Sinn Fein absence from royal events (mod warning: stay on topic!)

Happyman42

irishh_bob wrote: »

those in the border counties had great fun , between smuggling cattle , diesel and drawing dole and farm subsidies on either side , the border was incredibly lucrative

:D Ah, I can still feel the melting butter running down my legs!

Nodin

Liam Byrne wrote: »

And the fact that we voted (.......) the two countries.

Is this about SF being absent from royal events, or a rerun of 'Bash the Shinners' part CMXCIX

Liam Byrne

Nodin wrote: »

Is this about SF being absent from royal events, or a rerun of 'Bash the Shinners' part CMXCIX

Well they're inextricably linked, although the word "bash" is overused and inappropriate.

If SF choose not to participate in events that the majority of the country accepts, then they will be bashedcriticised for it, and obviously don't represent the people who are glad to move on.

They can choose - that's their right. But like a party that - for example - sets out its stall in relation to civil partnership or abortion or divorce at odds with the majority of the population, they won't find their popularity increasing as a result.

Dyr

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Precisely! We don't vote for hypocrites!

"We" being who precisely here?

Happyman42

I've been thinking about the ramifications of this visit a lot and I reckon that in one way Sinn Fein are delighted at the reaction to their absence.
Because out of the closet have come all those people who like Paisley and his ilk, would rather proscribe and ignore than engage.

The potential capital Sinn Fein will make by saying 'we told you that this mindset drives the powers that be in the Republic' may be sizeable.

Adams is no slouch when it comes to making political capital, his manipulation of the Ballymurphy sniper incident way back in 1971 to 'radicalise the middle class' is evidence of that and it's one of the reasons that he is one of the longest serving party leaders in the world. I think the decision to be 'absent' may very well be more of that manipulation.

QE2 and her band will leave soon but what will be left behind? How much will have changed? Wouldn't it be ironic if Sinn Fein where the only ones to make political capital as the dividend for government party will be short lived because of our economic situation.

Liam Byrne

Bambi wrote: »

"We" being who precisely here?

Those of us who haven't voted for hypocrites. :rolleyes:

As you might notice from my signature, I don't use the word "we" to include additional people or some collective bull like FF's "we all spent too much".......

"We" is simply a word that means "I and others", as in "we were out the other night playing pool"

So I'm using it correctly, despite your attempt to imply that I mean more by it; it's the other version of it that's objectionable and incorrect.

Nodin

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Well they're inextricably linked, although the word "bash" is overused and inappropriate.

If SF choose not to participate in events that the majority of the country accepts, then they will be bashedcriticised for it, and obviously don't represent the people who are glad to move on.

They can choose - that's their right. But like a party that - for example - sets out its stall in relation to civil partnership or abortion or divorce at odds with the majority of the population, they won't find their popularity increasing as a result.

...but most of your diatribes don't seem to be too concerned with the Queens events, but a re-run of oft outed themes, Liam.

Liam Byrne

Nodin wrote: »

...but most of your diatribes don't seem to be too concerned with the Queens events, but a re-run of oft outed themes, Liam.

Simply because the "objections" to the Queens events are repeatedly ignoring the progress that the rest of the country has made in moving on, and therefore I'm merely exposing the hypocrisy of those supporting those and simultaneously requesting that we "move on".

If they move on then I will. Simples.

Nodin

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Simply because the "objections" to the Queens events are repeatedly ignoring the progress that the rest of the country has made in moving on, and therefore I'm merely exposing the hypocrisy of those supporting those and simultaneously requesting that we "move on".

If they move on then I will. Simples.

No Liam, you're digging up issues relating to the release of prisoners to the PIRA campaign because SF haven't dropped a part of their policy you don't agree with.

And no, you won't "move on".

sceptre

On-topic and useful contributions only folks please, or don't bother.

Wolfe Tone

Liams not a fan of SF then? I never would have guessed.

Besides...
It has emerged that the Sinn Féin Mayor of Cashel, Cllr Michael Brown, shook Queen Elizabeth II’s hand during her visit to the town today.

