All Queen visit related discussion goes here.

NSNO

Dionysus wrote: »

My oh my this is undereducated ahistorical nonsense if ever there were such a thing. Not a single professional historian of twentieth-century Ireland would support this wishful thinking. For your "treated us [sic] as equals" myth, you can start with the Boundary Commission report in 1925. I doubt, however, that you've ever heard of it.

Would that be the same Boundary Commission with three members? One from the Free State, one from the North and one from Britain? The same Boundary Commission report that the British government shelved upon request from the Irish government?

Funnily enough, I have heard of it.

Soby

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcPnx_PZZiw

ragg

PeterIanStaker wrote: »

And as for Bertie he shouldn't have been invited if the theme of the visit is breaking away from the "past"

Bertie was the architect of the peace process the man has his faults, no doubt, but dont diminish his actual achievments. If you want to attack someone, attack Martin McGuinness and Gerry Adams for not attending tonight!!!

AudreyHepburn

DDC1990 wrote: »

Rounded Up Like Animals: Check
Shot: Check
Starved: Check
Tortured: Check

Are you out of your f**ing mind, not to compare the two is downright disrespectful to what happened to the catholics in Northern Ireland.

No-one would argue the Troubles were horrific and inhumane things were done on BOTH sides.

But to compare that to the Holocaust, the systematic mass murder by a government of its people is just ridiculous!

lastlaugh

All this stuff about the British 'throwing their books open' and finding out the 'truth' malarkey, I mean, c'mon.

It's this kind of propaganda that keeps people stuck in the past and fuels the type of retard that we have seen out 'protesting'.

I know people have lost loved ones etc, but now is the time more than ever to let the past stay in the past.

Sir Oxman

hamlet1 wrote: »

agree with you entirely.Sinn Fein and their ilk are looking very pettish by refusing to be in her presence.president mcaleese is playing a blinder!all in all am very proud to be irish these days

I have to disagree.
SF have every right to dissent from the accepted political view of the visit.

Tipsy McSwagger

Who's taking the horse to France?

wingnut32

DDC1990 wrote: »

Rounded Up Like Animals: Check
Shot: Check
Starved: Check
Tortured: Check

Are you out of your f**ing mind, not to compare the two is downright disrespectful to what happened to the catholics in Northern Ireland.

Im amazed..simply amazed. What happened in the north is not a patch on what happened to the Jews in WW2. You my friend need a reality check.

AudreyHepburn

gambiaman wrote: »

I have to disagree.
SF have every right to dissent from the accepted political view of the visit.

Of course they have the right to. That does not mean it is the right thing to do or that makes them more patriotic or whatever.

If anything it makes them look just the opposite.

Sir Oxman

ragg wrote: »

Bertie was the architect of the peace process the man has his faults, no doubt, but dont diminish his actual achievments. If you want to attack someone, attack Martin McGuinness and Gerry Adams for not attending tonight!!!

And those two were not instrumental in where we are now, how?:rolleyes:

ragg

gambiaman wrote: »

I have to disagree.
SF have every right to dissent from the accepted political view of the visit.

explain you point of view in detail using relevant examples please.

foxinsox

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

I think an amnesty should be granted so people wont be afraid to come forward.(as it stands they would only get 2 years anyway). The IRA, SF, republicans, The Irish Govt, The British govt, the northern assembly etc should all work together so the truth can be established, so the truth wont be buried any more.

The bloody sunday families didnt want people jailed, they wanted an acknowledgement. Other families on all sides deserve the same. We need to do this NOW before its too late.

Thanks for answering..

But in my opinion that would only make old hatreds fresh and the vicious circle of revenge starts again..

I would hope to see in my lifetime, peoples' ability to move forward.

I'm not saying for one minute, forget the past.

But dwelling on it and wanting to find out who did what and why, would not be beneficial to either side in my opinion.

Some truths might be better well buried, that applies to all sides.
I think there has been enough hurt already, for far too many people.

Just my 2c ..

Sir Oxman

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Of course they have the right to. That does not mean it is the right thing to do or that makes them more patriotic or whatever.

If anything it makes them look just the opposite.

In their view it is the right thing to do, though.
IMO, it doesn't make them more patriotic - I can see why they hold that view however.

