Cameron is going to saying something given his attendance.

pablomakaveli

My name is URL wrote: »

If she said sorry, would that be enough for you? Would you move on? Serious question..

I personally think an apology would be nothing more than an empty gesture. Her laying of the wreath yesterday is far more meaningful than an apology would be.

I agree. First of all it wouldn't make a difference. No doubt some would feel it still wasn't enough and demand more.

An apology from the soldiers who opened fire on Bloody Sunday or those who took part in the Dublin-monaghan bombings and those who tried to cover it up would be a lot more meaningful than one from the queen given she'd no part in either of those incidents.

Wolfe Tone

Im not saying she should get on her knees and beg. I'm not even saying her apology should be as unequivocal as Camerons(that was great I thought, beneficial all round)

I just dont want to see her come over and play happy families while forgetting about all those who still dont have the truth acknowledged because of British coverups. It doesnt have to be a specific apology or anything either.

My name is URL

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

I think what would help everyone move on would be for that truth and reconciliation forum to be set up. People deserve the truth, people on all sides.

I certainly agree with you there, and think a reconciliation forum would be a great idea.

But yes, if there was an apology it would certainly help. Personally speaking I think it would be great. If by "move on" you mean stop wanting a UI then the answer would be a resounding no.

Nah, I didn't mean would it stop you wanting a UI.. There's plenty of people who would love to see that some day, me included. But it's up to the people of NI to bring that about by democratic means. I respect your wish for her to apologise and can see why it could go towards helping people move on, but conversely there are those who would use it as a stick to beat her with even further. They'd see it as a full acceptance of blame by Britain for all of the bad things that happened on this island over the years.

Dunny

Anyone know if this speech will be televised and what time?

Wolfe Tone

My name is URL wrote: »

I certainly agree with you there, and think a reconciliation forum would be a great idea.



Nah, I didn't mean would it stop you wanting a UI.. There's plenty of people who would love to see that some day, me included. But it's up to the people of NI to bring that about by democratic means. I respect your wish for her to apologise and can see why it could go towards helping people move on, but conversely there are those who would use it as a stick to beat her with even further. They'd see it as a full acceptance of blame by Britain for all of the bad things that happened on this island over the years.

I know that.


The IRA apologized for innocents killed. I dont see why the queen shouldn't either, or at least express regret at the fact her soldiers massacred civilians.

Justin10

On around 8 I think

Beefy78

My name is URL wrote: »

but conversely there are those who would use it as a stick to beat her with even further. They'd see it as a full acceptance of blame by Britain for all of the bad things that happened on this island over the years.

That is precisely how it would be portrayed/perceived in Britain and why pragmatically it won't happen whether it should or shouldn't.

smokedeels

ejmaztec wrote: »

I thought it was Ross Kemp wondering whether to do a Dublin gangs programme.

Or Howard Webb, sent over by the British to maintain order.

df1985

That girl on the news having an orgasm because she saw the queen-"who gets to the see the queen, the actual queen" blah blah blah.........

eh millions of people down the years love, in countries all over the world.They dont hide her in a box.

portach king

Rochey18 wrote: »

On around 8 I think

7:30 actually

Cathaoirleach

df1985 wrote: »

They dont hide her in a box.

I have a suspicion that they do.

mike65

For anyone who's interested

Enda Kenny and David Cameron news conference
Taoiseach Enda Kenny and British Prime Minister David Cameron hold a news conference at Government Buildings (1805 approx)

on www.rte.ie/live

rebel without a clue

Beefy78 wrote: »

That is precisely how it would be portrayed/perceived in Britain and why pragmatically it won't happen whether it should or shouldn't.

we could write a song about the queen saying sorry then, and sing it at every gaa/soccer/rugby match! let the tourists know that we beat an apology out of queenie and that we are the greatest little country in the world and accept foreigners with open arms.

DDC1990

I dont really have much of an opinion on the Queens visit to be honest, except to say that I think it is good to move on, but maybe the visit is a little too early. However, It seems to be in the same vain as a bandage, just rip it off and hopefully it'll be ok.

One thing that bothers me though is the sheer hypocricy of some of the posters here.
You tell Republican posters that they need to move on and times have changed, while throwing in jibes of "Shinners", "Terrorists" etc. Maybe you yourselves should move on and accept that not everyone in the country that has a republican outlook is a terrorist. Also Sinn Féin is a politcal party, NOT a terrorist organization. The muppets burning the flag and throwing things at the Gárdaí were not representives of Sinn Féin (outwardly at least). They were common thugs. Sinn Féin protested quietly and let off 900 Baloons to symbolise the deaths during Ireland's struggle for Independance.

So stop being hypocrits, Move On and look at Sinn Féin as a political party, and maybe they might move on and accept Ireland as it is now.

Laois_Man

gigino wrote: »

Along with the 137 nbillion you mention the UK has injected in to Ireland , it has been the 2nd biggest contributer to EEC / EC funds - out of which we have done rather well over 4 decades, do'nt you agree.
Fine, tell them to keep their last 7 billion, but when Cowen was writing the cheques last November for social welfare, public service etc he need that money...
Will be interesting to see what happens when the current shedload of IMF / EC / UK money runs out...

And the reason we needed that money was because we took on the problems of our banks, the UK, German, Scandanavian etc banks. We're were doing fine on the markets until then!

rebel without a clue

im a republican but i dont support sinn fein. they are a protest party. they protest against everything. what they were promising in the election was hilarious, sure they were only saying those things because they knew nobody would go into government with them and therefore their proposals wouldnt be enforced.