The pair also enjoyed a brief conversation as the British monarch and her husband, Prince Phillip, toured the Rock of Cashel landmark.

The royals will be visiting Cork city this afternoon, where hundreds of well-wishers have already gathered to greet them.

Cllr Michael Brown was elected to Cashel Town Council in 1985. He lost it in 1999, before regaining it in 2004.

Read more: http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/sinn-fein-mayor-shakes-queens-hand-on-cashel-visit-505779.html#ixzz1Mu6umbbb

No1J

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Liams not a fan of SF then? I never would have guessed.

Besides...
It has emerged that the Sinn Féin Mayor of Cashel, Cllr Michael Brown, shook Queen Elizabeth II’s hand during her visit to the town today.

The pair also enjoyed a brief conversation as the British monarch and her husband, Prince Phillip, toured the Rock of Cashel landmark.

The royals will be visiting Cork city this afternoon, where hundreds of well-wishers have already gathered to greet them.

Cllr Michael Brown was elected to Cashel Town Council in 1985. He lost it in 1999, before regaining it in 2004.

Well done Michael, good to see that there are people who may have different beliefs to others but are strong enough to put them to one side for the greater good of the Country. I understand the SF stance but feel it was an opportunity missed, if Martin and Ian could sit down together could Gerry not have offered the hand, "premature" poor excuse.

Liam Byrne

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Liams not a fan of SF then? I never would have guessed.

Besides...
It has emerged that the Sinn Féin Mayor of Cashel, Cllr Michael Brown, shook Queen Elizabeth II’s hand during her visit to the town today.

The pair also enjoyed a brief conversation as the British monarch and her husband, Prince Phillip, toured the Rock of Cashel landmark.

The royals will be visiting Cork city this afternoon, where hundreds of well-wishers have already gathered to greet them.

Cllr Michael Brown was elected to Cashel Town Council in 1985. He lost it in 1999, before regaining it in 2004.

Read more: http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/sinn-fein-mayor-shakes-queens-hand-on-cashel-visit-505779.html#ixzz1Mu6umbbb

If they do some more stuff like that, then (while I couldn't see myself becoming a fan) I'd at least start to have an ounce of respect for them.

Credit where credit is due! Fair play Michael!

Wolfe Tone

fergpie wrote: »

Its good to see that at least one sinn fein politician could have the courage to shake the hand of the queen instead of adopting the same run of the mill party stance adopted by mary lou, o'snodaigh, etc in the media recently.

SFs leadership have displayed just as much courage in staying away from events while the whole country fawns.

mike65

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

SFs leadership have displayed just as much courage in staying away from events while the whole country fawns.

Fawns? Give it a rest will ya! People were excited/curious/interested/ambivalent/uninterested/quietly hostile (thats you)/violently hostile. I'd say most fell into categories curious/interested/ambivalent/uninterested.

Wolfe Tone

mike65 wrote: »

Fawns? Give it a rest will ya! People were excited/curious/interested/ambivalent/uninterested/quietly hostile (thats you)/violently hostile. I'd say most fell into categories curious/interested/ambivalent/uninterested.

To categorize that man as "courageous" and imply that SF were in some way cowardly for staying away is disingenuous and does not reflect the fact that SF, as a party, took a principled stand. That is not cowardly.

jmc19

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

SFs leadership have displayed just as much courage in staying away from events while the whole country fawns.

Nothing courageous about it in my opinion :mad: I voted SF in the recent election and I won't be voting for them again after this stunt.It was a great opportunity missed.

SF say they are for peace and the moving forward for peace in Northern Ireland and a historic event as this they are not present, didn't even turn up in Dail Eireann to meet her. Instead they have protested and have members of their own party (one's that weren't even born during the start of the troubles) posting up anti British comments on their Facebook/Blog pages, "we want the Queen for war crimes" etc..., will members of the IRA be held for war crimes too :rolleyes:

It's clear to me that SF will never move on, I get the whole history thing and we should never forget our past and how far we have come but at the same time we need to move on, show some maturity and look ahead to forgive and forget and build a better Ireland for us all and our children.