AudreyHepburn

gambiaman wrote: »

And those two were not instrumental in where we are now, how?:rolleyes:

I hope you aren't trying to credit Adams and McGuiness for achieving peace in the North and bringing the country to a place where Her Majesty is welcomed with smiles and cheers?

Adams wouldn't even refer to her respectfully till recently.

PeterIanStaker

gambiaman wrote: »

And those two were
not instrumental in where we are now, how?:rolleyes:

Bertie was definitely instrumental in how the country is now, i.e. fucked.

Wheelie King

tayto lover wrote: »

That was on another thread and got the reaction it deserved. More sensationalist nonsense by another fool.

Amazing you can't discuss the facts and resort to calling me a fool. Carry on.

ragg

gambiaman wrote: »

And those two were not instrumental in where we are now, how?:rolleyes:

They absolutely are, where did i say they weren't? In fact, i think my post would suggest that they were? In fact, did you even read my post, or did you just see the 2 names Martin and Gerry and decide to quote it and write a furious reply?

Tar.Aldarion

Good speeches. Much more pleased than I thought I would be about any such visit!

DDC1990

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

No-one would argue the Troubles were horrific and inhumane things were done on BOTH sides.

But to compare that to the Holocaust, the systematic mass murder by a government of its people is just ridiculous!

I aknowledge that it wasn't a systematic mass murder, but the Treatment of the Catholics before the "troubles" was comparible to the treatment of the Jews pre-gas chambers. In no way am I suggesting the Catholics would have been Gassed, or Mass Murdered, but to say that they are vastly different situations is, in my opinion, plain wrong.

Wolfe Tone

foxinsox wrote: »

Thanks for answering..

But in my opinion that would only make old hatreds fresh and the vicious circle of revenge starts again..

I would hope to see in my lifetime, peoples' ability to move forward.

I'm not saying for one minute, forget the past.

But dwelling on it and wanting to find out who did what and why, would not be beneficial to either side in my opinion.

Some truths might be better well buried, that applies to all sides.
I think there has been enough hurt already, for far too many people.

Just my 2c ..

So the bloody Sunday families were wrong to campaign for decades for the truth and should have accepted that those killed where not innocent?

The truth is the truth, it should be aired and not hidden for conveniences sake. It would be healing and would show that everyone is facing up to the past

AudreyHepburn

gambiaman wrote: »

In their view it is the right thing to do, though.
IMO, it doesn't make them more patriotic - I can see why they hold that view however.

And their views are worth much? This is a party with links to the IRA.

Sir Oxman

ragg wrote: »

explain you point of view in detail using relevant examples please.

Eh?
SF have every right to hold the view about this visit that they hold.
You have your right to hold your view as I do mine.

What do you want? One huge, idiot mindmelt and groupthink to pervade the land?

ISDW

Lah lah lah lah lah

I'm still feeling the love. Talk about peace and reconciliation, over the last couple of days in these threads I have thanked and been thanked by people that I never thought I would ever agree with.:D Still waiting for one though, but then theres always someone who wants to live in the past:P

Bosco boy

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

No they havent. If they had have Britain would throw open its files and not insist on hiding the truth.

Maybe they could open some files in return for the provos pointing out a few unmarked graves!

UglyBolloxFace

Hold on a second...where's KeithAFC the past few days? And he disappears just as the British Queen arrives?







KEITHAFC IS THE QUEEN!:eek:

Wolfe Tone

Bosco boy wrote: »

Maybe they could open some files in return for the provos pointing out a few unmarked graves!

Yes, thats the aim, disclose everything from all sides

ragg

gambiaman wrote: »

Eh?

What do you want? One huge, idiot mindmelt and groupthink to pervade the land?

pretty much, as long is it has nothing to do with mongs protesting against The British monarchy while wearing british football jerseys

MagicMarker

Nice touch by the Queen, speaking in Irish.

BunShopVoyeur

DDC1990 wrote: »

Rounded Up Like Animals: Check
Shot: Check
Starved: Check
Tortured: Check

Are you out of your f**ing mind, not to compare the two is downright disrespectful to what happened to the catholics in Northern Ireland.

Good man yourself, the stupidest thing I've read all day.

NSNO

Some in this thread could have done with listening to the Queen today,

"We must bow to the past but not be bound by it" - Queen Elizabeth II