Wolfe Tone

Could have sworn the whole GFA thing in which SF and Gerry Adams were instrumental in putting together was kinda moving forward no?

Iwasfrozen

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

To categorize that man as "courageous" and imply that SF were in some way cowardly for staying away is disingenuous and does not reflect the fact that SF, as a party, took a principled stand. That is not cowardly.

Not cowardly but wrong. Sinn Fein represent the old Ireland, opposed to the new one that people like the Queen and Mary Mac are trying to create.

The Waltzing Consumer

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

SFs leadership have displayed just as much courage in staying away from events while the whole country fawns.

Lol, for a party who "talked" a lot about staying away from events, it was amazing to see Gerry every time I saw the Queen.

"I will not meet the Queen or attend events, but I will be in close proximity and be constantly giving my opinion to the media"

Absolute nonsense from the SF leadership. If the were gonna stay away from the events, they would have STAYED away. They did not, they were falling over themselves near the Queens events just to give interviews and get publicity.

The Waltzing Consumer

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

To categorize that man as "courageous" and imply that SF were in some way cowardly for staying away is disingenuous and does not reflect the fact that SF, as a party, took a principled stand. That is not cowardly.

Principled my ass! They would have stayed away, kept their mouths shut and not been in the press if it was principles. They were constantly giving interviews, often in close proximity to events held for the British Queen and looking for as much attention as possible. They were cowardly and very sneaky.

That man was not courageous, he just seems normal and is not some nut or extremist. Wow, a handshake, wow indeed. I am sure the KKK get really shocked if a member shakes a black man's hand too. Move on lads, you look ridiculous.

Waestrel

Sinn Fein have likely lost a great deal of credibility this week. The response for the visit was overwhelmingly positive and by not being part of it the have consigned themselves to the political cold. Their loss of credibility probably coincides with the beginning of the end of 32 county republicanism as a legitimate or mainstream political stance in this land.

KeithAFC

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

Lol, for a party who "talked" a lot about staying away from events, it was amazing to see Gerry every time I saw the Queen.

"I will not meet the Queen or attend events, but I will be in close proximity and be constantly giving my opinion to the media"

Absolute nonsense from the SF leadership. If the were gonna stay away from the events, they would have STAYED away. They did not, they were falling over themselves near the Queens events just to give interviews and get publicity.

I noticed that. Typical SF tactics. Same with the IRA murals they open. SF studied that people are more open to them without balaclavas on and thus, made sure future murals are painted without balaclavas.

Happyman42

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

Lol, for a party who "talked" a lot about staying away from events, it was amazing to see Gerry every time I saw the Queen.

"I will not meet the Queen or attend events, but I will be in close proximity and be constantly giving my opinion to the media"

Absolute nonsense from the SF leadership. If the were gonna stay away from the events, they would have STAYED away. They did not, they were falling over themselves near the Queens events just to give interviews and get publicity.

Could you provide details of that? Because if you are suggesting they weren't really absent I would like to know.

The only time I saw Gerry Adams interviewed was on a day that the Dail was sitting. Quite natural that he would be to hand for a statement.
And they were holding their own demonstrations in the city too.
But you say there were more occasions when they were in 'close proximity'....so could you provide details please? Keith will help you look because he 'noticed' that as well.

Happyman42

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

Principled my ass! They would have stayed away, kept their mouths shut and not been in the press if it was principles. They were constantly giving interviews, often in close proximity to events held for the British Queen and looking for as much attention as possible. They were cowardly and very sneaky.

That man was not courageous, he just seems normal and is not some nut or extremist. Wow, a handshake, wow indeed. I am sure the KKK get really shocked if a member shakes a black man's hand too. Move on lads, you look ridiculous.

You really don't get what it means 'to object' do you? Why in God's name would they be silent?
Maybe you wanted them to be quiet to save your blushes?
A psychologist would tell you that the desire to hide stuff generally means that you are either ashamed or embarrassed by it.
Thats what we did all week, we invented an Ireland that really doesn't exist. Because less than an hour after she has left, we still have the same problems here, nothing has changed and so much could have, if it hadn't been such a gushing love-in.
I heard they had that guy Franc (Weddings By Franc) in The English Market making the place 'unrecognisable' (Ray McAnally's words on RTE)WTF was the point of that...I mean give the place a lick of paint and tidy it up...but make it 'unrecognisable?'
To me that's indicative of what we did this week. Hid everything bad away 'for shame' and invented a country at peace!

The Royal Visit To Ireland By Franc

The Waltzing Consumer

Happyman42 wrote: »

Could you provide details of that? Because if you are suggesting they weren't really absent I would like to know.

The only time I saw Gerry Adams interviewed was on a day that the Dail was sitting. Quite natural that he would be to hand for a statement.
And they were holding there own demonstrations in the city too.
But you say there were more occasions when they were in 'close proximity'....so could you provide details please? Keith will help you look because he 'noticed' that as well.

Look for yourself. Anytime I was watching news about the Queen's visit, SF always were on hand to give their two cents. Other parties like the Socialist Party and SWP were not too fond of the visit either but at least they were not jumping for attention the whole time, they practiced their principles.

What SF was doing was pure media games and classic sitting on the fence SF. All talk of not attending the events but amazingily never far away, holding their own demonstrations and never shy of getting and giving interviews. Bad week for SF, they just look foolish and they obviously grossly misjudged the mood of the country. Who knew people had moved on and were a bit more mature then they hoped?

Liam Byrne

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Could have sworn the whole GFA thing in which SF and Gerry Adams were instrumental in putting together was kinda moving forward no?

Which would be sufficient if we only "kinda" wanted peace and normality. :rolleyes:

The Waltzing Consumer

Happyman42 wrote: »

You really don't get what it means 'to object' do you? Why in God's name would they be silent?
Maybe you wanted them to be quiet to save your blushes?
A psychologist would tell you that the desire to hide stuff generally means that you are either ashamed or embarrassed by it.
Thats what we did all week, we invented an Ireland that really doesn't exist. Because less than an hour after she has left, we still have the same problems here, nothing has changed and so much could have, if it hadn't been such a gushing love-in.
I heard they had that guy Franc (Weddings By Franc) in The English Market making the place 'unrecognisable' (Ray McAnally's words on RTE)WTF was the point of that...I mean give the place a lick of paint and tidy it up...but make it 'unrecognisable?'
To me that's indicative of what we did this week. Hid everything bad away 'for shame' and invented a country at peace!

The Royal Visit To Ireland By Franc

:rolleyes: You just sound bitter. It is also pretty normal for cities and countries to spend money when significant guests are visiting. It is often one of the only times that places, who could wait for years for refurbishing, get a makeover. Stop with the bitterness. So SF judged the whole mood of the country wrong and they looked like bitter people, big deal, it's nice to have our own version of the Phelps family. Move on lads. You want people to stay in their holes and you just sound like you want to drag people back into them. Just weird.

Listen, the country did very well, it showed a maturity and an equality between the heads of states. It is great that so many people have matured and are welcoming.

Wildlife Actor

I think the SF leadership were in a very difficult position and, taking that into consideration, they didn't do too badly. Yes they missed an opportunity that I believe the more sensible element in the party probably wanted them to take.

But we all know that there is a very ugly side to their party and their supporters that they must keep on side. If they took the plunge this week, the ugly side would have called them sell-outs and you'd have "Real Sinn Fein." In that case Gerry and Co would have then been redundant, falling between the thugs and the progressive republicans. By holding the mandate of the thugs at times like this they are keeping some semblance of influence over them.

In that context, SF could have taken a more aggressive line and didn't. The protests were miniscule, and the leadership didn't make total fools out of themselves.

Gerry even began to make some sensible comments in the days before the visit until the muppets in the Examiner headlined that "Gerry Adamshas all but welcomed the visit of Britain's Queen Elizabeth" and forced him retreat into his shell in order to keep the yobs on side.

Happyman42

Love nor Money wrote: »

I think the SF leadership were in a very difficult position and, taking that into consideration, they didn't do too badly. Yes they missed an opportunity that I believe the more sensible element in the party probably wanted them to take.

But we all know that there is a very ugly side to their party and their supporters that they must keep on side. If they took the plunge this week, the ugly side would have called them sell-outs and you'd have "Real Sinn Fein." In that case Gerry and Co would have then been redundant, falling between the thugs and the progressive republicans. By holding the mandate of the thugs at times like this they are keeping some semblance of influence over them.

In that context, SF could have taken a more aggressive line and didn't. The protests were miniscule, and the leadership didn't make total fools out of themselves.

Gerry even began to make some sensible comments in the days before the visit until the muppets in the Examiner headlined that "Gerry Adamshas all but welcomed the visit of Britain's Queen Elizabeth" and forced him retreat into his shell in order to keep the yobs on side.

I'd agree with some of that.
I don't think a lot of people in the South realise just how delicate the peace is in some areas.
There is a lot less explosives and arms about but some areas are still a tinderbox and it wouldn't take much to ignite them. There is a head in the sand mentality about that in the south but that is nothing new.
People are also codding themselves about the protests at the visit....there was an unprecedented lock down in place, even extending to my town, where the Special Branch were once again to be seen watching and keeping tabs.(not seen in many years) You were never going to get the numbers on the streets to cause serious trouble.
Accepting all that I think Sinn Fein came up with a strategy of absence that may very well reap dividends for them.
FG/Lab haven't a hope of gaining electorally from it as the economic situation is only going to get even worse.
There was a frenzy of public adoration like the frenzy when Diana died, it's very hard to swim against a tsunami like that, SF did alright, I really can't see their core support affected in any way.

It will be good when the dust settles and we get the analysis.

Happyman42

Happyman42 wrote: »

FG/Lab haven't a hope of gaining electorally from it as the economic situation is only going to get even worse.
There was a frenzy of public adoration like the frenzy when Diana died, it's very hard to swim against a tsunami like that, SF did alright, I really can't see their core support affected in any way.

It will be good when the dust settles and we get the analysis.

Actually I don't think they tried to swim ,they adapted.
On night one,they were everywhere saying how the visit was ill judged.
As it became obvious that She was going down a lot better than they thought she would,they adopted a new strategy.
Basically the new startegy was whatever you do say nothing when you talk about you know what

This has been a difficult visit for Republicans because one more of the few remaining bowls came down this past 4 days.
There were thousands out in Cork despite the security actually cheering.
To be honest,as an irishman,given our history,that kind of welcome makes me proud

murphaph

Happyman42 wrote: »

There was a frenzy of public adoration like the frenzy when Diana died

People like the queen and many like the royal family. We stayed in a B&B in Kerry last week (not exactly known as being full of "west brits" etc.) and the IRISH woman (with a "proper" Irish surname and all!) had a picture of the newly married royal couple on her mantelpiece.

I'd say it was a shock to the system to a lot of shinners that the royal family are actually quite interesting to many Irish people. I know my mother was delighted to catch a wave from her in Kilcullen yesterday morning.

SF maintain a veil of decency, but it is just that, a veil. They would, if they could, forcibly eject anybody and anything not conforming to their "ideas" of how Ireland should look.

Happyman42

Deleted User wrote: »

Actually I don't think they tried to swim ,they adapted.
On night one,they were everywhere saying how the visit was ill judged.
As it became obvious that She was going down a lot better than they thought she would,they adopted a new strategy.
Basically the new startegy was whatever you do say nothing when you talk about you know what

This has been a difficult visit for Republicans because one more of the few remaining bowls came down this past 4 days.
There were thousands out in Cork despite the security actually cheering.
To be honest,as an irishman,given our history,that kind of welcome makes me proud

I feel like SF 's spokesman here!
I wouldn't be surprised if the opportunity to talk on RTE was taken away from them tbh. Because RTE were a disgrace during this visit. I didn't hear one objective piece for 4 days...so much so that I tuned to BBC Radio 4 and I heard Gerry speak today. I don't think it's unfair to say they have been hiding.
Here is a transcript of what he said which isn't any less than he has been saying all along.


The meeting followed comments by Sinn Fein President Gerry Adams who said the Queen has left Irish people disappointed for not apologising for Britain's involvement in Irish affairs.
The leader of the Irish republican party said people across the country felt she had not gone far enough in expressing sympathy for the way a century of bloodshed between Ireland and Britain had touched their lives.
Speaking on Radio 4's Today programme, he said: 'Many people I have spoken too, particularly from the north, have expressed a disappointment that she did not apologise in a more direct and clear way for British involvement in Irish affairs.
'I had never expected that.'

He said that relations between the two states would not be 'normalised to the fullest extent while Ireland remains partitioned'.




http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1389028/Queens-visit-Ireland-Gerry-Adams-says-left-Irish-people-disappointed.html?ITO=1490

Wildlife Actor

I don't think anyone who wanted to protest was restrained, were they? The post-visit opinion polls will be interesting.

I don't think FG or Labour will gain or lose electorally, but that's not what it was ever about for them and it was never going to be a 'political' event for them. SF on the other hand were being 'political' about it, but that's understandable given the position they were in: they had most to lose and little to gain no matter what they did. They won't lose votes because of the way they went about it but the opportunity to progress their principles was lost (or, more correctly, the opportunity to progress their principles could have come at a big political cost for themselves and for the country by marginalising those that aren't prepared to move on yet).

cosanostra

Its good to see that we have some Politicians that stick to there beliefs i would be very annoyed if Sinn Fein did attend one of the lavish functions that i believe were over the top and just an insult to the people who are suffering at the hands of the elite.

I also think if Gerry Adams had met the Queen overnight there would have been an upsurge in support for the disidents, we have lasting peace on this island and on a road to a united Ireland so there was no reason for Sinn Fein to meet the Queen of England it would serve no purpose whatsoever!

conscious

It would be contradictory for them to show up, same goes for anyone who is anti-monarchy and is against the social inequality it represents! Apparently our government loves the idea of social inequality

Wildlife Actor

cosanostra wrote: »

Its good to see that we have some Politicians that stick to there beliefs i would be very annoyed if Sinn Fein did attend one of the lavish functions that i believe were over the top and just an insult to the people who are suffering at the hands of the elite.

I also think if Gerry Adams had met the Queen overnight there would have been an upsurge in support for the disidents, we have lasting peace on this island and on a road to a united Ireland so there was no reason for Sinn Fein to meet the Queen of England it would serve no purpose whatsoever!

The Garden of Remembrance event was not a "lavish function" and it would have been entirely appropriate for SF to be there to demonstrate that they recognise the reality that Britain is a state that they must deal with and unionists are a people they must live with peacefully, whether NI is a Uk province or an Irish one. Until they do that, they're not coming to the table and how can they persuade those who are at the table when they are shouting from the next room? Saying that the Queen should stay away until Ireland is united is counterproductive to that very aim.

But Gerry had to beat that drum and stay away because if he didn't he'd have been wrongly accused of going to lavish functions and dissidents would wrongly splinter.

jmc19

Just seen this posted up on Mary Lou McDonalds facebook page:

Dublin city is moving again - what a relief!!!!

Very mature :rolleyes:

As I said in a previous post here, SF not showing up to meet her was a greatly missed opportunity considering they want to work towards peace and a better Ireland.

sceptre

There was an earlier moderator request/instruction to stay on topic. Unfortunately some people presumably thought they were exempt from this request. A chunk of posts have been deleted in the past page or two from people who decided that the warning wasn't for them at all and chose to go off on one.

Those requests aren't made for fun folks - please heed them. A tiny few of you are making it a habit - this has been noted and for continued access to the forum, kindly curb this practice which at this point you tiny few are doing either deliberately or recklessly. Either way you're making a mess for everyone else who actually wants to talk about the particular topics and if your access needs to be temporarily removed to facilitate this, it will be. Please take careful note.

jakdelad

Clareboy wrote: »

I have great respect for Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness, but I was dissapointed to see that Sinn Fein were not represented at any of the events to do with the visit of Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II and HRH The Duke of Edinburgh to Ireland. Sinn Fein can sit down with Unionists in the North and do business with them and still they cannot meet Her Majesty and forget the past. What is their problem?

same ould bullsh1t from sinn fein
they would give you the scutter
adams should have been in the garden of remberance

they sinn fein are only half hearted.
must really piss them off to see the real welcome the queen got

cosanostra

Sinn Fein Mayor of Cashel met and shook hands with the Queen of England

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/republic-of-ireland/sinn-fein-mayor-shakes-queens-hand-16002368.html

bmaxi

conscious wrote: »

It would be contradictory for them to show up, same goes for anyone who is anti-monarchy and is against the social inequality it represents! Apparently our government loves the idea of social inequality

That's not the point. The British Monarchy is not the sole representative of Social inequality on the planet, to follow that logic, SF representatives would not meet any head of state.
As far as I could see a lot of effort was put into healing old wounds and, as was seen in Cork, to allowing the Queen to interact with the plain people. If SF are genuinely interested in the healing process, they should really have supported this.
I know people will say that they have to look to their constituency but then you have to ask, what sort of Ireland does their constituency want in the future?

Pineapple stu

cosanostra wrote: »

Sinn Fein Mayor of Cashel met and shook hands with the Queen of England

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/republic-of-ireland/sinn-fein-mayor-shakes-queens-hand-16002368.html

That was good to hear .

Happyman42

bmaxi wrote: »

That's not the point. The British Monarchy is not the sole representative of Social inequality on the planet, to follow that logic, SF representatives would not meet any head of state.
As far as I could see a lot of effort was put into healing old wounds and, as was seen in Cork, to allowing the Queen to interact with the plain people. If SF are genuinely interested in the healing process, they should really have supported this.
I know people will say that they have to look to their constituency but then you have to ask, what sort of Ireland does their constituency want in the future?

Rather than having a go at SF who (HONESTLY and unequivocally) stated their reasons for Absence, shouldn't proud Irish people be asking why the Queen and the British state could not have gone that bit further and unequivocally said that they were 'sorry, for the wrongdoings of Crown Forces and Government agencies'? I don't understand why people here want to let them of the hook, do you think that they did nothing wrong?:eek:
What is the problem with SORRY in a 'new relationship'?
She was very careful to nuance her speech to keep the Unionists on side, why couldn't she have done the same for those who NEEDED TO HEAR IT MOST? What was there to lose?
It's just a sad missed opportunity and it's the British getting it wrong again, they where consistently the best recruiters for the IRA all through the troubles, Hunger strikes, Bloody Sunday etc etc. No substantive change then.

CelticRambler

Happyman42 wrote: »

What is the problem with SORRY in a 'new relationship'?
She was very careful to nuance her speech to keep the Unionists on side, why couldn't she have done the same for those who NEEDED TO HEAR IT MOST? What was there to lose?

Because "Sorry" doesn't mean a damn thing when the person saying it had nothing to do with what happened - it's just a twenty-first century political fad. I stabbed fellow in the hand with a pencil when I was in second class - what difference would it make if I met him now and said sorry? In a mature, mutually respectful relationship of any sort, you draw a line, you say "there was some seriously bad stuff going on back then, but let's leave it back there, OK?" and you make a new future.

Sinn Féin were doing fine since Good Friday up to now, then they messed it up. They - especially Gerry Adams, Martin McGuinness and Pearse Doherty - should have been there at the Garden of Rememberance to show that the timing of this visit was perfect: to stand beside the Queen in that place at this time would have said "Right, missus, thanks for coming but that's all behind us; from now on we're equals." That would have been real leadership, and one in the eye for their critics.

Waestrel

Happyman42 wrote: »

<snip>. No substantive change then.

Really, No change? This is the best thing to happen in decades. Real hope for everyone on this island now. If you cant see that, you will never have reconciliation. Doesn't matter really though, Ireland at large accepted the olive branch, and these are the last days of 32 county republicanism.

KeithAFC

Happyman42 wrote: »

Rather than having a go at SF who (HONESTLY and unequivocally) stated their reasons for Absence, shouldn't proud Irish people be asking why the Queen and the British state could not have gone that bit further and unequivocally said that they were 'sorry, for the wrongdoings of Crown Forces and Government agencies'? I don't understand why people here want to let them of the hook, do you think that they did nothing wrong?:eek:
What is the problem with SORRY in a 'new relationship'?
She was very careful to nuance her speech to keep the Unionists on side, why couldn't she have done the same for those who NEEDED TO HEAR IT MOST? What was there to lose?
It's just a sad missed opportunity and it's the British getting it wrong again, they where consistently the best recruiters for the IRA all through the troubles, Hunger strikes, Bloody Sunday etc etc. No substantive change then.

You can't be serious with that? The Queen and the Irish and British government have played a blinder with this visit. It was perfect really. I thought the speech was all that needed to be said. If people expected the Queen to say sorry for something she most likely wasn't alive for, then they need a reality check.

dixiefly

In my humble opinion Gerry Adams has made teo big errors in the Republic since the election.

1. He muscled into Caoimhin O Caoilin's position as Sinn Fein leader in the Dail and has been a very poor performer there. He would have been far better off getting to know the running of the place before pushing others aside. I used to reasonably like him but his Dail performances leave me underwhelmed.

2. This week he did not read the mood of the people and went the other way. They could have taken a neutral type of position and attended the war memorial and possible Islandbridge and stayed away from Dublin Castle etc but they chose to boycot the visit completely (the bedgrudging hand shaking by a mickety mouse councillor in Cashel doesnt change their position at all).

Personally I am glad that Sinn Fein leadership have shown themselves to be bigots as I suspected that they had risen to their optimum in the election. I would hope that the Greens take back the mantle on the next biggest party after the top 3 at the next election as their policies while not perfect are better for this country in the long run and bring a perspective that is much more valuable than Sinn Fein's.

R P McMurphy

CelticRambler wrote: »

Because "Sorry" doesn't mean a damn thing when the person saying it had nothing to do with what happened - it's just a twenty-first century political fad. I stabbed fellow in the hand with a pencil when I was in second class - what difference would it make if I met him now and said sorry? In a mature, mutually respectful relationship of any sort, you draw a line, you say "there was some seriously bad stuff going on back then, but let's leave it back there, OK?" and you make a new future.

Sinn Féin were doing fine since Good Friday up to now, then they messed it up. They - especially Gerry Adams, Martin McGuinness and Pearse Doherty - should have been there at the Garden of Rememberance to show that the timing of this visit was perfect: to stand beside the Queen in that place at this time would have said "Right, missus, thanks for coming but that's all behind us; from now on we're equals." That would have been real leadership, and one in the eye for their critics.

What is all of this 'now we are equals' business I keep hearing about. Patronising rubbish

celtictiger32

jmc19 wrote: »

Just seen this posted up on Mary Lou McDonalds facebook page:



Very mature :rolleyes:

As I said in a previous post here, SF not showing up to meet her was a greatly missed opportunity considering they want to work towards peace and a better Ireland.

why do you find someone saying the city is moving again immature? regardless of who it comes from. id bet that most of the posters on here who have a grievance with SF not being at the english queens reception would be the first to say 'the neck of them' if they did turn up.